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RE: When is it WRONG to do the RIGHT thing - 5/4/2009 5:09:13 AM

LadyPact

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It's very difficult to give an answer, because the question itself is so ambiguous. I'm afraid I'm going to have to go with, when doing the right thing does more harm than good.

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RE: When is it WRONG to do the RIGHT thing - 5/4/2009 5:13:18 AM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chamberqueen

Would it make a Master happier to follow the letter of the law they have laid down or its spirit? There are times that you don't have the time to ask and need to make a quick decision. Sometimes a task might go against your moral code to some extent and then what do you do? What may seem "right" to a Master might seem slightly "wrong" to you so whichever alternative you choose can feel wrong somehow. Then it becomes a matter for your conscience.

Well, I don't think the above is a matter of right and wrong; I think it's a pragmatic decision from a range of options, all of which come complete with risks and rewards. It's a case of best fit for that person. 'Right' suggests there is no possible drawback with that decision; 'wrong' suggests there is no possible benefit to that decision: this is quite clearly incorrect. In the example given, if you follow the letter of the law you maintain consistency but lose flexibility, and vice versa: neither are 'right'.

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RE: When is it WRONG to do the RIGHT thing - 5/4/2009 5:34:46 AM

oceanwinds

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I am just going to use your example be it real or not. If an adult child is not taking responsibility for them self then what is the right thing to do? In your example, it seems the parent(s), have looked at everything black and white and many shoulds in the progress of life. There are many other shades of gray here that can be adapted. To find them, one needs to step out of the wrong and right thinking and seek solutions. Let's say child is an adult and is having money problems. Child might not be working because of several reasons; economy, lack of ambition, depression, my parents own me, i know that in tough times i can count on parent (s). Fear stressed is if I keep bailing them out then they will never grow -up. If you stop feeding them, then you worry yourself, do they eat..ect?
It's a vicious cycle. How about, 'yes sure come on over for dinner, I need a day off and you can make it'. Even hot dogs and beans is a meal. You are giving them the opportunity to share in the giving and receiving.

just my thoughts

< Message edited by oceanwinds -- 5/4/2009 5:36:20 AM >

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Post #: 23

RE: When is it WRONG to do the RIGHT thing - 5/4/2009 1:24:41 PM

Interesdom

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I do not think it is every wrong to do the right thing. Sometimes, it is not very clear what the right thing to do is. Sometimes it is worthwhile to review our concept of right and wrong in light of circumstances we never imagined before.

quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone
i guess i mean to you personally.... is there ever a time when the "right" thing just feels like you are doing the wrong thing?

That is often an indication of a clash between emotional desire and pre-determined ethics.

We often make the mistake of thinking that we (humans) are rational beings. I think we are much more rationalising beings. When we feel strongly about something (notably involving love or hate) then we give ourselves all kinds of backup 'logic' to support how we feel, and that leads us towards certain actions. However, those actions may not match up well to the ethics we hold, whether we came by those from within or from family and society.

The biggest example of this is with cheating on a partner. Surveys indicate that most of us believe that it should not happen. Surveys indicate that about half of us do it anyway - and most of those half know, at the time, that it is right and acceptable for any number of reasons that don't apply to anyone else!

Ultimately, you are going to have to live with yourself. In five years' time, when you look back on what you did, what do you think you will feel most self-respect for doing?

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RE: When is it WRONG to do the RIGHT thing - 5/4/2009 1:49:49 PM

InTonguesslut

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~FR~

I did the right thing recently for some people, but it was totally the wrong thing for me. So i kind of did wrong by doing right !! Was it wrong or right in the long run for any of us, only time will tell.

Edited to add - nothing to do with my present relationships.

< Message edited by InTonguesslut -- 5/4/2009 2:03:57 PM >

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RE: When is it WRONG to do the RIGHT thing - 5/4/2009 1:59:41 PM

lovingpet

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There are some things that just ring true as right or wrong rather naturally. Some things take far more soul searching than others. I am interested in the intent of the person taking the action and how they came to make that decision. If you come to me clearly laden with agendas, biases, and personal baggage, I find your act less than genuine. When you have chosen to lay all that aside and do what you really believe to be best and can tell me why, then I respect it, even if I may not always agree with it. Right can still be right even if it is not viewed that way by others. I have some rather strigent standards for this for myself and I really don't care who agrees or disagrees. I know that my motives are pure and my thinking is crystal clear so far as I am capable. If I have to doubt either of these, I am not yet ready to do anything. I act only when I am ready to give an answer for all the whys for my actions.

Don't know if this answered your question at all.

lovingpet

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Post #: 26

RE: When is it WRONG to do the RIGHT thing - 5/4/2009 2:23:54 PM

SteelofUtah

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We are discussing so many things in this that it is hard for me to make a comment without having to contradict myself with how I feel in a different senario.

case in Point. Giving Money and Food to an adult child. This is fine as long as they are receiving it based on the fact that it was offered and not a matter of Necessity. If the Adult Child had put themselves in a situation where they are forced to ask for food then you have to ask yourself if it is for a different reason. I was a drug addict and the best thing that ever happened to me was when my Mother said I wasn't welcome there anymore. I had NO OTHER OPTIONS so I cleaned up and got over my anger and today I thank my mom for what she did. The reason I always needed money and Food was because I was spending my own on drugs.

The RIGHT thing to do is offten the most dificult thing to do. When it comes to family we are inclied to help because we do not wish to see them suffer, however the best thing to do is usually give them the dignity to fail, to learn that failing requires them to try harder and work harder next time. In this day and age we are not teaching children to have the dignity to fail we teach them not to keep score and that everyone is a winner when in the real world not everyone wins, not everyone gets a trophy. We do not give our children the dignity to fail.

When it is someone who probably NEEDS to hear the truth and you feel inclined to be the one to tell them usually the Right thing is to do NOTHING. Telling the Mother of the child who is screaming and ruining everyone day that she is being a horrible mother for not stopping the child will most likely have no effect other than to make you feel better and that would be a self serving process. Most of the time it is the people who the Mother chooses to enteract with that should be saying these things. By doing the harder thing and moving, letting her know that it is because of her child that you are doing so. This is usually the more Right thing to do because just saying something to her makes you ONE of MANY who are there but by showing the rest of the people that it is okay to get up and move away you give them the dignity to do so for themselves as well and maybe this woman will see herself as a problem and start to do something about it.

Doing the right thing for yourself is offten the hardest thing in the world to do. We find ourselves everday faced with choices that require us to pick one, usually the lesser of two evils and we tend to always go to comfort. So that you know I feel that comfort is the worst place for a person to be. Comfort means you are not bettering yourself. if you are in a state of comfort (No I am not talking about relationships and life in general) while doing something that should be important chances are you are choosing the easiest path and in doing so you are failing to Grow from your actions.

It is Wrong to do the "Right" think when doing the RIGHT thing only serves yourself.

Giving your son a Meal makes you feel better about yourself and teaches the son that he can feed himself on your dollar.

Telling the Woman with tha Annoying child that the child belongs in a cage just makes you feel holier than thou and better than the woman you just chastized

Staying in a Relionship for the kids just makes you feel like you are sacrificing yourself for your children when in reality all you are doing is sentensing them to watch your personal suffering.

What YOU think the right thing to do is is offten just what makes you feel better about the decision YOU have to make.

Steel

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Post #: 27

RE: When is it WRONG to do the RIGHT thing - 5/4/2009 2:57:54 PM

IronBear

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If I can live with myself after I know what I did was right according to my codes. However often in the past what I have done is reprehensible and even in many cases illegal but it was done for the greater good. (Executing some scum bag who was outside the grasp of the law or painfully extracting information which has saved lives). I can live with this just as I can live with passing information about drug deals and usage (hard drugs and not MJ) to law inforcement associates which I see as a civic duty but my public stand has made me unpopuilar with many of the younger members of the local BDSM Community. It is a personal choice. Frankly I will and have pulled the trigger on a piece of human scum with far less compunction that I would on an animal.

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RE: When is it WRONG to do the RIGHT thing - 5/4/2009 3:16:00 PM

breatheasone

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i have read every reply and i honestly can't disagree with any of what has been said. i think what we have all come up with is Yep...it happens. i think its the trade...the balance. And if we pay attention maybe we can discern if what we are doing is right for the us, the moment, and the circumstance. Its the big picture that can get lost maybe if we allow ourselves to get bogged down in semantics. Or am i just full of shit?

Ok, ok ...so i'm KNOW i'm full of shit....but do i still have a point?

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RE: When is it WRONG to do the RIGHT thing - 5/4/2009 3:26:20 PM

breatheasone

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FYI.... this is based on a real situation....
"If you have an adult child who is (for lack of a better term) trouble. They always ask for money, food, etc.... So you stop giving the cash, but still give food regularly. Isn't this enabling the adult kid (lets say 20 something) to be irresponsible because they know they can always have a free meal? There are MANY other scenarios where doing the right thing may be wrong as well. This is just one that comes to mind."

....A little more detail would be this young man (in his early 20's) has been in trouble with the law and jailed...he did or still does, have a heartbreaking addiction to crack cocaine, and has stolen from his family NUMEROUS times, even lifted their checkbook and wrote LOTS of bad checks, these people still can't write a paper checks, no one will accept them.

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RE: When is it WRONG to do the RIGHT thing - 5/4/2009 3:26:23 PM

catize

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I would say it depends on the motivation of the person who believes they are right.
Who benefits if I ‘do the right thing’?
Is it right for most or just for me?
Are there far reaching consequences, and are they positive or negative?

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RE: When is it WRONG to do the RIGHT thing - 5/4/2009 7:48:17 PM

Whiplashsmile4

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The first thing the comes to mind is when you are doing it to simply Prove that you are Right, without regards to anything else save being in the right. Hope this makes sense.

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RE: When is it WRONG to do the RIGHT thing - 5/4/2009 7:54:29 PM

breatheasone

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

The first thing the comes to mind is when you are doing it to simply Prove that you are Right, without regards to anything else save being in the right. Hope this makes sense.

Actually yes it does Whip, (nice to read your posts again btw

) i have often, more often than i care to admit, dug in my heels ONLY because i was "right" i don't like it when i do that...i don't think its very nice or attractive.

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RE: When is it WRONG to do the RIGHT thing - 5/4/2009 8:46:07 PM

Joseff

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To quote a previous responder, by definition, it is never wrong to do what's right. Sometimes its very hard to tell just what is right. sometimes what seems the right thing turns out to be wrong in the long run, and sometimes there just is no right choice, but you find yourself in a situation where you must do something. Developing a solid set of values helps a lot in these cases, then if it follows your values it has a better chance of being the right answer. I also find that having good people that I love and trust to support me helps. Even if they can't really point you to what is right, their support makes the choice easier.

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RE: When is it WRONG to do the RIGHT thing - 5/5/2009 1:49:40 AM

Ialdabaoth

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Here's a different take on what you're asking, that hopefully will make sense:

It's "wrong" to do the "right" thing when others are not being honest about what the "right" thing actually is.

See, there is no objective "right" or "wrong" thing; it's just the fickle whim of the crowd. And the crowd generally ingrains within us certain moral 'rules of thumb' that are supposed to give us some idea about how they're going to judge our actions while we're still contemplating them.

The problem is, there's a bunch more to "ethics" than what's actually stated. A lot of times, people want you to lie to them; they just don't want it brought to anyone's attention that that's what you're doing. A lot of times, people want you to be a colossal prick to someone who doesn't deserve it; they just don't want anyone to notice that they wanted you to do it. And sometimes, people just want you to be wrong, so no matter what you do it'll be judged as the "wrong" thing.

And conversely, sometimes people explicitly want you to do something that you've always been told is the "wrong" thing, and will tell you it was the "right thing to do" when you did it - even while saying that it's a horrible thing to do in general. This has nothing to do with morality, but of course everyone will go on and on about their moral "justifications". Just understand what people want better than they understand themselves, and you can always stay one step ahead of them - especially if you learn to hold your cards close enough to your chest that no one knows you're playing their consciences like a fiddle.

You can spend your whole life trying to figure out the "morality" game, but ultimately it just comes down to primate power politics. And the best way to always be seen as doing the "right" thing is to be charismatic, be successfully manipulative, and be powerful enough to scare off anyone that might try to call you on your shit. And if you can't pull those off, then you're left with blind luck to determine whether you're going to be judged as a "good" or "bad" person.

Good luck.

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RE: When is it WRONG to do the RIGHT thing - 5/5/2009 1:56:55 AM

NihilusZero

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When, by doing so, you a contradicting the known desires of the person involved.

Then again, I wouldn't be interested in someone who didn't want complete transparency and honesty.

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RE: When is it WRONG to do the RIGHT thing - 5/5/2009 6:56:05 AM

MissJanice2

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It can be wrong not to do the right things if it involves someone getting hurt over a situation. Sometimes, you have to talk away.

Best Wishes,

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RE: When is it WRONG to do the RIGHT thing - 5/5/2009 6:59:21 AM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

This is not a very easily answered question for me. Anyone have any thoughts?

I would disagree. I think it's pretty simple. It is never wrong to do the right thing. But oft-times, the definition of the word "right" is worthy of a lot of discussion. Frequently there are multiple different "right" ways to view any given problem and therefor different "right" solutions. Sometimes my own personal goals get trumped by other needs in the situation so it feels to ME like I'm doing the wrong thing but overall I recognize that I'm doing as "right as I can" in the circumstance.

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RE: When is it WRONG to do the RIGHT thing - 5/5/2009 7:29:12 AM

breatheasone

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

This is not a very easily answered question for me. Anyone have any thoughts?

I would disagree. I think it's pretty simple. It is never wrong to do the right thing. But oft-times, the definition of the word "right" is worthy of a lot of discussion. Frequently there are multiple different "right" ways to view any given problem and therefor different "right" solutions. Sometimes my own personal goals get trumped by other needs in the situation so it feels to ME like I'm doing the wrong thing but overall I recognize that I'm doing as "right as I can" in the circumstance.

LOL...Did you happen to notice i said it wasn't an easily answered question FOR ME. So you can disagree, and think its simple TO YOU, however it is still a difficulty i have at times

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RE: When is it WRONG to do the RIGHT thing - 5/5/2009 7:30:03 AM

SirJ40

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By definition, the "right" thing is never "wrong".. but it may be difficult, upsetting, or painful.

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