RE: Would you buy an american car? (Full Version)

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FullfigRIMAAM1 -> RE: Would you buy an american car? (5/7/2009 7:46:54 AM)

Yes, exactly.   I'm from a large family, and my 7 seats are often necessary.
Plus, I am loyal to my American cars, since they've worked well for me in terms of lasting/safety over the years.   M




kittinSol -> RE: Would you buy an american car? (5/7/2009 7:51:20 AM)

Right, that's the other thing. This is New Hampshire. The snow is unbelievable - we're talking six months of winter a year, so the car's got to handle okay in these kinds of conditions. It looks like we're condemned to getting an effing minivan, and I heard that there was a VW that could fit the bill. Literally: I think it's pricey. It's not an American car though, but to be frank, the nationality of the vehicle is as relevant to me as Ann Coulter's choice of sanitary protection [X(] .




LaTigresse -> RE: Would you buy an american car? (5/7/2009 8:05:44 AM)

They don't really make cool non-mini van, non SUV type vehicles that can handle a herd anymore. Then again, when I was concerned with that, seat belts were optional. Hell, seats were optional! We just shoved them all in on top of one another.




CruelNUnsual -> RE: Would you buy an american car? (5/7/2009 8:09:06 AM)

The claim that there are no longer any quality differences is nonsense. Ive had 4 Toyota/Lexus SUVs and 2 Escalades, and the Escalades had 5x the problems. The days of planned obsolesence in US cars became and are still days of immediate obsolesence. I will never buy a US car unless trade laws make Japanese and German cars unaffordable in comparison.




kittinSol -> RE: Would you buy an american car? (5/7/2009 8:11:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
We just shoved them all in on top of one another.


I know, and trust me, at times I wish we could: pile them up in the back and away we go. They're not even grateful they're getting seats and safety belts and electric windows [8|] . It's whine, whine, whine all the way. Gawd.




LaTigresse -> RE: Would you buy an american car? (5/7/2009 8:12:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
We just shoved them all in on top of one another.


I know, and trust me, at times I wish we could: pile them up in the back and away we go. They're not even grateful they're getting seats and safety belts and electric windows [8|] . It's whine, whine, whine all the way. Gawd.


You'd think they had rights to comfort and safety or something!!




samboct -> RE: Would you buy an american car? (5/7/2009 8:19:47 AM)

Hi Kittin

I hate to say it- but if you're lugging around that many folks in NH- you're probably looking at a 'Burban aka Chevy Suburban.  It's not fast, it doesn't handle well, it gets crappy mileage but it does go through deep snow like a pup and it has enough room to handle the brood.  Be careful with the engines and transmissions in them-some of them go for years with no problems- others get to 100k kicking and screaming.  I'm pretty sure some of the later versions came with a stainless steel exhaust system which does last a long time.  These are pretty common vehicles in the sailing crowd.  I'm not impressed with either minivans or full size vans in snow- even with 4WD although it does help.

If you've got to go minivan- I think people tend to like the Honda's a lot, although the Grand Caravan has a lot of supporters.

Sam




kittinSol -> RE: Would you buy an american car? (5/7/2009 8:26:44 AM)

My god, it sucks so bad [:(] . I just checked out the VW Routan and it doesn't look too bad for such an ugly car but it's a Chrysler revamped, really. Have you heard how the Routan fares? You seem to be know your cars, Sam, you geek [8D] .

Perhaps I'll just get myself a Mercedes 250SL (the car of my dreams) and let the kiddies ski places in the winter, and cycle to the beach in the summer: they could really do with the fresh air [&o].





LaTigresse -> RE: Would you buy an american car? (5/7/2009 8:34:14 AM)

My pressman has a 2 yo Honda minivan he really likes. I've ridden in it and it is a really nice vehicle for what it is. Definitely plenty of room for a family.




kittinSol -> RE: Would you buy an american car? (5/7/2009 8:41:30 AM)

Oh, nice... Now, would Honda be better than VW, as a make? (Sorry, I'm car clueless.)




Hardbutt -> RE: Would you buy an american car? (5/7/2009 8:51:11 AM)

As someone else asked, "what is an American car?"

Most popular Japanese vehicles are built in America, designed by Americans. Mazda started this trend in 1978 with the RX-7 which was not sold in Japan. My Ford truck has a German engine, the last one had a Japanese transmission. Nissan is owned by Renault so doesn't that make it French? A friend's brother is a lead test engineer for Nissan, he blows up F-150s since that is the benchmark against which other's aspire. Isn't Chrysler a German company, for at least a few more weeks? Isn't the 100k mile warrantied Hyundai Sonata (Korean) built in the most advanced car plant in the world... in Alabama? Forget the label, study the car. Did you know that insurance on Hondas is so high because body parts are very expensive? So much for economical. Honda airbags are so expensive there are theft rings that specialize in them.

Did you know that almost all modern automatic transmissions are based on Chrysler's TorqueFlight design from the 50's? Every Japanese car uses American designed brake systems... this is where innovation occurs, Japan is know for making things smaller, not better. Read about Dr. Demming after WWII to see where Japan's modern technology developed it roots, the Japanese still celebrate this American's contribution. Japanese aircraft radios sucked during WWII, Americans showed them how to build ones that worked.

Don't confuse Japanese named with Japanese built... in the USA, vehicles are either UAW built or not, but most are American engineered. I live in a state with four foreign car factories but hardly any Asian residents. There is a huge difference between 'built' and 'engineered', and you want to make sure you buy an American engineered vehicle, regardless of the name tag on the grill. One big difference in how they are designed is how they are serviced, American designers understand maintanence is part of the overall ownership experience.

I worked on engines and sold repair parts during college 20 years ago, to this day I will only buy a vehicle that is American engineered. "But I don't work on my own car"... so you still have to pay someone to get it done. If the general public can make repairs on a car because of the design, then the supply of mechanics is greater and repair prices more competitive. "My Toyota is so reliable" says my Mom, who then trades it in at 70K miles after two sets of shocks. 'Reliable' to me is 160K before it needs a water pump or alternator, not an entire replacement car. I've owned two Plymouths that clocked over 1/4 million miles before I rebuilt them and drove them some more. A few years ago my Ford starter relay and a friend's Lexus relay failed in the same week. My expense was $14 and ten minutes, his was $280 and two days. He drives a Plymouth today.

Read the JD Powers reliability reports, the three year report (not the initial quality survey at six months). Look at Edmunds.com and KBB.com but remember the 'true cost of ownership' includes a heavy depreciation factor which won't be important to you if longevity is - that is you plan to pay it off and keep it for a while. Don't buy a brand, buy a model and year. Every brand offers bad vehicles, everybody has recalls (although Nissan only recently admitted it).

Biggest point of advice if you are shopping for a smaller car - find out if the engine has a timing chain or a timing belt. Never buy a car with a timing belt unless you trade them in every few years. IMO, a timing belt is a sure sign of disposable car design instead of longevity.

For the record, I have only paid a mechanic to work on my vehicles twice in the past 30 years so I do know a bit about car repairs. I've rebuilt V8 engines, own a scan tool and ocilliscope, have worked in body shops, paid my way through college in a parts store and making repairs for other people, and am writing a handbook on engine modifications for performance. Automotive design and repair is a subject about which I have practical experience. I hope this information will help you to choose a vehicle you will be happy to own.

Just remember - pick a model and year, not a brand. Happy hunting!

HB

Edited to correct a typo in the link to Kelley Blue Book .com




kittinSol -> RE: Would you buy an american car? (5/7/2009 8:53:03 AM)

Thanks!




samboct -> RE: Would you buy an american car? (5/7/2009 9:02:31 AM)

Hi Kittin

I'd approach things a bit differently.  Don't buy by brand- buy by the car/vehicle you like.  Any particular brand/model can have lemons for whatever reason.  While some brands are more prone to being considered a lemon than others (now you know why the Citroen never caught on in this country) you pay for that perception.   Also look at where you'd get something serviced.  I've never bought a new car, but I find good mechanics, so to me, a used car is a bargain.  (I don't buy from dealers.)   I also don't bellyache about giving the mechanic money instead of a dealer.  Theoretically CarMax offers a nice warranty program for a used car but I found the price differential to be a bit steep.   However, the firm does have a good rep in terms of doing business-and the added up front costs may be worth the piece of mind.  

You must test drive whatever you buy critically.  If you don't like driving something, you'll always find reasons to dislike it.  If you do like driving it- you'll forgive it's foibles to a large extent.

If cash is an issue- then buying something used from out of state may be worth doing.  Road salt kills vehicles so cars in the Northeast age hard.  Cars down south and in the middle of the country do better.  Alternatively- I might look at a 2007 Burban and see what kind of deals you could get- odds are these things are going to be heavily discounted these days.


Sam




kittinSol -> RE: Would you buy an american car? (5/7/2009 9:16:49 AM)

Yeah, I'm kinda hellbent against buying a brand new car. It's crazy to pay so much for something that will lose I don't know how much of its value as soon as it's out of the dealership. I don't mind doing it with diamonds, mind you [8D] .




samboct -> RE: Would you buy an american car? (5/7/2009 9:25:55 AM)

I dunno.  As a chemist, I look at diamonds as just a carbon crystal with occasionally a few other trace elements mixed in. Pearls on the other hand, have some interesting chemistry as well as some other gemstones like emeralds and topaz IIRC.  As a model builder though- gemstones are just the raw materials- its what somebody can do with them that can be pretty.

Sam




MadAxeman -> RE: Would you buy an american car? (5/7/2009 9:27:11 AM)

Hello, my name is Diamonds. Pleased to meet you.




popeye1250 -> RE: Would you buy an american car? (5/7/2009 9:30:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Thanks!


Kittin, when I lived in Strafford, N.H. in the foothills of the White Mountains I had a Ford F-150 pickup with four doors and four wheel drive.
That's what you want if you live in N.H.!
And they're extremely reliable, comfortable, and hold their resale value very well.
I'd drive in the snow before they plowed and before my driveway was plowed with no problem in that truck. And we'd get snow by the foot up there not in inches. Plus you have plenty of room in the back to haul or move stuff.
I think they're the number one selling vehicle in New England.




kittinSol -> RE: Would you buy an american car? (5/7/2009 9:34:27 AM)

Yes, but I transport people, not lumber :-) . I need a vehicle with at least six full seats in it.




GreedyTop -> RE: Would you buy an american car? (5/7/2009 10:47:55 AM)

KS... as has been pointed out, I think, you'll want to try and get an idea of what maintenance/repair costs will be.  VW, if I'm not mistaken, can get pretty damned pricey.  Consider something that you don't have to go to a dealer for any mechanical work(like Chevy..the Suburban would be what I would recommend).  I don't know what the auto shop pool is like up there, but here it can be hard to find independent mechanics for VWs, Subarus, etc.




LaTigresse -> RE: Would you buy an american car? (5/7/2009 11:04:47 AM)

Very true. You can have the most wonderful set of wheels in the world but if you cannot find anyone to service it......you be screwed. And not in a good way.

(says the former owner of an adorable little red Fiat that no one within 200 miles knew anything about...................)




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