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RE: Positive Experience ... Negative Backlash - 5/8/2009 11:53:15 AM   
JonnieBoy


Posts: 1468
Joined: 4/22/2009
From: Cymru
Status: offline 		It's not just about religion and politics,but that has entered the debate along with the question of anti Americanism.

GT knows (obviously) that I am not some anti American soap box merchant and in fact what I'm getting at is the other way around ... and yes I am referring to negative experience HERE.

Some of the comments on this are a bit blinkered but I was expecting that, it is a credit to some who have posted here that they have looked at things objectively and read between a few lines. As I said to my wife, I can't name names because one gets moderated for that and I already got "called" (totally wrongly) for bullshit earlier in the thread,which had I been less thick skinned might have just been the last straw. (he accepted the error but how many are grown up and decent enough to do that?)

I hope the thread has a positive effect and I hope that it gets a better understanding going, as was mentioned earlier,we have a bit of a language barrier (which is "pants" if you ask me ) at times.

So anyway please understand that just because the one or two and a few "pecking parties" want it that way, doesn't mean it IS that way. The perceived anti Americanness is just exactly that ... a perception ... but wrong. (and nothing to do with the stance I take)

I am happy as fuck with my wife and she is proud to be American, this thread is wondering about my views? ... I think it would be better to think about the hostile and spiteful views of those who inspired it in the first place.

Note well, this is NOT a "religion/politics" thing on my part,I'm here for a nice easy sociable life and a bit of entertaining  debate, some people on here DONT know how to behave with respect and I have experienced what I see as outright jealousy too (work it out) prior to downing the old profile.

I have learned some good things about people as a result of this thread and I will be richer in a positive way for their input.

And one more thing,just because I live in the UK it does not mean I see the place as being superior ... that has been a fairly popular misconception too.

Pirate



< Message edited by JonnieBoy -- 5/8/2009 11:54:44 AM >

(in reply to WyldHrt)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Positive Experience ... Negative Backlash - 5/8/2009 12:05:40 PM   
JonnieBoy


Posts: 1468
Joined: 4/22/2009
From: Cymru
Status: offline 		What the wife said Kia, what the wife said.

Pirate

(in reply to DemonKia)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Positive Experience ... Negative Backlash - 5/8/2009 12:12:39 PM   
JonnieBoy


Posts: 1468
Joined: 4/22/2009
From: Cymru
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainfire

Just because someone has a different opinion on what is going on, doesn't make them a fascist. Or socialist. Or whatever. And someone from another country has just as much right to their opinion about America as Americans have the right to their opinion about other countries. Let's face it, this world has gotten a lot smaller in this day of jet travel and instant communications world wide. Now that travel and communications have opened, maybe we can get some minds opened..... 


I like that so much I might have to Pirate a copy of it !

Pirate

(in reply to Rainfire)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Positive Experience ... Negative Backlash - 5/8/2009 2:30:44 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

You're not American, so you don't understand.



He likes burgers, and once bought a pair of Pamela Anderson's shoes on e-bay. He understands.



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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Positive Experience ... Negative Backlash - 5/8/2009 4:14:32 PM   
calamitysandra


Posts: 1682
Joined: 3/17/2006
Status: offline 		I agree that there are some posters who fit the bill which Pirate wrote, trying to stuff an perceived American superiority down everybody's throat. And yes, sometimes, just looking on from the outside, across the big pond, the crazies scream loud enough to drown out the reasonable majority, which is sad.
I feel that at the bottom lies a cultural difference, though. Children do not just grow up to believe the USA is the greatest country in the world, they are taught so. In the same manner as they are thought to be proud to be Americans. In the same manner nobody thinks twice to see the flag of the USA everywhere in the country. In the same manner as it is normal that and oath to the flag is spoken in schools.
This is a completely foreign concept for most middle Europeans. In Germany it has just very recently become acceptable to display the German flag, even if only during football championships. You will hear "I am proud to be German" most likely in a neo-nazi context.
It just does not translate.

For many Germans (and maybe other Europeans) of my generation there may very well be some added bitterness.
My grandparents were teenagers during WWII, my parents are born after it ended. I grew up listening to stories of his youth my grandfather would tell. Much was about the war, and the difficulties his family faced. They all had a happy ending, tough. They ended with the Americans. The classics. Little boys leading the way in front of US tanks, munching chocolate. Kids being given bubblegum. Mothers receiving bread to feed the family. The underling tone was clear. They are the good ones, the helped us, they freed us (yes, my grandfather, a German, used the term "freed", he was gratefull).
Growing up, my generation learned to look to the US for everything. If it was something new, innovative, it came from the US. Many a child had the american dream. Grow up and move there. Countless youngsters would list Los Angeles, New York, or Chicago as their favourite cities, regardless of knowing exactly nothing about them.
Whith the advent of the internet the world shrank. Suddenly all those of us raised to believe that the USA was the Holy Land, and Americans uniformly the coolest people ever, got to take a closer look. And we found out that you are actually only human. That the US has problems too, hell, that there are even things that are better over here!
That hurt! We had expected better off you! How dare you not be perfect.
Now, the pendulum is swinging to the other side. After decades of seeing the USA through rose coloured glasses, we now look into the dirty corners, pretending, even feeling, that they are all that exists "over there".

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(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Positive Experience ... Negative Backlash - 5/8/2009 6:18:53 PM   
JonnieBoy


Posts: 1468
Joined: 4/22/2009
From: Cymru
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

You're not American, so you don't understand.



He likes burgers, and once bought a pair of Pamela Anderson's shoes on e-bay. He understands.




You only know that because it was me that outbid you.

Pirate

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Positive Experience ... Negative Backlash - 5/8/2009 7:00:37 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

This is a reason that another forum I belong to (which is truly multi-national:  owner in one country, servers/ server admin in another, and support/ tech admin in a third) disallows both political and religious threads. It's amazing to me how well folks from all over the world get along when politics and religion are removed from the menu. There is most certainly teasing and joking between the members from various countries, but it doesn't get nasty (OK, the football fans (of both types) are a little rowdy, and the Olympics always have the Mods working overtime, lol).

There are a crapload of people who are assholes and happen to be American, just like there are a crapload of people who are assholes in general. That said, in a country with a population of over 300,000,000 in an area about 3.79 million square miles, making generalizations based on nationality doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I can only offer the following-
To paraphrase Jeff Foxworthy:
"There are plenty of smart folks in the US; doctors, lawyers, and such. Our problem is that we can't keep the most ignorant of us off the internet".


Uhmmmm....I think I agree but....may I say....really nice tits.

(in reply to WyldHrt)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Positive Experience ... Negative Backlash - 5/8/2009 10:43:25 PM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Hey, don't pick on me because your post wasn't all that well received  .

What? i really hadn't wondered about my posting being taken badly. i was wondering why in the world you said  "None of these things are exclusive to America"  When i didnt even come close to saying they were. i just didn't understand where that would have come from is all.

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(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Positive Experience ... Negative Backlash - 5/8/2009 10:45:31 PM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I agree!

Hi LaTigresse, and yes Ma'am, i agree too.....Never said other wise.


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Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Positive Experience ... Negative Backlash - 5/9/2009 12:33:19 AM   
WyldHrt


Posts: 6412
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

It's not just about religion and politics,but that has entered the debate along with the question of anti Americanism.

I didn't really think that was it. I was just noting that those 2 subjects seem to bring the claws out in most people, regardless of nationality. When those subjects are verboten from the get go (IME), people seem to get along better.
quote:

GT knows (obviously) that I am not some anti American soap box merchant and in fact what I'm getting at is the other way around ... and yes I am referring to negative experience HERE.

If you were anti American, I would find your choice of spouse rather odd, lol. I assumed you did mean a negative experience here, and I know (and dislike) the attitude you are referring to. As has been said, it is quite embarrassing for those of us who love talking to, and making friends with, people from all over the world when we see a fellow American being a prize arsehole and making us lot look bad. Unfortunately, negative experiences seem to have much more impact than positive ones for most people (myself included), and the loud, obnoxious numpty who pissed you (generic) off will be remembered long after several quiet, polite interactions are forgotten.
quote:

as was mentioned earlier,we have a bit of a language barrier (which is "pants" if you ask me ) at times.

This was actually fun on the board I mentioned in my last post. The reaction of an American who doesn't speak "English English" to being told that s/he has spit the dummy or had thrown the toys of of the pram is rather priceless (I won't even get into the misunderstanding of the word "nappies", lol), as is the reaction of some Brits and many Germans to being referred to as "Dude" amongst other slang. The term "pissed" was ALWAYS good for a laugh! On more than one occasion, we found ourselves in need of an English/English dictionary, LMAO
quote:

some people on here DONT know how to behave with respect and I have experienced what I see as outright jealousy too (work it out) prior to downing the old profile.

Da innerwebs are chock full of arsesholes, and any given group of people will have more than their fair share, it seems (see my above comment about relative impact of loud arseholes vs polite folks). Add in the cloak of anonymity, and you get arseshole to the "Nth" power on any board. As for jealousy, you have the person they wish was theirs. If attacking you for your nationality is the best they can do... pretty pathetic, innit?



< Message edited by WyldHrt -- 5/9/2009 12:36:36 AM >

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(in reply to JonnieBoy)
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RE: Positive Experience ... Negative Backlash - 5/9/2009 1:30:05 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

You're not American, so you don't understand.



He likes burgers, and once bought a pair of Pamela Anderson's shoes on e-bay. He understands.




You only know that because it was me that outbid you.

Pirate



I was never interested. It was a bluff to keep you from buying the Britney Spears bra that was going for £10k, which I've framed and now hangs proudly on my living room wall between pictures of my Grandma and the Queen.

All of the women in my life on show.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to JonnieBoy)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Positive Experience ... Negative Backlash - 5/9/2009 1:54:52 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

As has been said, it is quite embarrassing for those of us who love talking to, and making friends with, people from all over the world when we see a fellow American being a prize arsehole and making us lot look bad.



The fact that the complaint is coming from an Englishman really is bizarre. As much we laugh at this country, all of its quirks and its hypocrisy, it fails to mask that deep down we all know this country is the best place in the world. From time to time you'll hear esteemed Englishman state: "to be born an Englishman is to win the lottery of life". And, we all believe that. It may be done in a different way to the Americans - we don't have an equivalent of the American dream and perhaps we're not quite as brash - it's a more quiet patriotism, but scratch the surface and its there all the same. So, I wouldn't get too excited about someone, somewhere having his nose put of joint because he ain't getting the attention he thinks he deserves, which in the spirit of the thread is ironic.

If it helps, I used to share a house with a Canadian girl who was teaching over here and she used to go over the border to Chicago and places from time to time. She was adamant that the Americans had nothing on the English when it came to being obnoxious, loud and full of self-importance......backed up by the Rough Guide that claimed something like: "of the 200 countries this guide covers there is none so beautiful, fascinating and culturally diverse as England, but no people as annoying, insular and self-important as the English".....and the French Tourist Office said something like this: "the English have a well developed sense of humour, but they remain insular, profoundly independent and are instinctively conservative".

So, I wouldn't get too worried about people "making us look bad".

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to WyldHrt)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Positive Experience ... Negative Backlash - 5/9/2009 9:12:36 AM   
ienigma777


Posts: 283
Joined: 2/20/2009
Status: offline 		I must say, I agree with you 100%; it all boils down to cultural differences and accepting and tolerating one another's differences.

If other countries do not agree America is the greatest country the world has ever experienced...hell, we'll bomb them to oblivion, take their resources, enslave the surviours who had the audacity to resist US.

Simple; "if you are not with us, then, you are against us."

(in reply to purepleasure)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Positive Experience ... Negative Backlash - 5/9/2009 9:28:35 AM   
Phoenixpower


Posts: 8098
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra

You will hear "I am proud to be German" most likely in a neo-nazi context. 


well, I do have that talent over here in UK when I dare to answer a question honestly...and somehow when I dare to answer honestly then people feel somehow offended...last year a nurse on my placement asked me why I don't want to stay in UK...so she asked...and I answered...and after my 3rd or 4th reason out of approx. 5 reasons she couldn't help it and come up with a bad man from the last war, to pronounce bad people germany had...where I only thought

My reasons for not staying in UK the rest of my life has to do with NOW, there was no need to refer back to that just because there is nothing else she can find to come up with... since then I couldn't be bothered anymore to waste my time with her and didn't help her anymore during her activities on that placement (as that was voluntary help from my side, and nothing I was required to do.)

quote:

 there are even things that are better over here!


I  can't judge that on the US as I haven't been over there (except on one of those airports last autumn) but I agree to that from my life in UK...oh do I wish I could return that damn clock and just have never left Germany in the first place


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RIP 08-09-07

The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

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(in reply to calamitysandra)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Positive Experience ... Negative Backlash - 5/9/2009 9:30:29 AM   
Phoenixpower


Posts: 8098
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
we all know this country is the best place in the world.


UK is what??? *sorry, could not help it, but I simply can only disagree on that"

_____________________________

RIP 08-09-07

The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Positive Experience ... Negative Backlash - 5/9/2009 9:35:49 AM   
Phoenixpower


Posts: 8098
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
From time to time you'll hear esteemed Englishman state: "to be born an Englishman is to win the lottery of life".


Yeah, but I guess that must be because the baby survived the british level of care in the hospital and did not catch MRSA either  So from that perspective it did win the lottery and won the life...

_____________________________

RIP 08-09-07

The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Positive Experience ... Negative Backlash - 5/9/2009 9:47:42 AM   
Raechard


Posts: 3513
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		Pride in any country is misdirected because no single person can change what a country is. Pride in oneself I can understand but pride in a country nevah. Especially one where all the politicians can do is slowly write the Magna Carta out of existence whilst claiming the bus fare home.

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RE: Positive Experience ... Negative Backlash - 5/9/2009 9:54:35 AM   
ienigma777


Posts: 283
Joined: 2/20/2009
Status: offline 		BRAVO, BRAVO, BRAVO. Always, but always, rant, rave and protest against the diming of the light.

Without belabouring the political, cultrural events of the past eight year reign; America, has exhibited what it has been about, .....MONEY. Wealth, not for the many, only for the few, and the elite few at that.

With the money, in the trillions, wasted on the Iraq war, and subsequent "Homeland' security....wouldn't that money have been better spent in medical research, Universal
healthcare...generally making the world and it's inhabitants a much more greater living experience. Food supply enhanced, for one thing, pure water, ...ah what's the point. If it doesn't make money for the elite few...what good is it.

Yes, as another poster said...we have the freedom to be wrong...but, also
decreed freedom of non-accountibility for those wrongs...pretty neat,
huh.

I'm NOT highjacking the thread,Moderator, just adding to it. an opinion.

(in reply to DemonKia)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Positive Experience ... Negative Backlash - 5/10/2009 2:13:00 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
we all know this country is the best place in the world.


UK is what??? *sorry, could not help it, but I simply can only disagree on that"


No need to apologise. Life's too short to live somewhere that you don't like.


_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Phoenixpower)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Positive Experience ... Negative Backlash - 5/10/2009 2:21:19 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
From time to time you'll hear esteemed Englishman state: "to be born an Englishman is to win the lottery of life".


Yeah, but I guess that must be because the baby survived the british level of care in the hospital and did not catch MRSA either  So from that perspective it did win the lottery and won the life...



That's far from our only failing, I can tell you. It's a strange, old world ain't it - the things that are acceptable, and the things that aren't.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Phoenixpower)
Profile   Post #: 120
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