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RE: Concern for a friend - 5/8/2009 9:07:29 PM

DarkSteven

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The thing I wonder about is experience. Obviously, your friend trusts this Master. If he's done this before and can be trusted, that's one thing. If he's still trying to figure out which side of the whip to hold, she could be in danger.

Unfortunately, she seems to have made up your mind and you may simply have to respect her position.

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Post #: 21

RE: Concern for a friend - 5/9/2009 4:52:00 AM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PolyAna

During a discussion with a friend about safe words she said several things which alarmed me. She states that she does not need a safe word because shes not enough of a pain slut to need one, she's not even a masso.

That's fair enough.

She thinks that her Sir should accept all the responsibility and know when to stop play by reading her.

That's also fair enough........mine always has.

She cannot comprehend that it is a joint responsibility and that by having a safe word which her sir wishes her to have, it is just that extra bit of safety.

That's fine if you want/need that *extra bit of safety* YOURSELF. I never did. It's not the same for everyone and it's not a joint responsibility in my relationship. It is his. That's how things have always been for us. If he wanted me to have one , I'd have one though......he's the one deciding how things run, not me.

The relationship is quite new, they have only played together about three or four times.
She feels that by accepting use of a safe word she is giving her Sir free licence to 'thrash' her and not build up her pain slut training slowly. She is assuming he will ignore the knowledge of her pain limits at present and just go hell for leather.

She, and they, will find what works for them, whatever she *thinks*.

She also feels that if she accepts having a safe word it automatically equates to her Sir not bothering to monitor her or learn to read her etc.

Whatever she *feels* or *thinks* will be clearer when she's spent more time with him. He is the only one who can either dispel or confirm those thoughts, no-one else.

Now personally i'm not a safe word girl but not for any of the reasons above. I find the reasons above kind of worrying.

Any thoughts?

She, along with him, will find what works over time. It's a new relationship and she will likely change her thoughts on many things. I'm glad that I didn't have people waving warning bells at me when I was happy enough finding out in my own way.

agirl

(in reply to PolyAna)

Post #: 22

RE: Concern for a friend - 5/9/2009 9:31:31 AM

missturbation

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~FR~

Polyana,

At this point i'd say fuck it and just let your friend and her Sir get on with it. Move far away from the fallout of the disaster it sounds like it could be. Lack of trust, not wanting to take any responsibility and naivety that you don't need a safe word because you don't play hard, recipe for disaster

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Post #: 23

RE: Concern for a friend - 5/9/2009 10:28:21 AM

PanthersMom

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your friend and her Sir are consenting adults. leave them alone, mind your own relationship and stay out of theirs. it is up to them and them alone to manage their own relationship, not a third party. it's nice that you are a concerned friend, but your friend is a big girl now, she is responsible for negotiating her own relations.

PM

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Post #: 24

RE: Concern for a friend - 5/9/2009 10:41:25 AM

QuixoticErrant

Posts: 260
Joined: 2/1/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PolyAna

During a discussion with a friend about safe words she said several things which alarmed me. She states that she does not need a safe word because shes not enough of a pain slut to need one, she's not even a masso.
She thinks that her Sir should accept all the responsibility and know when to stop play by reading her. She cannot comprehend that it is a joint responsibility and that by having a safe word which her sir wishes her to have, it is just that extra bit of safety. The relationship is quite new, they have only played together about three or four times.
She feels that by accepting use of a safe word she is giving her Sir free licence to 'thrash' her and not build up her pain slut training slowly. She is assuming he will ignore the knowledge of her pain limits at present and just go hell for leather.
She also feels that if she accepts having a safe word it automatically equates to her Sir not bothering to monitor her or learn to read her etc.

Now personally i'm not a safe word girl but not for any of the reasons above. I find the reasons above kind of worrying.

Any thoughts?

I think very much that you should be concerned for your friend. She is clearly inexperienced - or worse, self destructive and delusional. A good Dom will start probing around in her head. Based on things she has said, he may put her in a situation that he feels will be emotionally intense for her. Because of things he does not know about her past, it may be much more intense than he expected and rather than being something that pushes boundaries, rather snaps her into a private hell. The safeword is sometimes more important in those situations then it is where the physical is too intense.

I heard a story about a Dom - from a dear friend of mine, who taught a rather sharp lesson about this to a certain girl with similar attitudes. When I first heard the story, I had thought that he had been much too harsh. Upon more reflection, it really seemed to be just right.

At some public event, a slave girl was "auctioned" and announced that she had "no limits and no safeword." She had very long and beautiful hair. She clearly took pride in it and cared for it a lot. He acquired her, got a scissors and cut it off. She acknowledged the lesson.

(in reply to PolyAna)

Post #: 25

RE: Concern for a friend - 5/9/2009 10:45:12 AM

QuixoticErrant

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Joined: 2/1/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PanthersMom

your friend and her Sir are consenting adults. leave them alone, mind your own relationship and stay out of theirs. it is up to them and them alone to manage their own relationship, not a third party. it's nice that you are a concerned friend, but your friend is a big girl now, she is responsible for negotiating her own relations.

PM

And yet friends do tend to care for each other... So if your friend, a big consenting girl, were going to jump off of a building, would you say nothing and mind your own business? I am rather sick and tired of the whole "let them suffer" if they make a bad choice attitude that permeates these boards. People have responsibilities to one another.

(in reply to PanthersMom)

Post #: 26

RE: Concern for a friend - 5/9/2009 11:02:10 AM

PolyAna

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quote:

but since it is ultimately her own choice, what do you expect us to do?

absolutely nothing, i was just trying to get others perspectives as i felt i was too close to be completely open minded about this.

quote:

The problem with being a friend is we are still an outsider to the inner dynamics of the other's relationship with a partner and many times how they play and the manner in which they play may not agree with our personal level of acceptance

I wasn't going to mention this as i didn't feel it relevant at the time of writing this thread but i'm not an outsider. We are a triad.

quote:

if this submissive isnt a massochist then surely she should be reasonably easy to read.

Really? All doms are mind readers and experts at body language now are they?

quote:

does having a safe word give a Dominant the licence to go hell for leather - arguably yes. is that appropriate with a non-masso who dislikes the safe word option - arguably no.

So having a safe word automatically equates to the dom having licence to play harder? I think usually the dom decides what is appropriate unless limits are in place.

quote:

the problem here is that if the D wants to play harder and the s is refusing a safe word then the D is inadvertently being controlled by the submissive in what he can do with her. clearly without a safe word he doesnt feel he can push her harder.

And by refusing a safe word the dom has offered when he has stated that he may not be fully in control during play what is she doing?

quote:

To be as honest as I possibly can Polyana, perhaps you are having issue with this because this would not work for you and your friend is not living up to your standards.

Hell no it doesnt work for me. I don't use a safe word and having one would be a deal breaker for me. I dont refuse a safe word because i think sir will play harder with me though and i dont refuse a safe word because i believe at low levels of pain im not going to get hurt and i certainly dont refuse a safe word so my dom will be ultimately repsonsible for anything bad that happens.

quote:

your friend and her Sir are consenting adults. leave them alone, mind your own relationship and stay out of theirs. it is up to them and them alone to manage their own relationship, not a third party. it's nice that you are a concerned friend, but your friend is a big girl now, she is responsible for negotiating her own relations.

It is my relationship too. Unfortunately i also feel so strongly about this that i may not be able to stick around for the train wreck that could ensue.

quote:

I heard a story about a Dom - from a dear friend of mine, who taught a rather sharp lesson about this to a certain girl with similar attitudes. When I first heard the story, I had thought that he had been much too harsh. Upon more reflection, it really seemed to be just right.

At some public event, a slave girl was "auctioned" and announced that she had "no limits and no safeword." She had very long and beautiful hair. She clearly took pride in it and cared for it a lot. He acquired her, got a scissors and cut it off. She acknowledged the lesson.

All i can say is FUCKING HELL and then apologise for the language

quote:

And yet friends do tend to care for each other... So if your friend, a big consenting girl, were going to jump off of a building, would you say nothing and mind your own business? I am rather sick and tired of the whole "let them suffer" if they make a bad choice attitude that permeates these boards. People have responsibilities to one another.

I agree. All i have tried to do is lead the horse to water (info), i cannot make it drink.

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 27

RE: Concern for a friend - 5/9/2009 11:10:26 AM

QuixoticErrant

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You are doing right. You see this correctly. You will have to accept that you may not get through to her, but you still have a duty as a friend to try. There sre many permutations of how this can go crazy.

For yourself, you need to ask of yourself, how much crazy you will be able to bear if this does go to hell.

(in reply to PolyAna)

Post #: 28

RE: Concern for a friend - 5/9/2009 11:18:36 AM

sweetnurseBBW

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From: North Carolina
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PolyAna

quote:

Are they enjoying each other and not ending up in the hospital? If so, it ain't broke, and there's no need to "fix" it.

So it only becomes a problem when something gets broken. What about prevention?

A safeword does not prevent harm. A safeword is something we use when we want things to stop but does that mean no harm was done? No it doesn't. To think a safeword prevents any harm is just not true.

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(in reply to PolyAna)

Post #: 29

RE: Concern for a friend - 5/9/2009 11:25:17 AM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant

quote:

ORIGINAL: PanthersMom

your friend and her Sir are consenting adults. leave them alone, mind your own relationship and stay out of theirs. it is up to them and them alone to manage their own relationship, not a third party. it's nice that you are a concerned friend, but your friend is a big girl now, she is responsible for negotiating her own relations.

PM

And yet friends do tend to care for each other... So if your friend, a big consenting girl, were going to jump off of a building, would you say nothing and mind your own business? I am rather sick and tired of the whole "let them suffer" if they make a bad choice attitude that permeates these boards. People have responsibilities to one another.

Come on...Being a friend might amount to voicing your concern but might not amount to actually locking them up. Without getting into the whole dramatic circus of *intervention*.....how many parents here have *allowed* their littleuns to discover the realities of their *thoughts and ideas*?

agirl

(in reply to QuixoticErrant)

Post #: 30

RE: Concern for a friend - 5/9/2009 11:25:43 AM

PolyAna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetnurseBBW

quote:

ORIGINAL: PolyAna

quote:

Are they enjoying each other and not ending up in the hospital? If so, it ain't broke, and there's no need to "fix" it.

So it only becomes a problem when something gets broken. What about prevention?

A safeword does not prevent harm. A safeword is something we use when we want things to stop but does that mean no harm was done? No it doesn't. To think a safeword prevents any harm is just not true.

Well i would say twice the precautions (safe word and sirs judgement) would be better than no safe word. But thats just me. Especially when the dom openly admits he may lose control.

(in reply to sweetnurseBBW)

Post #: 31

RE: Concern for a friend - 5/9/2009 12:34:14 PM

agirl

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Joined: 6/14/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PolyAna

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetnurseBBW

quote:

ORIGINAL: PolyAna

quote:

Are they enjoying each other and not ending up in the hospital? If so, it ain't broke, and there's no need to "fix" it.

So it only becomes a problem when something gets broken. What about prevention?

A safeword does not prevent harm. A safeword is something we use when we want things to stop but does that mean no harm was done? No it doesn't. To think a safeword prevents any harm is just not true.

Well i would say twice the precautions (safe word and sirs judgement) would be better than no safe word. But thats just me. Especially when the dom openly admits he may lose control.

I wouldn't be trusting the judgement of any dom that admits he may lose control. Let's put it this way ..if HE can't be in control , then I'D have to be. That negates the whole point of having a dom, to me.

I'm quite capable of deciding who does what and when and what I will or won't do, or allow, .....but if I'm in a D/s relationship, then the whole point is, that I've chosen NOT to decide those things.

If it's a case of prevention...then surely, she has the same *dom* you have.......... Is he likely to *break* her? What makes you trust him in a way she can't?

agirl

(in reply to PolyAna)

Post #: 32

RE: Concern for a friend - 5/9/2009 12:39:57 PM

missturbation

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quote:

I'm quite capable of deciding who does what and when and what I will or won't do, or allow, .....

Hijack alert

so reminds me of pretty woman when julia roberts shouts 'i say when, i say where, i say who, i say when' lol

< Message edited by missturbation -- 5/9/2009 12:41:32 PM >

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Post #: 33

RE: Concern for a friend - 5/9/2009 12:59:31 PM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

I'm quite capable of deciding who does what and when and what I will or won't do, or allow, .....

Hijack alert

so reminds me of pretty woman when julia roberts shouts 'i say when, i say where, i say who, i say when' lol

The resemblance ends there, sadly......lol

agirl

gahhh...spelling

< Message edited by agirl -- 5/9/2009 1:01:11 PM >

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 34

RE: Concern for a friend - 5/9/2009 1:15:47 PM

AquaticSub

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~Fast Reply~

There are plenty of people who don't use safe words on this forums. Never have, never will and will argue quite well against using them. I'm not in that camp but they have certainly shown me that safewords aren't required.

Look, the safe word is not a magic wand. Saying it won't freeze the guy in time. If he wants to beat the shit out of your friend, saying "banana" isn't going to stop him. And having a safe word won't stop him from tanning her hide if he wants to. I would talk to her and explain that a safe word is just another tool.

What I would be concerned about is not if she uses a safe word or not but why she thinks her sir likely to ignore her limits.

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(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 35

RE: Concern for a friend - 5/9/2009 1:26:03 PM

MistressRouge

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From: Birmingham West Midlands UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PanthersMom

your friend and her Sir are consenting adults. leave them alone, mind your own relationship and stay out of theirs. it is up to them and them alone to manage their own relationship, not a third party. it's nice that you are a concerned friend, but your friend is a big girl now, she is responsible for negotiating her own relations.

PM

I agree.

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(in reply to PanthersMom)

Post #: 36

RE: Concern for a friend - 5/9/2009 2:02:22 PM

Whenready

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Polyana: During a discussion with a friend about safe words she said several things which alarmed me.
OK. Reasonable to be concerned about your friend.

She states that she does not need a safe word because shes not enough of a pain slut to need one, she's not even a masso.
As has been seen above, opinions are divided. Personally, I have required My subs to have a safe word. I'm good (and SOOOO modest), I'm in control, but I can make a mistake just like anyone else. I am I believe good at reading people, but I'm not perfect. Emotional pain tends, I think, to be much more damaging than physical pain. A safe word can help avoid that risk.

She thinks that her Sir should accept all the responsibility and know when to stop play by reading her. She cannot comprehend that it is a joint responsibility and that by having a safe word which her sir wishes her to have, it is just that extra bit of safety. The relationship is quite new, they have only played together about three or four times.

It is My responsibility. Especially if (for example) she is tied & gagged. (In that case, I have a drop ball, but that's My choice, as per My view above). She can't physically stop Me, Therefore it IS My responsibility. You go on to say:
...he has stated that he may not be fully in control during play what is she doing?
What are either of you doing playing with a Dom who cannot control himself? That decision is her responsibility - and yours in your own case.

She feels that by accepting use of a safe word she is giving her Sir free licence to 'thrash' her and not build up her pain slut training slowly.
Possible. Never heard of talking to each other about wants and needs? Communication, communication, communication....

She is assuming he will ignore the knowledge of her pain limits at present and just go hell for leather.
Also possible. Assumptions are however always dangerous and often wrong. But only for the purpose of argument here, let's say He IS going to go hell for leather, and doesn't have self control. If she thinks that, why is she consenting to play in the first place? Why is she (are you) in the relationship, and, if He has no control, is He going to listen to a stop word anyway?

She also feels that if she accepts having a safe word it automatically equates to her Sir not bothering to monitor her or learn to read her etc.
As above, it could equate to that. It doesn't have to.

Now personally i'm not a safe word girl but not for any of the reasons above.
So you want her to do as you say but not as you do. I bet that's a convincing argument. The reasons become rather irrelevant in that context.

I find the reasons above kind of worrying.
As the thread has grown, are you worrying enough? And for the right people?

Any thoughts?
See above.

I wasn't going to mention this as i didn't feel it relevant at the time of writing this thread but i'm not an outsider. We are a triad.
I laughed when I read this. No, I'm sure the fact that she's not in fact "just" a friend but is part of YOUR triad (you appear to have no profile, so I am guessing that you too are submissive, with all the inherent possibilities for error that that entails) makes no difference at all. I am quite sure that your "help" for someone interacting with your Dom is not interfering in any way. "Interfering" is if anything, rather kindly put.

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 37

RE: Concern for a friend - 5/9/2009 2:34:13 PM

DesFIP

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She has a point about some tops expecting that they can do whatever they want if the bottom doesn't safe word. This does happen. I'm guessing she either encountered one of those in the past or heard a horror story about it.

But they've played several times, he is aware she isn't into pain, he's read her very well, each time has been good enough that she feels confident to go back. So what's your problem?

I've never used a safeword, I do say cramp if I get one. I use a gesture if gagged but from the beginning he's always led the way and he's never gone too far, too fast. He does read me.

Safewords work for some people but not others. Some people feel as if they're failing if they use them, thus they don't use them when they ought to. Others just freeze up and can't talk if something bad happens.

You're interfering for no reason. They have a different relationship from yours. The bottom line is they're happy, so butt out.

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(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 38

RE: Concern for a friend - 5/9/2009 5:29:54 PM

OmegaG

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I'm on the side that a safe word isn't a magic word that is going to make everyone live happily every after.

Honestly, we discussed one when we first started playing and I've never used it, not because his crystal ball tells him whenever I am in trouble but because I am quite capable of telling him exactly what is wrong which I find far more effecient then to say "pumpernickle" and have him stop, ask me what is wrong and then adjust me so I don't have a cramp in my shoulder anymore.

Now once I had a panic attack when the hood was put on me and I can tell you right now, I, in no way, could remember any words at that time. If it weren't for the fact that he recognized that my body language and tone had changed I'd have been in serious trouble.

So yeah, I didn't tell him that I didn't want a safe word, it's back there somewhere, but I suppose if I blurted out any word that didn't fit the sceen would cause him pause, but I don't pretend that he holds my life in his hands save for that one word.

_____________________________

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Sex without pain is like food without taste.
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(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 39

RE: Concern for a friend - 5/9/2009 6:04:39 PM

PolyAna

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Joined: 4/16/2009
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I have to wonder sometimes about what i read here. So many miss the point of the thread and ramble about inconsequential stuff. This thread was never about whether she had a safe word or not. Its about the reasoning behind not having a safe word.

Reason 1. Sir will go hell for leather and thrash her if she has one.
Now i obviously know sir and he would not, he would carry on the training he has begun. Lack of trust in him or what?

Reason 2. You don't need a safe word if you don't play hard. Huh? Does that mean damage at a low level can not occur?

Reason 3. It means he won't bother to monitor / watch her during the play. Since when?

The reasons for her not wanting one bother me not the fact she will or won't have one.

I at the moment am having a relationship and if i feel they are playing unsafely, irresponsibly and naively where does that leave us? Noone here has to agree with my view to make it valid for me and for me to wonder what the hell to do.

(in reply to OmegaG)

Post #: 40

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