RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant

RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant (Full Version)

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LadyConstanze -> RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant (5/11/2009 11:12:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact There is this great advantage to living in the South. People don't tend to raise a brow when a submissive male does the very same things that a Southern Gentleman might do. I'm very much hoping that this won't become a problem for Me when I move back west. What a lot of people regard as submissive behaviour is often just good old fashioned manners, a bit like I'm perfectly capable of opening my own doors or a bottle of wine, but it is something I expect a guy to do. I can overlook quite a few things, but rudeness or lack of manners is something I find quite horrible. And nope, I am not living in an ivory tower, I work and my (mostly male) co-workers open doors. What actually makes more of a difference to me is not so much if he does open the door for me, it's if he opens the door for the old lady or the woman with the kid, burdened down by shopping - that shows integrity because he's not "putting it on" because he knows I'm a sucker for manners, it shows what kind of person he is.

ShaktiSama -> RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant (5/11/2009 11:12:41 AM)
I see what boiJen is saying more clearly with a little clarification. On the other hand, I can recall some dynamics I have seen where stepping out of the "role" would actually help to resolve moments of crisis, if it could be done temporarily and with a purpose in mind. Some D/S dynamics are very, very heavily restricted and full of protocol. Both parties may find them fulfilling, but there may come times when the dynamic needs to be suspended to allow for egalitarian communication--you could find that you need to have "rules that help to negotiate or mitigate the rules". I can easily see how it would be very difficult to ask for changes or express doubts, fears, reservations etc. if you were very deep in a submissive bond that required, for example, eye contact or speech restrictions.

Kaiel -> RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant (5/11/2009 11:18:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze quote: ORIGINAL: Kaiel However, things are of course "toned down" a bit when interacting with 'vanilla types'... but nothing changes between U/us. he always walks on My right, he always takes care of any needs I have when out and about and is always serving Me. Of course I won't "randomly slap him' at Christmas dinner if he does something I don't approve. But, I sure do make a mental note to handle it as soon as W/we get home! [8D] In all my relationships, no matter if there was a D/s factor involved or not, the guy would walk on the side of the street (not the right side but actually the side where the traffic was old fashioned "protection"), took care of my needs and wants and tried to make my life pleasant, I wouldn't consider that submissive behaviour at all, I consider that being a gentleman and I expect nothing less from a person I decide to be with. Same with not approving with some actions, I would not have it "out" in front of an audience, I rather wait until we are at home, address and handle it there as I would consider it impolite and rude to involve others in something so private, no matter if it is D/s or just a domestic disagreement. agreed!

GYPZYQUEEN -> RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant (5/17/2009 7:05:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoiJen quote: Sorry...I read repeatedly about people having "vanilla sides" which refers to mood swings, attitudes, PMS, and various other people stuff.

GYPZYQUEEN -> RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant (5/17/2009 7:07:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GYPZYQUEEN quote: ORIGINAL: BoiJen quote: Sorry...I read repeatedly about people having "vanilla sides" which refers to mood swings, attitudes, PMS, and various other people stuff. reply: as A Domme I am always one..whether I have mood swings..attitudes..weed the garden,,pick out towels at IKEA.. have PMS..feed my grandson...write a letter I AM A PERSON...'people" all of the time..a dominant person.. I don't weed my garden vanilla..cook vanilla... because it is ME doing it.. "VANILLA side" is a label for MISCONCEPTIONS.. usually..for ppl who may think I feed my grandson in a DOMME outfit...or weed the garden and whip the shit of the weeds.. THOSE are actions..and appearance.. FOR those who have play partners/PT relationships ..there may be more of seperation...in ACTIONS>..vanilla..public..BDSM private.. GQ apologies folks..still having quote troubles

lusciouslips19 -> RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant (5/17/2009 7:11:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact There is this great advantage to living in the South. People don't tend to raise a brow when a submissive male does the very same things that a Southern Gentleman might do. I'm very much hoping that this won't become a problem for Me when I move back west. What a lot of people regard as submissive behaviour is often just good old fashioned manners, a bit like I'm perfectly capable of opening my own doors or a bottle of wine, but it is something I expect a guy to do. I can overlook quite a few things, but rudeness or lack of manners is something I find quite horrible. And nope, I am not living in an ivory tower, I work and my (mostly male) co-workers open doors. What actually makes more of a difference to me is not so much if he does open the door for me, it's if he opens the door for the old lady or the woman with the kid, burdened down by shopping - that shows integrity because he's not "putting it on" because he knows I'm a sucker for manners, it shows what kind of person he is. I dont think of these gentelmanly act as submissive at all. I actually wouldnt be with a dominant that doesnt extend these courtesies to me. Am I spoiled expecting a man to open my door, extend a hand, walk on the left or pay a check? No, I am a woman.[sm=shake.gif]

LAgirlsub -> RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant (5/18/2009 2:48:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact There is this great advantage to living in the South. People don't tend to raise a brow when a submissive male does the very same things that a Southern Gentleman might do. I'm very much hoping that this won't become a problem for Me when I move back west. No need to worry Ma'am, we be liberated folk out here! (smile)...that is if you mean to my great state of CA.

LAgirlsub -> RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant (5/18/2009 3:05:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact There is this great advantage to living in the South. People don't tend to raise a brow when a submissive male does the very same things that a Southern Gentleman might do. I'm very much hoping that this won't become a problem for Me when I move back west. What a lot of people regard as submissive behaviour is often just good old fashioned manners, a bit like I'm perfectly capable of opening my own doors or a bottle of wine, but it is something I expect a guy to do. I can overlook quite a few things, but rudeness or lack of manners is something I find quite horrible. And nope, I am not living in an ivory tower, I work and my (mostly male) co-workers open doors. What actually makes more of a difference to me is not so much if he does open the door for me, it's if he opens the door for the old lady or the woman with the kid, burdened down by shopping - that shows integrity because he's not "putting it on" because he knows I'm a sucker for manners, it shows what kind of person he is. You know it's interesting...but I wonder what those males think of me...I find it so rude that 'you just have to be in such a rush in LA' that you can't hold a door open for the next person coming or going, I'm an equal-opportunity-door-opener that I do it for males - even those big burly ones in the gym. Elizabeth scratches her head...I wonder what they think of that? But definitely my gosh if someone - again either gender is holding a bunch of stuff - everyone, hold the door for them. I can't even remember when I've held a door open for an attractive woman...I don't think of it as winning brownie points. Now that begs the question...would you let me hold the door open for you LadyC? I never said I was beyond using this discussion on manners to flirt with you (smile - it's the late hour...I'm in a mood...I think I mostly just like playing with you).

PeonForHer -> RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant (5/18/2009 4:07:02 AM)
I dont think of these gentelmanly act as submissive at all. I actually wouldnt be with a dominant that doesnt extend these courtesies to me. Am I spoiled expecting a man to open my door, extend a hand, walk on the left or pay a check? No, I am a woman.[sm=shake.gif] One slant I've heard put on this is that a man will act in such gentlemanly ways in order to disempower you. Thus, for instance, he carries your bags for you in order to show you, subtly, that he's strong whereas you're weak and feeble. This is an argument that I file in my head under the general category of 'Worth a thought, but I wouldn't want to defend it'

Andalusite -> RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant (5/18/2009 8:16:40 AM)
I like men who are gentlemen, regardless of BDSM-orientation. LadyPact, I don't think that Southern manners would draw any negative attention, though other men in general may not be as inclined toward the level of formality as in the South.

slavekal -> RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant (5/18/2009 6:15:28 PM)
This is why I love you, jen. Great comments. Check out my latest blog posts. I had to vent some stuff about my beloved Ms. Mlicious. I supplied her with a five man crew to do a shitload of work at her house. And she could not have been more vanilla and buddy-ish. I was appalled. You would've though we were her brothers or something. That is a good way to kill the golden goose, lemme tell ya.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant (5/18/2009 7:17:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slavekal This is why I love you, jen. Great comments. Check out my latest blog posts. I had to vent some stuff about my beloved Ms. Mlicious. I supplied her with a five man crew to do a shitload of work at her house. And she could not have been more vanilla and buddy-ish. I was appalled. You would've though we were her brothers or something. That is a good way to kill the golden goose, lemme tell ya. In what way, Kal? Should she have been an ungrateful bitch? This was just a work crew, not her official slave chain gang.

slavekal -> RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant (5/18/2009 7:22:22 PM)
Not an ungrateful bitch, no. But not one of the guys either. There is an obvious difference from a lady accepting service and a buddy asking for a favor. And I guarantee she knows exactly what I mean. You act like one of the guys, and the chances of getting that slave chain gang to come back are pretty slim.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant (5/18/2009 7:36:40 PM)
Oh, okay, that makes sense! The boss is the boss, even if she pays for lunch.

MistressBri2009 -> RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant (5/18/2009 7:40:08 PM)
I like what I think it was the author of Loving Dominate said..I cant be Dom every second, even I dont want to wear 3" high heels when I wake up. Something along those lines. To me this is what I mean when I say I cant do 24/7.

Andalusite -> RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant (5/18/2009 7:44:01 PM)
Kal, when you posted about this while it was still in the planning stages, you said that you wanted her to actually dominate them, not just react like a lady rather than a buddy. Personally, I don't feel comfortable dominating people who I don't have an emotional connection to, but I certainly let friends who do me a favour let me know that I appreciate it!

AAkasha -> RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant (5/18/2009 7:47:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slavekal Not an ungrateful bitch, no. But ont one of the guys either. There is an obvious difference from a lady accepting service and a buddy asking for a favor. And I guarantee she knows exactly what I mean. You act like one of the guys, and the chances of getting that slave chain gang to come back are pretty slim. What if her innermost desire at that moment, what would please her most and make her most at ease would be the "buddy vibe," rather than than the "lady accepting service"? Is it about her pleasure and comfort, or the entertainment of her volunteer "crew"? I get really frustrated with situations that imply that a femdom must behave in a manner in order to entertain or meet the expectations of submissives who are supposed to be "in service." If it's a barter arrangement with expectations cleared and agreed upon by all parties, that's one thing. But if not, I would think submissive men would enjoy most a woman feeling her authentic self that day, and not performing out of pressure. I don't break out the whips and chains each and every day, and I certainly wouldn't do it for submissive "slave chain gang" because that's the show they were coming to see. I'd shell out the cash for workers instead. Akasha

slavekal -> RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant (5/18/2009 7:53:53 PM)
Let me clarify a bit. All the guys there had some submissive connection to the lady. We have all served her in one way or another. She is considering putting a collar and/or chastity device on two of the men besides me. One of the others is brand new, but she is giving thought to adding him to her little stable. And the lady was fully aware that all of the men present were doing some HARD labor for her because she is a dominant woman, and we are submissive men. I think even Ms. Mlicious would admit that she threw cold water on the situation, although she might not be able to pin down exactly why. She could have/should have relaxed all day and enjoyed herself and the fact that she was getting lots of free labor from five worshipful men. Instead, she acted like we were her nephews or something. She practically had to be dragged away from doing (unnecessary) grunt work. Even then, she still did some of it. Ms. AAkasha, I am not suggesting that she owed us "playtime" or that she had to perform for us. But if a lady expects men to act like slaves, she had darn well better act like a Mistress. If not, she is not going to get that kind of work done for free. Everything has a price. Slave service included. If you want to be served, you have to behave like a queen. If you want to act like a washerwoman, we will let you. But you will be doing it by yourself.

MzMia -> RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant (5/18/2009 8:27:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slavekal Let me clarify a bit. All the guys there had some submissive connection to the lady. We have all served her in one way or another. She is considering putting a collar and/or chastity device on two of the men besides me. One of the others is brand new, but she is giving thought to adding him to her little stable. And the lady was fully aware that all of the men present were doing some HARD labor for her because she is a dominant woman, and we are submissive men. I think even Ms. Mlicious would admit that she threw cold water on the situation, although she might not be able to pin down exactly why. She could have/should have relaxed all day and enjoyed herself and the fact that she was getting lots of free labor from five worshipful men. Instead, she acted like we were her nephews or something. She practically had to be dragged away from doing (unnecessary) grunt work. Even then, she still did some of it. Ms. AAkasha, I am not suggesting that she owed us "playtime" or that she had to perform for us. But if a lady expects men to act like slaves, she had darn well better act like a Mistress. If not, she is not going to get that kind of work done for free. Everything has a price. Slave service included. If you want to be served, you have to behave like a queen. If you want to act like a washerwoman, we will let you. But you will be doing it by yourself. I enjoy reading what you have to say kal. I don't bother to comment on a lot I read these days, but for you I must! Who is the Dominant in this situation? MsMilicious can "behave" any way she wants to behave. If she wants to thank the workers with a glass of water and a high five, and state "Take it easy" before she shuts the door, I believe she can do just that. I find your post about her behavior, and what YOU feel her behavior should be, a bit unsettling.

slavekal -> RE: "Vanilla side"...what?...rant (5/18/2009 8:31:27 PM)
She can do anything she likes. But she should not be surprised when the well of slave labor dries up if she acts more like a buddy than a Mistress.

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