RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (Full Version)

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LadyConstanze -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 4:10:02 PM)

There's one thing nobody seems to take into account with all the "ideal weight", muscles are a lot heavier than fat, so somebody could be easily 20 to even 40 lbs over ideal and have not too much body fat. If you want to take it to extremes, your average body builder would be obese on a scale if only weight and hight would be taken into consideration.



ShaktiSama -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 4:12:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool

I agree with tulip. I get many insults from people about my size but i still look fucking amazing ^_^ no matter what they say i know who and what i am, which is one great girl with one hell of an awesome behind.


I agree entirely.  You also have a lovely face, and I think you would make a fine model for erotic photography.



CatdeMedici -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 4:17:20 PM)

I actually think because of all the fantasies that abound, BDSM ers are LESS accepting.



HollywoodExecDom -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 4:23:13 PM)

quote:

In terms of judging the obese, I kind of sigh at what I call the "matrix" group who have been brainwashed by the diet and fashion industries in particular to think of obesity in simplistic terms. To quote one of the world's foremost obesity researchers "obesity is a complex and difficult disease". I suggest anyone truly interested in learning more about it do some IN DEPTH scientific research.


I've worked with the obese. I've looked at the science.

Yes, the question of why some people are naturally skinny and why some people, try as they might, will always be 20-40 lbs above optimal weight is very complex. (so called overweight but under the term mild obesity)

Yes, the question of why some people lose weight faster than others is very complex.

Yes, the question of what factor most contributes to the explosion of obesity today is complex.

Yes, the science in determing what is the least time consuming method of reducing obesity is complex.

Yes, the psychology of why some people have major problems with portion control is complex.

Yes, the question of how appetite manifests itself along physical pathways in the brain is complex.

So yes there are "complex and difficult" questions that are being debated about obesity.

What is not complex....

You get obese due to poor nutrition and inactivity. Period. Proven simple science. You eat the wrong foods in the wrong quantities without enough exercise or metabolism boosting activities to handle it, you'll get obese.

Stop making excuses for it.

Its similar to the alcoholic. They make 1,000 excuses why they can't stop drinking. But at the end of the day for the alcoholic, the problem is drinking alcohol. Plain and simple. But sure, I grant that alcoholism is also a "complex and difficult disease," and alcoholics similarly want to blame everything for their problem but themselves.

I really hope everyone who is obese won't get upset by this sentiment but get empowered to realize that Obesity is a problem and you have the power to do something about it.

Study up on nutrition. Make a plan. Limit yourself to healthy food and healthy portions.

But above all... Go join a gym and get a personal trainer. Honestly. For $30 a session, you'll get someone to guide you through losing weight in a healthy way, you'll save your life and improve your sense of self worth...

And yes, I will conceed, its much harder for some to lose weight than others - but actual clinically defined obesity is not genetic, being moderately overweight is.




Stephann -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 4:34:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

There's one thing nobody seems to take into account with all the "ideal weight", muscles are a lot heavier than fat, so somebody could be easily 20 to even 40 lbs over ideal and have not too much body fat. If you want to take it to extremes, your average body builder would be obese on a scale if only weight and hight would be taken into consideration.


Isn't that a bit of a semantics discussion?  When we're addressing weight, we're usually saying "in general, a person who is.... blah blah blah."  A good friend of mine, M, is stunning at 5'9" and 180lbs (I'm 5'10", 165lbs.)  She's former Army, served two Iraq tours, and runs half ironmans for fun.  I love that she actually presents a physical challenge when I'm tossing her ass around the room before holding her down and grudge fucking her.  When I say I 'generally' don't prefer girls heavier than me, I mean generally; M is clearly an exception, and that works for me.  I've met very few women at 180lbs that I would personally consider either fit, or physically attractive. 

Refrain: there are no lack of overweight women who wouldn't find me tall enough/dark enough/young enough/old enough/black enough/rich enough/open minded enough to date.

Stephan



LadyConstanze -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 4:38:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HollywoodExecDom


I've worked with the obese. I've looked at the science.

Yes, the question of why some people are naturally skinny and why some people, try as they might, will always be 20-40 lbs above optimal weight is very complex. (so called overweight but under the term mild obesity)


What is not complex....

You get obese due to poor nutrition and inactivity. Period. Proven simple science. You eat the wrong foods in the wrong quantities without enough exercise or metabolism boosting activities to handle it, you'll get obese.

Stop making excuses for it.




Look, I am in no way obese, but I find that a very simplistic approach:

- Anti-depressants make people gain weight, a lot of weight
- Hormonal issues
- Hypothyroid (as a teen I gained almost 40 lbs from a malfunctioning thyroid, I starved myself and still gained weight)
- Cortisone in high doses as an anti-inflammatory

I agree with you that when you eat more than you burn, you gain weight, simple, but that doesn't go for everybody and the people who have other issues that make them gain weight and they can't shift it feel horrible enough. I tried to slit my wrists because I was starving myself and still gaining weight and before somebody decided that I should get checked for thyroid, they told me I must be undisciplined, overeating and lazy... Ho hum



HollywoodExecDom -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 4:38:53 PM)

quote:

antidepressants ... thyroid issues, hormonal issues in general can cause problems


Good point LadyConstanze. I do want to point out thyroid disorders and underlying issues can be contributing factors to the more simple equation I laid out. But that raises the point... If you are obese, get tested for thyroid disorder and hormonal problems, and request these tests as part of regular check ups.

Nevertheless, if you have these problems, there is medicine that will fix it. If you don't, it's not an excuse. Everyone adds weight at some point in their life... I added 25 lbs due to injury and maintaining my same eating habits while doing less activity.

And that's fine.

Healthful for 5'3" extends from 110lbs to 140lbs, while mild to moderately overweight extends to around 150-155lbs. And "acceptable" Body Fat extends as high as 31% for women.

If you fall into the high range of that, it could in fact be genetic factors, many of which are curable through medication (thyroid for example).

If you're beyond that, chances are, you need to face yourself and realize "I might have a serious health problem if I continue to carry out my current lifestyle."

I would like to hear from anyone who currently works out at least 5 hours a week at a gym for a period of more than a year and falls into the "Obese category," of BMI. Anyone??? Anyone? Bueller?



LadyConstanze -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 4:45:03 PM)

There is an issue though, I do know that in some places thyroid disorders are not taking seriously unless the levels are so drastic that other countries just shake their heads about it... The UK for example, I'm living with 10% of my thyroid glands and I have to go to Germany or France to get a proper checkup and medication, they do not do T3 testing here and only if your TSH is over 10.0 the docs are allowed to diagnose it. I know I got the condition and I can afford to go abroad, how many people can't?



hopelessfool -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 4:51:17 PM)

i have had two sodas in the last YEAR.
liquid calories equal at most 100 of the calories i have a day
the last time i had fast food was when i got so violently ill from eating it i need to go to the hospital, again over a year ago. I eat a moderate amount of sweets now and again and most of them are low fat low calorie sweets. I walk a mile a day as well as visit the treadmill for a nice jog and lift weights...  so i would say i spend at least 7 hours a week doing planned exercising. this does not include me going to the mall and walking around it for hours on end or any other activity while being at work... but i would say 20 hours a week are spent active and keeping my heart rate up.. and guess what sunshine im still fat.. im still overweight.. im 263 pounds at 5'6



YourhandMyAss -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 4:52:05 PM)

Good thing then those of us that are content with ourselves  don't need your empathy then huh.
quote:

ORIGINAL: HollywoodExecDom


I do NOT have empathy, however, for those who are CONTENT with being even moderately overweight or aren't in the process of doing anything about it.






GYPZYQUEEN -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 4:54:29 PM)

 no  BDSM ers are not any different than
 
teachers ..cowboys..surfers..crafters..hunters..travellors...
councellors..golfers..cavers..fishermen..artists.......because

 they are HUMAN

therefore SOME have preferences..prejudices..rudeness...and narrowness ...low tolerance or concern....like anyone else..might
 
I must say though from personal experience on here...most young men like it that I am BBW...not just that only but I would suppose with  other combined aspects as well....as a mommy DOMME/the ability to overpower .....
this then attracts a certain type which desires the size aspect.

GQ



antipode -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 4:56:05 PM)

quote:

discrimination against larger size people


Depends... personally, if they don't list their weight and post pictures with those weird camera angles, I don't get overly excited. And I do not know if you would term this discrimination, I know wonderful overweight folks, but from the perspective of a closer relationship, if she has to fly standby I am not interested.



YourhandMyAss -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 4:58:05 PM)

Stand by does notusually have anything to do w/ith how fat you are, or are not, but if there's seats to seat you. Now I suppose if you're so fat you need 2 or 3 seats, and there just isn't any more seat room on the plain, then yes you'll have to fly standby.
quote:

ORIGINAL: antipode

quote:

discrimination against larger size people


Depends... personally, if they don't list their weight and post pictures with those weird camera angles, I don't get overly excited. And I do not know if you would term this discrimination, I know wonderful overweight folks, but from the perspective of a closer relationship, if she has to fly standby I am not interested.




HollywoodExecDom -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 5:16:17 PM)

quote:

I tried to slit my wrists because I was starving myself and still gaining weight and before somebody decided that I should get checked for thyroid, they told me I must be undisciplined, overeating and lazy... Ho hum


Yeah, that sounds like a pretty severe thyroid problem.

I generally assume if someone is obese, they have at least had their doctor check for thryoid or other hormonal dysfunction. And let me just make the point, there are medical discussed incidents of thyroid suffers who don't respond very well only to Synthroid (or other synthetic T4 Thryoid Hormone) and still have trouble losing weight despite being medicated (though likely not as much trouble.) In those cases, (or for that matter in general with a hypothyroid obese patients), you should also be treated with Cytomel or other form of T3 form of Thyroid Hormone.

T3 is a very powerful weight loss hormone.

Point being, if you are obese and haven't seen a specialist in obesity medicine or at the very least an endocrinologist (they most often are one in the same), don't be saying that obesity is something you have no control of.

Let me also make a very important point based on what you said abotu starving yourself...

You need to eat to lose weight

Nutritional science shows that starving yourself is counter productive. It may seem counter intuitive, but eating, correctly, allows you to lose weight. Starvation and extreme calorie restriction (i.e. beyond what is recommended for maintaining a healthy weight) is counter productive for the following reasons:

1) Your body reduces its metabolism because of the lack of food needed to burn off.

2) You body starts metabolizing muscle rather than fat when you stop eating, meaning you make it harder on yourself to lose fat and maintain vigorous exercise in the future.

3) You generally will just increase your body's cravings for simple sugars (sweets, breads, etc) when you don't eat.

4) Your body loses much of the minerals, vitamins, glycogen etc. that it needs, so you become fatigued and even more inactive, sometimes without even realizing it.



Andalusite -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 5:18:07 PM)

Yup, I had to change my flight time at the last moment, and was put on standby for the earlier flight that I wanted to switch to. If they hadn't had a seat for me, I would have had to take the next flight. I'm a 5/6 Petite in most clothes, with occasional forays into the girl's department, so really it has nothing to do with weight. Perhaps antipode is confusing it with some airlines charging some people for two seats, if they are over a certain weight?

HollywoodExec, I know one person who had been running marathons, who was laid up with an injury. In spite of eating carefully, and getting as much exercise as possible as he recovered, he quickly became quite overweight, and remained so until he was able to get back into marathon training. I also went to school with a Samoan girl who was quite large (probably not technically obese, but very curvaceous as well as tall/muscular). She was an all-star athlete in every sport she pursued, including basketball, track (sprints, jumps, shotput, etc.), volleyball, and so forth. Personally, I've had the opposite problem, and quickly become frighteningly underweight if I get stressed out, sick, or the weather is hot, even if I'm not noticeably exercising more or eating less. The bacteria in the gut change food utilisation quite dramatically, according to some studies I've seen.

Even when I've been a perfectly healthy weight for my frame (well within normal BMI, body fat, and any other rational standards), some people have given me really nasty digs about being too fat, too skinny, or both within the same 15 minute period - it's quite annoying having a group of people arguing about one's weight! I know so many women who've ruined their metabolism by trying to lose 10-15 pounds, putting their body into starvation mode by eating too few calories. Then, the weight pours on as soon as they relax their diet a bit, and they yo-yo back and forth, or, they still see themselves as too fat even when they're quite skinny, or a perfectly reasonable weight.

If a guy is running around making digs at the fat or skinny chicks, I won't date him on general principle. I don't want to be with someone who is mean and rude like that. Of course, he needn't be attracted to them, but proclaiming it so loudly and visciously is just uncalled for.



RedMagic1 -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 5:26:48 PM)

HollywoodExecDom, as you are up on the science of weight loss and fitness, I am sure you are aware of the concept of "periodization" -- that if someone repeats a similar physical activity for 2 or more weeks, the body does its best to stop losing weight because of that activity.  So you have to change what you're doing periodically, or you plateau.  This wasn't general knowledge among non-elite trainers until the Body Sculpting series made it big, less than ten years ago.  So people can spend a ton of time working out, and it's good for their heart, but their body won't look any different.

It's an error to connect a person's worth as a human being with their body type.  You have no idea what that person's gone through to look as they do.  In terms of sexual attraction, I find muscles exciting.  But in terms of people I care about, and most respect, a lot of them are too busy taking care of others to spend time working on their abs.



LadyConstanze -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 5:31:49 PM)

HollywoodExecDom, I'm aware of the yoyo effect and nutrition and all that, a lot of people aren't and if they are having a medical issue, the weight gain will really make it worse for them to see the wood from the trees. And if you're 14 years old and you deal with adolescence, then boom, your weight just jumps up and you're confused, depressed, have no answers, all you think is that you do need to stop eating...

Personally I am not a fan of calorie counting at all, I think the right food (i.e. healthy food and not ready meals or junk food) is far more important, in case you have no other medical issues for the weight gain but overeating, then quick diets won't help, you gain back, changing your life-style is an issue.

Another problem is not all doctors are clued up, not all countries will recognize thyroid issues... I'm willing to bet money on the fact that a lot of people with thyroid issues (mainly women) are not treated or treated for the various symptoms but not the cause...

One point you haven't made and that is very important is that people who are obese and lose too much weight too quick literally poison themselves, a lot of the stuff we ingest and that is essentially poisonous is stored in our fat cells, by emptying them too fast (I think if not fed they disappear within 7 years but not 100% sure on that) you release all those poisons into your bloodstream.

And if you stop eating, your body often will start burning off the muscle first instead of the fat, meaning you lose even more muscle mass and your metabolism drops off even faster.



HollywoodExecDom -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 6:04:56 PM)

LadyConstanze... I wasn't aware it was so difficult to get medical help for Thyroid in Britain.

Most doctors don't do T3 testing, even in the states. I war with doctors constantly over it. Here in the states, the upside and downside to a patchwork system of medical care, is that different doctors treat things radically different.

There is actually a vocal minority of doctors who are embracing the theory of subclinical thyroid disorders - basically disorders that don't show up in tests, because of issues of thyroid uptake etc. As of right now, its not even medical orthodoxy to acknowledge that there is a definite advantage to prescribing both T3 and T4 versus just T4 - which in some cases is just ridiculous.

hopelessfool ... Have you seen a doctor regarding your obesity? Any diagnosis? Particularly... why did you got violently ill from fast food?? Do you have frequent gastric distrubances? That fact partly suggests the possibility of some from of cortisol imabalance, possibly Cushing Syndrome, which would explain the inability to lose weight. You ever get checked for this?

I'll admit, you have me slightly stumped.

I also have to ask about " I eat a moderate amount of sweets now and again and most of them are low fat low calorie sweets." How often and how many? Low calorie is good, but low fat tends to be somewhat meaningless, as the fat is counted in the calorie count. I'll reserve more commentary till I know more?

I generally find that with those other factors ruled out, you don't need to resort to this question, but you may have proven the exception: You do a calorie count? What do you come out to?

Not that there aren't genetic curve balls when it comes to weight... But I'm still thinking that there is something treatable or changeable you haven't found out yet that is underlying this because its very abnormal for someone to weigh 263 at 5'6" doing what it sounds you are doing. I'm a bit skeptical.

Still, you can always cite the examples of certain Native American tribes who suffer from chronic obesity, but then return to more healthful weight levels once returned to traditional diets as an example of often convoluted role of nutrition versus genetics.



LadyConstanze -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 6:21:43 PM)

HollywoodExecDom, I was stunned too when I moved over here 3 years ago, nowhere else in the world including Australia, the US, and some countries in Europe have I ever encountered it....

Though one problem in the US could be the level of your health insurance, some people might not have enough money to get checked out because your insurance will only cover certain doctors and they don't do that...

Actually in Germany they first test for TSH and T3 before they actually look at the T4, which seems a fairly reasonable approach, since T3 is what your body actually needs, you can have the latent T4 in spades, if your body can't change it to T3, how will you know without testing for it? Some people don't react to synthetic replacements and docs are leary to give T3 for the obvious reasons of steady monitoring is needed and because it is so much harder to get right and not cause other health problems, but some people do react quite well to Armour, but it can cause religious problems because I think part of the ingredient is the natural thyroid hormone from pigs?

I was at war with the doctors here too, one snapped at me "I'm the doctor" when I insisted on seeing and endocrinologist, I just snapped back "So am I, I'm one for literature and you're a GP, we can assume we are both not thyroid specialists, I would prefer to see one!"




hopelessfool -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 6:27:42 PM)

I have been tested for everything under the sun to figure out why. even with a radical doctor treatment. My PCP even had me on an 800 calorie a day liquid diet for 3 months. i went from being 210 to 260 in this time period. They cant figure it out and i personally gave up on them trying to figure it. i keep a count and usually stick between 1500 and the recommended 2000 more closer to the 1500. However when im in a depressed mood i tend to work out less and sleep more, however i adjust what i eat and the calorie intake to what it is im going to be doing. If i know a depression spell is coming i slowly (as to not shock the system) decrease the calories to even out how active i am. i eat several small snacks/meals a day. i dont eat much food with fat its mostly very lean meats.

As for low fat snacks, its mostly self made food via cook books or internet recipies so the calorie counts arent exact but no meal or snack is ever above 300 calories total with drink



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