RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (Full Version)

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HollywoodExecDom -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 6:30:11 PM)

LadyConstanze

I didn't mention possible toxicity of extreme weight loss because its generally unlikely that the average overweight person would drop weight so fast as for it to be medically harmful unless they are partaking in already harmful behavior - such as starvation coupled with extreme exercise - and as I said, you need to eat in order to lose weight.

Pretty much any obese person can safely and healthly lose up to 5 lbs a week. Obviously, with greater size, you can lose more... but if you lose to much too quickly, you are probably doing a diservice to your long term weight loss objective.

Anything above 10-15lbs (depending on starting weight) should involve medical supervision.

RedMagic1 I'm familiar with "periodization." There is a lot of different questions about what qualifies under the "periodization." Eventually your body does adapt and you see diminishing returns from certain exercise - but there are questions of what best to cycle in to make it so you get the maximum result.

Most good personal trainers are familiar with this idea, that's why I highly recommend people who are obese to spend the money on one. (which I recommended earlier)

But sure, if you run everday, the rate of fat loss will decline overtime because periodization. But there are questions of what is best to swap it out for - a different activity like swimming? day of rest? etc.

This is also the idea behind doing different muscle groups when training.

If I was to devise an exercise routine for someone who is overweight....

1) 30 min Cardio in the morning - 5 days on, 2 days off and then allow yourself a week off every two months. (adding periodization to it, jog for 3 minutes, sprint for 1 min (approx), for the entire time.)

2) 1 hr Weight training in the evenings, every other day, cycling through the different muscle groups.

3) Some sort of dynamic activity / sport 2 times a week - soccer, basketball, boxing, kung fu, tennis, dance - basically something that pushes someone but has starts and stops.

And then maybe yoga to 2 times a week just to add some stretching to the mix and improve recovery times, etc.




numuncular -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 6:35:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HollywoodExecDom


Anything above 10-15lbs (depending on starting weight) should involve medical supervision.




its almost physically impossible to lose more than 5lbs of fat in a week!



LadyConstanze -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 6:41:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: numuncular

quote:

ORIGINAL: HollywoodExecDom


Anything above 10-15lbs (depending on starting weight) should involve medical supervision.




its almost physically impossible to lose more than 5lbs of fat in a week!



I wouldn't say so, if I get sick or stop eating (not on purpose but if a close friend or a family member dies, I just can't force anything down) I lose a hell lot more than 5 lbs a week, it just seems to melt off and leaves me looking haggard and sick.



HollywoodExecDom -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 6:51:23 PM)

hopelessfool

This sounds profoundly curious. Clearly, you're eating at almost bare subsistence at 800 calories, and shouldn't be gaining weight at 1500. I strongly suspect something medically is up. I do have a lot of sympathy for people in your shoes, because clearly you're trying to do something about it. (which was my point all along if you look back)

You clearly have multiple signs of cortisol disfunction - periodic depression, gastric disturbance to fast food, weight gain... But for that matter, it also strongly sounds like it could be hypothyroidism with the depression spells and weight gain as well.

I strongly recommend you do a lot of research into both and request your medical records to find out what things were tested for - because that isn't normal at all.

Furthermore, I think you'll find that in the area of obesity, you'll find you can go to 10 doctors before finding one who will figure out your unique situation... but if you research all the possibilities, you can hone that searching considerably.

quote:

n spite of eating carefully, and getting as much exercise as possible as he recovered, he quickly became quite overweight, and remained so until he was able to get back into marathon training. I also went to school with a Samoan girl who was quite large (probably not technically obese, but very curvaceous as well as tall/muscular).


But the fact is, he isn't overweight now... Marathon training is fairly severe - but it generally isn't more than an hour a day. So I do want to point out, it can be done. Just most people don't want to put in 5-7 hours of strenuous exercise in a week.

Secondly, your Somoan friend doesn't sound OBESE. There is a very specific definition of obese versus overweight. Overweight, as I said, can be entirely due to genetics. Obesity is much more severe and usually involve a combination of factors within one's control.

Believe me, no one wants to be on kidney dialysis if their kidneys fail, but they put the time in to be on the dialysis machine. Similarly, no one wants to be obese, but if you are, you need to put the time, energy and effort into dealing with your medically life threatening condition - and unfortunately, it can be extremely time consuming.







CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 7:02:48 PM)

HollywoodExecDom,

I am another anomaly in your bag. I have a congenital autoimmune disorder that causes neurological problems and severe neurodermatitis. Treatment for this is comprised of a variety of immune suppressants including oral cortisone.

I do drink soda. I have a can a day, and get to choose between Zevia (stevia sweetened) and Oogave (low glycemic index agave sweetened). The Oogave has 68 calories in 12 oz. My program also includes 3 glasses of granache or shiraz (red only) per week. I am not allowed to drink beer, as it contains wheat, which I cannot tolerate.

For the same reason, I can't eat fast food, and can't eat at most restaurants outside the house. I am gluten sensitive, and soy allergic, which cuts out most fast food (even salads, as most of the dressings have gluten, and have some kind of crouton/crisp on them which is full of gluten and/or soy. When we do eat out, there are three restaurants in the area that serve raw foods, or local, fresh foods that I am able to eat. We eat there about once every other month, as they're definitely NOT cheap.

Desserts/sweets are incorporated into the nutritional plan developed by my cardiologist's nutritionist. They are comprised mostly of fruits, nuts, and seeds, and there is no refined sugar or grain included. I am on 1400 calories per day, gluten/grain free, 30-40% raw. I am not vegetarian, but the program I'm on averages out to about 3 oz of meat a day, and 5 oz of fish.

I am on an exercise program designed by my physical therapist, meant to improve my chances of retaining as much of my remaining mobility as possible. It focuses on mild cardio (primarily swimming and walking), as I have a collapsible atria caused by chemo, and includes gentle strength training (over-exercising increases the neurological decay and getting overheated can cause my muscles to just stop working and leave me in a nasty little heap on the gym floor). It also includes stretching and balance training (as the neuro problems result in spasticity and balance problems). I spend 1-1.5 hours per day doing my PT routine, under the supervision of either my PT or a certified therapeutic trainer.

Other information that makes a difference: I am on immune suppressants including oral prednisone, have been since I was 22, and will be for the rest of my life.

I also have myocardial damage from chemotherapy that required cardiac reconstruction 2 years ago (bracing of the R atria due to myocardial degeneration).

I weigh 270 lbs and am 5'4" tall. My cholesterol (total) is 167. HDL is 62. LDL is 81. Triglicerides are 132. LDL/HDL Ratio is 1.3:1. I consistently gain 6-8 lbs per year, regardless of activity/food, which my doctor says is related to the steroids and autoimmune drugs.

Also, I garden, all of our food at home is hand-prepared. Less than 20% of what we eat is packaged (canned), and much of that is stuff we canned ourselves. The rest is either fresh and raw, or frozen.






SlaveBlutarsky -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 7:50:35 PM)

quote:

u
quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

That does not give any body the right to try to shame others for their bodies, or their weight. And if  it does, then  by the same mind set,  we  fat ones have equal right to try to  attempt to shame others for being unhealthy.
quote:

ORIGINAL: SlaveBlutarsky


Regarding the initial topic, why should a group be more accepting to size? obesity is by far the most dangerous thing in this country right now and shouldn't be applauded or accepted.






I agree, just because someone is obese it doesn't give people the right to shame or mock them. I know it's very difficult for a lot of people to loss weight and it takes a great toll on them emotionally.

I'm a big guy, I could easily drop 80 pounds according to my doctor, but I'm very healthy for my size. Every year for my physical he wants to be able to yell at me about my weight but can't because of the fact that my blood work comes up stellar for things like cholesterol, bp, heart rate, glucose etc.

My comment above came from a public health/policy standpoint. Before I went back to school (for public policy), I worked as a consultant to hospitals and healthcare systems. The costs and affects associated with obesity are mind boggling. 

Both the mortality and costs associated with obesity related health problems are greater than any of the crap we get inundated with combined. Swine flu? Terrorism? All these media created boogeymen are blips on the radar to what's immediately in front of us and very correctable.



AlexandraLynch -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 7:55:27 PM)

I am thinking I need to talk to my doctor about T3 supplementation, as I'm at the point with the T4 that if I take any more I start having heart palpitations, but my weight isn't moving a bit even with good pain control (I have fibromyalgia.) When my pain is under control, I don't sit down much; I'm too damn busy doing things, most of which involve walking about and moving a lot.

I give myself a soda a day (I drink it instead of coffee in the morning) and drink unsweetened tea and water most of the time, and I drink a lot of it because I have dry mouth. Foodwise, I'm still walking myself carefully back from bulemia and some pretty disordered eating patterns during pregnancy, and it's not helped by having IBS and fructose intolerance. On the other hand, I don't eat much prepackaged food. (grin) I've got the binges down to eating a second sandwich at a time, which I consider to be serious progress. I'll consider non-physically dictated food restrictions when I know it won't make me binge.

What's really important to me is being happy on a daily basis with the strength and flexibility of my body. I don't own a scale. I don't measure on a regular basis. In my particular case, it's not healthy for me to do so. It took me a great deal of psychological effort, and still does some days, to be able to log my food for IBS symptom control and not evaluate it for total calorie count.



numuncular -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 8:05:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze


quote:

ORIGINAL: numuncular

quote:

ORIGINAL: HollywoodExecDom


Anything above 10-15lbs (depending on starting weight) should involve medical supervision.




its almost physically impossible to lose more than 5lbs of fat in a week!



I wouldn't say so, if I get sick or stop eating (not on purpose but if a close friend or a family member dies, I just can't force anything down) I lose a hell lot more than 5 lbs a week, it just seems to melt off and leaves me looking haggard and sick.


first week yeah, but most of that will be you losing fluids because your body is metabolising the glycogen stored in your body into glucose, which requires a lot (and I mean a lot!) of water too, 1lb of fat is roughly equal to 3000 calories so to lose say, 7lbs in a week and eating 1000 kcal of food you'd have to burning 4000+ kcal a day! or roughly speaking double the normal energy expenditure for a woman,
after about 10-14 days most peoples glycogen stores will be depleted and they'll be losing far less fluid (but far more fat), hence the slowdown



DesFIP -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 8:32:25 PM)

There seems to be more older folks here than younger, and with age comes weight gain. Metabolism simply slows down a lot at 50 or 60 compared to a 20 year old. A heavier 50 year old man is more likely to be accepting of a heavier 50 year old woman than a thin 20 year old woman accepting of a heavier 20 year old man.



LadyConstanze -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 8:39:50 PM)

I have a pretty fast metabolism due to being rather active, I'd say if i have less than 20 hours physical exercise a week (without counting stuff like kick boxing or going to the gym), I'm feeling edgy, I inline skate as a method of transport (gets me from point A to B really quick) if I can't take the skates I take the bike, stairs instead of lifts, my Sunday is usually just full with physical activity, mornings are cycling (need the carrier on the bike for the way back) a few miles to a car boot sale and rummaging around, then to a farmers market to get fresh fruit and veg, lunch break, then off to visit friends, borrow their dog and spend the rest of the day "walking him out" (the owners love that, he's always so quiet on Monday), it's not so much the exercise that keeps the weight off (and I do eat A LOT), it's what it does to my metabolism, so if I stop feeding the machine, it starts burning itself.

I think what most people do wrong when they approach sports for weight loss is pick some sport that doesn't appeal, so it's a chore and not fun, pick something that's fun and you keep at it because it doesn't seem like work.



SlaveBlutarsky -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 8:40:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

There seems to be more older folks here than younger, and with age comes weight gain. Metabolism simply slows down a lot at 50 or 60 compared to a 20 year old. A heavier 50 year old man is more likely to be accepting of a heavier 50 year old woman than a thin 20 year old woman accepting of a heavier 20 year old man.


hell, my metabolism shut down on my 25th birthday.




LadyConstanze -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 8:42:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

There seems to be more older folks here than younger, and with age comes weight gain. Metabolism simply slows down a lot at 50 or 60 compared to a 20 year old. A heavier 50 year old man is more likely to be accepting of a heavier 50 year old woman than a thin 20 year old woman accepting of a heavier 20 year old man.


I think a lot of the metabolism slowing down and the so called middle age spread is due to people being less active, they settle down, kids are out of the house, less reason to actually "do" something, same food intake, you'll gain weight.



TaoWoman -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 9:20:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlaveBlutarsky



obesity is by far the most dangerous thing in this country right now and shouldn't be applauded or accepted.





Exactly!



Andalusite -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 9:43:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: numuncular
first week yeah, but most of that will be you losing fluids because your body is metabolising the glycogen stored in your body into glucose, which requires a lot (and I mean a lot!) of water too, 1lb of fat is roughly equal to 3000 calories so to lose say, 7lbs in a week and eating 1000 kcal of food you'd have to burning 4000+ kcal a day! or roughly speaking double the normal energy expenditure for a woman, after about 10-14 days most peoples glycogen stores will be depleted and they'll be losing far less fluid (but far more fat), hence the slowdown

I've gone from 129 to 110 pounds in a month, and from 125 to 111 in three weeks, which is just a smidge under 5 pounds per week. It took almost a year to put the weight back on in both cases, so it wasn't just fluid loss. I usually try to stay above 130 to avoid getting quite that thin, and I've lost 1/2-3/4 pound per day several other times (in a shorter period of time, usually, but still taking an extended time to put back on). The most dramatic was last July, at one of my gymnastics meets. I lost 11 pounds in 4 days. Granted, I was getting about 6 hours of intense exercise in, and it was hot, which reduced my appetite, but I was still eating frequently, though healthy snacks rather than meals. I couldn't manage to eat more than a few bites at a time, but a half hour later, I'd have a bit more. Again, it took about 6 months to deliberately put the weight back on to get back over 130.

HollywoodExec, she falls within the "obese" area on the BMI charts, but I agree that they tend to be inaccurate for muscular people. In any case, even if you are correct that people should do more about their weight (and smoking, and drinking, and so forth), I think that many people approach it in a really mean, counterproductive way. At any rate, I've had a lot of experiences with people who are nasty about my weight, and other's weight (more often from women than men, though I've had a few guys tell me that they wouldn't date me unless I was under 100 pounds, or over 170 pounds. I'd be extremely unhealthy in either situation, even if I were willing to change that for them, which I was not).

LadyConstanze, exactly, in fact people should pick two or three things with a mix of indoor/outdoor, and different time possibilities, and which work different muscle groups/etc. That reduces the likelihood of plateauing, that RedMagic was talking about, and makes it easier to keep going when it's raining or they're busy.



darklight17 -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 9:50:40 PM)

In regards to the OP- I don't think it's wise to group individuals' opinions, period. What good do these stereotypes of perception do for you? One person might think it's okay, and as we see here, another doesn't. I think BDSM people might share something that they feel is more uniting; therefore they are more polite about it.

In regards to weight loss...Green Tea pills! I didn't stop shaking for a week after one dose. If you think about shaking all day, you will realize that crack addicts have great abs. Green tea is like crack.

I totally don't condone those, just to clarify.



Fadingthought -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/14/2009 10:59:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HollywoodExecDom


Pretty much any obese person can safely and healthly lose up to 5 lbs a week. Obviously, with greater size, you can lose more... but if you lose to much too quickly, you are probably doing a diservice to your long term weight loss objective.

Anything above 10-15lbs (depending on starting weight) should involve medical supervision.



A pound of fat is 3500 calories, assuming no muscle gain, to lose 5 pounds a week you'd need a calorie deficiency of 2500 calories a day.
That is wildly dangerous, it will likely put your body in starvation mode and will be counterproductive to real weight loss.
Barring health and other barriers, simply eating a little less and working out a little more will make you lose weight and keep it off.
People don't put it on overnight and they don't lose it overnight either.






MissJanice2 -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/15/2009 6:04:06 AM)

I would say yes because we are more interested in how a sub behaves.  Nothing wrong with eye candy, but I had rather train a sincere sub than a self-centered one.
 
Best Wishes,
 
Mistress_Jan



barelynangel -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/15/2009 6:17:49 AM)

GENERAL REPLY -- i only read through page 2 so far.

Sorry folks but the excuse of its a medical issue ONLY applies to a VERY SMALL percentage of people. I also think a lot of these "illnesses" people claim are also advocated simply because they make companies money and give people excuses in their lives and actually a VERY SMALL number of people actually have the illnesses that seem to have become crutches in our society. BUt then again, our society has become full of excuses and it shows. Also, its amazing when people actually start eating healthy and exercising how the FAT DOES come off. The other issue is people want to DIET not make lifestyle changes because damnit we want what we like and we are going to eat it and i will blame my weight on all these other things.

IF you really look at people who for years have said well i can't lose weight because of A, B, or C, i have TRIED diets, i have TRIED to eat healthy and then you look at what the are doing NOW -- not eating healthy not exercising not doing things that will get them moving and eating correctly -- sorry but to me a medical reason is NO REASON to not change your lifestyle TO EAT HEALTHY, to exercise etc. And most overweight people who claim medical issues think that is a license to NOT TRY and so they eat like crap, they don't exercise etc. Then you put them on a healthy diet and exercise and OMG it drops off -- maybe not all at once but it does.

This country doesn't have an obesity problem because of medical issues, this country has an obesity problem because people want instant gratification, they want to eat what they like versus eating what they should, they don't move, they live to eat rather than eat to live, they sit in their houses and wish for things instead of getting up and doing things, they make excuses and then lobby for the general consensus to be nice to them and make excuses for them, they rely on PC to help them hide from the truth of their CHOICES and the results, and they rely on PC to allow them to look away from their own responsibility for their issues -- many times even medical issues are because people are overweight and its not they are overweight because of the medical issues.

THERE ARE SOME i repeat SOME where the reasons ARE legitimate, but those are the exception NOT the rule. But it seems the rule has decided to jump on the bandwagon of the exception because its easier to use than to face the truth.

Right now I am overweight and out of shape, its HARD to do what i should be versus doing what i want. ITS HARD changing bad habits into good ones, its HARD making time to exercise and its easy to make excuses because the excuses allow me istant gratification, it allows me to be lazy, it allows me to eat more of what i LIKE versus what i would rather not have etc. So i am not some inshape woman who is speaking about something i don't know. I think BBW is the most excuse concept making aspect of obesity. TO me, if you are beautiful you shouldn't have to make it about your size. So to me people who use BBW are not as accepting of their "beauty" as they would like people to think. Most beautiful people would simply say -- i am a beautiful woman. No need to point out specific things about them, i mean you don't see beautiful people running around saying -- i am a TBW -- tall beautiful woman, i am a PBW, profile beautiful woman, you don't see FBW -- face beautiful woman, and more importantly you don't see SBW -- skinny/slim beautiful woman, you don't see ISBW -- in shape beautiful woman etc. So for those who tend to thrust out BBW whether you are or use it for others, you may want to really look at why you feel the need. BBW doesn't seem to be for the masses -- it seems to be for the fat women who use it. Most beautiful people and those who see them as beautiful don't need to say they are anything but beautiful.

I don't know the solution to the issue of obesity, but i do know the majority is NOT because they can't, its because they don't or won't. This country makes excuses for a lot of things, and obesity is just another one of them.

angel



oceanwinds -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/15/2009 6:25:55 AM)

Acceptance of size is found in any area, as is non-acceptance. BDSMers are not magically better at everything.

There is personal taste as well, i cannot serve someone who is overweight sexually and that is my extent of that, since it doesnt matter to me if friends are overweight or not.

Meds can put a lot of weight on a person, and have personally experience this when I was on them. At this time in my life, i got off all my meds and am using exercise and watching my sugar in take, so i can keep my self somewhat in balance emotionally. If i am feeling more anxious on a day, i will exercise more, sometimes to the point of exhaustion. Since being off meds I have also discovered what foods trigger anxiety, depression etc. in me, and take responsibility for it. I will never get back to the weight i was in my teens and twenties. Weighing 98 -100 pds now would look horrible on me anyways, at the age of 58.



frankieboy52 -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/15/2009 6:40:23 AM)

i would have to say i am more accepting of a heavy person but then again as i once said to a person i know..i am not shallow..but i ain't that deep either.sooner or later even if the person accepts you as is..a time will come when weight will be an issue and more so from a health standpoint.Overall i agree with almost everyone here,most people want firm bodies..it is their fantasy to have the ripped muscleman slave boy or the leather wearing stiletto adorned female Domina with a whip in her hand with the body of Denise Austin and an evil mind.i would think most europeans don't have weight issues because they don't overeat like we Americans nor do they consume have the crap we do if at all.



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