RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance?

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SlaveBlutarsky -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/16/2009 12:25:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hopelessfool Should i point out now that its only in the last 20 years that people actually look into what they eat. Previous generations filled their children with saturated fat and other nasty things like pesticides for their bodies. Its why so many 40 and 50 year olds have heart problems be them fat or thin. Heart Disease is mostly caused by plaque build up from eating saturated fat like butter, whole milk, and animal fat. I hardly consume ANY of them there for my diet is rather good for my weight. Now a days people eat more healthy in a larger consensus then 50 years ago. Fast food while loaded with calories, is no longer filled with as much saturated fat. And The diet my thin older relatives eat is well beyond disgusting. A meal that is more then 70% cooked in lard, no matter how fucking skinny your are ISNT healthy. Don't take this the wrong way, but please stop posting on this thread. Much of this post is just completely wrong and part of the problem. Everyone can throw out all the anecdotal examples they want, and I'm sure a bunch of people will latch on to them as fact to make themselves feel better, but it doesn't help anyone and only reinforces bad/wrong information.

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/16/2009 12:38:27 PM)
Davan and SB, thank you for the information. I'll need to do a PubMed now and get the particulars on how these studies were conducted, what co-morbidities were involved, if any, and what criteria were used to determine obesity (considering that BMI is not considered accurate (at least not by midwives) as a measure for pregnant women). I'd also like to compare outcomes between WNL-weight women and ENL-weight women with similar co-morbidities, ages, etc. This is very interesting, as in a quarter century of activity in free-birthing, home-birthing, and homeopathic/naturopathic communities, this hasn't ever come up. I'm curious about why this pattern doesn't manifest in the alt-birth community, though, to be fair most of the alt-birth moms are really hyper-diligent about their nutrition, etc., even when they are obese, and the alt-birth community also doesn't see a lot of high-risk patients with co-morbidities complicating their pregnancies. I wonder if there are other factors, like the -kind- of foods consumed (insufficient fresh vegetables, fruits, whole grains; drug/hormone-laced meats; heavily processed frankenfoods) that may be contributing to this trend aside from singularly the obesity association. Midwives don't tend to see a lot of people who have really abysmal eating habits, and if we do, we have been trained to invest a singularly intense amount of time in re-training the individuals into how to eat properly, and how to be able to afford (since the clients we see who -are- poor eaters are often also financially limited) to choose fresh, local, organic foods. Dame Calla

SlaveBlutarsky -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/16/2009 12:47:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW I wonder if there are other factors, like the -kind- of foods consumed (insufficient fresh vegetables, fruits, whole grains; drug/hormone-laced meats; heavily processed frankenfoods) that may be contributing to this trend aside from singularly the obesity association. Well, this is the answer to pretty much all these questions. The reason why we're fat as a nation has less to do with how much we eat (although we eat too much) but what's in the food that we eat. One of the reasons I'm 'healthy' as a big guy is because I eat relatively natural and don't eat a lot of processed foods. There's a reason why a ton of other cultures eat like shit, according to the health and diet industries, and are perfectly healthy, similarly to why our parents and grandparents ate a lot of what we'd consider 'bad' foods and were healthier than us. In any diet and exercise regimen, diet is going a much more important factor in weight loss and the kind of foods you put in your body is much more important than the number of calories.

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/16/2009 1:02:42 PM)
quote: In any diet and exercise regimen, diet is going a much more important factor in weight loss and the kind of foods you put in your body is much more important than the number of calories. That's been a lot of my experience. I can attribute the fact that I am still walking, working full-time -and- running 2 off-time businesses, and out and busy from 4:30am to 10pm every day including weekends to the fact that I am -also- heavily vested in the locavore movement, alt-health, and the Weston A. Price society. Michael Pollan and Sally Fallon are my heroes. I learned to can, pickle, dehydrate, and freeze veggies and fruits at my momma's knee, from fruit picked when it was fully ripe, fully nutritious, from soil that was carefully tended (my poppy learned from a friend who was a Mennonite farmer). It has colored my experiences with food and nutrition my entire life, and, honestly, my 'city years', before I got involved in the locavore movement, were the unhealthiest years of my life, regardless of my congenital situation. Rather than castigating folks for making poor choices in a culture where practically everything you can buy in the grocery store is a poor choice, perhaps we need to re-think the whole idea of food in this rushed, unhappy, profit-driven culture. Dame Calla

DavanKael -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/16/2009 1:04:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW Davan and SB, thank you for the information. I'll need to do a PubMed now and get the particulars on how these studies were conducted, what co-morbidities were involved, if any, and what criteria were used to determine obesity (considering that BMI is not considered accurate (at least not by midwives) as a measure for pregnant women). I'd also like to compare outcomes between WNL-weight women and ENL-weight women with similar co-morbidities, ages, etc. This is very interesting, as in a quarter century of activity in free-birthing, home-birthing, and homeopathic/naturopathic communities, this hasn't ever come up. I'm curious about why this pattern doesn't manifest in the alt-birth community, though, to be fair most of the alt-birth moms are really hyper-diligent about their nutrition, etc., even when they are obese, and the alt-birth community also doesn't see a lot of high-risk patients with co-morbidities complicating their pregnancies. I wonder if there are other factors, like the -kind- of foods consumed (insufficient fresh vegetables, fruits, whole grains; drug/hormone-laced meats; heavily processed frankenfoods) that may be contributing to this trend aside from singularly the obesity association. Midwives don't tend to see a lot of people who have really abysmal eating habits, and if we do, we have been trained to invest a singularly intense amount of time in re-training the individuals into how to eat properly, and how to be able to afford (since the clients we see who -are- poor eaters are often also financially limited) to choose fresh, local, organic foods. Dame Calla You're welcome, CallaFirestormBW---- Certainly, checking the methodology to the studies makes a lot of sense as I am certain that some will prove to have far greater efficacy than others. It would make sense that the quality of foods consumes is substantially contributory to good health and as someone also interested in alt-health (In counseling, when people want to talk about alleviating depression, I try to cover lots of options including diet, exercise, sun exposure, etc., etc., etc. in addition to the 'magic' pills that so many folks just 'gotta have') and involved with patient care, I'd welcome the opportunity to discuss your theories and thoughts. :> Feel free to cmail me, if you'd like. Davan

DavanKael -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/16/2009 1:07:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW quote: In any diet and exercise regimen, diet is going a much more important factor in weight loss and the kind of foods you put in your body is much more important than the number of calories. That's been a lot of my experience. I can attribute the fact that I am still walking, working full-time -and- running 2 off-time businesses, and out and busy from 4:30am to 10pm every day including weekends to the fact that I am -also- heavily vested in the locavore movement, alt-health, and the Weston A. Price society. Michael Pollan and Sally Fallon are my heroes. I learned to can, pickle, dehydrate, and freeze veggies and fruits at my momma's knee, from fruit picked when it was fully ripe, fully nutritious, from soil that was carefully tended (my poppy learned from a friend who was a Mennonite farmer). It has colored my experiences with food and nutrition my entire life, and, honestly, my 'city years', before I got involved in the locavore movement, were the unhealthiest years of my life, regardless of my congenital situation. Rather than castigating folks for making poor choices in a culture where practically everything you can buy in the grocery store is a poor choice, perhaps we need to re-think the whole idea of food in this rushed, unhappy, profit-driven culture. Dame Calla I would love to develop those skills and plan to look into local classes on canning and such. Our society in its oft-typical extremism turns obese people into pariahs yet enables the continuation of the unhealthy choices in so many ways. I would advocate a greater sense of personal responsibility: so often, when things aren't the way we want them to be, we need only look in the mirror to where the buck stops. Davan

Daddysredhead -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/16/2009 1:44:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 It's an error to connect a person's worth as a human being with their body type. You have no idea what that person's gone through to look as they do. In terms of sexual attraction, I find muscles exciting. But in terms of people I care about, and most respect, a lot of them are too busy taking care of others to spend time working on their abs. This was wonderful to read, RedMagic. To quote my Master, "Your size (whatever it is) does NOT define you." thank You, Daddy

Daddyluvsitrough -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/16/2009 2:19:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 quote: ORIGINAL: Daddyluvsitrough you try to compare weight issues to a race issue - people don't have any control over their skin color, but their weight is a different story. The point, though is that you don't know the medical history of the person you're looking at. For that matter, you don't know the race of the person you're looking at, either. Remember when Tiger Woods said he was Asian? Barack Obama could say that he's white. A friend of mine is very dark skinned, but she has white ancestors, and she practices Voudon, so she refuses to call herself "black" or "African American" because she believes that would be denying or disrespecting some of her ancestors, who are important in that religion. Your posts reek of a willingness to judge someone's interior by glancing at their exterior. That's a dangerous characteristic to possess. My post reeks of a willingness to judge someone's interior by their exterior? Please. I have plenty of fat friends that are wonderful people - that doesn't mean I'm sexually attracted to them, nor does it mean I'm seeking strictly the exterior of a person - what's wrong with wanting the whole enchilada of both a nice exterior AND interior? Why should I settle for less? And my 400 lb. friend on the plane consumed more food in a 4 hr flight than I do in 48 hours, so call it a hunch it had nothing to do with a medical condition. I'm just willing to come out and say that we are ALL shallow to some degree but some of us just won't admit it. Have you ever received a picture from a prospective Dom/sub and decided you weren't interested based on their appearance for whatever reason? Ever glanced at someone out in public and decided that you were not sexually attracted to them because of their appearance? What about someone with terrible hygiene, bad body odor, bad/missing teeth? Ever receive an email filled with poor spelling and poor grammar and decide that you don't find them attractive? Isn't that a shallow prejudice against stupid people? Isn't it shallow to not be interested in a vanilla person over the BDSM types? So who's to say that my criteria is shallow but yours isn't? If I send my picture to a woman, and she decides that she isn't physically attracted to me and doesn't write back .... should I stomp my foot and complain about how she's shallow? Or should I accept the fact that I am not what she's looking for and go on with my life? People are too overly sensitive to come to grips with the fact that physical attraction plays a key role for many people, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with admitting that. Would I prefer a) Someone who feigns interest in me just to be nice, acts interested in when they aren't, and drags me along for a few months or b) Someone who sends a "Thanks for the reply, but I'm just not interested". I'd pick B everytime because otherwise it's just a huge waste of time for both parties involved. The problem is that some people just can't handle rejection. It's human nature to judge - we all do it on some level and if you are the type that can fall head over heels for someone who is 500 lbs, missing an eye, only has 3 yellow teeth, never showers, and reads & writes on a 3rd grade level - well more power to you in that fantasy land! Everyone has their hot buttons of what makes them attracted to another person - the stereotype of women looking for "tall, dark and handsome" men is no different, and who am I to say that a woman shouldn't be interested in a man like that? The reality is it's just soooo un-PC of me to actually come out and admit that I'm not attracted to someone who's very overweight when I work hard to eat right & stay fit.

LovingMistress45 -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/16/2009 2:37:43 PM)
I don't find it un-pc of anyone to not be attracted to anyone based on an attribute. If someone is not physically/sexually attracted to me because of my weight I am perfectly fine with that. It is no different to me than a man that wants a tall woman or wants a burnette or wants dark skin, none of which are me. What I find shallow is the judging of someone based on their weight and making unkind comments. To all of you that think it is such a simple thing to change it, what I will say is I am sure not one of you has ever been extremely obese or you would not think it was so easy. As far as health issues - I know a lot of unhealthy thin/normal weight people.

lronitulstahp -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/16/2009 2:48:25 PM)
quote: The reality is it's just soooo un-PC of me to actually come out and admit that I'm not attracted to someone who's very overweight when I work hard to eat right & stay fit. The reality is, that wasn't your point earlier. So now you try to personalize it...fine. Here's the thing: nobody finds fault with you not being attracted to a certain body type. What people find problematic is the idea(presented by several people, and not singling you out) that overweight people are somehow beyond reproach, or deserving of maltreatment. Anyway, why do you feel a need to try to present your own opinions as though you're a sort of "Everyman"? It's no biggie what people here think of you, is it? Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.

Ialdabaoth -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/16/2009 3:02:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp The reality is, that wasn't your point earlier. So now you try to personalize it...fine. Here's the thing: nobody finds fault with you not being attracted to a certain body type. What people find problematic is the idea(presented by several people, and not singling you out) that overweight people are somehow beyond reproach, or deserving of maltreatment. I fail to see how 'deserve' ever enters into it, for anything. The reality is, overweight people are singled out for maltreatment, and as much as people try to do something about it, our culture acts as if that's perfectly fine. As individuals, we can say "it shouldn't be this way", but the reality of it is, our socially-constructed morality says that there's something wrong with fat people, just like it says there's something wrong with short people, just like it says there's something wrong with gay people, and just like it says there's something wrong with darker-skinned people. All distinctions are arbitrary, and yet without distinctions we couldn't get anywhere at all. And ultimately, it is all personal - and it's all a cost-benefit analysis. "How much effort will it take to change enough peoples' minds" vs. "How much effort will it take to change the outward signifiers that I belong to a certain declared-deviant group"? Everyone makes that choice for themselves, and some people are successful, and some people aren't. It's all just stuff that happens.

RedMagic1 -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/16/2009 3:08:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Daddyluvsitrough And my 400 lb. friend on the plane Does your "friend" know that you call him a "behemoth" behind his back on an international message board? Or is that a word you have used to his face, too?

lronitulstahp -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/16/2009 3:09:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth quote: ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp The reality is, that wasn't your point earlier. So now you try to personalize it...fine. Here's the thing: nobody finds fault with you not being attracted to a certain body type. What people find problematic is the idea(presented by several people, and not singling you out) that overweight people are somehow beyond reproach, or deserving of maltreatment. I fail to see how 'deserve' ever enters into it, for anything. The reality is, overweight people are singled out for maltreatment, and as much as people try to do something about it, our culture acts as if that's perfectly fine. As individuals, we can say "it shouldn't be this way", but the reality of it is, our socially-constructed morality says that there's something wrong with fat people, just like it says there's something wrong with short people, just like it says there's something wrong with gay people, and just like it says there's something wrong with darker-skinned people. All distinctions are arbitrary, and yet without distinctions we couldn't get anywhere at all. And ultimately, it is all personal - and it's all a cost-benefit analysis. "How much effort will it take to change enough peoples' minds" vs. "How much effort will it take to change the outward signifiers that I belong to a certain declared-deviant group"? Everyone makes that choice for themselves, and some people are successful, and some people aren't. It's all just stuff that happens. How pray tell, does one change outward signifiers such as skin color, or sexual orientation and are you seriously advocating prejudice, bias, and bigotry as forms of "socially constructed morality"?????? my head hurts.... Deviant groups????? Oy Vay!!!!

DemonKia -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/16/2009 3:58:39 PM)
FR -- after reading thru the thread to this point . . . . LOL -- what a great thread for displaying all kinds of stuff about people . .. . . . Thanks everyone for your contributions . . . . . . For the impatient & etc, my actual answer to the specific question is at the bottom of this rather lengthy posting; in between are thoughts brought up by the rest of the thread's postings, & I color-coded it all, sorta, hehehe . . . . . & to be really really really clear about what follows: I mostly don't complain. I mostly don't care what others find attractive or not. & I pretty much only talk about myself, so if you somehow think I'm talking about you in the following, well, that's just something you're doing with & to yourself . . .. . . lol & you poor poor things that do wade thru the following, this thread unleashed a lot of stuff -- you've been warned . . . . lol When I was 18 my mother gave me a wonderful book that really helped me figure out a lot of stuff about my relationship with my body, food, & etc: 'Diets Don't Work' . . . . It's a workbook that asks questions & expects the user of it to journal their stuff . . . . . . Thumbs way up . . . . Won't necessarily cause one to 'lose weight' but will help to figure a lot of the mental & social stuff around food & weight & etc out for oneself . . . . . . Cuz there's way more to it than the simplicity of 'eat less, exercise more' that's frequently presented . . . . . My favorite example is a headline I stole from a tabloid many years ago: 3 Simple Steps To Weight Loss -- (1) Deal With Your Emotional Stuff, (2) Eat Less, & (3) Exercise More. It's that first step that's a doozy . . . . . . lol . . . In my case the biggest impediment to my maintaining something approaching a 'normal body size' is that I don't 'feel safe' when I'm less than obese . . . . . My fat body says 'no' for me far more effectively than I've been able to in the past; funnily enough, this is something that BDSM & identifying as dominant has been really helping me with . . .. . I'm feeling 'able' to be a smaller (& dangerously more desirable) size than I ever before have been . . . . . . . . I'm an over-eater, with a serious sucrose addiction that I've been working on quitting for some time now . . . . . . Just like the tobacco I gave up in '94, I'm sure I'll beat the sugar thing too: I've quit it over & over & one of these days it'll stick . . . . . . But I long ago gave up on having the lean-mean-beauty-machine body so desired by the mass culture -- partly cuz I know that even some of those pretty-young-things will be fighting the fat as they age . . . . . lol . . . . (Yep, I'm a big schaudenfreudesque meanie in that regard . . . . . ) & partly cuz I haven't been into devoting the 3 to 6+ hours a day it would take for me to achieve that goal . .. . . Nor do I want to eat quite the restricted diet that's necessary to cut body fat way down . . . . . . Instead, I focus on being 'fit' which is only loosely correlated with body size . . . . The self-competive judgementals I indulge in are things like being able to: comfortably bend over & tie my shoes; walk 'fast'; walk a fast mile & be reasonably comfortable at its end; carry 20 or 40 pounds of groceries, et alia, home, on foot over about a 3/4 mile; & on & on .. . . . One of my favorite 'mean' things to do is to invite some ostensible 'size bigot' who thinks they know something about my level of fitness based on my exterior to go for a hike with me in our lovely Bidwell Park, hehehehe . . . . . . Most of those I've managed to wrangle into that have been hiked into the ground . . . . . I'm not so fabulously fast but I've got beaucoup stamina . . . . . lol I've been working out with intent since 1991 . . . . . . & I'm pretty much the same size I was then . . . . . Maybe I average 20 or 30 pounds lighter than I started . . . . . . BUT. I set out to get in better shape, not to lose weight. That's an ancillary goal. My true goal, that I have only briefly touched in the years since, is to be able to comfortably run a mile, do a dozen pull-ups, & similar, but I'm undissuaded from my pursuit of that goal . . . . . So. One point I've learned is that physical fitness is an ongoing dynamic, & those who are marvelously fit now may not stay that way, & vice versa . . . . . &, for me, it's absolutely necessary that I have lots of ways to be physical -- I get bored easily, so I need to change stuff up on a regular basis. I walk, bicycle, rollerblade, skateboard, hike, dance & swim. I also do calisthenic & isotonic things, but not in that kinda P.E. class kinda way (I hate the counting repetitive movements thing -- spit, spit, spit) . . . . So I incorporate them into doing stuff around the house, dancing around the house to music, sitting at my desk (sitting doesn't have to be static), & so on . . . . . . For instance, I mostly walk to the store for groceries, & if I'm carrying bags home (rather than pulling the old-lady shopping cart), I lift the bags all the way home, front, back, sides . . . . . . . THANK GAWD FOR MY iPOD!!!!!!!! I love my iPod for just this reason, it makes walking a joy . . .. . . .. Personally, it's always seemed pretty obvious to me that a big chunk of the 'obesity epidemic' was the long slow result of going from 95% of the population walking an average of some 20 miles a day before cars, to our current lifestyles where walking (or other 'exercise') is something special we have to make room for in our 'over-crowded' lives . . .. . . & particularly acutely I wanna point out that this is the peculiarly American 'disease', this allergy to the movement of the body . . . . . . For example, my family & I live in a mobile-home park, about fifty feet from the central compound where the mailboxes, laundry room, & recycle-bins & over-flow garbage containers are located: we regularly marvel at the many residents we watch get into their cars & drive literally 50 or a hundred feet rather than walk that distance, to check mail, or do laundry / garbage chores . . . .. But I'm biased, cuz I quit driving in '96 -- in large part because I couldn't afford to go to the gym, or more exactly I couldn't afford to pay for a babysitter while I went to the gym . . . . . & you wouldn't believe what a tightwad I can be, hehehehe . . . . . Trading the expense of the car lifestyle for the costs of public transit, bicycles, et alia, oh rubs hands, salivates, we still have only spent about 3 years worth of 'car costs' in the succeeding nearly 13 years on everything -- buses, bicycles, skates, walking shoes . . . . . . I'd never go back just on the cost thing alone: I'd only ever do the car thing if it paid me to own it . . . . . LOL &, also, getting the school-age offspring out of the car lifestyle did them a huge favor . . . . . . I was very unhappy with how they were getting fat, too, but voila, all the exercise -- much of it joint family exercise of walking to the grocery store & etc -- really helped turn that stuff around . . . . All three still have a little bit of chubbiness, but they're all much fitter & none drives -- they all bicycle, walk, etc, now that they're adults . . . . . Habits is habits. Oh. & for the record, I'm 5' 9" & about 190-200 these days -- tho' I can piss out 10 pounds just from water weight, I drink a lot of water . . . . . . I've been losing, & gaining, & losing weight these last coupla years -- in Dec. I was around 240, but some terrible stuff happened in my life & I basically didn't eat for a month or two, & that dropped an easy 20 or so pounds, & I've been working on 'rolling out' of that space & using that momentum . . .. . . & always, going thru my emotional muck . . . . . lol . . . . Currently I'm moving into a 'good space' about my diet & exercise, coming out of a coupla year bad spell of depression & declining desire to move my bod' . . . . . . . & also for the record, in '99 I got evaluated by the lab that the local college has for the exercise physiology students: I was stress-tested on a treadmill, with a breathing bag to evaluate VO2 uptake, & I was water-weighed for my fat percentile -- which was, I think, about 32%. Yes, I'd like it lower. I'd be perfectly happy to get it to around 28%. But the teacher of the class, an MD -- cardiologist, actually, I think -- discussed my case with the students as an example of what they would see in someone like a discus thrower. Made me feel good, lol . . . . . . & I spend a certain amount of time on maintaining my upper body muscle mass, & I'm one of those stealth muscley types -- under the visible fat there's a lot of muscle & I put the muscle on pretty easy . . . . . But that also feeds into the following . . . . .. I wanna go on record that losing weight tends to make me feel like shit -- I can definitely 'feel' my body resisting the weight loss (which -- duh! -- is what it's evolutionarily set for; 'easy' weight loss would have been a clear loser over our evolutionary history where scarce, hard to acquire calories were the norm rather than the current US environment of cheap & relatively easy to acquire calories being the usual state of affairs) & I can feel the toll that the released 'toxins' are wreaking on my system . . . . . . To cope with this reality, I focus on very slow, very gradual changes in exercise increase & weight loss; drinking a lot of water, typically about 4 liters in the winter & at least 8 or so in the summer, & I rarely drink sodas or that kinda thing -- daily I drink a little black or green tea, & more herbal tea (peppermint & ginger, mostly), all teas drunk plain & unsweetened by preference, & a serving or two a day of OJ (fucking love orange juice, & I could practically marry tangerine juice, mmmmmmmmmmmm); increasing my fruit & veggie intake; getting plenty of rest; & otherwise treating myself very well around this issue . . . . . & increasing my exercise load also comes with certain trade-offs. First of all, for me, it hurts to work out. It also helps with my pain issues (arthritis kindsa stuff), but it also has its pains. Amongst other things, I have life-long issues with leg-cramping, & when I up the work-out load the leg cramps visit me fiercely . . . . . It helps to up my potassium bearing food uptake -- OJ & bananas & more fruit in general . . . . . But I also frequently get all kinds of little pains & strains, most of which disappear after a while. Usually just mentally focusing on increasing blood-flow to the area, working on my breathing to increase VO2 uptake, & adhering to tight physical form & very conscious use of my body will get me thru the initial aches & pains that pop up pretty much most times that I go out & walk or skate or whatever . . .. . . The flip side is that I also feel icky when I'm in a more slothful, weight-gaining phase . . . . . . I hate the feeling of being incapacitated by my own body, plus I do feel 'intoxicated', even 'poisoned' by the creeping weight & all the 'groceries' I'm bringing in that aren't being matched by an equivalent amount of 'garbage' going out . . . . . Ummm, also I think there's a huge distinction between accepting fat people & applauding being obese . . . . . For me, it was very important to get into a space of loving myself in order to get out of my self-destructive, even quasi-suicidal, behaviors around my eating & exercise & such . . . . . . I pretty much only thrive & really bloom under loving care; the hating thing works for others, I guess, but all it does for me is drive me in the opposite direction . . . . . . Gentleness is one of my watchwords in most matters . . . . . . Ah. As to the actual question: I actually do think that there are ways & places in which BDSM can be a more accepting space about people's bodies -- all the play parties & 'public' dungeons I've gone to have been places where I can run around scantily clad & or naked & be appreciated. Outside of nudist colonies & Burning Man, I'm hard-pressed to think of other places where I can strut around & feel desired (inclusive of admiring looks from others) when wearing darn little to no clothing . . . . It's true that here on CM it's easy for people to display a level of pickiness they may not even actually follow thru in real life, but in real life BDSM interactions I've found that not only is there quite a bit of 'fat acceptance', some places & people actually demand fat acceptance as part of polite conduct . . . . . (SinfulCat in Sac, when running her Sindulgences space specifically had fat tolerance as a requirement to attend play parties, for example . . . . . . ) Oh, & rather random side-note: as a rope top, I like tying up the chubby as much as the thin . . . . . I like the way the chub oozes around the rope, I find it very aesthetically appealing all on its own . . .. . & tittie bondage is the bomb on big pendulous titties -- the tiny ones can't even begin to compete . . . . . lol . . . . Obviously purely le opinion de moi, as is most of the above . . . . . . .

lronitulstahp -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/16/2009 4:16:26 PM)
quote: Ummm, also I think there's a huge distinction between accepting fat people & applauding being obese . . . . . By Jove, I think she's got it! -'enry 'iggins

Ialdabaoth -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/16/2009 4:19:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp How pray tell, does one change outward signifiers such as skin color, Obviously, you don't. Sometimes the level of effort is infinite. quote: or sexual orientation It's called being "in the closet". quote: and are you seriously advocating prejudice, bias, and bigotry as forms of "socially constructed morality"?????? Absolutely not. Where did you get that? quote: my head hurts.... Deviant groups????? Oy Vay!!!! That's the sociological term for it, yes.

YourhandMyAss -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/16/2009 4:20:15 PM)
Never cared for roller skating, even normal skating. and Kick boxing to rough for my liking, what I am saying though, is if asked to do something I can do I'd say yes. Which was the crux of her question, who of those who're addicted to junk food would go out and do heavy activities with her. quote: ORIGINAL: DavanKael I agree ironically and I keep pointing out to him, how he can't be a junk food and soda junky and do MMA and kick boxing,. He swears he wants to be healthy and then does nothing to get there. What's keeping you from learning to do those things on your own? Saying that you need someone to ask you along with them is pushing off responsibility. I think this is alos, in a sidelong way, indicative of the instant gratification someone mentioned: give me the motivation. And, as a fan of MMA, I can say with assurance that someone who is a junk food junkie and drinks 10 sodas a day is going to die if they try to compete in that venue. Again, you can't go from a complete mess to champion quality with the wave of a magic wand. It takes dedication. Davan

ShaktiSama -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/16/2009 4:53:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Daddyluvsitrough And I don't get why people who are fit and not interested in someone overweight are viewed as shallow & narrow-minded. Why are they considered shallow and narrow-minded? Probably for the same reason that anyone else is considered shallow and narrow-minded: because of the way they speak and behave. Accepting others and treating them decently has nothing to do with being forced to have sex with them. As you point out, it's more than possible to be friendly, courteous and non-judgmental to someone without finding their body type appealing. For example, I personally express my sense of beauty and eroticism in my photographs and in my own private choices of partners and models, positively, rather than writing hateful diatribes about people who aren't attractive to me. The fact that someone is not like me, or not sexually attractive to me, does not make them physically and morally inferior to me and those who are "my type". People of all shapes and sizes have a right to exist and to live in peace without being verbally or physically attacked. I am not sure why this is in any way hard to "get". It seems extremely basic to me, the kind of ethics that should be taught in kindergarten. A pity that in so many places, it is a lesson never learned. I've never understood why people present false dichotomies like this one in "fat threads". Why do you believe that there are only two choices? "I can either hatefully condemn fat people and verbally abuse them" or "I have to have sex with fat people". "I can either dictate my sense of moral and physical superiority to people with 'inferior' bodies at every opportunity" or "I have to applaud obesity". Are there no other options? It seems that RedMagic expresses himself rather well in this thread, without being vicious or needlessly negative. Why not learn to follow his example, even if you do not find overweight people sexually attractive? Is it really such a pleasure to be working for the "Skinny Police", much less filled with hatred and anger, the way DavanKael is, that any human being on this planet could possible DARE to be fat?

lronitulstahp -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/16/2009 4:59:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth quote: ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp How pray tell, does one change outward signifiers such as skin color, Obviously, you don't. Sometimes the level of effort is infinite. quote: or sexual orientation It's called being "in the closet". Can you tell a person's sexual orientation if they are just standing still in a line-up? That's sort of my point here. There is no signifier unless a person somehow discloses the information, and my question regarding skin color was, of course, tongue in cheek. quote: and are you seriously advocating prejudice, bias, and bigotry as forms of "socially constructed morality"?????? Absolutely not. Where did you get that? Good to know. i thought you were somehow saying "Meh...these things happen...no need to be incensed over it." i detest apathy. i just wanted clarification, thanks. quote: my head hurts.... Deviant groups????? Oy Vay!!!! That's the sociological term for it, yes. Still not sure if you're saying that sociologically minorities, gays and other groups are considered deviant groups, without displaying deviant behaviors....i hope that's not the case. i think it may be a case of me being used to paragraphs or something.smile

phoenixrising43 -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/16/2009 5:03:31 PM)
Sadly, no. People are pretty similar the world over, lifestyle or not.

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