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dealing with friends/family - 5/18/2009 9:30:49 AM

sunshiinedreamer

Posts: 12
Joined: 5/12/2009
Status: offline

it may just be me, but i've noticed a lot of people (both submissives and dominants) are VERY independent, not just in a tangible way, but in a mental way, like they don't have extremely close friendships and really do ONLY want a partner. it makes it hard for people to relate to me when i try to explain that my social circle DOES matter to me... my family and friends mean the world to me, and while i want to share my whole life with Someone, i don't want to lose my loved ones, either. does anyone think that to truly be in the lifestyle you can't be trying to appease your vanilla loved ones that don't approve? do you think there comes a point where you honestly just stop caring what they think/say? or do you think you can have it both ways, letting yourself grow in the life but not letting it come between you and anyone?

Post #: 1

RE: dealing with friends/family - 5/18/2009 9:55:12 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

I am extremely close to my family. Always have been. And they have always allowed me to grow and be who I am, if your family don't - are you really as connected to them as you think you are? Doesn't a family who loves each other and cares about it's self, do that?

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to sunshiinedreamer)

Post #: 2

RE: dealing with friends/family - 5/18/2009 9:59:16 AM

subtlebutterfly

Posts: 2230
Joined: 6/15/2008
From: Not your hood
Status: offline

My friends/family will always come first...I wouldn't want a solely-kinky friends. However I prefer keeping this private just like I'm not going to walk around flagging the lesbian blingbling sign or my forehead I'm not going to be flagging a lifestyler billboard either.
I'm greedy so I believe it's possible to have it both ways. My social circle matters to me, very very very very veeeeeeeeeery..did I mention very? much.

_____________________________

~Ms. Awesomeness to YOU!~

(in reply to sunshiinedreamer)

Post #: 3

RE: dealing with friends/family - 5/18/2009 10:04:30 AM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshiinedreamer
it may just be me, but i've noticed a lot of people (both submissives and dominants) are VERY independent, not just in a tangible way, but in a mental way, like they don't have extremely close friendships and really do ONLY want a partner. it makes it hard for people to relate to me when i try to explain that my social circle DOES matter to me... my family and friends mean the world to me, and while i want to share my whole life with Someone, i don't want to lose my loved ones, either. does anyone think that to truly be in the lifestyle you can't be trying to appease your vanilla loved ones that don't approve? do you think there comes a point where you honestly just stop caring what they think/say? or do you think you can have it both ways, letting yourself grow in the life but not letting it come between you and anyone?

Really, when you get down to it, I don't think I'm doing anything wrong. My own perception is that I am loving my wife and our marriage in the best way I know how and I'm willing to defend that stance to friends and family as needed. I kind of expect any friends of mine to have at least moderate critical thinking skills which means they are going to be able to understand what happens between Carol and I given a bit of explanation. In some ways, I think it's easier for us because this discussion only really includes authority, not kink. Then again, the very extent of the authority has at least momentarily set one or two friends aback.

In the end, this is who I am and I am proud of it. If someone else is not, then they have a very different value system than me and probably aren't good friend material for me anyway. Is it really true that your friends have such a different value system from yours or are you just spinning up imaginary fears that they won't understand?

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to sunshiinedreamer)

Post #: 4

RE: dealing with friends/family - 5/18/2009 10:06:33 AM

sunshiinedreamer

Posts: 12
Joined: 5/12/2009
Status: offline

yes, it should be like that; but even the most loving and understanding families can be ridiculously over-protective. i will admit that when someone i care about is doing something i can't understand or don't agree with, i don't always have the easiest time accepting them; i worry about them, and want to do everything in my power to keep them safe. i guess i'm just reaping what i sowed. i want to break off such a inter-dependent relationship with a few people, but without losing them... and i'm not sure how to do that.
xoxo

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 5

RE: dealing with friends/family - 5/18/2009 10:11:51 AM

sunshiinedreamer

Posts: 12
Joined: 5/12/2009
Status: offline

no, i'm not just imagining it. it's mostly one or two people that are very involved in my everyday life and that i have little to no secrets from. they don't approve of the lifestyle, of the internet, of anything. but this is something for me, something i don't feel the need to spill every detail about, but at the same time for the sake of safety need to have them at least know where i'm at and what i'm doing at times. we've had countless arguments that just run in circles.. and i just can't figure out how to make it work for everyone.
xoxo.

(in reply to sunshiinedreamer)

Post #: 6

RE: dealing with friends/family - 5/18/2009 10:20:29 AM

littleone35

Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline

My family means the world to me and we are very close. I also have some very close personal friends that I would not give up. As long as i am happy and fulfilled my parents yes they will always worry (they are parents after all) but will let me do my own thing and not ask questions. Since thy don't ask and i don't think they would understand i don't tell. My close personal personal friends know. They don't really understand but they know and they all like Master. They say he is good for me. I have to say I agree.

Matt's littleone

(in reply to sunshiinedreamer)

Post #: 7

RE: dealing with friends/family - 5/18/2009 10:25:08 AM

subtlebutterfly

Posts: 2230
Joined: 6/15/2008
From: Not your hood
Status: offline

Have you tried to agree to disagree? Shouldn't they be "happy" that you put your trust upon them when you're trying to guarantee your safety...

_____________________________

~Ms. Awesomeness to YOU!~

(in reply to littleone35)

Post #: 8

RE: dealing with friends/family - 5/18/2009 10:38:22 AM

GYPZYQUEEN

Posts: 730
Joined: 4/14/2009
Status: offline

There is a really good book"Dance of Intimacy" which explains dif relationships we have with dif ppl in our lives and the levels of intimacy as well as how to modify or change relationships..or have them take another form

It seems to me you are embracng the BDSM parts of your self

and as you do other relationships may change..and you fear losing them.

YES!You can GROW in the life and not let it come between you but THEY might..
YES!you can stop trying to appease but they may still try to HOOK you in

You are very young and family and friends are still trying to MOULD you or have you fit into a "tribe" "family" category"or idea they have for you which is normal..
and you are finding YOUR way which is normal

ON thing that worked for me...was to tell less and less about BDSM to those who could not understand. and never would..it became more important to say ..attend the family picnic..
or holiday than to try to get approval or blessing ...or put up with BS from old aunt M about how I dressed etc....or have inquires about why I lived with 2 men.

As I lived my life quietly,consistently with support in the different aspects of it...by dif ppl.
then I was accepted as a WHOLE person...and if not then those ppl were let go..or drifted away.

It will seem at times that you are living 2 lives...but you are not...
You are a WHOLE woman with many aspects...many facets still developing
and those facets will be more evident and stronger in different scenerios.

THe book above mentions many ways to speak others without losing them..;
HOW to set the tone of
"this is who I am..I LOVE you and this is who I am"

and most importantly it tells about NOT justifying...
( you are doing nothing wrong) and hwo to discuss without
blame..or "you said you said"..but from YOUR point of view

GQ

< Message edited by GYPZYQUEEN -- 5/18/2009 10:44:45 AM >

(in reply to sunshiinedreamer)

Post #: 9

RE: dealing with friends/family - 5/18/2009 10:58:04 AM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshiinedreamer
no, i'm not just imagining it. it's mostly one or two people that are very involved in my everyday life and that i have little to no secrets from. they don't approve of the lifestyle, of the internet, of anything.

That's unfortunate. For me, at least, I have very strong communication skills and I've so far been able to present WIITWD in ways which my more conservative friends can understand. Here's one...

You know, I used to work as a manager and I invested a lot of time and effort organizing things for my company and my team at work. Now I am retired and I do the same thing in my marriage. And you know what? Just like at work, I'm good at it. That level of investment, organization and clarity has really paid off for Carol and I.
There! A view of our authority dynamic expressed in every-day terms that people can understand.

Or, how about some particularly stubborn friend comes over and sees Carol in her dog collar.

FRIEND: Why are you wearing that collar?
CAROL: It's a symbol of my obedience to my husband.
FRIEND: You obey your husband? Why on earth would you do that?
CAROL: Why wouldn't I? He's a smart, savvy, good leader who also happens to love me?
FRIEND: But it's just wrong!!
CAROL: Could you be more specific. I mean "just wrong" is kind of vague. What exactly bothers you about it?

At this point, we get the list of standard reasons...

You shouldn't have to obey your husband You're right! And I don't. I CHOOSE to obey him.
Why not just work things out between you like normal couples?His leadership is good for me personally and our marriage as a whole. I am more successful and healthy as a human and our marriage is more filled with love. What's the rub?
It's a crutch. How will you develop your own strength if you ride on his? Really? So then it's equally bad that he relies on me cooking dinner every night? Or it's a crutch that I do all the filing in our relationship because he sucks at it? I kind of thought the whole point of getting a life partner was to have a partner to help out.
But you shouldn't need help running your own life You're right. And I'm perfectly capable of running my own life. But he runs OUR better than I could or we did jointly. If it ever becomes my life again, then I'll run it myself just fine.
Does he make you do things you don't want to? Sure, all the time. But the word 'make' in this sentence is a bit loose. I could always choose not to obey. And really, when you think about it, don't we ALL do lots of things every day we don't want to? How would this change if I was running my own life? Would I magically then only be able to do things I like?

I could go on and on. But in my experience, this stuff is scary in theory, not in fact. That is to say, when you posit some theoretical master/slave couple and all the horrible ways they could abuse each other, then there's lots of horrible things. But when you look at Carol and myself.. two people who are deeply in love and deeply committed to each other, those horrible things just aren't relevant. The more specific the example, the less those vague fears of your friends (or mine) apply unless you truly are making poor choices in which case you'd kind of hope your friends would be persistent about pointing it out.

OK, I don't honestly know if any of this helps or not. You might've already tried all of it. Or, perhaps, your friends just truly are completely close-minded to the topic. Have they specified in what ways they believe your choices are hurting you or is it just the generic, "that's just wrong"

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to sunshiinedreamer)

Post #: 10

RE: dealing with friends/family - 5/18/2009 10:58:26 AM

IrishMist

Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

does anyone think that to truly be in the lifestyle you can't be trying to appease your vanilla loved ones

No, I do not think that.
As for their approval, my question would be "why do you need their approval to live your own life?"

quote:

do you think there comes a point where you honestly just stop caring what they think/say?

Yes, I do think that. Of course, individual responses will vary

quote:

or do you think you can have it both ways

Again, yes I do also think that you can have it both ways

quote:

letting yourself grow in the life but not letting it come between you and anyone?

why does there have to be a choice? One or the other?

In the end, nothing matters except what truly makes YOU comfortable and content. If you can't find a man/woman who understands the need to for family and friends outside of their own family and friends...then quite honestly, you should not be with them anyway.

There are no hard and fast rules about M/s/D/s relationships; it all boils down to what you need/want and what your partner needs/wants...and in some cases, something in between.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to sunshiinedreamer)

Post #: 11

RE: dealing with friends/family - 5/18/2009 11:02:05 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

My family is the most important aspect of my life. There is a pretty strong chance I have turned away some decent prospective slaves/submissives because of my love and protective feelings towards my family. I am totally okay with that.

If a potential slave/submissive cannot behave in a manner that does not upset my family or cause problems for them, they are not for me.

Friends I don't need much of, too busy for a vast social circle. That's okay because I've chosen to live as I do. But family is very very important to me.

Given that the above is so important to me, I would never be a hypocrite and expect otherwise of a sub/slave in my life.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 5/18/2009 11:03:12 AM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to sunshiinedreamer)

Post #: 12

RE: dealing with friends/family - 5/18/2009 11:07:00 AM

BKSir

Posts: 4037
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Salt Lake City, UT
Status: offline

I tend to be very close with a small number of people, hang out with them plus about double that on a regular basis, but that number, grand total, never really tops 20.

Family... well... that's an odd term for me. Since the passing of my mom and grandma, it's never held more true, a saying that I remember from god knows where. "Blood makes relatives, love makes a family." I don't consider my "relatives" to even exist usually, much less be my "family". My family, to me, are the ones I spend time with, the ones I care about and would do anything for. Those are certainly NOT my relatives.

I guess it really is a matter of perspective on some of these things, deciding where values lie and paths cross, and down to individual personality (for example, I have one, and my relatives tend to lack it).

_____________________________

We'll begin with a spin, traveling in a world of my creation. What we'll see will defy explanation.

I am the voices in your head.

BiggKatt Studios

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 13

RE: dealing with friends/family - 5/18/2009 3:05:19 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

I'm not close to my family really and I only have very few close friends but many acquaintances. When I am with a partner I know that I will probably lose some friends...it's just part of what seems to go along with finding someone to be in a relationship with for me. I always seem to lose some friends. I'm aware of that and quite used to it but I don't think I would be with someone who would not want me to have friends and I don't want him to close himself off from his friends or family either...but in the end, to be honest...Master is going to come before all of them for me.

(in reply to BKSir)

Post #: 14

RE: dealing with friends/family - 5/18/2009 4:50:45 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

We've got five teens between us. We agreed early that being good parents comes first. But this is true for both of us. If he wasn't involved with his offspring, I wouldn't have much respect for him. And vice versa.

Now I don't know if they understand the implications of the relationship in terms of authority. My oldest makes snide comments occasionally about me not being able to go places without him, but in times of trouble he's the first one she calls. I don't explain things to other people, I allow them to observe our relationship and see how it works.

I've gotten envious comments from people about how we are always happy with each other, without the usual arguments in a relationship. I've never had anyone ask why. But if they did I would probably reply like leadership did, that he's better at decision making than I am. Which is true, if there's a decision to be made, I will make the decision based on what is right for everyone else no matter what the cost to me. His decisions keep in mind what shape I'll be in afterwards which means I'll be in better shape.

However no one has ever seen him not be respectful and caring towards me. He doesn't treat me like dirt because he's the dom and I am less because I'm submissive. If you're friends are seeing him deliberately treat you badly in front of them, you may want to think about why he is doing this. Is it to isolate you and make you lose the other important people in your life? He may look at his watch and say "time to go", he doesn't say in front of family "on your feet bitch". There would be no reason to do that except to make my family uncomfortable and to keep me from talking to them in the future.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 15

RE: dealing with friends/family - 5/18/2009 6:25:37 PM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

*smiles and waves at Des*

Hiya Des! Yeah, I pretty much agree with everything you've said (big surprise there *laughs*). I'm particularly interested in how your view on decision making and Carol's is so similar. To put a finer point on it, I think of Carol like this...

Carol has no problem making sensible, well thought out decisions, unless those decisions pit her needs against someone elses. In that case, she frequently struggles and comes out with sub-optimal answers mostly because she's not willing to consider herself on equal footing with me. So in truth, it's really only one kind of decision that she struggles with. But that sort of question comes up regularly within a marriage so it's an issue.

I also concur with your last paragraph. As I read that I thought to myself that that was a cornerstone for why it wasn't hard for me to talk about this to my vanilla friends. Because honestly, they've seen little that would concern them. Sure, the collar's a bit freaky as is the leash. But down at the meat and potatoes layer where stuff matters, it is clear that we have a vibrant, mutually healthy relationship and so it's hard to get all up in arms about it.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 16

RE: dealing with friends/family - 5/18/2009 8:00:04 PM

Lynnxz

Posts: 4813
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
Status: offline

Meh, it's not hard. I'm not going to go into the gory details with my mother, she doesn't want to know. Our dialog is as such:

"Wow, he's got you trained."
"Yeah. C wears the pants."
"Ha!"

Tada. Done. No self righteous martyrdom about how misunderstood I am. Just a fact here or there, and everyone's happy.

_____________________________

HBIC

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 17

RE: dealing with friends/family - 5/18/2009 8:51:52 PM

Daddysredhead

Posts: 23574
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Northern (yet still part of the South) Virginia
Status: offline

My friends and family are incredibly important to me as anyone here who knows me can attest. I have managed to have both the vanilla and bdsm worlds in a pretty healthy balance. Many of my vanilla friends know about the dynamics of my relationship with DB, and some think it's pretty weird. One of my sisters knows the whole deal and isn't all that thrilled, but I don't really care. My life is mine to live. Sometimes, just to be a brat (I'm the youngest), I smack her on the ass really hard and ask, "Do you like that?" She invariably gives me a "WTF?" look. I smile and say, "When you DO like it, let me know. I'll tell your hubby how to spice things up for you." At that point I get eye rolls and an occasional smack in the arm. It's ok. I'm letting her know in a playful way that my choices are for me, and regardless of what she thinks of them, I'm going to do what is best for me.

As for lifestyle people being very independent, I'm not sure I agree. There are many of us who call, email, and stay in contact almost daily, not for the sake of talking about kinky stuff, but for the friendship, understanding, and love that we get from loving and being loved unconditionally by a friend.

~ Red

_____________________________

Founding Member, Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's

Do not challenge me to a battle of wits & come to fight unarmed.

Are you really that stupid? ~ Bless your heart

13th doughnut

(in reply to Lynnxz)

Post #: 18

RE: dealing with friends/family - 5/18/2009 8:51:58 PM

hopeful68

Posts: 77
Joined: 9/16/2008
Status: offline

well said GYPZYQUEEN..

(in reply to GYPZYQUEEN)

Post #: 19

RE: dealing with friends/family - 5/18/2009 10:21:31 PM

GreedyTop

Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshiinedreamer
no, i'm not just imagining it. it's mostly one or two people that are very involved in my everyday life and that i have little to no secrets from. they don't approve of the lifestyle, of the internet, of anything.

That's unfortunate. For me, at least, I have very strong communication skills and I've so far been able to present WIITWD in ways which my more conservative friends can understand. Here's one...

You know, I used to work as a manager and I invested a lot of time and effort organizing things for my company and my team at work. Now I am retired and I do the same thing in my marriage. And you know what? Just like at work, I'm good at it. That level of investment, organization and clarity has really paid off for Carol and I.
There! A view of our authority dynamic expressed in every-day terms that people can understand.

Or, how about some particularly stubborn friend comes over and sees Carol in her dog collar.

FRIEND: Why are you wearing that collar?
CAROL: It's a symbol of my obedience to my husband.
FRIEND: You obey your husband? Why on earth would you do that?
CAROL: Why wouldn't I? He's a smart, savvy, good leader who also happens to love me?
FRIEND: But it's just wrong!!
CAROL: Could you be more specific. I mean "just wrong" is kind of vague. What exactly bothers you about it?

At this point, we get the list of standard reasons...

You shouldn't have to obey your husband You're right! And I don't. I CHOOSE to obey him.
Why not just work things out between you like normal couples?His leadership is good for me personally and our marriage as a whole. I am more successful and healthy as a human and our marriage is more filled with love. What's the rub?
It's a crutch. How will you develop your own strength if you ride on his? Really? So then it's equally bad that he relies on me cooking dinner every night? Or it's a crutch that I do all the filing in our relationship because he sucks at it? I kind of thought the whole point of getting a life partner was to have a partner to help out.
But you shouldn't need help running your own life You're right. And I'm perfectly capable of running my own life. But he runs OUR better than I could or we did jointly. If it ever becomes my life again, then I'll run it myself just fine.
Does he make you do things you don't want to? Sure, all the time. But the word 'make' in this sentence is a bit loose. I could always choose not to obey. And really, when you think about it, don't we ALL do lots of things every day we don't want to? How would this change if I was running my own life? Would I magically then only be able to do things I like?

I could go on and on. But in my experience, this stuff is scary in theory, not in fact. That is to say, when you posit some theoretical master/slave couple and all the horrible ways they could abuse each other, then there's lots of horrible things. But when you look at Carol and myself.. two people who are deeply in love and deeply committed to each other, those horrible things just aren't relevant. The more specific the example, the less those vague fears of your friends (or mine) apply unless you truly are making poor choices in which case you'd kind of hope your friends would be persistent about pointing it out.

OK, I don't honestly know if any of this helps or not. You might've already tried all of it. Or, perhaps, your friends just truly are completely close-minded to the topic. Have they specified in what ways they believe your choices are hurting you or is it just the generic, "that's just wrong"

Brilliant post :)

_____________________________

polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 20

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