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Being a Realist has it's faults. - 5/21/2009 12:37:10 PM

SteelofUtah

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From: St George Utah
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There are times when you enjoy playing the Daydreamer and thinking on the perfect world where everything works out the way you think it should. Where every contact of a paddle is Extacy and every command is obeyed with vigor and respect. Where your Dominant wants nothing more than to do only those things that make you float on cloud nine and never wants to do any of those things that you hold your breath through and wait for it to be over.

As a realist I try to make it clear that this isn't some slap and tickle bedroom fun time. This is day to day 24/7 365 reality and in that there will come times I do stuff and we need to discuss it because no one can see all outlets of the unforseeable future.

I had a first contact go bad, she didn't seem to like the fact that there would be times in which from a harder than usual spank she might get a bruise on her butt. That if I used the back scratcher it was almost indefinite that she owuld end up with a bruise and well apparently that was a deal breaker. She didn't mind the level of play, she didn't mind the way I run my home, she didn't even mind my sexual kinks it literally came down to the fact that I made it clear that some play WILL end in bruises. No HARM will come to her but some of the toys I use are for the sole purpose of MAKEING marks which end in a Bruise.

WyldHrt can attest to that first hand.

That being said, do you think my adamance to the fact that bruises, light mild bruises from impact play are something to be expected was too much too soon?

Would have playcating her desire not to have bruises of ANY kind have been the better thing to do?

Would you appreciate someone going "Okay I understand" and then having it happen anyway at a later date with an "Ohh My How on God's Green Earth did THAT happen?"

I mean would you rather be blissfully Ignorant of Reality and what is more than likely an actual possibility or would you like someone who says "Them's the Lemons, lets figure out how we make Lemonade."

Steel

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RE: Being a Realist has it's faults. - 5/21/2009 12:51:29 PM

leadership527

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Joined: 6/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah
That being said, do you think my adamance to the fact that bruises, light mild bruises from impact play are something to be expected was too much too soon?

Not at all. I think of this as honorable. You weren't guessing.. you KNEW.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah
Would have playcating her desire not to have bruises of ANY kind have been the better thing to do?

Who are we to say. You decided that the girl wasn't worth it to you without bruises. Only you can say whether this is a wise choice or not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah
Would you appreciate someone going "Okay I understand" and then having it happen anyway at a later date with an "Ohh My How on God's Green Earth did THAT happen?"

see my first answer... see also: liar. No, I wouldn't not have been good with that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah
I mean would you rather be blissfully Ignorant of Reality and what is more than likely an actual possibility or would you like someone who says "Them's the Lemons, lets figure out how we make Lemonade."

I might've passed on the need to have bruises, but that's not where you are. For you, that was a definite so I think you handled yourself honorably. If you only maybe wanted bruises and were willing to see how things developed, THEN it would've been better to let her go down the path one step at a time. But I'm not getting that that's how it is for you.

The bottom line... you had no flexibility in an area which was problematic for her. *shrugs* These things happen but you did what you had to do.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 2

RE: Being a Realist has it's faults. - 5/21/2009 12:54:03 PM

eyesopened

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To the question you asked, I really aprreciate hearing exactly where the bear shit in the buckwheat and to say one can engage in impact play and never leave a mark... that would be impossible to promise.

I bruise easily so if I wanted to make sure there were never any marks on my body I'd have to dress in bubble-wrap every day. Bruises, scars, pimples, paper cuts, hang nails, for crying out loud, Life leaves its mark. If nothing else a strange bruise is at least usfeul for a good story. My Master will almost always hurt me. He's a sadist and that is something I knew from day one. He will never harm me. Because I know He will never harm me, I trust Him to hurt me.

For me, well it took a really long time to figure out who I am and there was one lesson in particular that I took to heart and stays with me to this day and that is focus. The person who cannot stand the thought that some activity might bruise.... well where is their focus? Not on you, that's for sure. Now, on an initial contact do they really need to be focused on you? Probably not, but you get my point.

In my opinion? Someone is worried about the possibility of a bruise on her butt? Obviously someone other than herself is going to be observing said butt. And probably that other observer is where her focus lies. Just a thought.

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RE: Being a Realist has it's faults. - 5/21/2009 12:59:12 PM

SteelofUtah

Posts: 5307
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From: St George Utah
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Interesting Take Jeff,

Actually Bruises were not a pre-requisite. We were talking about play and that I at times leave bruises, it is in the nature of the thing, you know it never even occured to me that that was a Dynamic that did not need to come into play between us.

I was simply stating a fact that when I spank and play there are bruises. It is part of what I enjoy about playing. I LIKE MARKS. However I do not need to play THAT way with everyone..... however I cannot think of many forms of play that I enjoy that do not eventually come to that. Even with Bondage I personally enjoy spanking while they are tied up.

Maybe the realist in me gets too literal, as I was never saying "I am Personally going to Bruise YOUR butt" however now that you point that out I can see how someone would take it that way.

Thank You

Steel

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The Steel Warm-Up © ™
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RE: Being a Realist has it's faults. - 5/21/2009 1:24:51 PM

BeingChewsie

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You did the right thing by being upfront about it. She did the right thing by saying no thanks if it wasn't for her. Be glad you are both realists and know yourselves well enough to be upfront about these things.

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~Ron and Hup

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 5

RE: Being a Realist has it's faults. - 5/21/2009 1:35:56 PM

leadership527

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How interesting! Yeah, you might be onto something there. I took it as a hard limit of yours when in fact it was more like... "Look, no matter how careful we are, if we play around with impact play eventually there's gonna be some mark somewhere." That statement is pretty unobjectionable... even as a dyed in the wool vanilla guy. I wonder if it really was just that she took it the way I did. God! communication can be a bitch sometimes.

If that's really how it went down, that's too bad because the truth is I've left bruises (and I'm certain myriad other types of marks) on Carol in our totally vanilla, no whips and chains sex life -- as have pretty much all vanilla couples. And she's left them on me too. Heck, our carpet is not a pile carpet so it's pretty hard. Missionary sex in the living room is good for various sorts of bruises, rug burns, and god knows what else.

Fundamentally, sex is a contact sport.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 6

RE: Being a Realist has it's faults. - 5/21/2009 1:39:44 PM

windchymes

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Being probably way too practical and realistic for my own good, I have to agree that it's totally unreasonable to think that any kind of impact play will never leave a bruise or mark. It's not like you beat her with a war club and planned to leave carnage behind. (Did you???

) Bruises happen. I think I'd just write her off as a bit of a drama princess and continue on.

Bruises always made me smile the next day, remembering. Like a little souvenir.

_____________________________

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RE: Being a Realist has it's faults. - 5/21/2009 2:19:53 PM

DesFIP

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From: Apple County NY
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Why are you framing this to make her unrealistic, to put all the blame on her? Lots of people have no visible marks as a limit. You like leaving marks, she doesn't like having them.

It doesn't make you an abusive creep. It doesn't make her a faker. It just makes you incompatible.

Just because you're different doesn't mean one of you is right and the other wrong. That's like saying anyone who doesn't like sushi is wrong or anyone who does is weird. You are deliberately framing her in a negative light for something that just comes down to taste. Stop blaming others for being different and incompatible and figure out why you hadn't discussed this early on.

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RE: Being a Realist has it's faults. - 5/21/2009 2:39:09 PM

leadership527

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I don't think that's what's going on here Des. I think Steel clued in on it first. Look at my 2nd posting... vanilla missionary sex leaves visible marks sooner or later. Windchymes apparently took it the same as Steel meant it so she thinks it appears the girl is unreasonable. But the way I took it (and I think you're taking it) it appears like a limit mis-match.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to DesFIP)

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RE: Being a Realist has it's faults. - 5/21/2009 2:47:03 PM

NihilusZero

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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

The bottom line... you had no flexibility in an area which was problematic for her. *shrugs* These things happen but you did what you had to do.

25 points.

Add to that that her request (from a contact-kink point of view) was totally unrealistic. Did she expect all furniture corners to be Nerf-wrapped also to prevent potential bruising during accidental run-ins? Weird.

_____________________________

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I know they're all insane
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I know that I'm to blame."
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RE: Being a Realist has it's faults. - 5/21/2009 3:02:37 PM

LovingMistress45

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Steel I think being up front is best. I also make it clear that my type of playing most often leaves marks/bruises. Anyone not ok with that is not a good match for me plain and simple.

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RE: Being a Realist has it's faults. - 5/21/2009 3:12:03 PM

SteelofUtah

Posts: 5307
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From: St George Utah
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Okay,

I was simply pointing out matters of fact.

Impact play can and will at some point cause visable marks. Perhaps her view of that phrase meant I would be hitting her with a Tire Iron.

One of the things that was touched on that I never even thought of was that I was stating a fact of the nature of play. I never said nor do I believe that I have to have this form of play with her. In fact it was her asking about how I play and then she brought up that she did not want bruises to which I simply pointed out that Impact play tends to lead to bruises wanted or not.

I am a Realist. The Fantasy of this is one can have this kind of play work out where no marks are left and all your hair remins in place and the lipstick never smears. The Reality of it is that people get hurt, on purpose or on accident, Bruises can be had with or without heavy play, and no one can see the absolute of thier actions until everything is said and done.

I believe my mistake happened when I spoke matter of factly and she was thinking I was meaning indefinantly.

Reality is Reality. Impact equals Trauma no matter how light and CAN cause bruises, I cannot promise NEVER to leave bruises because it is a promise I cannot keep, I however can not engage in those activities with her but they way she brought them up it seems she wanted to engage in those activities.

If anyone say someone being painted in a bad light it was spin you put on them because my questions although spiked due to our contact were generalized questions. Which do you think is better, to be Literal in your breakdown of what and who you are or to playcate the others wishes and know that reality does not cater to those desires?

Nil, in this girls defence she is new to the scene and I doubt she has played much, I know she has the kinky toys and I even understand she playes with them on herself so I was equally as confused about the nature of her desire. I can only assume that she wanted me to say "Oh no I would be careful not to bruise you" however I would not live up to my own integrity if I had because I myself know that would not be true. I don't spank someone for their enjoyment I spank them for mine..... it is just a bonus if they enjoy it as well.

Steel

_____________________________

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Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

(in reply to NihilusZero)

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RE: Being a Realist has it's faults. - 5/21/2009 3:24:24 PM

NihilusZero

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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

Nil, in this girls defence she is new to the scene and I doubt she has played much, I know she has the kinky toys and I even understand she playes with them on herself so I was equally as confused about the nature of her desire. I can only assume that she wanted me to say "Oh no I would be careful not to bruise you" however I would not live up to my own integrity if I had because I myself know that would not be true. I don't spank someone for their enjoyment I spank them for mine..... it is just a bonus if they enjoy it as well.

I can only imagine she was extrapolating other imagined interactions from your response. It doesn't take experience in kink-play to have basic derma-biological common sense. What about if you two were ever to get into a playful wrestling match? A tickle-fest that accidentally involved smacking up against a wall?

Your thread is to the point, though...somewhere along the line the clarity and directness of how you describe the reality of a situation was misinterpreted as an indication of willing consent...or non-consent, in this case; taking your admission of the reality of being able to avoid bruising as some suggestion that you would not curb the speed and potency of whatever toy (or hand) you were hitting her with.

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

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(in reply to SteelofUtah)

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RE: Being a Realist has it's faults. - 5/21/2009 3:37:20 PM

windchymes

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I don't think she's unreasonable to say ahead of time, "no bruises". BUT, no one can guarantee that impact isn't going to leave a bruise EVER, and if a bruise is that much of a hard limit, then she shouldn't consent to any kind of impact play.

Especially the first time playing....how does the Dom know how easily someone bruises? There have been threads here where some subs have talked of taking extremely hard blows and not developing a mark, and others bruise from a tap with a ruler.

Another thing to take into consideration is the way you're treated by the Dom hitting you. If has no regard for your comfort or safety and just does what he wants, then no, don't play with him ever again. I don't get the impression that this is the kind of person Steel is.

It sounds to me as though Steel gave a reasonable amount of blows, didn't beat her unmercifully, and she apparently didn't have a problem with the intensity of any of his blows (or, if she did, I'm assuming she didn't say so at the time). It's only when she found a bruise, rather than say, "Hey, maybe we should take it a little easier next time, I really didn't want any marks left behind", and give him the benefit of the doubt that he didn't MEAN to bruise her, and would adjust his technique according the next time, she just ended the relationship. "You bruised me, I'm never letting you hit me ever again!" is a little over-dramatic for the situation as he described it, and I still think she overreacted to getting one bruise from the first play session.

It's like birth control....if you absolutely 100% don't want to deal with the conseqences of getting pregnant, then don't have sex at all. Because sometimes, it just happens, accidently. If she ever accidently gets pregnant, is she never going to have sex again?

_____________________________

You know it's going to be a GOOD blow job when she puts a Breathe Right strip on first.

Pick-up artists and garbage men should trade names.

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RE: Being a Realist has it's faults. - 5/21/2009 3:39:13 PM

catize

Posts: 3020
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quote:

That being said, do you think my adamance to the fact that bruises, light mild bruises from impact play are something to be expected was too much too soon?

If there is a deal breaker, better to know sooner than later.

quote:

Would have playcating her desire not to have bruises of ANY kind have been the better thing to do?

How would you be able to do that unless you agreed you would never engage in impact play with her? As you said, no matter how mild, there is the chance of marks and bruises.

quote:

Would you appreciate someone going "Okay I understand" and then having it happen anyway at a later date with an "Ohh My How on God's Green Earth did THAT happen?"

No, I wouldn’t. I have had this happen, where a dominant said a certain activity was no big deal and he would not expect it of me, but then did make it a big deal as time went on.

quote:

I mean would you rather be blissfully Ignorant of Reality and what is more than likely an actual possibility or would you like someone who says "Them's the Lemons, lets figure out how we make Lemonade."

I prefer the latter. Ignorance is only blissful as long as you are never exposed to the reality.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

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RE: Being a Realist has it's faults. - 5/21/2009 4:10:50 PM

Prinsexx

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Reality is negotiable.

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RE: Being a Realist has it's faults. - 5/21/2009 4:17:58 PM

marie2

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Steel:

I am slightly confused.

What's the bottom line here? Are you saying that you and she can't strike a compromise on this one thing, but everything else is perfect?

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Post #: 17

RE: Being a Realist has it's faults. - 5/21/2009 4:34:01 PM

SteelofUtah

Posts: 5307
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From: St George Utah
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2

Steel:

I am slightly confused.

What's the bottom line here? Are you saying that you and she can't strike a compromise on this one thing, but everything else is perfect?

No, what I am saying is that everything was going fine and perfect until we got on the subject of playing which then went to bruising and then she said, I don't think this will work out and hung up the phone.

Literally this was the initial phone contact where we were getting to know each other and when it got onto the subject of bruising I made it clear that when I play with the nature that I play bruises happen. She then decided she could not handle that and hung up in me.

We have yet to meet in person, we have yet to get into the serious negotiations, this was a Getting to know you "So what do you want to know about me" conversation.

I am trying to figure out if my realism of the fact that impact equals trauma was something I perhaps should have saved for a later date and if that is the case how I could have handled that part of the conversation differently to have kept her from freaking out.

And with what Leadership said It all the sudden occured to me that maybe she was thinking my INTENT was to bruise her when to me it was simply a matter of fact that bruises happen and that I can't promise not to bruise you when if we play it is GOING to happen.

That said, Yes everything else was perfect she was attracted to both of us, she was okay with the Poly, she understood how I ran my house, she liked the idea that she was a person not an object, she was okay with my sexual kinks and hangups and all it came down to was that if I spank her eventually she will end up with a bruise and on that note she hung up on me.

Steel

_____________________________

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Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

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Post #: 18

RE: Being a Realist has it's faults. - 5/21/2009 4:48:38 PM

windchymes

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Joined: 4/18/2005
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Well, I misunderstood the OP. I thought they had played and she GOT a bruise and freaked out. Guess I should read more carefully.

_____________________________

You know it's going to be a GOOD blow job when she puts a Breathe Right strip on first.

Pick-up artists and garbage men should trade names.

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 19

RE: Being a Realist has it's faults. - 5/21/2009 4:54:18 PM

EmelineRose

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I think it's good you were honest. So was she. Compatability problem. Shrugs. Better luck next time.

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 20

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