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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 3:14:40 PM   
aravain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DreamGoddess666
Am I looking in the wrong place for that positive emotional support and hope?


If you're looking on these boards?

By and large, yes.

(in reply to DreamGoddess666)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 3:16:34 PM   
DarkSteven


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Lindsey, you are separating posts into those that make you feel good, and those that make you feel bad.  Try those that tell you that you're great, and those that tell you that you need work.

Your attitude is that you don't need to so anything for anyone.  Bluntly, you're getting cut off from friends and family, you're not working, and you say that groups reject you.

Time for a change.

Try rereading the posts you don't like, and keep pushing your emotions down.  See if the posts have any validity.  You owe it to yourself.




_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to aravain)
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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 3:17:42 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DreamGoddess666
if you can't be nice, don't talk to me.

You may have started this thread, but people aren't just talking to you.  The thread is going to be archived here as long as the Collarchat boards exist, and anyone running a search for the phrase "transsexuals" will be able to find it.  Besides, if you look at the number of "hits," you can see that many people have read the thread already.  I bet not all of them are straight.

Other people may be willing to listen to things that are "not-nice," even if you won't.  You do them a disservice by asking posters not to give their best advice possible.  You won't be the last person in your current situation, and you won't be the last person in great pain because of a "deviant" sexual identity.

Good luck.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to DreamGoddess666)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 3:20:16 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DreamGoddess666

Comments like that are only gonna start a fight with someone like me. I don't take kindly to harshness. It only pisses me off more. All you do when you talk like that is drown out the positive support others are trying to show me. What's wrong with you people? Is it that hard to treat a person with common decency and respect? You're just illustrating my points for me, really. All the negative comments you people are making are completely overshadowing the positive ones others are making.

I haven't rejected anything but the bullying and the "tough love" responses. I can't and won't take that crap.

Again, if you can't be nice, just go away.


i have never seen anyone get that upset over well thought out and helpful replies on here.

i venture to guess that your problems meeting someone have nothing to do with your being a tg, and have everything to do with your attitude.  it sucks big time.

but im making popcorn for when someone is a bit rude or mean to ya!





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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 3:23:18 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtlebutterfly
I honestly think being a transsexual is least of your problems right now, like many have said. Go and seek out counseling or some kind of guidance you do seem to need it.

Quite. She got lots of good advice from people that I respect for giving it, including me.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: DreamGoddess666
You try losing everything that ever mattered to you in your life in the span of a few months and then come talk to me.

Who is the common factor in these losses? You.
 
Now obey me: Go find professional psychological and medical help.

(in reply to subtlebutterfly)
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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 3:25:48 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DreamGoddess666
snip
NO ONE has the right to tell me I'm not a real woman, 
snip


actually, everyone does have the right to tell you that-free speech and all that.

you have the CHOICE to decide if you allow it to bother you.

_____________________________

yep

(in reply to DreamGoddess666)
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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 4:16:27 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
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FR:
 
It may be that this hate-Lindsey-hype among lesbians is simply a pecking order reflex? Chickens will peck the strange, weird chicken. If that is the case, countermeasures may be devised, like for example to make sure that they do not perceive her as a stranger.

(in reply to GreedyTop)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 4:20:29 PM   
Lockit


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Op, you have exibited here from hearing things you didn't like... anger, threatening violence because of how you have been treated all your life and you justify your anger and right to fight back, you have mentioned suicide, expect things to go the way you want them to, you wish to control what is said to you and not said, you are upset because friends lied... but you said they were tired of putting up with you, you have shown a self focus that isn't healthy, made blanket statements about groups of people and have played the victim in life and here.

Your problem isn't being post op or transgendered or anything but... wounded and unable to get past the wounds to live healthy.  You take things so personally and are so easily offended that people will question how you view things and if there is more to the stories.  Especially when what you claim doesn't compare with things they have seen and experienced with people or groups you say won't accept you.

You don't want tough love or any answer other than... poor lil victim... so sorry... here let us hug you and love you. 

I am not accepted and liked by some people.  I wasn't treated fairly when I was different from others.. but I was not going to be victim to anyone and I wasn't going to see the world as out to get me and expect everyone to treat me a certain way.  You are no different than any other human being.  Even those who have had similar experiences as you have had, said you were working it wrong.

You need love just like others need love and when they don't get it, they can claim lots of reasons why they aren't loved and cruel things said to them.  You should hear some of the things said to me and how I am rejected almost every single day of my life because of what and who I am.

You want love... start with loving yourself.  You want someone to be with... stop being a victim and seeing yourself as a victim... no one wants a victim.  Most couldn't imagine my being rejected constantly.  Do you see me here boohooing and asking for everyone to be nice to me and only speak in a way I want them to?  I dare say I suffered as much abuse, unfair treatment and cruelty from a young age as you have.  How you responded to that is different than how I responded.  Stop feeling sorry for yourself and get out there...in life and make a difference.  It is up to you... not one other person in life. Period.

What are you good at?  Do that... what is specail about you... highlight it... Make yourself better and show all the bad guys they were wrong about you.  Right now with your pity party... you are proving the bad guys had a point. 

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


(in reply to GreedyTop)
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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 4:33:04 PM   
DreamGoddess666


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Joined: 5/21/2009
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Whatever. Bugger off. I'm not gonna listen to the absolute crap being spouted off. I especially am not gonna listen to people tell me I'm lying when I talk about what's happened to me, which is essentially what a lot of people are doing when they say "oh they didn't reject you.abandon you because of what you say, they abandoned you/rejected you for 'X' reason. You didn't live my life. I have. I'm not gonna tolerate being put down or essentially called a liar anymore!

All this has done is reinforced what I already suspected of people.

EDIT: Oh, and I especially don't like when people say or imply that I need to get a job. If I could work, I would be, so take your comments and stick 'em where the sun don't shine.

< Message edited by DreamGoddess666 -- 5/23/2009 4:39:49 PM >

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 4:39:57 PM   
aravain


Posts: 1211
Joined: 8/26/2008
Status: offline
~FR~

If you thought I was calling you a liar, you're a fair bit off. I was trying to do what others need to do for me sometimes... that is: try and give you a chance to see it from the perspectives of other people.

(in reply to DreamGoddess666)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 4:49:02 PM   
RedMagic1


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Joined: 5/10/2007
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Dysphoria is a common side effect of gender reassignment.  Dysphoria meaning: "the whole world looks like shit."  How much of that is chemical, and how much emotional because of being "outside society" I don't know.  Maybe nobody does.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to GreedyTop)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 5:16:59 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DreamGoddess666

Whatever. Bugger off. I'm not gonna listen to the absolute crap being spouted off. I especially am not gonna listen to people tell me I'm lying when I talk about what's happened to me, which is essentially what a lot of people are doing when they say "oh they didn't reject you.abandon you because of what you say, they abandoned you/rejected you for 'X' reason. You didn't live my life. I have. I'm not gonna tolerate being put down or essentially called a liar anymore!

All this has done is reinforced what I already suspected of people.

EDIT: Oh, and I especially don't like when people say or imply that I need to get a job. If I could work, I would be, so take your comments and stick 'em where the sun don't shine.


why can you not work?  im not being a smartass, i swear.  there is a valid point to the question.

_____________________________

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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 5:20:28 PM   
JuliaGreenleaf


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First and foremost, Dreamgoddess666, you are beautiful :) - I think that with life and work you will find a wonderful partner - you need to be more careful with people who are interested in you because you are trans (much sillness out there) - however, i always am honest and try my best and it seems to work out.
You don't need to tell people you are trans immediately but if things seem to be getting serious then it's usually a good idea. If you are rejected there is simply nothing you can do but politely and quietly move on.
If you want real advice , go to a website called tsroadmap.com run by Andrea James , Calpernia Adams and Lynn Conway.

I'd like to refute a number of horrible misunderstandings people have about trans people, that have been laid out by certain posters on this board. Unfortunately, a lot of people are still incredibly prejudiced about us because their understanding of gender is based on a natal-assigned model. This in the case of trans people is just simply false and wrong.
Trans people are the gender we say we are - ie male to female trans are female, and female to male trans are male. It is that simple. Brain and soul sex are the end all and be all of this. Let's face it - bodies in the end, with proper intervention at an early age, are very mutable. I do not see my body as 'male' because of it's chromosomes. It is a female body . I've got nice hair, smooth limbs, i'm tall and slim and pretty. My current preop status is more than a bit annoying, but i don't consider that part to actually be what most people refer to it as. My ex boyfriend did a lot of work mentally to get me to see it as just an injury, not something defining to my identity. At first, while I believed it defined who I was , I was suicidal - now, that my life is together, and I am near surgery , I find it incredibly annoying and somewhat ugly, but I know that the reconstructive techniques used in a vaginoplasty will give me a wonderful vagina. I 'process' sexual stimuli in a female/sub way - ie subspace, intense pleasure from getting breasts hurt, ect. I generally feel uncomfortable if the down below area of my body is not flat - and my foreskin /which will become clitoris is generally far more important to me than anything else - IE - i am not male / instead my brain processes things in a female way, and the biology isn't quite right yet. I am very sure, and have read many, many accounts of transsexual women who are postop, that when things are complete, we can orgasm just fine, and if you get a competant surgeon, your vagina is quite beautiful. The ONLY difference between us and cisgender women functionality wise is that we need lubrication before intercourse, and that we don't mensturate (which could be seen to be a good thing).
I am really not terribly fond of cisgender women condeming trans women as 'not women' because we got here via a different route. This is simply bigotry and anti transgender prejudice. Trans liberation theory refers to a thing called cisgender privilage. This is the privilage enjoyed by eveyone who has not had to question their gender in their lives - IE most people who are not gender variant. The key insights are these - trans people are born with fundamentally different brains that render them a member of the gender that they say they are. People do not accept this because our society is quite prejudiced about assigning people to one gender role, and not having that change. This is common across straight and gay and lesbian communities. Being trans is difficult at times - but all of this difficulty comes from the societal discrimination we experience from others who do not accept us as who we are. I say this clearly to all the cisgender people out there who choose to condemn trans and refuse to believe us when we simply want to be ourselves. You have enjoyed your entire life the privilage of being born into the right body, including social, and economic benefits. To condemn trans or tell us to 'cheer up', when we experience great difficulty hardship and stress is the same as a white person looking down at a black person and saying the same things in the days of segregation. It is outright bigotry. One of the great tricks of being trans is getting past this phase, and simply being able to live one's life - I have due to reflection on history - I realize that while I am a member of a discriminated against group today , I am fairly lucky in that I am passable, and people do not need to know if I do not tell them. I believe in a Goddess, and I was given great intelligence to help me adapt to being born trans this life. If my actions and life can educate people as to the wisdom of spirits being more important than outer shells, then let it be so.
All that being said, people definitely have the right to be with the partner of their choice. The proper etiquette our community has developed internally is to tell people after a little while, when things are getting serious and it seems appropriate. I certainly refuse to let others define me as anything other than a woman because it is a falsehood, but if the issue of my genetic structure is relevant to others then i mention it.
Generally I find I have had more luck with men than lesbian women - some men are actually more accepting of feminine (trans) women who look after their appearance and have smooth limbs, nice breasts ect.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 5:21:46 PM   
LaTigresse


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This really is a very tragic thread. It breaks my heart that someone is so focused on their own pain and misery that they cannot see the forest for the virtual trees. A lot of people here would be so very supportive, but they are being attacked and shoved away.

I really do not think anything positive can be achieved by communicating via this medium, in this instance.

I would love to be proven wrong.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to RedMagic1)
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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 5:27:05 PM   
JuliaGreenleaf


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Joined: 4/15/2009
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hm , 'dysphoria is a common effect of gender reassignment'
Sorry - yet more trans-prejudice
"Gender Dysphoria" is the term that refers to the feeling of wrongness we have before we manage to set our bodies right. It is an outdated psychiatric term that trans people have co-operated with largely to give legitimacy to obtaining insurance coverage for treatment, or simply to gain access to treatment through the hoops that a cisgender world has set up for us to jump through.
We as a community are working on removing gender dysphoria from the DSM - (it is oppressive, just like gayness or lesbianness being part of the DSM.) We are trying to replace it with "gender incongruency syndrome" which more correctly describes the mal-feeling as a physical one, with the cause being the incongruency of body, rather than a perfectly healthy male or female mind.

(in reply to aravain)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 5:34:35 PM   
JuliaGreenleaf


Posts: 66
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To dreamgoddess specifically:

Hun, please don't grow angry, or give up in dispair. I was like that too , some time ago. I learnt to let go of the pain in my heart a while ago, and forgive. I had help - the love of a very good man, my first boyfriend, Josh, with whom I lived for 8 years.
Life for us at times can be difficult, especially if people know of our transgender status. Please , consider going stealth. It is simpler sometimes if people do not know about what they refuse to understand. We have tried to explain this as a people time and time again, and while our efforts are working, and we are winning the fight slowly (tsroadmap.com :)  - people can be silly and refuse to understand simply because they are prejudiced.

Please try and let go of the pain - you are loved. You are valued. Hug.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 5:37:08 PM   
RedMagic1


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I know you mean well, Julia Greenleaf, but it is a bit ironic that you accuse me of prejudice when you said you know your body is feminine because you have nice hair, smooth skin and are slim and pretty.  Do you mean to say that the women who have nappy hair, age spots and a gut are not feminine?  To me it sounds as though you are saying that a woman is a real woman if she's hotttt.  So you are carrying society's prejudices inside you, even though you are so willing to say I am prejudiced because I used a medical term accepted by national and international psychiatric organizations.

Besides, the opening poster of this thread sure seems to have a bad case of "the world looks like shit"-itis, all big words aside.  Know what I mean?


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to JuliaGreenleaf)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 5:44:11 PM   
DreamGoddess666


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Joined: 5/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JuliaGreenleaf

First and foremost, Dreamgoddess666, you are beautiful :) - I think that with life and work you will find a wonderful partner - you need to be more careful with people who are interested in you because you are trans (much sillness out there) - however, i always am honest and try my best and it seems to work out.


To everything you posted, thank you and bravo. You really put it all into words far better than I did.

@RedMagic1: Try "the world treats me like shit"-itis. I wasn't always so bitter and upset. I got this way BECAUSE of the things I went through, not vice versa.

Maybe it is time to go deep stealth. I pass more than well enough. Until the world can actually get a clue and people start treating transsexuals with respect, I will not be letting people know of my status. It's not worth the hassle, and only bad things can come from people telling me I'm not a real woman because I would most definitely get nasty with such people.

(in reply to JuliaGreenleaf)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 5:46:12 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
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i can see going "stealth" as you shop, dine out, ride your bike, etc.

but before going on a date, or flirting, imho, you should let the other person know.  no matter how much you feel you are a real woman, the fact that you once had a penis is enough to make you a no no to many.  lying, by omission of info is never right, imho.

this is a kink site, a quick search found many who seek, or are open to, tg persons. 

_____________________________

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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 5:46:57 PM   
JuliaGreenleaf


Posts: 66
Joined: 4/15/2009
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Actually, generally I believe you are a woman period, if you truly deep down feel that is what you are, it is a consistent belief, and have taken serious steps in your life to realize that.
I believe you are a man period, if you truly deep down feel that is what you are, it is a consistent belief, and have taken serious steps in your life to realize that.
My spirit is feminine ,and i a more of a femme/sub than butch. I choose to be this way because it is my heart - essence. I want to be pretty - being female is something i have done while also being ugly as heck, in baggy pants.
I've been a woman since I had any choice in the matter at all, making most serious choices in my life to support this.

As for medical terms, the trans termnology of those organizations was largely build and developed by cisgender doctors exploiting trans people to build their own career, and categorize and label us by their terms, refusing to understand the world according to our reality or listen to us. This is now changing as trans people are becoming empowered, and able to think and speak for ourselves.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 100
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