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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 5:48:08 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Many people on this thread have come to love someone who is transgendered and have been blessed by her in many ways.  Sometimes things are not a gender issue and are more a mental health issue... whatever the cause.  Anger is one of those mental health things.  Looking at life in certain ways and getting stuck there is an emotional and mental health issue. To call some who might call out that anger problem for what it is as prejudice... isn't accorate, especailly when some are transgendered and other's know and love some who are transgendered.  Why would we accept them and not another?

It is the attitude, the victim mode and the all-round way of looking at life experince and pain and the response to it all.

We are not heartless around here.  But if one wants help and is upset, they need to see that they can draw that to themselves or push it away with how they act and react.

Don't assume it is prejudice alone.

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Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 5:56:34 PM   
JuliaGreenleaf


Posts: 66
Joined: 4/15/2009
Status: offline 		Flirting - NO - I don't have a duty to go around with a big sign on my head that says I AM TRANS just so you can discriminate against me because you looked at me and found me hot.

SERIOUSLY dating - yes - I told my first boyfriend the second or third time we met, when we sat down and had a serious chat about becoming longterm.

I'm currently looking for something serious in the D/s vein, so my profile says - it's vital to the trust in a D/s relationship. I knew this before starting down this path . Overall, i've recieved a fair amount of interest (thanks people).

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Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 5:58:13 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		I know what it is like to hate your body.  I know what it is like to be judged by how your body looks, no matter what you think about it.  I know what it is like to fight people who hated my body and how it looked and how other's responded to it.  I know what it is like to be sexually abused because of my body.  I know what it is like to be a tiny lil girl and have even adults looking at me with lust because part of me wasn't a little girl.  I know what it is like to be abused, mishandled, to hate my life and body and to resent others who were mean.

No I was not transgendered and cannot know the pain there, but pain is pain and abuse is abuse and we must find a way to get ourselves through it.  Getting stuck in... I am the only one... no one understands.. no one will love me... no one will be nice... no one gets me... is a personal problem that many have no matter the gender, the problem or life experience.  I don't care who you are... you must... you must.. you must... find yourself, heal and move on because people can be mean and idiots.

You can sit around and blame others for how you feel and never move on or you can see that you are not alone in this life and others have known suffering and pain and worked through it, but you cannot continue to blame others for how you feel and give excuses for continuing to be the wounded person or victim.  It is all about finding your way to healing, healing and moving on with life.  Life isn't always on your terms... but you can find a way to live despite life's terms.

< Message edited by Lockit -- 5/23/2009 6:02:30 PM >

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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 5:58:25 PM   
DreamGoddess666


Posts: 88
Joined: 5/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

i can see going "stealth" as you shop, dine out, ride your bike, etc.

but before going on a date, or flirting, imho, you should let the other person know.  no matter how much you feel you are a real woman, the fact that you once had a penis is enough to make you a no no to many.  lying, by omission of info is never right, imho.

this is a kink site, a quick search found many who seek, or are open to, tg persons.


A lie is a deception. I'm not deceiving anyone by being a woman and not revealing my private medical history. How is it anyone's business but mine?

Hate to say it, but I'm not looking for a "tranny-chaser". I'm not gonna let myself be defined as transsexual. I'm a woman. Anyone who's got a problem with that designation can, quite frankly, kiss my ass.

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Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 6:01:07 PM   
JuliaGreenleaf


Posts: 66
Joined: 4/15/2009
Status: offline 		- True about anger, and people not being entirely prejudiced - generally there is a better and worse way to act period about your life - this I understand. if someone is hurting, it pushes people away..

Generally my current words and actions are of a liberation-theorist trying to change the world so trans people are more accepted as the men and women we are. We have good and bad people, together and not-so together people in our community just like anyone else. I have personally cut connections with people i find to be dysfunctional. I have been dysfunctional - and was helped by the love of a wonderful man.

Speaking about prejudice and discrimination is my attempt to change the very real unfairness in the world towards transpeople. This is very real, similar to the situation of African American people in the 60's-70's.
We are working on it. Things are changing. This is why I write and speak.

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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 6:03:37 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DreamGoddess666

quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

i can see going "stealth" as you shop, dine out, ride your bike, etc.

but before going on a date, or flirting, imho, you should let the other person know.  no matter how much you feel you are a real woman, the fact that you once had a penis is enough to make you a no no to many.  lying, by omission of info is never right, imho.

this is a kink site, a quick search found many who seek, or are open to, tg persons.


A lie is a deception. I'm not deceiving anyone by being a woman and not revealing my private medical history. How is it anyone's business but mine?

Hate to say it, but I'm not looking for a "tranny-chaser". I'm not gonna let myself be defined as transsexual. I'm a woman. Anyone who's got a problem with that designation can, quite frankly, kiss my ass.


that is your choice, and as long as you are willing to face the possible consequences for that choice, more power to you.

again i ask, why can you not work?

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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 6:11:32 PM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline 		Lindsay

What is the real problem here? What is it we're not seeing and not reading? Quality judgments aside, what is it you're hoping to find here?

Pardon the little pissing contest here, but you know I've lost a lot of people from my life, not to mention the best part of 15 years of artistic work, homes, jobs, and $250,000, I'm still some way away from surgery, but there's some things nobody can ever take away from me, who I am, my sense of self, my inner strength, and that hope that tomorrow is going to come and I'm going to find it turns out to be one better day.

You see to me the surgery, the hormones, and all that these things aren't really all that important, it's just the icing on the cake, the packaging, the most important part of the transition the 'female' that is me and which lies within, this has been recognized and that to me is the most important aspect of the whole transition. This transition is mainly work which I have to do to bring myself out to other people, to be myself, to work out my issues and get on with my life, with living. It's getting up every day and living which is the real transition, and this process is really not that much different from becoming a woman anyway. The transition is something which goes on inside, all the hormones, endocrynology and surgery merely enhance it.

You see, each and every person here who has posted on this thread has lost someone, or even has lost people who were close to them, they know what it's like to be hurting, to be alone, isolated, and some know what it feels like when your whole life collapses into nothing much more than a heap of broken dreams and dashed hopes. But what is it that makes you, or me for that matter, any different from them?

I'm picking up on a lot of anger and bitterness, confrontation, and I have to ask who are you fighting, why are you fighting, and what are you hoping to gain through fighting?

Wouldn't it be much better to stop fighting a society and a world that you cannot change, and instead work more at being yourself, and being comfortable with yourself and just getting on with life?

The crap and issues you have to go through with other people isn't really any different from what I and everyone else here has to go through. Some people don't like me, some don't accept me, quite a few don't understand and never will, and you know, that's alright with me. You can call it personal preference, discrimination, freedom of speech, you can call it whatever you like, it's no skin off my nose.

I'm more interested in the people who do accept me and like me, the people who try to understand, the ones who get to know me as I really am, the happy, complete Stella being myself, because life is short, too short, too short for anger and fighting and conflicts. Far better to work at creating happy memories and feelings because these are all that's going to be left when I'm gone.

So what is it Lindsay? What is it you're trying to communicate and we're not getting?

Stella

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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 6:24:27 PM   
JuliaGreenleaf


Posts: 66
Joined: 4/15/2009
Status: offline 		I think our generation of trans people is pushing for full acceptance and assimilation.
I look forward to the day when .. a transwoman is seen as a woman with a neovagina instead of a natal woman with a normal vagina.
The 'trying to categorize us by our chromosomes and make us go back to something we never really were so people can feel more comfortable about their universe' thing is very destructive.

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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 6:36:13 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		It was also dystructive when African American's were enslaved... when women didn't have the vote and in cases of divorce the men got the um's.  When women still to this day most often are paid less than men.  When men lost custody to women later on simply because they were a man.  When someone different is treated badly.  There is a lot of injustice in the world and many causes to fight for.  But know who your enemy is.. know when to do battle and know when an unhealthy attitude will do a disservice to your cause or yourself.

One cannot justify poor emotional or mental health with a cause.  I mean they can.. but see what fruit comes of it.

I have fought many causes in life and you simply have to find a way to get yourself though what ever injustice there is in a healthy manner.  You want change?  Change yourself. If you are going to be angry you will be less effective and will do actual harm, preventing people from seeing the cause rather than the angry one pushing an agenda.

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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 6:51:50 PM   
JuliaGreenleaf


Posts: 66
Joined: 4/15/2009
Status: offline 		hehe, I hate arguing with the clan mothers but comments about balls and thailand are just as bad as some things I could say about GG women and won't.

On negativity - totally - go out and heal your soul and overcome and make the world a better place, totally. I'm just here to say that trans go through 9 kinds of hell, especially if we disclose. It's no wonder that most of us who are finished just dissapear when it's over. When I've found a match, i'm probably going to delete this profile and quietly step out of the room.

Just doing my part for the cause. For my sisters who have to come after me and go through 9 kinds of hell before they are accepted as who they are. For trans people who don't enjoy the passing privilage that i do .
Just doing my part.

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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 6:55:34 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		If one always views themselves as different... how can anyone prove they accept them for who they are.  The personal view will override the external.

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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 6:56:15 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Yippie skippy for your 9 kinds of hell. Here is your medal.

What you do not seem to be getting and the OP certainly isn't........A LOT of people go through 9 kinds of hell for some reason or another. Some of us realized that playing the "oh poor me" victim is not the grown up, positive, way of coping.

Those of us that have found the strength and fortitude to overcome and embrace, do not have a lot of patience for professional victims. Whatever their particular hell is.

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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 7:02:58 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DreamGoddess666

Actually it's hard to be positive. I've been blown off across multiple dating sites simply for being transsexual. I'm always honest up front. I'm a caring and loving person, but I'm transsexual. I'm a good person and a very gentle and tender person usually, but in the last eight months, I lost all my friends, most of my family, and can't get a date with anyone, all over my transsexuality and people's "discomfort" with it. It's gotten old and I've gotten bitter. I have no positive experiences to show for my honesty. I'm hurting, bad. I don't really have any positivity left in me because I lost everything and everyone that ever meant anything to me. If you could only understand, fathom what that kind of loss does to a person's self-esteem . . .

As for why they should know better . . . Gays and lesbians face the discrimination of the religious right on a daily basis. They should thus be above discrimination because they should understand how hurtful it is. Being against discrimination and then discriminating is called hypocracy.

This is the first forum I've found where I could vent these frustrations and talk about my problems. Most others, this is too "taboo" to talk about. I wanna experience new things. I want to be adventurous. I wanna learn more. Problem is, no one is willing to give me a chance. I've gotten to the point of giving up hope.


I feel your pain! I am the Queen of France! Ever since I was five.. I have felt that I was the Queen of France! I have the crown and the septre, I can seak French (sorta) and I really can cook French cuisine. I even had my hair and makeup done in the French style. I wear the latest french couture. Now really, I AM the Queen of France but no one wants to associate with me because I don't have the "credentials". Something about a bloodline and legalities of citizenship and heritage. Pah! Don't they know I FEEL like the Queen???? INSIDE I AM the QUEEN!!!! Those ignorant bastards! Just because I was born in the States of German/Hungarian heritage. They even say I need to seek HELP for my "delusions"!!!!

(Sound a bit far fetched? Feeling hypocritcal yet?)

< Message edited by LotusSong -- 5/23/2009 7:04:50 PM >

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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 7:04:06 PM   
KyttynTheMynx


Posts: 4880
Joined: 5/10/2006
From: Moosecrotch, Va
Status: offline 		Lindsey, believe it or not, but at one point or another in our lives, we have all been told we arent good enough due to what and who we are.  I am 22, and I may not have faced as many hardships as you have, but I know where you are (sort of) coming from.  I've been told that I wasnt good enough because I am a fat chick.  Not good enough because I am black.  Not good enough because I am "too white".    Not good enough because I am bisexual, and well that just spells out cheater in some peoples eyes. 

My point is, I took all that some people see as negative and I turned them positive.  I am happy to be the fat-black-pseudowhite-bi-girl.  I know that I have friends who love me as I am, and thats all that matters.  If Group XYZ cant accept me fuck them.

My mama always told me "You know who and what you are.  Dont let the assholes try to make you feel bad because of it"  I have carried that with me all my life.  I am passing that piece of advice to you.  If you are a woman, then gawddammit, youre a woman!  Just because you aint got all the odds and ends I was born with doesnt mean a damn thing.  Its legally recognized, and fuck the nay sayers.  They are just there to piss on your head and tell you is rain. 

Somewhere in the world, there are people who want to know and love you.  The negativity you have shown will make that hard for them to do.  You have to rise above the shit, put it behind you, and learn from it.  It will make you stronger.  You will find that happy place.  But it all starts with you making a difference in yourself.


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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 7:08:04 PM   
JuliaGreenleaf


Posts: 66
Joined: 4/15/2009
Status: offline 		Question: Is your comment about "9 kinds of hell" a sort of covert jab at - you have these chromosomes/anatomy- you obviously must enjoy male privilage and think you are entitled - and thus since you are now OMG a woman you feel all bad. (typical old school genetic woman misnomer about trans).

I am here specifically to help my trans sisters (and brothers) fight for our liberation in this time and place to make the world better for us all.

And yes, I've been a woman since my EARLY 20's - ever since I had any choice in the matter without getting SERIOUSLY hurt. In school i was a shy, pacifist geek kid who sang soprano and only didn't seriously get beaten up because i went to a preppy school where that kind of thing didn't USUALLY happen. I've been a feminist since I was about 5 and mom went back to work and told us about the right way things should be. I've marched. I believe in the cause. I just find out now what being a submissive woman means - and yes, i've finally reconciled it with my beliefs.
So I've experienced the same pay/career discrimination thing - I'm bravely putting my life back together studying to be legal support personnel, working minimum wage jobs.

Yes - I am a woman - and was long before i even considered becoming sub. If all this were to go away. I'd still be a woman.
And it doesn't bother me at all. It's worth it in the end.
I was pretty, and could love people :)
Kinda nice realization that in the end.

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Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 7:12:35 PM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		FR
I am sorry for your pain.

Had you gone through the procedure here, you might have been better prepared emotionally for what transitioning would mean in the practical scope of your life.

Finding the path to acceptance: both self-acceptance and from others is going to be very difficult as long as you are so combative.

Many people have offered you their experience and insight and unless is is fluffy-bunny stuff you have taken it as an attack.

In all honesty, I think you are so sensitive that you are perceiving meanness and ill intent when none are present.

I think you are looking for some sort of validation.
The problem is I am not sure there is enough external validation to fix the hole inside of you.
Your unresolved grief has made you embittered.

Without realising it, I think you push people away.

This is not meant as "mean".
I think making new connections with people and forging meaningful relationships is going to be extremely difficult as long as you are so confrontational.
There simply does not seem to be any space for anything new within you; much in the way a full cup won't hold any more water.

Could you perhaps find a support group to hold you over until you have your appointment... if none is available then perhaps an on-line community.
You want what we all want:
Acceptance, affection, support, understanding and love.

Isolation and loneliness are difficult companions.


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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 7:12:37 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		This is a general reply and question and musing and insight not directed until the end at anyone in particular but

There is a concept of acceptance and a concept of HAVE TO AGREE. Just because trans people want people to view them a certain way doesn't mean that people wish to do so or want to do so or can do so. You can't have it both ways - - you can't say accept me and not accept some people won't and that is THEIR RIGHT just as yours to disagree with them (they disagree with you -- see how that works)-- ESPECIALLY when it comes to intimate relationships.

It always blows my mind and what i will never understand is why trans people are incapable of understanding the reality and actuality of what they are asking people to do and they haven't even taken into consideration THEIR OWN EXPERIENCE that brought them to the point in their lives, the struggles to understand, the self-doubts, the years of confusion and not understanding, the self-acceptance. I mean seriously are trans people so selfish that they believe people who haven't had a lifetime of experience dealing with such and a lifetime of coming to terms with it should just miraculously understand, accept, and say yeah i know you use to be a Man but it doesn't matter to me? I mean for MOST transpeople this has been an utter focus and struggle and discovery that even they many times didn't accept, didn't understand, and fought with and disregarded many times. Yet people who give a cursory consideration to it must simply accept, understand, and get it to the point of welcoming with open arms.

Sorry, but to me this is a very selfish attitude to base acceptance on and to expect people to miraculously understand when it too most trans people years and lifetimes to understand. Why is it that its okay for trans people to go through a lifetime of understanding this, who have years of finaly coming to terms with it simply expect everyone else to just

"get it and accept it and moreso understand it." Just because they finally got it, everyone else should be better than them in coming to the conclusion of understanding and acceptance?


Maybe i am missing something here -- but if it many times takes a lifetime of someone living in a body (LIVING IN A BODY) to determine that something is wrong with that body, how do they expect other people to understand and accept the need to become not only a different body but a different sex, a different life, a different person?

In general, i could care less what someone decides to do with themselves, however, when that person enters my life i have to make determinations that are best FOR ME, and if what they have choosen is not something i can come to terms with, not something i can accept, and something i may not want IN MY LIFE, i have a right and a choice and the ability to determine same -- whether its a person who is trans, a person who does drugs, a person who has a personality i don't like or can't get along with, a person who brings drama into my life i don't want etc etc.

The very fact people make choices, doesn't mean MY ability to choose should be taken away ESPECIALLy in an intimate relationship. It always flabbergasts me that people who make choices such as this thread etc believe their choices are what MUST be accepted beause its right for them yet other people's choices are wrong or incorrect even though those choices are for them. Do other people see the hypocricy in this idea?


In the end its pretty simple -- if your choices begin to effect my life in a way i don't appreciate -- i don't HAVE To accept them or understand them or even try too if i don't wish too and have a right to negate the consequences of your decisions have on my life. If that means you aren't accepted as my date, my partner, my lover, my friend -- so be it. A Trans person choices in their life are NOT and NEVER WILL BE more important than the choices i have for my life. So it comes to a catch 22, my choices aren't more important or shouldn't be than the choices others have for their life -- so in the end, you pretty much use these as guidelines for people you allow in your life or to MATTER in your life. The rest are simply passing by and you choose whether to disregard or to allow into your life on a more inserting level.

Lindsey, seriously, no one in this thread knows you -- have you considered that maybe just maybe what you are portraying is why people are commenting as they are? You have the observations here from strangers, people who don't know you from Adam. Yet you are saying they are doing the same thing others do in your life. To me that says a lot, not about the people who are commenting but about you and perhaps its time to figure out maybe what you portray to they world isn't what you wish to do so and THAT is what you need to work on instead of blaming everyone else for your misery.



angel



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Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 7:20:34 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JuliaGreenleaf

Question: Is your comment about "9 kinds of hell" a sort of covert jab at - you have these chromosomes/anatomy- you obviously must enjoy male privilage and think you are entitled - and thus since you are now OMG a woman you feel all bad. (typical old school genetic woman misnomer about trans).

I am here specifically to help my trans sisters (and brothers) fight for our liberation in this time and place to make the world better for us all.

And yes, I've been a woman since my EARLY 20's - ever since I had any choice in the matter without getting SERIOUSLY hurt. In school i was a shy, pacifist geek kid who sang soprano and only didn't seriously get beaten up because i went to a preppy school where that kind of thing didn't USUALLY happen. I've been a feminist since I was about 5 and mom went back to work and told us about the right way things should be. I've marched. I believe in the cause. I just find out now what being a submissive woman means - and yes, i've finally reconciled it with my beliefs.
So I've experienced the same pay/career discrimination thing - I'm bravely putting my life back together studying to be legal support personnel, working minimum wage jobs.

Yes - I am a woman - and was long before i even considered becoming sub. If all this were to go away. I'd still be a woman.
And it doesn't bother me at all. It's worth it in the end.
I was pretty, and could love people :)
Kinda nice realization that in the end.


Now see, you are seeing a war tactic that wasn't even close to being there!

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 7:52:38 PM   
JuliaGreenleaf


Posts: 66
Joined: 4/15/2009
Status: offline 		The queen of france stuff is pretty bad. It's basically saying that transpeople are deluded. Given that there are actually quite a lot of us these days, and that we all seem to transition, live as woman (or men if we go that way), and lead healthy, happy and productive lives if we get that far, this is a bit silly , at best.
I guess my point is this : We really are telling the truth. People treating trans people differently really is wrong and a form of discrimination. Your choice of partner is up to you - including history, social status, appearance ect. We all have standards, some of which debatably are unfair. I'm just asking you to reconsider- treating trans people drastically differently and refusing to accept us as women even if we are postop is wrong. It is a false thing - I am absolutely sure of who I am and I'm precisely the same in that knowledge as the 5-6 million or more other trans women in North America- therefor I am HARDLY alone, and this HARDLY some sort of delusion, considering I have felt this way MY ENTIRE LIFE. If someone ultimately excludes me from relationship because I am trans it doesn't bother me - but I am not going to sit in a little segregated, isolated corner just so everyone else is safe. We are consistently treated this way if we disclose, shunned and isolated by some (Although in my home city's GLBT community, things are pretty good ) - and people wonder why we are a bit upset.... the answer is obvious. Discrimination and segregation.
I'm not here to start a war. My main concern is the untransitioned younger trans people who are the future of our community. They are the ones forced to endure horrible conditions, like prostitution for a living in your typical 'trans' bar. Changing attitudes to allow people to be who they are earlier is vital.
When I started my transition, i figured gays and lesbians would be allies. Lo and behold, I found out lesbians were some of the most prejudiced people against us, and hated us just because of our chromosomes. I noted it down under "things to avoid". It's gotten slightly better over the years, but still can be highly silly. I generally carefully date men now. It makes things a lot simpler.

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/23/2009 7:57:34 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel
The very fact people make choices, doesn't mean MY ability to choose should be taken away
Indeed. Someone chose to post on these collarme forums and today I have chosen to hide the posts of that person from my sight. I feel better for it.
 
As for the slave girl bitch, I am starting to get fed up with all the drama and theatrics and "poor me it aint my fault but theirs victim role", and shockingly find myself turning all Gorean. Her relatives and friends might have done well to give her a taste of the whip and to command her to do the dishes or whatever else she is good at or useful at.

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 120
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