RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s absolutely torture" (Full Version)

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DomKen -> RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s absolutely torture" (5/23/2009 10:50:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual
im not moving anything. The other techniques were mentioned previously and I included them here. "Everyone who supported it who has submitted to it" has changed their mind? "

I personally know about 80 people who submitted to it who didnt change their mind  (Marines at Camp Pendleton who were waterboarded as part of training) , so there you are just dead wrong. And since we are talking about techniques used on people with military training, their experience is far more relevant than a bad imitation of Scott Ferrall.

Now you're claiming marines who underwent SERE training talked about it. Which is a violation of the National Security Act. Now since that point is driven home quite thoroughly in USN SERE training I strongly doubt that the USMC, which is if anything more careful about such matters, failed to make it clear. So in short either the jarheads were talking out their ass, quite possible, or you are.


It is not a violation of the NSA. Care to figure out why?

SERE is classified. Any discussion of what went on in SERE is a felony.


Incorrect.

You're full of it. SERE level C content is classified. Level C is where resistance to torture is taught.




ModeratorEleven -> RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s absolutely torture" (5/23/2009 10:52:40 PM)

Folks, trim your quotes please.

XI





CruelNUnsual -> RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s absolutely torture" (5/23/2009 11:03:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

You're full of it. SERE level C content is classified. Level C is where resistance to torture is taught.


Only portions are classified. The fact that waterboarding is part of training is not. It hasnt been since the Army SERE manual was declassified about 15 years ago. You can find numerous discussions of the training by military personnel. In  fact waterboarding as part of SERE training was discussed in the memos that Blowboy released.




DomKen -> RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s absolutely torture" (5/24/2009 12:09:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

You're full of it. SERE level C content is classified. Level C is where resistance to torture is taught.


Only portions are classified. The fact that waterboarding is part of training is not. It hasnt been since the Army SERE manual was declassified about 15 years ago. You can find numerous discussions of the training by military personnel. In  fact waterboarding as part of SERE training was discussed in the memos that Blowboy released.

Just checked again. The content of Level C is still classified. Anyone making claims about what happens is violating the NSA. The SERE manual that isn't classified has nothing about any part of the resistance training.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/21-76-1/fm_21-76-1survival.pdf




rulemylife -> RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s absolutely torture" (5/24/2009 5:46:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda



I'm positive about it, Rich. The history on this is clear. 60 years ago, we were hanging Japanese soldiers for doing this to American POWs.



Incorrect. that was the Japanese water cure, not waterboarding. It starts out the same, but they fill the stomach with water till its painfully distended and then jump on it.


You posted this same utter bullshit on another thread and I provided you five different links disputing your claim.

Yet here we are again.

[sm=banghead.gif]





Sanity -> RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s absolutely torture" (5/24/2009 7:28:03 AM)



Waterboarding isn't torture. If you want to see a victim of real torture, go to "bloody intersection" and just wait. That is, if the Taliban ever regains control of it....

Pakistani troops retake 'bloody intersection'




kittinSol -> RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s absolutely torture" (5/24/2009 8:16:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Waterboarding isn't torture.



Dream on. It may assuage your guilty conscience to believe the above lie, but you and the others who make this leap of partisan political faith only fool yourselves.




Sanity -> RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s absolutely torture" (5/24/2009 8:25:10 AM)


You want to talk about a leap of partisan political faith, let's talk about how it's supposed to be the crime of the century when a nobody desk jockey's name is accidentally leaked by one Richard Armitage but it was thought to have been Dick Cheney who did it...

Yet, only a few short years later those very same people who were screaming "treason bloody treason" can't throw the entire CIA under the bus far enough or fast enough to satisfy their deep, unending hatred of that organization.


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Dream on. It may assuage your guilty conscience to believe the above lie, but you and the others who make this leap of partisan political faith only fool yourselves.




kittinSol -> RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s absolutely torture" (5/24/2009 8:43:36 AM)

Don't know about hating the CIA (they've done such lovely things over the decades), but I know torture when I see it.




rulemylife -> RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s absolutely torture" (5/24/2009 9:03:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

Incorrect. that was the Japanese water cure, not waterboarding. It starts out the same, but they fill the stomach with water till its painfully distended and then jump on it.


The terms water cure, water treatment, and water torture were often used synonymously.  Water cure is usually referred to as what you said.  It was a technique used as far back as the Middle Ages.  It is the forced ingestion of water which causes a painful distention of the internal organs made even more painful by beating or jumping on the victim.  In many cases, before the water was expelled, internal organs were damaged that led to severe illness and many times death.

But the term water cure was also used for other water tortures, including what has only recently been referred to as waterboarding. 

It is not the same form of torture. What was used on our POW's, and what those Japanese soldiers were convicted of war crimes for, was identical to what we call waterboarding but was referred to as the water cure or water treatment at the time.


Annals of American History: The Water Cure: Reporting & Essays

A letter by A. F. Miller, of the 32nd Volunteer Infantry Regiment, published in the Omaha World-Herald in May, 1900, told of how Miller’s unit uncovered hidden weapons by subjecting a prisoner to what he and others called the “water cure.” “Now, this is the way we give them the water cure,” he explained. “Lay them on their backs, a man standing on each hand and each foot, then put a round stick in the mouth and pour a pail of water in the mouth and nose, and if they don’t give up pour in another pail. They swell up like toads. I’ll tell you it is a terrible torture.”

......................As early as April 16, 1902, the New York
World described the “American Public” sitting down to eat its breakfast with a newspaper full of Philippine atrocities:

It sips its coffee and reads of its soldiers administering the “water cure” to rebels; of how water with handfuls of salt thrown in to make it more efficacious, is forced down the throats of the patients until their bodies become distended to the point of bursting; of how our soldiers then jump on the distended bodies to force the water out quickly so that the “treatment” can begin all over again. The American Public takes another sip of its coffee and remarks, “How very unpleasant!”




Background Information on Waterboarding Outcome of Case PastDrop By Drop: Forgetting The History of Water Torture In U.S. Courts,” The Columbia Journal of Transnational Law,. 2007


World War II (Sep. 1, 1939 – Sep. 2, 1945):
The United States, acting alone before domestic courts, commissions and courts- martial, and as a participant in the international community, condemned and prosecuted the use of waterboarding by the Japanese against Unites States troops. In US military commissions, and as a participant in the International Tribunal for the Far East (based upon Nuremburg procedures), a number of Japanese troops and officials were convicted of torture for the use of waterbording.


One witness, Captain Nielsen, described waterboarding as follows: “I was put on my back on the floor with my arms and legs stretched out, one guard holding each limb. The towel was wrapped around my face and put across my face and water poured o
n. They poured water on this towel until I was almost unconscious… I felt more or less like I was drowning, just gasping between life and death.” The specific quote is from United States v. Sawada.





MarsBonfire -> RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s absolutely torture" (5/24/2009 9:15:53 AM)

It really comes down to the question: Is the United States a nation that resorts to physically and mentally damaging people in order to obtain whatever it's looking for?

Be it information, or confessions, or to steal the property of the people they are abusing?

I seem to recall this whole "free from unlawful search and seizure" and/or the "freedom from cruel and unusual punishment" and the QUAINT notion that people who are accused of a crime have "the right to confront their accusers."

I'm so glad that Cheany and Bush have freed us all from those out-of-date, silly concepts that a bunch of long-haired hippy types seemed to think were such a good idea 230 years ago. 




CruelNUnsual -> RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s absolutely torture" (5/24/2009 11:11:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

You're full of it. SERE level C content is classified. Level C is where resistance to torture is taught.


Only portions are classified. The fact that waterboarding is part of training is not. It hasnt been since the Army SERE manual was declassified about 15 years ago. You can find numerous discussions of the training by military personnel. In  fact waterboarding as part of SERE training was discussed in the memos that Blowboy released.

Just checked again. The content of Level C is still classified. Anyone making claims about what happens is violating the NSA. The SERE manual that isn't classified has nothing about any part of the resistance training.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/21-76-1/fm_21-76-1survival.pdf



You can make the same claim as many times as you want. You are wrong. Only PARTS are classified. Clue: DoD is one of my clients and I talk with them nearly every fucking day.




DomKen -> RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s absolutely torture" (5/24/2009 11:54:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual
You can make the same claim as many times as you want. You are wrong. Only PARTS are classified. Clue: DoD is one of my clients and I talk with them nearly every fucking day.

So you claim. However I know some guys who work at Coronado and they are quite clear that the content of the resistance training during SERE is classified.




CruelNUnsual -> RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s absolutely torture" (5/24/2009 2:00:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual
You can make the same claim as many times as you want. You are wrong. Only PARTS are classified. Clue: DoD is one of my clients and I talk with them nearly every fucking day.

So you claim. However I know some guys who work at Coronado and they are quite clear that the content of the resistance training during SERE is classified.


So you claim.




SilverMark -> RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s absolutely torture" (5/24/2009 2:02:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual
quote:


No no, not from you...  CnU and his ilk would be wailing about how wrong waterboarding is (if it were introduced, or still practiced)--how Obama is violating the Geneva Convention, and how it's affecting the trade deficit with other countries, etc., etc...

dont put words in my mouth, you dont have a goddam clue about what I would do or say, as evidenced by you being 100% wrong here.

Nah, see, putting words in your mouth is inferring from a statement you made, and twisting the words around to be something you didn't say.  This however is predicting, based on your past behavior.

Feel free, though, to deny that you would be wailing about President Obama, if he were advocating waterboarding, and that instead you'd be championing President Obama's wise decision.  If you do, as a prize--I'll admit I was wrong! 

[insert Final Jeopardy theme song here]




Im pro torture, period. I dont give a rats ass who authorizes it.

Yes I can tell you are....your posts are torture enough to finally prove something you say....




CruelNUnsual -> RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s absolutely torture" (5/24/2009 2:14:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

Yes I can tell you are....your posts are torture enough to finally prove something you say....


Another one from the peanut gallery with nothing of substance to say.




SilverMark -> RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s absolutely torture" (5/24/2009 2:16:55 PM)

Ahhhhhhhhh....such wit and depth.....I am overly impressed....I just cannot wait to read more from the bard of the boards and all of his substance!.....lol....keep posting!




OrionTheWolf -> RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s absolutely torture" (5/24/2009 2:26:14 PM)

~FR~

Just poking my head in to see how this ping pong match is going. So what is the score guys and gals?




Lucylastic -> RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s absolutely torture" (5/24/2009 2:28:59 PM)

LOL I think it depends who you ask Orion.
Some need corner time, but Im not saying who:)
Lucy




Kirata -> RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s absolutely torture" (5/24/2009 2:53:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: harddaddy4u

You liberals need to stop being so damn pretentiously sanctimonious. Advanced interrogation techniques work and are necessary in a world where terrorists cut people's heads off and fly planes into buildings.

Well, I'm not in favor of torture as official policy. But I do think some "advanced techniques" might hold promise in this situation. We are extremely offended by beheadings and terrorist attacks on civilians. But the terrorists are not similarly offended by suffering torture in the cause of Allah. So personally, I think something more along the lines of offense-for-offense would do more good. Instead of torturing them, I think we should shave their legs, turn them out in pretty little pink dresses with high heels, blonde wigs, lipstick and makeup, and then distribute their photos generously, with bold captions identifying their names. I suspect recruitment would suffer a pause with that kind of potential consequence looming ahead of them. Any virgins in their future would be laughing too hard to fuck.

But hey, nevermind. I'm just having a strange day. Carry on.

K.







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