RE: Faith without works

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cpK69 -> RE: Faith without works (5/26/2009 6:34:32 AM)
I guess my interests lean more toward understanding the inconsistencies I have found, in comparison to organized religion, specifically Christian; due to my exposure to it, and its broad reach throughout mankind. However, I’m inclined to believe the answers lie throughout many religions; therefore, making none of them completely accurate, nor false. Then again, I do not claim to know of all. Kim

Fitznicely -> RE: Faith without works (5/26/2009 6:47:45 AM)
Who decided the content of the Bible? What was their motivation? What's been changed in the 2000 years since Jesus preached? Why were the Dead Sea Scrolls declared apocryphal when they allegedly include the words Jesus spoke at the last supper? Why does the church actively seek to destroy gnosticism? Just staring at the Bible does not give you the whole story.

cpK69 -> RE: Faith without works (5/26/2009 6:53:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Fitznicely Just staring at the Bible does not give you the whole story. Yes, I believe what you say is accurate, and I have searched in other places. I have found information that I believe is relevant to the topic, as possibly a source that cannot be tampered with, but without the input of others to help in translating, I am at a loss when it comes to where, when, how, and what to do with it. Kim

Rainfire -> RE: Faith without works (5/26/2009 7:10:44 AM)
And some of it could be personal interpretation. There are so many ways to look at things. A mundane example is the weather. Just last night we had a family BBQ to celebrate my FIL's birthday. It was a gorgeous day and we were outside at one point. I'm in a shirt and shorts, barefoot and loving it. My MIL and SIL are there right next to me, freezing their asses off. They kept insisting that it was freezing cold yet I was perfectly warm and comfortable. Same weather, same location, 2 different reactions. Now some churches (specifically the LDS or Mormon church) believe that faith without works is dead and you will not be admitted to their highest levels of heaven (the Celestial Kingdom) if you don't do enough works to earn those blessings. They cite James 2:20 "But wilt thou know, O vain man, that afaith without bworks is dead?" and James 2:26 " For as the body without the aspirit is bdead, so faith without cworks is dead also" to back up their position even though Jesus himself clearly said that one had only to believe in him to be saved. There are numerous examples but a couple are John 12:47 "And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to ajudge the world, but to save the world" and John 20:31 "But these are awritten, that ye might bbelieve that Jesus is the cChrist, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have dlife through his ename." Although all churches believe that once saved, it is a person's Christian responsibility to help their fellow man, it's only in the LDS church where they flat out say you won't be admitted to the higher planes of Heaven if you don't do works with your faith. There's a difference between helping your fellow man and then not getting into Heaven because someone somewhere (the LDS don't even believe it's God but Joseph Smith who will determine who gets into the Celestial Kingdom) decides either they don't like you or that you didn't do enough "works" to earn the blessing of being in the Celestial Kingdom.

breatheasone -> RE: Faith without works (5/26/2009 7:21:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: the.dark. you can't get into heaven by works alone and that faith in Jesus and belief in him is totally enough. This is ALL i was trying to say. Thanks the.dark. ![;)] EDITED TO ADD: If anyone is interested in talking about Christ's Salvation for you, or have any questions. i'd be happy to talk with you! Just send me a collarme e-mail[:)]

RCdc -> RE: Faith without works (5/26/2009 7:37:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Fitznicely Who decided the content of the Bible? Those Romans sheesh, what have they ever done for us? (Damn Monty Python going through my head now...)[;)] the.dark.

GreedyTop -> RE: Faith without works (5/26/2009 7:39:52 AM)
Thanks, dark... now it's running in my head too, and I don't have the DVD.....grrrrrrrrrrrrr

cpK69 -> RE: Faith without works (5/26/2009 7:44:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: breatheasone If anyone is interested in talking about Christ's Salvation for you, or have any questions. i'd be happy to talk with you! Just send me a collarme e-mail[:)] I am not implying it is your intent, but the wording itself, is a cause for confusion, due to my understanding of ‘man’, and that which I believe is ‘the one true God’, and his ‘word/only begotten son’. An example, simply stated in something I’ve heard repeatedly over my lifetime, but couldn’t tell you what scripture it might be, if any. “God helps those who help themselves.” Asked for better understanding, not as an attack. I am wondering what part of Jesus’ coming is seen as the part that makes him the savior? Kim

RCdc -> RE: Faith without works (5/26/2009 7:52:24 AM)
I don't disagree with anything you have stated, but to be fair - 'Christians' don't really agree that LDS/Mormon/JWs etc are any branch of Christianity - whether they consider themselves to be christian or not. Most of the time, Christianity is used as a catchall term - incorrectly - to describe people who believe in the big three. Christians believe in Jesus and that he alone is their saviour, no more - no less. Unfortunately, 'Christian' is now pretty much a word that has evolved so much, that it encompasses pretty much whatever people want it to. the.dark.

RCdc -> RE: Faith without works (5/26/2009 7:54:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GreedyTop Thanks, dark... now it's running in my head too, and I don't have the DVD.....grrrrrrrrrrrrr Hehe - I have it! Now no envy - it's a sin[:D][;)] the.dark.

RCdc -> RE: Faith without works (5/26/2009 8:13:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cpK69 I am wondering what part of Jesus’ coming is seen as the part that makes him the savior? Kim As in his birth? Or his resurrection? the.dark.

breatheasone -> RE: Faith without works (5/26/2009 8:18:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cpK69 quote: ORIGINAL: breatheasone If anyone is interested in talking about Christ's Salvation for you, or have any questions. i'd be happy to talk with you! Just send me a collarme e-mail[:)] I am not implying it is your intent, but the wording itself, is a cause for confusion, due to my understanding of ‘man’, and that which I believe is ‘the one true God’, and his ‘word/only begotten son’. An example, simply stated in something I’ve heard repeatedly over my lifetime, but couldn’t tell you what scripture it might be, if any. “God helps those who help themselves.” Asked for better understanding, not as an attack. I am wondering what part of Jesus’ coming is seen as the part that makes him the savior? Kim i'm not sure i understand what you are asking. i would just like to say, if anyone would like to know about Christ's salvation for us all. i would be happy to talk to anyone who has a question.

philosophy -> RE: Faith without works (5/26/2009 8:37:54 AM)
FR.......true story ...worked with a guy some years ago. He was one f those laszy arseholes who are rleated to the boss. So he got away with more than anyone else. One break time he came up to me and said, "You drink don't you?". "Yup" i said. "Me too," said he, "you fornicate too...". "Right again" i said. "Me too" said he. "We both smoke too, don't we". "Yes......where are you going with this." i said. "Well, i believe in God and you don't, so i'm going to heaven and you aren't" he said and wandered off cackling to go be lazy soemwhere else. If all it takes to impress God is faith, and if works are irrelevant........quite frankly he's not the sort of person i care to impress.

Rainfire -> RE: Faith without works (5/26/2009 8:41:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cpK69 I am not implying it is your intent, but the wording itself, is a cause for confusion, due to my understanding of ‘man’, and that which I believe is ‘the one true God’, and his ‘word/only begotten son’. An example, simply stated in something I’ve heard repeatedly over my lifetime, but couldn’t tell you what scripture it might be, if any. “God helps those who help themselves.” Asked for better understanding, not as an attack. I am wondering what part of Jesus’ coming is seen as the part that makes him the savior? Kim The above example about people helping themselves, is NOT in the Bible. Like many urban myths, it's attributed to the Bible but it's not in it. :) And Jesus is seen as the Christian "Savior" because through his death on the cross and the shedding of his blood, he "saves" us from eternal damnation if we simply believe on him and ask for forgiveness of our sins. His death fulfilled the First Covenant of Mosaic Law, so that no more blood be shed in asking forgiveness of our sins and ushering us into the New Covenant of the New Testament. The Second Coming, or Rapture, is considered to be when Jesus will collect those people who believe in him.

RCdc -> RE: Faith without works (5/26/2009 8:49:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy FR.......true story ...worked with a guy some years ago. He was one f those laszy arseholes who are rleated to the boss. So he got away with more than anyone else. One break time he came up to me and said, "You drink don't you?". "Yup" i said. "Me too," said he, "you fornicate too...". "Right again" i said. "Me too" said he. "We both smoke too, don't we". "Yes......where are you going with this." i said. "Well, i believe in God and you don't, so i'm going to heaven and you aren't" he said and wandered off cackling to go be lazy soemwhere else. If all it takes to impress God is faith, and if works are irrelevant........quite frankly he's not the sort of person i care to impress. In a sense, that is where the whole confessional stuff comes from. Confess your sins before you die yaddayaddayadda, then you will be fine. It's the whole sitting in judgement thing so you can confess all you like - if your hearts not in it - faith won't help. the.dark.

Rainfire -> RE: Faith without works (5/26/2009 8:54:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark I don't disagree with anything you have stated, but to be fair - 'Christians' don't really agree that LDS/Mormon/JWs etc are any branch of Christianity - whether they consider themselves to be christian or not. Most of the time, Christianity is used as a catchall term - incorrectly - to describe people who believe in the big three. Christians believe in Jesus and that he alone is their saviour, no more - no less. Unfortunately, 'Christian' is now pretty much a word that has evolved so much, that it encompasses pretty much whatever people want it to. the.dark. I totally agree, the.dark. As an ex-mo (ex-mormon), I don't consider the LDS church as "Christian" because of their placing Joseph Smith ahead and the "additional Scripture as revealed by Joseph Smith". However, they are one of the fastest growing churches in the world and in the top 10 largest churches. They are have gained mainstream acceptance as a "Christian" church because a lot of people don't know their doctrine and practices. Most people who don't accept the Mormon church as "Christian" are more fundamental and strict in their beliefs. The Mormon church fits many a definition of a cult and operates as one, trying to get people to either join or leave their families behind. Members are taught to associate only with other Mormons because only they will understand them. It's very insidious and destructive, when they claim to have be about families. [:)] There are reasons why I left it......

RCdc -> RE: Faith without works (5/26/2009 9:11:01 AM)
Yup Rain, I can't disagree with anything you just said. I do believe that lack of knowledge plays a huge part in so many of the threads that you get on here that get all anti christian and condemning. I don't blame people for being like that. Sometimes it can come across all secretive and shit. And that secretiveness can breed distrust. Many Christians don't help themselves out sometimes and don't do themselves any favours. the.dark.

RCdc -> RE: Faith without works (5/26/2009 9:16:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: breatheasone i'm not sure i understand what you are asking. i would just like to say, if anyone would like to know about Christ's salvation for us all. i would be happy to talk to anyone who has a question. Hi breathingone! My question to you would be what denomination would you be and are you only able to answer any questions in mails or do you mean, on the board in general? Of course, denomination is strictly a personal thing and if you didnt want to answer thats all cool - I can dig that. But I totally believe that people should know the belief they are dealing with when talking to someone about such a subject. the.dark.

breatheasone -> RE: Faith without works (5/26/2009 9:34:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark quote: ORIGINAL: breatheasone i'm not sure i understand what you are asking. i would just like to say, if anyone would like to know about Christ's salvation for us all. i would be happy to talk to anyone who has a question. Hi breathingone! My question to you would be what denomination would you be and are you only able to answer any questions in mails or do you mean, on the board in general? Of course, denomination is strictly a personal thing and if you didnt want to answer thats all cool - I can dig that. But I totally believe that people should know the belief they are dealing with when talking to someone about such a subject. the.dark. Hey there Lady![:)].... What i am offering is a discussion about what the Bible has to say about Christ's salvation for us all. i can promise you and anyone else, that if its NOT in the Bible....you won't hear it from me. i believe organized religion is ok, but it should NOT replace learning Gods Word for YOURSELF. TOO many peoples knowledge of the Bible comes from what people have BEEN TOLD the Bible says...instead of what the Bible ACTUALLY says. i am simply offering a chance to discuss, grow, and learn, for myself as well as anyone who may wish to learn.

camille65 -> RE: Faith without works (5/26/2009 9:40:44 AM)
Which bible do you use?

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