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RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 4:23:01 AM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
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From: Northern New Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DreamGoddess666

The ban simply shows that, if the United States passes itself as a beacon of freedom and human rights, that's a freaking JOKE. We may be better than, say, the Middle East, but Europe has us beat hands-down. EUROPE (okay, mainly Western Europe) is the beacon of freedom and hope and human rights in the world, NOT the United States. The United States is a fraud.

EDIT: Look, sorry if I'm abrasive, but I'm ANGRY. Extremely so. Civil rights are very important to me and a subject I'm well beyond passionate about. I believe in equality and this country continues to anger me by stepping on human rights.


Certainly, you and many of us are angry over this issue.  However, I don't go so far as calling the USA a "fraud."  The beauty of this country is that you are free to leave it and live somewhere else if you don't like it here.  That isn't an option everywhere.  I am a big believer in fighting for change.  You talk about another revolution, but what you are talking about is a civil war, not a revolution.  You will find that it is very difficult to get people on your side when you compare apples and oranges.

The bottom line is that if you hate this country that much, you can leave.  As quite a few have mentioned, your way of communicating your unhappiness is not productive and does nothing to get people on your side.  The rest of us who are unhappy about what happened but ultimately will find a peaceful way to change things will be more successful than those who take your route.  Look at the pro-life people.  They justify their outrage at abortion clinics by committing murder themselves.  Have they gotten anywhere?  Have they changed the laws to ban abortions?  Of course not (yes, I know that isn't the only reason they don't win).  You are headed down the same path.

(in reply to DreamGoddess666)
Profile   Post #: 321
RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 4:26:00 AM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		Deleted

< Message edited by LafayetteLady -- 5/29/2009 4:57:09 AM >

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 322
RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 4:32:06 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

And again...i ask that you site your source. You did not do so. I feel you cannot.

It is a fact that the majority of Christians oppose gay marriage. It is a fact that the vast majority of Muslims oppose gay marriage. It is a fact that a large percentage of the Jewish population support gay marriage. It is a fact that the majority of Orthodox Jews oppose gay marriage.

It is a fact that DG's holds the opinion that opposing gay marriage makes one a bigot. Opposing gay marriage, however, does not, factually, make one a bigot since one can oppose gay marriage and het marriage at the same time, so no bigotry. It's like the guy who say's "I'm not a racist! I hate everyone equally!" Technically, he's not a racist!

Opposing gay marriage, however, is a form of discrimination. Having the same body parts below the waist appears to be the only reason that Christians are opposed to gay marriage. Dangly bits married to other dangly bits? Vulvas married to other vulvas? Most Christians are opposed to such a union .. and that's a fact.

General observation - not to SirsHolly - I just don't get the opposition. Is what lies below the waist somehow superior or more important to what lies in the heart and head? That's a serious question. One which I've asked dozens if not hundreds of times yet, have never gotten an answer that didn't involve someone hitting me on the head with their chosen version of the bible. Even that, when I think about it, doesn't make sense. A loving God supports and is more concerned with dangly bits than what lies in someone's heart? Nope, I don't get it.

My sources are cited in my previous post #320.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to sirsholly)
Profile   Post #: 323
RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 4:34:27 AM   
BitaTruble


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From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

I'm pretty sure more than 51% is required to get something.  I believe they need a 2/3 vote.  Still dealing with the health issue and on a few too many pain meds to be absolute, but pretty sure the numbers are correct.


Prop 8 passed because a bit over 50% voted for it. A 2/3 vote in Congress is needed to overturn a Presidential veto.

Can I have some of your meds because this thread is giving me a headache! lol

edited to clarify

< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 5/29/2009 4:38:29 AM >

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 324
RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 4:43:25 AM   
sirsholly


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From: Quietville
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quote:

My sources are cited in my previous post #320.
smart-ass 


You hit what i was trying to get to by asking her to site her source that all who oppose gay marriage are bigots.

And please...do not get me wrong...many are. But to say ALL who oppose are bigots is wrong. There are people who simply feel marriage is an institution that should be banned, be it of heterosexuals or homosexuals. Bigots? Of course not.





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Profile   Post #: 325
RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 4:44:53 AM   
LafayetteLady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DreamGoddess666

People in this country cling too much to the "majority rule" and ignores the other half of that founding principle: "MINORITY RIGHTS".


Could please cite WHERE in the FOUNDING documents you read anything about minority rights? 

(in reply to DreamGoddess666)
Profile   Post #: 326
RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 4:47:44 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

quote:

ORIGINAL: DreamGoddess666

People in this country cling too much to the "majority rule" and ignores the other half of that founding principle: "MINORITY RIGHTS".


Could please cite WHERE in the FOUNDING documents you read anything about minority rights? 


rotsa ruck....


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Profile   Post #: 327
RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 4:49:25 AM   
LafayetteLady


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From: Northern New Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

Laws against polygamy and same sex marriage should be outside the jurisdiction of any court ..


Where then do you think challenging the laws should take place if not in a courtroom?  As long as marriages and civil unions will be disolved legally by the courts in divorce and such, the courts are necessary. 

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 328
RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 5:16:48 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		~sneaks back in waving a white flag and an impish grin

ya know... just for the sake of adding fuel to the fire.  the article Bita provided about religions for or against same sex marriages... is actually the heads who are for or against.  even within each religion, there are differing view points.  just like in the state elections

when you say the catholic religion, for example... the vatican makes those decisions for them.  how many members use birth control even though the church says thats a huge no no.

i think you know where im going with this

_____________________________

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 329
RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 5:18:05 AM   
BitaTruble


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From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

My sources are cited in my previous post #320.
smart-ass 


You hit what i was trying to get to by asking her to site her source that all who oppose gay marriage are bigots.


I knew that which is why I stressed that such is only her opinion ... but any time I get the chance to yank yer chain, I'm agonna!

::gets out the clover clamps and looks for a body part to attach them to:: Gotta a preference?



_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to sirsholly)
Profile   Post #: 330
RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 5:25:34 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

Laws against polygamy and same sex marriage should be outside the jurisdiction of any court ..


Where then do you think challenging the laws should take place if not in a courtroom?  As long as marriages and civil unions will be disolved legally by the courts in divorce and such, the courts are necessary. 


That was poorly worded. My bad. I'm sure you'll be understand my stance if you read the whole post.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 331
RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 5:27:20 AM   
Truthiness


Posts: 251
Joined: 11/27/2008
Status: offline 		big·ot (bĭg'ət)
n. One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

Just pointing out the irony in that many who are quickest to use the word "bigot" are very much bigots themselves.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 332
RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 5:32:45 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ya know... just for the sake of adding fuel to the fire. the article Bita provided about religions for or against same sex marriages... is actually the heads who are for or against. even within each religion, there are differing view points. just like in the state elections


I specifically said it was doctrine broken down by religion. How does that add fuel to the fire? The other link spoke to the statistics of the actual populace broken down by country and included statistics broken down by religion based on the population (not heads of various religions). I'm not getting the point of your post.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 333
RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 5:32:48 AM   
Zevar


Posts: 801
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quote:

and by the way, cupcake...Catholics ARE Christians.


Greetings sirsholly:

After wading through the many replies here I came upon your quote above. Caught my attention: I thought " Well of course Catholics ARE Christians." A Google search produced the following which I would say is to the contrary. Worth the read I think. Judge for yourself, naturally. I certainly am. Talk about ..' what is your source" eh? Much to debate for sure.

http://www.carm.org/religious-movements/roman-catholicism/are-roman-catholics-christian

I wish you well,
~ Zevar ~

< Message edited by Zevar -- 5/29/2009 5:34:01 AM >

(in reply to sirsholly)
Profile   Post #: 334
RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 5:35:33 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DreamGoddess666

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

Unfortunately, it's still a fact that a MAJORITY of Christians (and Catholics, Jews, and Muslims) are against gay marriage and therefore bigots. 


Please site your source.

It sounds to me like these outrageous statements are your opinion as opposed to fact. It also sounds like you are full of it.

Prove me wrong. Site your source.



Excuse me, I have three of the four. Apparently Jews aren't as against it as the other three (which is ironic given that the Torah includes the Book of Leviticus, which is the primary anti-gay book of the Bible, but I disgress).

First you can see in the voting here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_8_(2008)

65% of Protestants and 64% of Catholics right there.

For the Muslims, I simply direct your attention to the Middle East, where homosexuality is a capital offense. That one's a no brainer.

Why do you demand people cite sources that you, as an adult, can easily find via a rudimentary search, and probably already knew to begin with? You just get a kick out of demanding proof. Personally, I find it silly to need to prove the obvious. Do I need to prove gravity next?


According to their beliefs homosexuallity is wrong. Now do you honestly expect them to change their beliefs to accomodate you or anyone else?

_____________________________

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(in reply to DreamGoddess666)
Profile   Post #: 335
RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 5:40:04 AM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zevar

quote:

and by the way, cupcake...Catholics ARE Christians.


Greetings sirsholly:

After wading through the many replies here I came upon your quote above. Caught my attention: I thought " Well of course Catholics ARE Christians." A Google search produced the following which I would say is to the contrary. Worth the read I think. Judge for yourself, naturally. I certainly am. Talk about ..' what is your source" eh? Much to debate for sure.

http://www.carm.org/religious-movements/roman-catholicism/are-roman-catholics-christian

I wish you well,
~ Zevar ~
oh hell...not even the Christians want to claim them?


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Profile   Post #: 336
RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 5:42:51 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Op Eds are not considered credible sources for the same reason Wiki is frowned on.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Zevar)
Profile   Post #: 337
RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 5:44:20 AM   
Truthiness


Posts: 251
Joined: 11/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly
oh hell...not even the Christians want to claim them?


There are Catholics who are Christians, but a very many who self identify as Catholic who aren't.

(For that matter there's a lot of self-claimed Christians who aren't really Christian. The Fred Phelps cult is a prime example.)

< Message edited by Truthiness -- 5/29/2009 5:45:12 AM >

(in reply to sirsholly)
Profile   Post #: 338
RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 5:46:09 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi



According to their beliefs homosexuallity is wrong. Now do you honestly expect them to change their beliefs to accomodate you or anyone else?


She didn't say that. Her position is that a 'belief' should not influence the law of the land.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 339
RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 5:50:04 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi



According to their beliefs homosexuallity is wrong. Now do you honestly expect them to change their beliefs to accomodate you or anyone else?


She didn't say that. Her position is that a 'belief' should not influence the law of the land.


That's funny, I thought her position was that they were all bigots and should change their views, but maybe I read it wrong.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DreamGoddess666

Unfortunately, it's still a fact that a MAJORITY of Christians (and Catholics, Jews, and Muslims) are against gay marriage and therefore bigots. There are numerous polls and studies out there for you to see that will prove this. Over 50% of people in these religions oppose it. Therefore, the term "most" applies. Not all, but "most".


_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 340
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