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LadyPact -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 8:17:03 AM)
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ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
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ORIGINAL: LadyPact
I read through to the fourth page, and then I couldn't take it anymore.
At the moment, I'm right there with you.
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ORIGINAL: LadyPact
If I had the same, or even secondary rights regarding clip as his wife does, I'd be thrilled. From a legal standpoint, I don't even have the right to be notified if he's killed in action. That's right. That's even less than what most people, regardless of their sexual orientation have.
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ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Unlike same sex couples, My company doesn't recognize My poly family for bereavement benefits. If clip were to be killed in action, I have no right to time off. I have no say in removing life support if his body is being kept alive, even though his brain might be dead. I have no right to his personal effects, nor the flag that would cover his coffin should he be killed during duty.
Not really, a spouse is considered next of kin. If clip were your brother and he had a wife, you wouldn't receive DIRECT notification either. If clip were your CHILD and was married, you wouldn't have the choice about removing him from life support, you wouldn't get the flag. There is only one flag, so who would you say is entitled to it in a poly family? With life support, the immediate next of kin is given the weight of deciding life support unless there is an advance directive. You aren't entitled to time off from work if your grandparent were to die either.
Actually, you're incorrect on a few points there. The easiest one to cover is that some private employers do, in fact, cover bereavement benefits in the case of grandparents. Mine does happen to be one. What you might be thinking of is the minimum requirement that a company has to offer under bereavement as guided by federal law.
On the flag business, you are correct that there is generally one issued and it is given to who the military member has listed as next of kin. In cases where divorce is pending, that isn't automatically the spouse. (There's paperwork involved, but you can do it.) In cases where a parent is listed as the next of kin, where both parents are living, but happen to be divorced, a second flag is issued. Dual notification can also be requested. There's no reason it couldn't work the same in a poly family.
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LadyPact, I agree that there are many types of civil unions that might need some recognition. But let's just look at the situation a bit differently. If and and clip were a heterosexual couple is simply living together, and has made the choice not to marry, you would not be entitled to a single thing mentioned above either. Your company would not be required to give you time off should he die, you aren't entitled to the flag, etc.
That's not completely correct, either. I don't want there to be any confusion between the private sector and the military sector. One thing that comes into play here and can be used as a pretty good loophole for those heterosexual couples who chose not to marry is the shared parenting of a child and a shared home of record. The child is actually the next of kin, but the other parent, either biologically or through adoption, is the next of kin's guardian. This is something that has to be set up through the service member's family plan, which every active duty person has to have on file if there is a dependent child. (In other words, the military wants to know in advance what happens to the child that lives with you should you happen to be deployed.) It's a way to make the legal decisions as next of kin, without being what most people would consider next of kin.
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I am by no means attempting to diminsh your family relationships, but given only one flag, why do you believe YOU would be entitled over his wife? It would seem he has at least two important relationships, why should you be put ahead of the other? Again, I don't mean anything against your relationship, or any poly families. You could be the spouse (gay or straight) and still not have the right to decide on life support, as it can be given to someone else.
Believe Me, I'm not taking it that way. In fact, I'm not saying that I should be entitled over his wife, or even be put on an equal basis as her. I think that would be kind of presumptuous of Me considering the way our poly situation is structured.
There's one issue that's getting confused here and it needs to be pointed out. I'm answering these remarks based on the fact that My sub happens to be married. See, that's all well and good and part of the reason that I don't bring this up a lot. My response in these matters would vary greatly if he weren't. If he were single, I still wouldn't have these rights because even though both males are part of My family, I can only be legally bound to one of them.
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In any case, progress takes place slowly. At one point in time, blacks and whites were not permitted by law to marry. Now they are. One step at a time. Have you or other poly families ever attempted to figure out how to rectify the situation or attempt to create your own proposition to resolve your issue? Gay marriage is getting the attention, the proposition, etc. because gays are fighting for it.
I've said many times on these boards that it is My honest belief that poly folks will have a better shot at this once the GLBT community has paved the way. It would be My opinion that we are were that community was probably about thirty years ago. There's still a lot of acceptance that needs to happen for alternative families and that is going to happen a bit at a time. Even on this thread, which I've seen as majorly in favor of gay marriage, it's been repeatedly pointed out that such unions *should* be between two. Some have even stated that they are outright against unions involving more than two. (Don't worry, folks. I always notice those of you who are supportive of more than two. Please don't be slighted.)
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Certainly, one on one relationships are much easier to "divide" and make some of the decisions you mention above. There are also healthcare (primary, secondary, teriary, etc.), family leave, support should one of the relationships end and who is responsible, etc.
I would be very interested in seeing how those issues would be resolved, and would support an argument for you to have the rights that you seek, but resolutions for those types of issues would have to be spelled out for you to even get footing in getting that right.
You're absolutely right there. I also have no doubt that there will be a crackpot or two along the way who will muck it up and make it more difficult for the rest of us. The truth is, we'll turn out just like everyone else. Some of us will be level headed and civil should it be best that a legally recognized family should part ways and others will behave like complete twits. Unfortunately, it would be the latter that would get the recognition from the press.
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In the situation of gay marriage, all current marriage and divorce laws would easily apply without the need for adjustment. While I would support the idea of you getting the rights that you seek, I don't think that mainstream society is quite ready for that yet. Look how long it has taken the gay community to get a foothold.
I agree with you there, too. It's ok. I'm a patient woman. I'll wait.
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