RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people...

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wolfcannon -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 3:19:16 PM)
may i make an observation here. the ppl of california, reinterate (PEOPLE) voted. one of the most fundemental rights of an AMERICAN citizen to do. a call to vote on a issue was put before the whole of the state of california, yes? regardless of christian (which i am) or non christian, all sides voted. the issue was decided by VOTING. i saw nothing but the constitution at work with this. sirsholly you statement of "Judge not lest ye be judged." here is the full passage "Matthew 7:1 Judge not that ye be Judged Matthew 7:2 For what judgement ye judge, ye shall be judged; and what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Matthew 7:3 and why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brothers eye. but consider not the beam that is in thine own eye?" this was jesus exhorting his disciples not to judge anyone, for how can you judge a sinner when they themselve were sinners. i judge no one. but the God is very clear about homosexuality. so i am not judging. God will judge all including me. DreamGoddess666, for one to classify anyone who opposses an argument of another person or groups of ppl, as a bigot seems rather narrow minded to me. i oposse the idea of same sex marriage and i am no bigot. do not Homosexual men and women have full right as citizens of the united states. except for marriage. do not they enjoy freedom given by the bill of rights? the constitution? can they not own property, have a job? raise children? vote? pay taxes? Darcyandthedark: No jesus himself did not comment on the issue of homosexuality, GOD already did. and who is God why is he not Jesus and another part is the Holy Ghost? so no one is ignoring scripture. im sorry if i seem confrontational, which i am not, i am mearly pointing out facts.

RCdc -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 3:31:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: wolfcannon Darcyandthedark: No jesus himself did not comment on the issue of homosexuality, GOD already did. and who is God why is he not Jesus and another part is the Holy Ghost? so no one is ignoring scripture. im sorry if i seem confrontational, which i am not, i am mearly pointing out facts. Not really. Facts pertaining to whom? Roman officals? And no worries, I am all cool if you want to be confronational. It's all groovy to me! God said what exactly about homsexuality? Do you know your hebrew? Your greek? Yes? Then you will already know that there are a handful of possibilities that the translations could have been. Cool. Then we are in agreement! We could also then agree that Jesus (yanno - that big guy who was most probably black and had hands like rusty steam shovels, not some blonde, blue eyed skinny robert powell wannabe) did call out child molesters. Opps, there goes half the congregation. (Funny that 'child molesters/slavers' turned in 'homosexuals' in the NT huh?) the.dark.

BitaTruble -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 3:40:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: wolfcannon may i make an observation here. the ppl of california, reinterate (PEOPLE) voted. one of the most fundemental rights of an AMERICAN citizen to do. a call to vote on a issue was put before the whole of the state of california, yes? regardless of christian (which i am) or non christian, all sides voted. the issue was decided by VOTING. i saw nothing but the constitution at work with this. So, you're cool if the people vote and reinstate slavery or strip the woman's right to vote? I mean, I know that violates United States Constitutional law and everything, but a vote is a vote right? If it's okay that Prop 8 violates Constitutional law, then it's okay if another Prop violates another law, right? Where's your line and what happens when it's crossed?

wolfcannon -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 3:50:01 PM)
yes i know that jesus was a jew and that means what? so he was a carpenter? okay what is the point? actually if you read the Old Testament it is in Leviticus 20:13 if man also lie with mankind, as with he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed and abmination; the shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." but i am not advocating this because i haves sinned and have fallen far short of perfection, as all christians know only one person born of woman was perfect, his name is Jesus. and actually the King James Bible 1611 edition (the only bible i read) was put up against the Dead Sea Scrolls found in Isreal and found to 95% accurate. and yes i have at home the concordance with the original hebrew and greek alongside the English. but i am without it im my truck.

RCdc -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 3:54:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble So, you're cool if the people vote and reinstate slavery or strip the woman's right to vote? I mean, I know that violates United States Constitutional law and everything, but a vote is a vote right? If it's okay that Prop 8 violates Constitutional law, then it's okay if another Prop violates another law, right? Where's your line and what happens when it's crossed? Dearest Celeste. I'm a brit. I am ashamed to say that Laws and stuff in the US isn't my 'thing'. I usually read your writings if I want information. I find this fantastical in a sense. Prop 8 bans gay relationships from marriage - yes? It violates Constitutional Law - yes? Christians should remember Romans then for other reasons than truthiness was discussing with me earlier. quote: Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. the.dark.

purepleasure -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 3:55:05 PM)
oh geez, I've not seen so much arguing, even though it seems like everyone posting is on the same side of this issue

DomImus -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 3:57:26 PM)
Withdrawn. Too many chips on that shoulder.

DreamGoddess666 -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 3:58:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 By your logic, any law that prohibits someone from having the same rights and privileges as the majority of the people is bigoted. The problem with this logic is that there are laws that prohibit various rights to convicted felons, and force restrictions on other convicted criminals, such as the laws that require sex offenders to register where they live. There is also a law that prohibits people who were not born American citizens from becoming president. Now while I have nothing against gay marriage, there is a simple fact that you have not considered. In a republic, such as the United States, (the US is NOT a democracy) the majority of people elect representatives to government office to make laws for the MAJORITY of the citizens. Whether you like it or not, majority rules, and the majority of the citizens in the United States still have problems with gay and lesbian marriage. While there is widespread acceptance of the lifestyle choice, there are still limits to how far that acceptance will go. Finally, be thankful that the 'sodomy' laws are not being enforced, since those laws prohibit any sex act other than vaginal penetration between men and women. By the way, those laws are still used when prosecuting sex related crimes. So quit pissing and moaning and advocating armed violence against the government, get over yourself and wait until the rest of the country is more tolerant... or you can move to a country that allows gay and lesbian marriage. Laws that take away rights from convicted felons are PUNISHMENTS for people who HURT INNOCENT PEOPLE. It's reactionary and thus just. As for the law prohibiting people not born in the United States from becoming President, guess what? I'm against that law and fully believe it should be changed. Third, the federal government overturned ALL the sodomy laws a few years back. None of them are valid anymore, and by the Constitution, can't be enforced. Fourth, it's not a "lifestyle choice". I didn't choose to be this way, I was BORN this way. You people want to keep pushing the choice thing, but you're wrong. Personal experience proves that fact. I didn't make any choice in this. I'm attracted to women, not men, period, I didn't chose it, I was born that way. All of this still doesn't rebuke the fact that, majority belief or no, being for heterosexual marriage and against gay marriage is oppression and bigotry by definition. By the way, using the "love it or leave it" mentality pretty much voids anything else you might have to say because it's a critical flaw in debate. You just don't understand anything about the United States if you think that way.

Truthiness -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 4:01:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark quote: ORIGINAL: Truthiness Romans 1 was pretty critical of homosexuality too and explains it's origin. As a friend of mine who extensively studied Greek and Hebrew translated it, using his own version of "Snark" to translate to, it basicly says "If you turn away from God he will make you gay and kill you". Just to add, and not wanting to edit. I have no idea what snark is, but I a going to assume until you correct me, that you are meaning a translating tool? Didn't your teachers ever tell you to never use an online translator to translate anything? Truthfully, go use any translator if you are multi lingual in any way and find out. And I have to say, if the biblical scholars for hundreds of years cannot and could not translate the bible correctly into english or any other language, what possibility has a computer translator? the.dark. Nope...snark is kind of a witty/satirical tone sometimes with a touch of sarcasm. (Snarky being the adjective). This was a University Professor of varioius language arts...he used "Snark" because he was trying to be humorous with the translation when he said that Romans 1 says "If you turn away from God he will turn you gay and kill you."

purepleasure -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 4:03:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DreamGoddess666 quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 By your logic, any law that prohibits someone from having the same rights and privileges as the majority of the people is bigoted. The problem with this logic is that there are laws that prohibit various rights to convicted felons, and force restrictions on other convicted criminals, such as the laws that require sex offenders to register where they live. There is also a law that prohibits people who were not born American citizens from becoming president. Now while I have nothing against gay marriage, there is a simple fact that you have not considered. In a republic, such as the United States, (the US is NOT a democracy) the majority of people elect representatives to government office to make laws for the MAJORITY of the citizens. Whether you like it or not, majority rules, and the majority of the citizens in the United States still have problems with gay and lesbian marriage. While there is widespread acceptance of the lifestyle choice, there are still limits to how far that acceptance will go. Finally, be thankful that the 'sodomy' laws are not being enforced, since those laws prohibit any sex act other than vaginal penetration between men and women. By the way, those laws are still used when prosecuting sex related crimes. So quit pissing and moaning and advocating armed violence against the government, get over yourself and wait until the rest of the country is more tolerant... or you can move to a country that allows gay and lesbian marriage. Laws that take away rights from convicted felons are PUNISHMENTS for people who HURT INNOCENT PEOPLE. It's reactionary and thus just. As for the law prohibiting people not born in the United States from becoming President, guess what? I'm against that law and fully believe it should be changed. Third, the federal government overturned ALL the sodomy laws a few years back. None of them are valid anymore, and by the Constitution, can't be enforced. Fourth, it's not a "lifestyle choice". I didn't choose to be this way, I was BORN this way. You people want to keep pushing the choice thing, but you're wrong. Personal experience proves that fact. I didn't make any choice in this. I'm attracted to women, not men, period, I didn't chose it, I was born that way. All of this still doesn't rebuke the fact that, majority belief or no, being for heterosexual marriage and against gay marriage is oppression and bigotry by definition. By the way, using the "love it or leave it" mentality pretty much voids anything else you might have to say because it's a critical flaw in debate. You just don't understand anything about the United States if you think that way. not to push the issue, but according to your profile, you're a post-op male to female. I'd say you were not born this way, but that you CHOSE to be female, and were born a male trapped in a female's body.

RCdc -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 4:04:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: wolfcannon yes i know that jesus was a jew and that means what? so he was a carpenter? okay what is the point? actually if you read the Old Testament it is in Leviticus 20:13 if man also lie with mankind, as with he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed and abmination; the shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." but i am not advocating this because i haves sinned and have fallen far short of perfection, as all christians know only one person born of woman was perfect, his name is Jesus. and actually the King James Bible 1611 edition (the only bible i read) was put up against the Dead Sea Scrolls found in Isreal and found to 95% accurate. and yes i have at home the concordance with the original hebrew and greek alongside the English. but i am without it im my truck. I am just head banging a brick wall in this discussion really aren't I? Does canaanites do anything for you? Purity codes? If you need a concordence to know your bible, I don't have much else to discuss with you, because it is obvious you have not taken the time to study for yourself. I enjoy discussions with people who know their bible or religious writings. But when arguing back and forth with people who need to check out thier notes or biblical concordence, that is often (though not always) pointless. Besides, it's like a lamb to slaughter see... see... drumrole... I did another! Geeze, at least with Kenin he could hold his own. Really - Get thee to romans. the.dark.

BitaTruble -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 4:04:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark Prop 8 bans gay relationships from marriage - yes? Yup. quote: It violates Constitutional Law - yes? Right again. quote: Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. A most apt quote .dark.

stella41b -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 4:06:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: wolfcannon No jesus himself did not comment on the issue of homosexuality, GOD already did. and who is God why is he not Jesus and another part is the Holy Ghost? so no one is ignoring scripture. im sorry if i seem confrontational, which i am not, i am mearly pointing out facts. So God has commented on homosexuality? Prove it.

RCdc -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 4:07:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Truthiness Nope...snark is kind of a witty/satirical tone sometimes with a touch of sarcasm. (Snarky being the adjective). This was a University Professor of varioius language arts...he used "Snark" because he was trying to be humorous with the translation when he said that Romans 1 says "If you turn away from God he will turn you gay and kill you." Well I'll be - 'trying' being the operative word I guess.[&:] the.dark.

Truthiness -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 4:09:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DreamGoddess666 By the way, using the "love it or leave it" mentality pretty much voids anything else you might have to say because it's a critical flaw in debate. You just don't understand anything about the United States if you think that way. By the way, your strawman is a critical flaw in your debate...he suggest you "Love it or leave it." He pointed out that your options are either to deal with it until it changes or go somewhere where that allows it. Subtle but important distinction...his statement is pretty much factual as to what your options are. quote: ]All of this still doesn't rebuke the fact that, majority belief or no, being for heterosexual marriage and against gay marriage is oppression and bigotry by definition. No it's not bigotry...bigotry is just an appeal to emotion to villify those with a different belief. I didn't just decide "OMG gayz are ebil!" I have nothing against homosexual people. Heck, the girl I'm involved with is bisexual and polyamorous and I still love her to pieces. If God came right now and said "Okay, the rules are changed; it's okay to do the sodomy/homosexual thing", I'd be first in line to go "Hey, right on!" It's not my rule, but I understand why God made the rule. Oh well. As for oppression...I'm against homosexual marriage, and yet my stance if taken by the government would be the most free and equal stance on marriage there is...letting anyone do what they want and marry who they want without government interference. So how am I being oppressive?

philosophy -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 4:09:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: wolfcannon may i make an observation here. the ppl of california, reinterate (PEOPLE) voted. one of the most fundemental rights of an AMERICAN citizen to do. a call to vote on a issue was put before the whole of the state of california, yes? regardless of christian (which i am) or non christian, all sides voted. the issue was decided by VOTING. i saw nothing but the constitution at work with this. ....ah, majority rule. Ever heard of electoral tyranny? 51% of the people get to tell the other 49% how to live. Some things are just wrong, and i don't really care how many people vote for it.

Politesub53 -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 4:26:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 In a republic, such as the United States, (the US is NOT a democracy) Wait a minute, does that make the Democratic party invalid ? I thought anywhere they hold a free vote was a democracy. quote: Finally, be thankful that the 'sodomy' laws are not being enforced, since those laws prohibit any sex act other than vaginal penetration between men and women. I think this was changed by the Supreme Court a few years ago.

MstrPBK -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 4:31:13 PM)
Thinks maybe a new thread needs to be started ... ummm quote: ORIGINAL: wolfcannon yes i know that jesus was a jew and that means what? so he was a carpenter? okay what is the point? actually if you read the Old Testament it is in Leviticus 20:13 if man also lie with mankind, as with he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed and abmination; the shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." but i am not advocating this because i haves sinned and have fallen far short of perfection, as all christians know only one person born of woman was perfect, his name is Jesus. and actually the King James Bible 1611 edition (the only bible i read) was put up against the Dead Sea Scrolls found in Isreal and found to 95% accurate. and yes i have at home the concordance with the original hebrew and greek alongside the English. but i am without it im my truck. slightly off topic ... if the essence of the King James Bible (1611) was off by 5% in accuracy could you summarize for us as to where that 5% is in mis-translated passages? As a Unitariain Universallist I have heard rumblings that "Thou shall not kill" ought to be "Thou shall not murder". I have also heard that the King James Bible (1611) has NOT ONE reference to Homosexuality (maybe that is a myth). MstrPBK St .Paul, MN USA

BitaTruble -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 4:31:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 In a republic, such as the United States, (the US is NOT a democracy) Wait a minute, does that make the Democratic party invalid ? I thought anywhere they hold a free vote was a democracy. Democracy is majority rule. Republics are bound by charter. The United States is a republic not a democracy. The law of the land is the charter we call the Constitution and Prop 8, which was a majority vote violates the charter (specifically the 14th amendment) and hence, it's illegal.

Politesub53 -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/29/2009 4:35:16 PM)
Thanks for the explaination Bita.

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