RE: christian terrorism?

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Truthiness -> RE: christian terrorism? (6/5/2009 2:32:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen BTW is there even a condemnation of homsexuality in the 4 gospels? I can't find one. There isn't in the entire NT. the.dark. Oops. It's something I have mentioned before, that Jesus far from condenming homosexuality, he heals a young boy whom, in those times would have been most likely a young gay male lover. He does so on the request of the boys lover/owner, almost rebuking those following by stating that he has never seen such faith, even in israel. the.dark. Jesus also saved the life of an adulterer by telling those ready to stone her "He who is without sin cast the first stone." Jesus forgave her sins... ...but then told her to sin no more Yes, Jesus was loving, forgiving, and eager to help the sinners; enough to die for them. This is nothing I haven't known for decades. =)

RCdc -> RE: christian terrorism? (6/5/2009 2:35:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Truthiness quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark Whether he is a 'true' christian is NOT your decision to make. It is gods. .... If he makes the statement that he is only doing what Jesus told him and uses the bible as an example, then he is a christian murderer. See the hypocrisy there? You claim it's not my decision as to if he's a true Christian...but in the same post assert yourself that he IS a christian. No hypocrasy on my part. For one, I do not condemn nor exalt him as a true anything. For another, I simply state that if a man calls himself a christian, I am not the person nor power whom makes that decision whether he is or not. Anymore than you have that right. When bush brought god into it, he made it about god. Whether he fits your or my criteria of christianity or not. the.dark.

RCdc -> RE: christian terrorism? (6/5/2009 2:37:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Truthiness Jesus also saved the life of a prostitute by telling those ready to stone her "He who is without sin cast the first stone." Jesus forgave her sins... ...but then told her to sin no more Yes, Jesus was loving, forgiving, and eager to help the sinners; enough to die for them. This is nothing I haven't known for decades. =) And so Jesus named prostitution a sin. So? He never condemend and named homosexuality as one, did he? In fact he exalted the man. Prostitution and homosexuality are hardly the same. the.dark.

Truthiness -> RE: christian terrorism? (6/5/2009 2:39:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarcyandthedarkNo hypocrasy on my part. For one, I do not condemn nor exalt him as a true anything. For another, I simply state that if a man calls himself a christian, I am not the person nor power whom makes that decision whether he is or not. Anymore than you have that right. Yet you seem to insist that he should be called a "Christian murderer" despite admitting you don't have the right to claim wether or not he is actually Christian. I don't really claim to have that right too. What I do have are the words of Jesus, the definition of "Christian" (follower of Christ), and the fact that this guy did something that Jesus absolutely forbade. It's not unreasonable to suspect that just maybe we don't know that this guy really is a Christian, and thus claiming it's "Christian Terrorism" is an assumption at it's best.

Truthiness -> RE: christian terrorism? (6/5/2009 2:42:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark quote: ORIGINAL: Truthiness Jesus also saved the life of a prostitute by telling those ready to stone her "He who is without sin cast the first stone." Jesus forgave her sins... ...but then told her to sin no more Yes, Jesus was loving, forgiving, and eager to help the sinners; enough to die for them. This is nothing I haven't known for decades. =) And so Jesus named prostitution a sin. So? He never condemend and named homosexuality as one, did he? In fact he exalted the man. Prostitution and homosexuality are hardly the same. the.dark. We don't know if Jesus spoke on homosexuality in his lifetime or not. There's a lot he's said that wasn't recorded in the Bible I'm sure. I do know that Romans describes it in the NT as being sinful. Jesus's compliment of the man's faith had absolutely nothing to do with wether or not he was homosexual, if he was homosexual.

NihilusZero -> RE: christian terrorism? (6/5/2009 2:43:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Truthiness Yes, Jesus was loving, forgiving, and eager to help the sinners; enough to die for them. This is nothing I haven't known for decades. =) So, surely you have the scripture handy where Jesus declares homosexuality a sin, yes?

DomKen -> RE: christian terrorism? (6/5/2009 2:45:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Truthiness Jesus also saved the life of a prostitute by telling those ready to stone her "He who is without sin cast the first stone." Jesus forgave her sins... So you haven't actually read the bible then. No version of the bible based on an accurate translation from the original sources says prostitute they all say adulterer. For instance KJV John 8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. At the very least you should read the bible and make sure you're not spouting popular misconceptions instead of what it actually says.

RCdc -> RE: christian terrorism? (6/5/2009 2:46:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Truthiness Yet you seem to insist that he should be called a "Christian murderer" despite admitting you don't have the right to claim wether or not he is actually Christian. I don't really claim to have that right too. What I do have are the words of Jesus, the definition of "Christian" (follower of Christ), and the fact that this guy did something that Jesus absolutely forbade. It's not unreasonable to suspect that just maybe we don't know that this guy really is a Christian, and thus claiming it's "Christian Terrorism" is an assumption at it's best. No, I am saying that if the man calls himself a christian and he murdered, then who am I to argue? If you are going to go on about how a person should be a christian, then very few fit the criteria. Are you a christian? Do you fulfil the 'rules'? the.dark.

Truthiness -> RE: christian terrorism? (6/5/2009 2:49:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Truthiness Jesus also saved the life of a prostitute by telling those ready to stone her "He who is without sin cast the first stone." Jesus forgave her sins... So you haven't actually read the bible then. No version of the bible based on an accurate translation from the original sources says prostitute they all say adulterer. For instance KJV John 8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. At the very least you should read the bible and make sure you're not spouting popular misconceptions instead of what it actually says. That was my mistake. Yes, it says adulterer. (Kinda at home with the flu heh). I'll edit the above for accuracy.

RCdc -> RE: christian terrorism? (6/5/2009 2:50:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Truthiness Jesus also saved the life of a prostitute by telling those ready to stone her "He who is without sin cast the first stone." Jesus forgave her sins... So you haven't actually read the bible then. No version of the bible based on an accurate translation from the original sources says prostitute they all say adulterer. For instance KJV John 8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. At the very least you should read the bible and make sure you're not spouting popular misconceptions instead of what it actually says. This is a very good point. In fact the words written simply tell her to leave her life of sin. She is not condemned either for adultry nor prostitution in the final words. And as we have been consistantly told, we are all sinners anyway.... so....... the.dark.

Truthiness -> RE: christian terrorism? (6/5/2009 2:51:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarcyandthedarkNo, I am saying that if the man calls himself a christian and he murdered, then who am I to argue? By that logic, you wouldn't argue with me if I claimed I was a martian with a 3 million IQ?

Kirata -> RE: christian terrorism? (6/5/2009 2:53:28 PM)
~ FR ~ I gotta say, I think Truthy has a point. Just because some damn fool waves a Bible or a Koran around while he spews his hateful nonsense doesn't make him a Christian or a Muslim. As far as I'm concerned, terrorists and murderers are terrorists and murderers, and whatever ideology or religion they choose to wrap themselves in is just packaging. Reminds me of the tale I've often told of the Buddhist monk who begged of his Abbot how best to teach the truths of the Sutras. The Abbot replied, "Burn them!" You can see his point. People will turn whatever is at hand to the purpose they want it for. The wrong motivation invariably leads to the wrong result. Garbage in, garbage out. K.

Truthiness -> RE: christian terrorism? (6/5/2009 2:56:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark If you are going to go on about how a person should be a christian, then very few fit the criteria. Are you a christian? Do you fulfil the 'rules'? "He that believes and is baptized shall be saved", etc..etc. I follow Jesus, which is what Christian means. I can't tell you what's in the murderer's heart...but his actions are very not Christian-like, based off the words of Jesus. And since Jesus made it clear that simply claiming to be his follower doesn't make it true...why are you quicker to believe his words than his actions?

kdsub -> RE: christian terrorism? (6/5/2009 2:56:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark Butch, I wasn't even looking at the whole muslim bit. I am looking at the one statement - that apparently he isn't a true christian. If a man claims to be killing in the name of god, regardless of whether you think he defines what a christian is - is still ling in the name of his god. If he makes the statement that he is only doing what Jesus told him and uses the bible as an example, then he is a christian murderer. If he does this and other things in an attempt to sway opinion, law or peoples behaviour through murder and fear, that is terrorism. Whether he is a 'true' christian is NOT your decision to make. It is gods. Whether you follow a 'true christians' lead is your decision or not. There are people out there that will and those that will not. There are catholics and christians and mormons and evangelicals and baptists - some dance, some don't. You can't choose who are the true and real christians just because it suits you. That is superiority. There is no hieracy in christianity. You don't get to be a better christian because your more loving, kinder, more studious, kill more sinners, save more people, convert more heatherns than another. the.dark. How can he use the Bible when it says Thou shall not kill... remember when God's people broke his commandments he caste them to hell...can you be a Christian and be in hell? But you are right about forgiveness... it is up to God in the end...but remember he may not forgive... I can't call a man that kills in cold blood against the rules of the Bible a Christian... now you may but I'll bet most Christians would not... Maybe that is the difference...you are not a Christian. Butch

RCdc -> RE: christian terrorism? (6/5/2009 2:58:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Truthiness quote: ORIGINAL: DarcyandthedarkNo, I am saying that if the man calls himself a christian and he murdered, then who am I to argue? By that logic, you wouldn't argue with me if I claimed I was a martian with a 3 million IQ? We are not talking aliens, we are talking the tenets of christianity and what that means to people who follow the bible. If we were talking about the xfiles or trekkies, that would be a different kettle of 'gagh'. Are you or are you not a christian? the.dark.

kdsub -> RE: christian terrorism? (6/5/2009 2:58:31 PM)
Just a side note...people can call themselves anything they want...but that does not make it true. Butch

NihilusZero -> RE: christian terrorism? (6/5/2009 2:58:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata ~ FR ~ I gotta say, I think Truthy has a point. Just because some damn fool waves a Bible or a Koran around while he spews his hateful nonsense doesn't make him a Christian or a Muslim. It does because there are no universal prerequisites that differentiate one who declares himself such from another. It's all interpretative. Now, it's a different thing to say all who call themselves christians would resort to this type of behavior or that there aren't christians who are more respectful of other human's civil liberties, but that's a different issue.

RCdc -> RE: christian terrorism? (6/5/2009 3:02:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Truthiness quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark If you are going to go on about how a person should be a christian, then very few fit the criteria. Are you a christian? Do you fulfil the 'rules'? "He that believes and is baptized shall be saved", etc..etc. I follow Jesus, which is what Christian means. I can't tell you what's in the murderer's heart...but his actions are very not Christian-like, based off the words of Jesus. And since Jesus made it clear that simply claiming to be his follower doesn't make it true...why are you quicker to believe his words than his actions? Then you do not murder, steal, never give false testimony(lie), honour your parents, love your neighbour, and have no possessions? the.dark.

Kirata -> RE: christian terrorism? (6/5/2009 3:03:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero It does because there are no universal prerequisites that differentiate one who declares himself such from another. Well there is after all the teachings of Christ... that's gotta qualify as at least a clue. It is perhaps an arguable matter in many details, but there are a few high points to serve as signposts. Generally speaking, and I think without too much theological quibble, Christ would not look favorably upon people committing rape, mayhem, and murder in his name. Just a guess, of course. [:D] K.

Truthiness -> RE: christian terrorism? (6/5/2009 3:04:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark quote: ORIGINAL: Truthiness quote: ORIGINAL: DarcyandthedarkNo, I am saying that if the man calls himself a christian and he murdered, then who am I to argue? By that logic, you wouldn't argue with me if I claimed I was a martian with a 3 million IQ? We are not talking aliens, we are talking the tenets of christianity and what that means to people who follow the bible. If we were talking about the xfiles or trekkies, that would be a different kettle of 'gagh'. Are you or are you not a christian? the.dark. And I was making a silly analogy to point out the dangers of blindly going by just what someone claims them to be. After all, as said above, Jesus made it clear that just claiming to follow him doesn't make it true.

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