Is belief......?

Is belief......? (Full Version)

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Aneirin -> Is belief......? (5/31/2009 4:00:51 PM)
Is belief in something possibly supernatural really a lack of belief in science ? Many look at a god as being the creator of all things, the reason we are here, why we live etc, but there are others that believe science has the answer. Science has made many discoveries and will make more discoveries, many of them pertaining to life. So could it be seen as the entity believers will not take science as a viable answer or even a way forward, they are in fact denying the viability of science through whatever means and prefering the unexplainable possible something other. Could it be the supernatural believers are in fact refusing to believe there is a possibility of something else, and so are are closed minded ?

cpK69 -> RE: Is belief......? (5/31/2009 4:03:34 PM)
Science is a tool for finding answers, not the answer itself. I believe that science will eventually catch up, or become irrelevant. Kim

Politesub53 -> RE: Is belief......? (5/31/2009 4:21:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin Could it be the supernatural believers are in fact refusing to believe there is a possibility of something else, and so are are closed minded ? People are only closed minded when they refuse to consider the other sides argument. If they have considered science and rejected it as an answer, then that isnt closed mindedness in my opinion.

littlewonder -> RE: Is belief......? (5/31/2009 4:27:41 PM)
I believe science and belief in god and faith go hand in hand. They work together in perfect balance and harmony.

Politesub53 -> RE: Is belief......? (5/31/2009 4:31:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder I believe science and belief in god and faith go hand in hand. They work together in perfect balance and harmony. What about when the two ideas clash, such as Darwinism ?

Rule -> RE: Is belief......? (5/31/2009 4:35:25 PM)
Evolution theory does not clash with Creation. Science and faith are two sides of the same coin. Some people see only one particular side; others see the whole coin, including the rim.

Politesub53 -> RE: Is belief......? (5/31/2009 4:37:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule Evolution theory does not clash with Creation. Science and faith are two sides of the same coin. Some people see only one particular side; others see the whole coin, including the rim. Your post sounds good but has no meaning. Adam and Eve are not the same side of the coin as evolution. Even looking at the rim.

Apocalypso -> RE: Is belief......? (5/31/2009 4:43:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 What about when the two ideas clash, such as Darwinism ? Religion and science aim to answer entirely different questions about the universe. They only clash when someone makes the category mistake of trying to use them outside of their remit.

TheHeretic -> RE: Is belief......? (5/31/2009 4:54:24 PM)
I believe there are many things, and many forms of energy, that science has yet to discover and quantify. In the meantime, "superstition" will often provide at least a rough paradigm to describe the phenomenon. Taking any such mythology literally will screw the picture up, though.

Politesub53 -> RE: Is belief......? (5/31/2009 4:57:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Apocalypso quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 What about when the two ideas clash, such as Darwinism ? Religion and science aim to answer entirely different questions about the universe. They only clash when someone makes the category mistake of trying to use them outside of their remit. How so, Adam and Eve and the origin of the species are exactly about the same subject, regardless of remit.

DomKen -> RE: Is belief......? (5/31/2009 5:00:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Your post sounds good but has no meaning. Adam and Eve are not the same side of the coin as evolution. Even looking at the rim. Most christian sects disagree with you.

intenze -> RE: Is belief......? (5/31/2009 5:01:56 PM)
I agree with Rule: evolution does not clash with the belief of a God and creation. Evolution clashes with the fundamentalist interpretation of the Bible. Understanding the science behind evolution does not prelude faith, it certainly did not for Charles Darwin. Science is only a method of trying to find answers to questions big and small. It is not a philosophy or a "lifestyle". People who call themselves scientists are simply agreeing to look at evidence using a set of tests, retests, reviews, and objective evalutation. I know many scientists who are deeply faithful and see no dichotomy there.

Politesub53 -> RE: Is belief......? (5/31/2009 5:06:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Your post sounds good but has no meaning. Adam and Eve are not the same side of the coin as evolution. Even looking at the rim. Most christian sects disagree with you. Yes, I should have said Darwinism and not evolution.

Apocalypso -> RE: Is belief......? (5/31/2009 5:26:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub5 How so, Adam and Eve and the origin of the species are exactly about the same subject, regardless of remit. The former is best seen as an allegory for me- it's supposed to be philosophically true, not literally. As long as that's accepted, there's no problem with believing in both. That's not a new concept in religion- Augustine held a similar position, well before the rise of modern science. Biblical literalism is a minority belief among Christianity. It's not shared by any of the main churches.

DomKen -> RE: Is belief......? (5/31/2009 5:28:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Your post sounds good but has no meaning. Adam and Eve are not the same side of the coin as evolution. Even looking at the rim. Most christian sects disagree with you. Yes, I should have said Darwinism and not evolution. define darwinism and then we can see if that is true. In the classic sense Darwinism is equivalent to the theory of evolution and once again most christian sects have no issue with any part of that, which is a good thing since it is essentially proven.

awmslave -> RE: Is belief......? (5/31/2009 5:59:39 PM)
quote: Science and faith are two sides of the same coin. Some people see only one particular side; others see the whole coin, including the rim. Not really. Science and faith are different things. Science uses scientific method to explain how things work. Religious beliefs can not be tested using scientific method. Science does not oppose religion though; it just has no tools to access higher level of consciousness (if it exists). As long as there is no scientific way to test religious and supernatural claims, scientists just leave them alone and say: we do not know. TV "scientists" with funny instruments chasing ghosts are just a joke for fools. Research in areas of morphogenesis, brain function and genome may give some answers in near future.

Arpig -> RE: Is belief......? (5/31/2009 6:03:17 PM)
Oddly enough, Stephen Hawkings is a profoundly religious man. If he sees no conflict between science and religion, then who am I to argue.[:)]

Musicmystery -> RE: Is belief......? (5/31/2009 6:49:03 PM)
quote: People are only closed minded when they refuse to consider the other sides argument. If they have considered science and rejected it as an answer, then that isnt closed mindedness in my opinion. As the first part of Kim's post says, science isn't a thing, but a process, a means of discovery, based on observation, forming guesses about those observations, and testing them to see whether they seem to work. Additional observations then build on that foundation. It's not built on answers, but rather the inquiry. To "reject" science is to reject the means of inquiry--you simply know everything already. To "reject it as an answer" is to set aside something that never was.

awmslave -> RE: Is belief......? (5/31/2009 9:28:54 PM)
quote: Oddly enough, Stephen Hawkings is a profoundly religious man. If he sees no conflict between science and religion, then who am I to argue. Stephen Hawkings is no God, he can be argued with. There is no conflict between science and religion. Sometimes it is mistakenly assumed that scientists are atheists.

Racquelle -> RE: Is belief......? (5/31/2009 9:42:33 PM)
Even to enter into the discussion of science as a conflict to religion belies a lack of knowledge about both. Science isn't just one thing, nor is religion. It seems akin to pondering whether a car is in conflict with a can of soda. That said, I have yet to meet the religious person who can't actually find something "scientific" they acknowledge as fact.

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