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RE: How to ease into kinky house cleaning ? - 6/3/2009 10:14:26 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		I was thinking about this. Keun, you are young and your partner may be young as well.  From reading your profile, I can't tell how long you have been together, but I see that you are into no strings housework and humiliation.  The kinky housework is a thing for you.

Now, if this girl has been used and negelcted and was treated more like an 'it' that is only good for housework, she is going to try to protect herself in any way she can or knows how.  Like any negelct or abuse, we tend to shy away from whatever it was, even if it is a different person we are dealing with and sometimes we do that without thought and from more of a reaction.  You pull away.

Now we all know that housework must be done and is something we shouldn't be able to just get out of because of laziness, but there may be more to this than laziness because of how she was treated.  If she was really wounded from that situation she had before and who knows what else before or after that, you may need to consider what I said earlier.  It is time for a time out in making housework a part of bdsm or d/s dynamic's.

You liked the idea of making it more fun for her, but that may be part of what she is having a problem with.  Combining the two together only re-enforced that housework is part of the dynamic's for you as well and it is taking her too close to the pain she is not yet healed from.  That is why I said to take the dynamic's out of housework and let it just be housework. 

Someone forced their will upon her and left her hurting because she was negelected and treated poorly.  Any relationship after that, she is going to be looking for the signs of a similar negelect or useage.  Just the word housework could trigger her and she goes into an automatic rejection of whatever it was that hurt her before.  Just like using a cane and someone being afraid of the cane because someone hurt them and treated them badly with it.  Future use of a cane would bring about the same reaction of rejecting it.  Without healing, someone just talking about a cane could bring about her reaction.

She must feel safe with you and if you are pushing in an area that someone else pushed in and she doesn't feel safe with you in some ways or is afraid you will eventually use her the same way, I can understand her feelings on it. 

I had someone who treated me badly and I could not get away from them.  Anyone doing anything close to what he did would make me sick, even though some things were things I even liked!  I was young and refused to do even what I liked because it was used to treat me badly.  Until I healed, I would see anyone trying to convince me or push me in it as the first person who did it, forgetting emotionally that the newer person wasn't that other person and had different motives.

I would think a nice, safe conversation... woman to woman... not even dominant to submissive would be in order.  She knows you like kinky housework and you have to tell her and make it clear that you are backing off the kinky housework and it just simply needs to be done... by both of you.  It is a chore to do in life and you will not objectify her in the process of the chore.  I would also do this on a day off rather than right after work and I wouldn't annouce anything close to what wounded her on a phone while she was at work.  Consider her well.

If she is just being lazy... sorry, grow up... but you didn't say she was lazy, you said she had been wounded.  As her dominant you might want to consider that the prior situation wounded her and you need to make her safe from anything that would bring it all back.  Give it time before you push your kinky will.  Prove to her that you see her as far more than someone for kinky pleasure and you see the young woman standing there... not just an it. 

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: How to ease into kinky house cleaning ? - 6/3/2009 12:08:36 PM   
FullfigRIMAAM1


Posts: 1160
Joined: 11/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper
When a person gets used (by the not so fun definition), they are being exploited.
I know a few people for whom housework is fun, and a release of  excess energy.   Most however, are like me, and they find it tedious and boring.   Still, it has to be done, and if there is a submissive or slave with whom I'm having a relationship, it is largely (80% +) going to be done by him, rather than myself or me paying siblings to do it for me.

quote:

Some people enjoy this feeling. Persons must decide what, if any, manner of reciprocation they require to not feel exploited.
Agreed only to the extent that a submissive can negotiate most anything with his/her dominant partner.   I don't name one or the other in my profile, because to me, a submissive submits to the dominant, and a slave serves to my specifications, so no major difference.   As to reciprocation, I suppose that is up to each dominant.   In my case, there is no tit for tat negotiations.   There is service, and than we get to have fun when I say...  This has worked fairly well for me in my relationships.

quote:

The line between "I say, you do" and feeling exploited and abused is to be drawn at the individual level. I submit that the girl in question was being used by her last owner.
I disagree.   Yes she was being used, but that's what owners do with slaves/properties.   As she did not want to be owned and used by that particular person, she left, which is always anyone's prerogative in a relationship.   She does not get martyrdom because he made her do housework...   If he were making her work and taking all her money, without any set up for a future retirement/living, I might agree with you, that he maybe was taking his ownership too far for her safety, and well being.

quote:

All that said, I agree with you: One of the greatest ways a s-type can serve it to let themselves get used a little bit =)
Thanks, but I would intend to use him a lot more than just a little bit.    Fortunately for me, this has never been a point of contention with a boy.  

I'm reading through some of the responses, and finding wonderful advice, except I've never heard of anyone being traumatized by having to do housework.
quote:

Keun
My sub (live-in) was in a relationship prior to being with Me in which she did housework almost all of the time
I can understand the not getting gratification/reward/sex being frustrating, but hardly trauma that should require intense intervention...  
quote:

Lockit 
Someone forced their will upon her and left her hurting because she was negelected and treated poorly.
I think we may be assuming facts not in evidence.   FORCING his will upon her?   She was in a relationship where she wanted more intimacy, and she didn't get it, and instead got to do a whole lot of housework she didn't want to do.   Haven't we all been there?    I actually wonder what her former owner would have to say in regards to the relationship, and how things went down. 
quote:

Any relationship after that, she is going to be looking for the signs of a similar negelect or useage.  Just the word housework could trigger her and she goes into an automatic rejection of whatever it was that hurt her before.  Just like using a cane and someone being afraid of the cane because someone hurt them and treated them badly with it.  Future use of a cane would bring about the same reaction of rejecting it.  Without healing, someone just talking about a cane could bring about her reaction.

She must feel safe with you and if you are pushing in an area that someone else pushed in and she doesn't feel safe with you in some ways or is afraid you will eventually use her the same way, I can understand her feelings on it.
 I'm sorry, but I would skip anyone who felt housework was traumatizing, unless much uglier things were happening while housework were being done.    M

< Message edited by FullfigRIMAAM1 -- 6/3/2009 12:21:31 PM >

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(in reply to HeavansKeeper)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: How to ease into kinky house cleaning ? - 6/3/2009 7:13:32 PM   
HeavansKeeper


Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		FullfigRIMAAM,

You seem to know what you want out of a relationship, and that's good. You want a housekeeper, as you put it "a male wife". I wish you good hunting and a harem of chefs and jar openers.

The girl we're discussing here, however, was not so keen on her desires. Take a kinky submissive guy who really wants to get beat up, sissy stuff, cbt, strap-ons, face sitting, gang bangs - the D/s porno works. (Based on your profile) He would be poorly suited for you. He'd find far too much cooking, cleaning, vacuuming, washing, drying and not enough beating, spitting, flogging, etc.

The expression "once bitten, twice shy" comes to mind. If Mr. Kink's first wild ride was composed mostly of laundry, and he did no additional research, it's a reasonable concern for future relationships.

Regarding exploitation. I agree that having someone work and then garnering their wages is a great example, I can see the apparent ambiguity in our words. I say "She's being made to do, exclusively, things she did not expect to do." You say "It's just washing clothes. It's not that bad compared to slave girls who are whored out." We're both right. Only Keun's girl can decide if she felt exploited for her labor.

I agree with you about s-types an their level of servitude: They do as their told and its fun when Mistress says so. I don't think the girl in question (Keun, if you're reading, what can we call her? "The girl in question" sounds like a defendant) knows what she is. She's clearly not a slave. She's clearly not a TPE submissive. She probably wants to feel power exchange with a healthy dose of kinky behavior. Because of her inexperience, she is not of sound mind to enter informal D/s contracts*.

Again, her being used is an innate part of being property. But did she know she would become chattel on the outset? Maybe she thought this was going to be a "spice things up in the bedroom... and occasionally the bathroom" thing.

Someone who can confidently say "I am a ___________" can be used as such, and be happy. Anyone who says "I am a total 100% TPE, no limits slave" should feel used at the command of "wash this and bake me brownies". Please note, I'm not advocating a need for titles, but people know what they are and what they're not.

*Contract here meaning the explicit or implicit expectations of each other that all relationships have.

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RE: How to ease into kinky house cleaning ? - 6/3/2009 7:56:18 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		I don't think the housework was where the wound came in.  More like being treated like an object for use only without any real relationship.  Who knows...  People can feel used in many ways and it gets to them it seems.  But what a great out... to claim a wound.  I've heard this from men who fear commitment... I'm just scared... I got hurt...  But if there is a real wound, it needs to be addressed. I sure don't put up with much for long.

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RE: How to ease into kinky house cleaning ? - 6/3/2009 9:02:20 PM   
FullfigRIMAAM1


Posts: 1160
Joined: 11/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

I agree with you about s-types an their level of servitude: They do as their told and its fun when Mistress says so. I don't think the girl in question (Keun, if you're reading, what can we call her? "The girl in question" sounds like a defendant) knows what she is. She's clearly not a slave. She's clearly not a TPE submissive. She probably wants to feel power exchange with a healthy dose of kinky behavior. Because of her inexperience, she is not of sound mind to enter informal D/s contracts*.
Perfectly well said, and certainly not something with which I can argue.    M

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: How to ease into kinky house cleaning ? - 6/3/2009 9:20:22 PM   
Keun


Posts: 26
Joined: 10/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper
When a person gets used (by the not so fun definition), they are being exploited.
I know a few people for whom housework is fun, and a release of  excess energy.   Most however, are like me, and they find it tedious and boring.   Still, it has to be done, and if there is a submissive or slave with whom I'm having a relationship, it is largely (80% +) going to be done by him, rather than myself or me paying siblings to do it for me.

quote:

Some people enjoy this feeling. Persons must decide what, if any, manner of reciprocation they require to not feel exploited.
Agreed only to the extent that a submissive can negotiate most anything with his/her dominant partner.   I don't name one or the other in my profile, because to me, a submissive submits to the dominant, and a slave serves to my specifications, so no major difference.   As to reciprocation, I suppose that is up to each dominant.   In my case, there is no tit for tat negotiations.   There is service, and than we get to have fun when I say...  This has worked fairly well for me in my relationships.

quote:

The line between "I say, you do" and feeling exploited and abused is to be drawn at the individual level. I submit that the girl in question was being used by her last owner.
I disagree.   Yes she was being used, but that's what owners do with slaves/properties.   As she did not want to be owned and used by that particular person, she left, which is always anyone's prerogative in a relationship.   She does not get martyrdom because he made her do housework...   If he were making her work and taking all her money, without any set up for a future retirement/living, I might agree with you, that he maybe was taking his ownership too far for her safety, and well being.

quote:

All that said, I agree with you: One of the greatest ways a s-type can serve it to let themselves get used a little bit =)
Thanks, but I would intend to use him a lot more than just a little bit.    Fortunately for me, this has never been a point of contention with a boy.  

I'm reading through some of the responses, and finding wonderful advice, except I've never heard of anyone being traumatized by having to do housework.
quote:

Keun
My sub (live-in) was in a relationship prior to being with Me in which she did housework almost all of the time
I can understand the not getting gratification/reward/sex being frustrating, but hardly trauma that should require intense intervention...  
quote:

Lockit 
Someone forced their will upon her and left her hurting because she was negelected and treated poorly.
I think we may be assuming facts not in evidence.   FORCING his will upon her?   She was in a relationship where she wanted more intimacy, and she didn't get it, and instead got to do a whole lot of housework she didn't want to do.   Haven't we all been there?    I actually wonder what her former owner would have to say in regards to the relationship, and how things went down. 
quote:

Any relationship after that, she is going to be looking for the signs of a similar negelect or useage.  Just the word housework could trigger her and she goes into an automatic rejection of whatever it was that hurt her before.  Just like using a cane and someone being afraid of the cane because someone hurt them and treated them badly with it.  Future use of a cane would bring about the same reaction of rejecting it.  Without healing, someone just talking about a cane could bring about her reaction.

She must feel safe with you and if you are pushing in an area that someone else pushed in and she doesn't feel safe with you in some ways or is afraid you will eventually use her the same way, I can understand her feelings on it.
 I'm sorry, but I would skip anyone who felt housework was traumatizing, unless much uglier things were happening while housework were being done.    M


Perhaps I'm a bit unconventional, but I actually enjoy housework myself. I also believe in this relationship as a partnership in 'addition to' a power exchange, and thus I have absolutely no problem doing my own dirty work. I have a very 'Type A' personality which causes me to be an organizational freak in the house - something I learned long ago is to realize that not everyone has that same mentality and I can't force it upon anyone.

With that, first and foremost I am a woman who loves women. I adore my partner, who happens to be my sub - not my slave. In this post, let's keep one thing in mind - I want what is best for her, always. I want her to be healthy. I want 'us' to be healthy.

To Fullfig: My sub and her last Mistress parted on good terms and still speak. They both know the relationship was not healthy, and know that the terms of it were exploited. She was a WONDERFUL Dominant, and still is. They just did not work out. The bottom line is that it was My sub's very first D/s relationship and it simply was not what she needed, NOR what she 'thought' she had signed up for... therefore, YES... she was and is traumatized from many aspects of it.

Carrying on here...

I don't want a housekeeper. I want exactly what I have, which happens to be the following in order of significance to me: 1. Partner/Friend 2. Lover 3. Submissive ... without the first two, I would not consider the third. It's just how I roll.

HK : You can call her 'Brat' if you like.

Lockit - you're first two sentences in your last post are spot on. I agree that I believe she had no idea what she was getting into for her last relationship, and never liked it from the start. To throw aside My advocacy of her for a moment, she certainly could have left the moment things weren't going as she had planned - she made the choice not to because she was always given promises of "Soon", "Next week", and "Later" from her Dominant. My sub cleaned and was semi-financially responsible for a woman who did not lay a hand on her once- sexually or otherwise - for over two years before the relationship ended...with the promises of a dominant's hand always on the back burner. During that entire time, she witnessed the same Dominant playing with other subs consistently while My sub did all of her dirty work - including cleaning the dungeon after others were played with. I can't speak for anyone else, but I can certainly see the emotional turmoil that would come with that.

Thank you all for your responses... ESPECIALLY the tips - I greatly appreciate them -

K

< Message edited by Keun -- 6/3/2009 9:24:02 PM >

(in reply to FullfigRIMAAM1)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: How to ease into kinky house cleaning ? - 6/3/2009 9:39:00 PM   
FullfigRIMAAM1


Posts: 1160
Joined: 11/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

I want exactly what I have, which happens to be the following in order of significance to me: 1. Partner/Friend 2. Lover 3. Submissive ... without the first two, I would not consider the third. It's just how I roll.
Well, I for one am glad there is no problem than.   Love is a wonderful thing, and I celebrate it anytime anyone finds it.    M

_____________________________

The place to improve the world is first in one's own heart and head and hands.-Robert M. Persig

Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence Erich Fromm

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: How to ease into kinky house cleaning ? - 6/4/2009 7:01:17 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper

Keun,

My suggestion would be remote control vibrating eggs. They make any menial task a sensual treat.

To further assuage her that you're not using her for cheap house cleaning, being there is key. Touching her, watching her, tugging her leash, taking breaks to use the maid for mouth sex... Make the "chore" a framing device. A theme for the scene.

Imagine sitting on top of the dryer, pulling her face in for a few licks every time she reaches in for an armful of dry clothes...
Scrubbing down the toilet is a lot more fun when getting pounded with a strap on. Finish with a hard spank and a "That better be shiny when I come back, Toots."
Take tasteful photographs as she takes dishes from the dishwasher.
Do some of the chores and let her play... She can be the dog that barks at the vacuum, charging at it, giving it a swat and running off.

I haven't a clue how hardcore you and your toy like to be, so my suggestions will end while still being polite for mixed kinky company.

I agree with some of the other people posting: In the big picture, make her learn her last owner was a user, and you are not.


OK, i just have to ask....Have you ever tried to scrub a toilet while being fucked in the ass?

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RE: How to ease into kinky house cleaning ? - 6/4/2009 7:04:02 AM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline
quote:

OK, i just have to ask....Have you ever tried to scrub a toilet while being fucked in the ass?
if you bend over too far you are going to be eye to eye with the TidyBowl man 

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: How to ease into kinky house cleaning ? - 6/4/2009 9:08:19 AM   
Keun


Posts: 26
Joined: 10/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper

Keun,

My suggestion would be remote control vibrating eggs. They make any menial task a sensual treat.

To further assuage her that you're not using her for cheap house cleaning, being there is key. Touching her, watching her, tugging her leash, taking breaks to use the maid for mouth sex... Make the "chore" a framing device. A theme for the scene.

Imagine sitting on top of the dryer, pulling her face in for a few licks every time she reaches in for an armful of dry clothes...
Scrubbing down the toilet is a lot more fun when getting pounded with a strap on. Finish with a hard spank and a "That better be shiny when I come back, Toots."
Take tasteful photographs as she takes dishes from the dishwasher.
Do some of the chores and let her play... She can be the dog that barks at the vacuum, charging at it, giving it a swat and running off.

I haven't a clue how hardcore you and your toy like to be, so my suggestions will end while still being polite for mixed kinky company.

I agree with some of the other people posting: In the big picture, make her learn her last owner was a user, and you are not.


OK, i just have to ask....Have you ever tried to scrub a toilet while being fucked in the ass?



Ohhh the possibilities LOL

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: How to ease into kinky house cleaning ? - 6/4/2009 10:33:16 AM   
HeavansKeeper


Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

OK, i just have to ask....Have you ever tried to scrub a toilet while being fucked in the ass?


No, but I suspect the brush gets clutched in the palm while the hands are pressed hard to cold slick porcelain. =)

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: How to ease into kinky house cleaning ? - 6/4/2009 12:25:30 PM   
slavekal


Posts: 1486
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		I would think that some of the same theories on "Real Women Don't Do Housework" would apply to a female slave as well as a slave.  To shape behavior, one has to reinforce it.

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RE: How to ease into kinky house cleaning ? - 6/4/2009 3:24:32 PM   
Sylverdawn


Posts: 1123
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		For me the key pharse is ..lack of natural submissive tendencies... perhaps you see it and just do not wish to acknowledge it... it could be that she isnt submissive..maybe she is simply a bottom... nothing wrong with that.. bottoms are great people.. exceptional partners..and amazing lovers.. but submissives they will never be...

just my two cents..SD

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: How to ease into kinky house cleaning ? - 6/4/2009 7:02:11 PM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		A lot of people are submissive only in a sexual way. I personally am not interested in that kind of D/s, but when it involves control and *feeling* submission/dominance, I don't consider it to be just bottoming (within others' relationships). There are thousands of men here who are perfectly happy with women who are submissive in the bedroom, but otherwise have a vanilla relationship.

Keun, you obviously care deeply for your submissive. I hope that as the two of you grow together, she becomes less defensive in this area, but it sounds like either way, you love and enjoy each other very much.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: How to ease into kinky house cleaning ? - 6/4/2009 10:48:08 PM   
OneMoreWaste


Posts: 910
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Keun
Before she left work, I called her and said "when you come home tonight, we're going to do some kinky cleaning together"... then when she got home, I had her shower and told her to put on something sexy... she did so, came out and said she wanted a nap..


Gaww-DAMN female submissives have it good


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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: How to ease into kinky house cleaning ? - 6/5/2009 7:32:47 PM   
Keun


Posts: 26
Joined: 10/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OneMoreWaste

quote:

ORIGINAL: Keun
Before she left work, I called her and said "when you come home tonight, we're going to do some kinky cleaning together"... then when she got home, I had her shower and told her to put on something sexy... she did so, came out and said she wanted a nap..


Gaww-DAMN female submissives have it good



LMAO

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: How to ease into kinky house cleaning ? - 6/6/2009 1:03:34 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
OK, i just have to ask....Have you ever tried to scrub a toilet while being fucked in the ass?


I'll have to put that one in the mental file.


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RE: How to ease into kinky house cleaning ? - 6/6/2009 1:10:45 AM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		That sounds like the perfect heading for a "housekeeper wanted" advertisement.
quote:




ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
OK, i just have to ask....Have you ever tried to scrub a toilet while being fucked in the ass?


I'll have to put that one in the mental file.




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RE: How to ease into kinky house cleaning ? - 6/6/2009 3:08:47 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
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Status: offline 		  On the church noticeboard

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RE: How to ease into kinky house cleaning ? - 6/9/2009 4:38:48 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Keun


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper

Keun,

My suggestion would be remote control vibrating eggs. They make any menial task a sensual treat.

To further assuage her that you're not using her for cheap house cleaning, being there is key. Touching her, watching her, tugging her leash, taking breaks to use the maid for mouth sex... Make the "chore" a framing device. A theme for the scene.

Imagine sitting on top of the dryer, pulling her face in for a few licks every time she reaches in for an armful of dry clothes...
Scrubbing down the toilet is a lot more fun when getting pounded with a strap on. Finish with a hard spank and a "That better be shiny when I come back, Toots."
Take tasteful photographs as she takes dishes from the dishwasher.
Do some of the chores and let her play... She can be the dog that barks at the vacuum, charging at it, giving it a swat and running off.

I haven't a clue how hardcore you and your toy like to be, so my suggestions will end while still being polite for mixed kinky company.

I agree with some of the other people posting: In the big picture, make her learn her last owner was a user, and you are not.


OK, i just have to ask....Have you ever tried to scrub a toilet while being fucked in the ass?



Ohhh the possibilities LOL


Yea, they are endless. However if your having trouble getting her to do housework, I doubt adding kink to it will help. Maybe if you tried just having her clean and didn't make it a ds thing, she might respond better. Then later on, you can add some kinkiness to it. Personally if I live with someone, they are going to do their share of housework. It's certainly not my favorite thing, but it is part of life and needs to get done.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to Keun)
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