RE: Yikes! I think the honeymoon is over.

RE: Yikes! I think the honeymoon is over. (Full Version)

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MarsBonfire -> RE: Yikes! I think the honeymoon is over. (6/3/2009 6:09:30 AM)
His failure to close Gitmo, and move the inmates there into the regular US justice system IS very disappointing. But, this shitpile left to him by the "cheerleader in chief" isn't something you can just wave a wand over and have it disappear. The Dems in Congress wanted a plan in place for distribution of those being held, before they would appove the funding, and that is being worked out as we speak. It could take up to another year. Yes, his sticking with the military tribunal system for the time being is also a major disappointment. But the legal can o' worms that "Junior" opened up when he decided to redefine those being held as "enemy combatants" rather than POW's, and to consider the Geneva Conventions "quaint" has created a HUGE problem to solve. We all knew that getting the US back to being a nation of laws, rather than of fourth-rate dictator wannabes was going to be a long, rather dark, road. Some of these problems might not be solved until his Dem successor takes office...

Mezrem -> RE: Yikes! I think the honeymoon is over. (6/3/2009 7:04:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire His failure to close Gitmo, and move the inmates there into the regular US justice system IS very disappointing. But, this shitpile left to him by the "cheerleader in chief" isn't something you can just wave a wand over and have it disappear. The Dems in Congress wanted a plan in place for distribution of those being held, before they would appove the funding, and that is being worked out as we speak. It could take up to another year. Yes, his sticking with the military tribunal system for the time being is also a major disappointment. But the legal can o' worms that "Junior" opened up when he decided to redefine those being held as "enemy combatants" rather than POW's, and to consider the Geneva Conventions "quaint" has created a HUGE problem to solve. We all knew that getting the US back to being a nation of laws, rather than of fourth-rate dictator wannabes was going to be a long, rather dark, road. Some of these problems might not be solved until his Dem successor takes office... Um alot of these guys are terrorists... they where not in the uniform of any country.. That alone would not give them the protection of the Geneva Convention.. just one point with your post. The other is the thought that these people have acess to civilian courts. Why the hell should we give them these rights? I understand you don't like the former administration... thats fine I did not exatly care for good old George eather but the use of military courts for these kinds of things is not new. Kind of odd that the man who was supposed to bring change has not changed alot at all... so when does any of this become Obama's problem.. not that I care.. you see I blame them all.

BitaTruble -> RE: Yikes! I think the honeymoon is over. (6/3/2009 7:06:10 AM)
This has been going on for decades and some folks were complaining about stuff the day after the election. Why hasn't Obama fixed it yet! Hell, even Jesus got three years before he was crucified.

DarkSteven -> RE: Yikes! I think the honeymoon is over. (6/3/2009 7:11:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire His failure to close Gitmo, and move the inmates there into the regular US justice system IS very disappointing. He could close Gitmo down in weeks if he had a place for the inmates. Unfortunately, there's hearsay evidence against them, and confessions extracted under torture. I'll be willing to bet that records there are lousy. In other words, there's little evidence against them, and I'd be willing to bet that every single one hates America with a passion by now. I'm hoping that Obama can fix this, but it's pretty badly screwed up.

Thadius -> RE: Yikes! I think the honeymoon is over. (6/3/2009 7:15:12 AM)
Mornin Bita, The difference is, that Jesus had a plan.... [;)] Then again perhaps all of the court cases that are going to be coming are part of the stimulus plan. I hope all is well with you, Thadius

Thadius -> RE: Yikes! I think the honeymoon is over. (6/3/2009 7:32:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven quote: ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire His failure to close Gitmo, and move the inmates there into the regular US justice system IS very disappointing. He could close Gitmo down in weeks if he had a place for the inmates. Unfortunately, there's hearsay evidence against them, and confessions extracted under torture. I'll be willing to bet that records there are lousy. In other words, there's little evidence against them, and I'd be willing to bet that every single one hates America with a passion by now. I'm hoping that Obama can fix this, but it's pretty badly screwed up. Just curious if you are suggesting that we change the ROE for our soldiers and Marines to include evidence gathering... or perhaps they should just put a bullet in the head of any enemy combatant in the field and not put our politicians and legal system through the rigors of figuring all of this out? Whether we like it or not Gitmo will not be closing for quite awhile, ironically due to a couple of immigration laws that Obama supported and voted for. I became confused while reading the brief that the White House presented to the courts, as it sounded exactly like something Cheney would have written. I guess the change we were promised, is actually just what will be left in our paychecks and pockets if we are lucky... I wish you well, Thadius

CreativeDominant -> RE: Yikes! I think the honeymoon is over. (6/3/2009 7:47:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire His failure to close Gitmo, and move the inmates there into the regular US justice system IS very disappointing. But, this shitpile left to him by the "cheerleader in chief" isn't something you can just wave a wand over and have it disappear. The Dems in Congress wanted a plan in place for distribution of those being held, before they would appove the funding, and that is being worked out as we speak. It could take up to another year. Yes, his sticking with the military tribunal system for the time being is also a major disappointment. But the legal can o' worms that "Junior" opened up when he decided to redefine those being held as "enemy combatants" rather than POW's, and to consider the Geneva Conventions "quaint" has created a HUGE problem to solve. He didn't "redefine" them...the Geneva Convention defined them. Enemy combatants are those engaged in acts of warfare against the U. S. who do not wear the uniform of another country's military. A POW is a Prisoner of War...an enemy soldier wearing the military uniform of another country. quote: We all knew that getting the US back to being a nation of laws, rather than of fourth-rate dictator wannabes was going to be a long, rather dark, road. Some of these problems might not be solved until his Dem successor takes office... Actually...given the nationalization of General Motors, we're doing a pretty good job of continuing down the road to a fourth-rate dictatorship. Taking over and nationalizing businesses is always a good start towards just that.

Arpig -> RE: Yikes! I think the honeymoon is over. (6/3/2009 8:16:00 AM)
quote: So you think these guys are all from coffee shops over there. They where having a nice cup of coffee and are grabbed up by those evil Americans and taken to be abused for the amusement of our people in uniform.. oh wow and here I thought they where trying to kill our people on a battle field... If that were the case, then there would be no need for this new "preventative" detention now would there. It is intended for those that the Gvt cannot convict, because they have not got the evidence that they did anything. They have no evidence, yet they just "know" these guys are so dangerous that they must be locked up indefinately, without any form of trial. quote: The other is the thought that these people have acess to civilian courts. Why the hell should we give them these rights? I understand you don't like the former administration... thats fine I did not exatly care for good old George eather but the use of military courts for these kinds of things is not new. The Pres was talking about locking up people that even the military commissions couldn't convict of anything, let alone the civilian courts of the U.S. And there is nothing to prevent the concept of "preventative detention" from being expanded from "enemy combatants" to domestic terrorists, and from there, who knows where.... “First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists, but I was neither, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out. And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.” ~ Dietrich Bonhoeffer

Emperor1956 -> RE: Yikes! I think the honeymoon is over. (6/3/2009 8:20:53 AM)
You thought the honeymoon was over BEFORE? Watch what happens now that Obama has had the temerity to suggest that Israel might have to enforce its "no settlements" policy.

Mezrem -> RE: Yikes! I think the honeymoon is over. (6/3/2009 8:36:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig The Pres was talking about locking up people that even the military commissions couldn't convict of anything, let alone the civilian courts of the U.S. Then I agree.. and if thier country will not take them back, what then. I sure as hell don't want them here. They where taken in for a reason. Our men and ladies over there in uinform are busy enough without having to worry about collecting evidence on people who want them dead.

BitaTruble -> RE: Yikes! I think the honeymoon is over. (6/3/2009 8:45:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius Mornin Bita, The difference is, that Jesus had a plan.... [;)] Then again perhaps all of the court cases that are going to be coming are part of the stimulus plan. I hope all is well with you, Thadius Well, Gods plan and even that took billions of years until fruition plus, he let Jesus start with a clean slate. Obama hasn't been quite so fortunate. [:D] All is very well with me, thanks. Hope the same for you. Nice to see you posting. :)

Lucylastic -> RE: Yikes! I think the honeymoon is over. (6/3/2009 9:54:09 AM)
Obama had a honeymoon? ok thats one of the funniest things Ive heard since granny caught her nipples in the mangle

philosophy -> RE: Yikes! I think the honeymoon is over. (6/3/2009 9:57:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mezrem They where taken in for a reason. Our men and ladies over there in uinform are busy enough without having to worry about collecting evidence on people who want them dead. ...one reason some of them were taken in was that the US military offered cash to anyone who brought them a terrorist and some people had neighbours that needed money. This doesn't apply to all of them obviously, but if the only burden of proof you need of guilt is that the individual is in custody, then you may want to reacquaint yourself with the basic concepts of justice.

Arpig -> RE: Yikes! I think the honeymoon is over. (6/3/2009 10:04:40 AM)
What philo said

popeye1250 -> RE: Yikes! I think the honeymoon is over. (6/3/2009 10:33:14 AM)
If you keep voting for "Dems" or "Repubs" what do you expect? Both of them are in the watch pockets of big buiness. Bailing out big banks, brokerages and insurance cos. is right out of Bush's big money playbook. Rule number one in that playbook is; "Keep the wealthy wealthy at any cost!" And that's what's happening! You put people like Geithner in there and what do you expect, "change?" The only "change" going on is "which" rich people belly up to the Taxpayer's money trough. Where does it say anywhere that the Taxpayer's job is to keep wealthy people wealthy? Dems and Repubs? Like that lady on tv used to say; "Stop the madness!"

subrob1967 -> RE: Yikes! I think the honeymoon is over. (6/3/2009 10:38:12 AM)
I'm waiting for the DOJ to snatch Rush and Hannity in the middle of the night and hold them as right wing extremists.

Lucylastic -> RE: Yikes! I think the honeymoon is over. (6/3/2009 10:42:12 AM)
that is a fantasy of mine Rob, complete with waterboarding,electrical play and 179 hours of sleepdeprivation.....altho I think we can leave off the nekid picturesshudder Lucy

CreativeDominant -> RE: Yikes! I think the honeymoon is over. (6/3/2009 12:33:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic that is a fantasy of mine Rob, complete with waterboarding,electrical play and 179 hours of sleepdeprivation.....altho I think we can leave off the nekid picturesshudder Lucy Let's hope they grab up Michael Moore and Janeane Garaffolo (sp) and treat them in the same way for being "leftist extremists". After all, the left is big on equality of outcome, aren't they?

CruelNUnsual -> RE: Yikes! I think the honeymoon is over. (6/3/2009 1:25:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper I actually think he's doing rather well for a president with zero funds to use. His words are very pretty and we can still afford to fly Air Force One wherever he has to go. Maybe if we didn't recklessly spend the family nest egg, we could afford to put the kids through college and give sick little Timmy medicine. Oh well. I guess by "zero funds to use" you mean the 12 zeros after the 1 in his spending plans.

Lucylastic -> RE: Yikes! I think the honeymoon is over. (6/3/2009 1:38:50 PM)
you have who you want in your fantasy and I will have mine....[:D]

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