RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power?

RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (Full Version)

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NihilusZero -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 6:06:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rednicky Because vanilla hasn't worked out for me. Men treat me like glass in real life and are afraid to challenge me, even if I'm wrong. Maybe it's because I'm small. maybe it's because I'm black (I am in a dominantly white area). I don't know. And the opposite sex is especially notorious for this. I guess I'm over compensating by wanting a Dominant man (someone I know won't tip toe around me). I don't really know. And this becomes an example where leadership and marie2 are dead on. The discovery process shouldn't ever be one where you try to fit yourself into a hole already made. It's about finding the clothes that fit what best suits you...and to do that, you need to discover what it is you need/want first. What brings you joy...what you can be upset about while still being able to fall asleep knowing you've done what will move your life in a direction you think will most fulfill you. Perhaps I, for instance, have had a tendency here to minimize a non-sub (by the thread's standards) when it's truly of little consequence in your search. If what suits you best is a mostly-vanilla relationship where you have an aggressive partner to push you and you get some kin thrown in the mix, then go for it. The reason I brought up what submission means (subjectively or not) is because it forces you to realize what it is you're deciding for yourself. It can be difficulty and confusing for someone new to discovering their niche in WIITWD when more familiar people are able to more convincingly voice their contentment in the roles they've chosen. Just because someone can express how much yielding to every whim of their Dom gives them butterflies doesn't mean you need to push any of those expectations onto yourself until you feel them too (if you'll feel them at all). With so much opportunity for variety, if your figurative salad works better with one less leaf of lettuce and two more slices of cucumbers, by all means search for that. Many of us have ideals that, in a broad sense, can match very closely as far as our pholosophies, but each of us always has minute variations we specifically seek.

missturbation -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 6:07:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rednicky Missturbation, I said earlier that the situation itself was hypothetical. I was faced with a similar situation with a potential Dom. We were throwing ideas at each other about how it'd be if we were in a relationship. He threw this scenario at me and I told him no. He asked me why. We sort of got into an argument and gave up on one another. I guess he did what a lot of Doms said you'd do: re-evaluate the relationship and probably leave. I presented it as something real on this thread so it would be taken somewhat seriously. And that a 'friend' went through it (convincing, huh?). I felt like if I told you all that this was only a conversation, I'd get a whole bunch of "Oh that's not real though. You need to wait until you're in a real relationship. Then you'll see how it really is and this situation will be a non-issue." Ah i see. You might have got and well i am saying it now lol, that once you are in a relationship you might feel differently. A few years ago i could never imagine i would have wanted to cook, clean, take care domestically of a man. I hate housework and domesticity with a vengeance. But for the right man i find it quite blissful. Don't get me wrong there are still times i don't want to cook, clean, iron and stuff but i do it because that is what my dynamic with Sir includes. He asks, i obey. You by the sounds of things have to find a man willing to accept you are not going to be a domestic goddess at all times or, like i said earlier you are going to have to suck it up and get on with it.

NihilusZero -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 6:10:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: colouredin quote: ORIGINAL: rednicky I feel like he'd take advantage of that but maybe that's the idea. I'm not sure. Or should I keep the 'day' thing to myself? IF you do not trust him why would you be with him? Is it just about point scoring? Presumably because her emotional style does not match with common D/s methods. While trust is a primary issue that is to be determined in a D/s relationship, for many other relationships (and even a share od D/s relationships as well) the trust is one that takes a slow growth pattern.

rednicky -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 6:11:29 PM)
Okay Daven. I guess how I present myself in these forums is a little misleading. I'm about to bring race in things but it's nothing bad. I know how people here hate to talk about it. Even though I live around a lot of white people, I've never really been comfortable around them. It has nothing to do with who they are. It's just how they act. I'm not use to it. I tried to be but I just feel so left out. Even when they're being nice, I just can't mesh with them. So of course I'm not too chummy with them. So I suppose I come off as stern and anti-social to them. I hope they don't think I'm racist or anything but that's just how things are where I live and go to school. I'm really nice though. I'm judgmental online because I can get away with it. I'm a sweet as a button and extroverted in real life when I'm in a good environment and shy when I'm not. Sooo....I guess I'm like everyone else lol. Ummm...what else should I respond to?

catize -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 6:14:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rednicky Missturbation, I said earlier that the situation itself was hypothetical. I was faced with a similar situation with a potential Dom. We were throwing ideas at each other about how it'd be if we were in a relationship. He threw this scenario at me and I told him no. He asked me why. We sort of got into an argument and gave up on one another. I guess he did what a lot of Doms said you'd do: re-evaluate the relationship and probably leave. I presented it as something real on this thread so it would be taken somewhat seriously. And that a 'friend' went through it (convincing, huh?). I felt like if I told you all that this was only a conversation, I'd get a whole bunch of "Oh that's not real though. You need to wait until you're in a real relationship. Then you'll see how it really is and this situation will be a non-issue." Actually, I’m glad this was a conversation! That’s how you find out if you are compatible. That’s how you discover what is expected. The right time to decide if you can submit to a specific dominant is after many such discussions.

rednicky -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 6:21:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: catize quote: ORIGINAL: rednicky Missturbation, I said earlier that the situation itself was hypothetical. I was faced with a similar situation with a potential Dom. We were throwing ideas at each other about how it'd be if we were in a relationship. He threw this scenario at me and I told him no. He asked me why. We sort of got into an argument and gave up on one another. I guess he did what a lot of Doms said you'd do: re-evaluate the relationship and probably leave. I presented it as something real on this thread so it would be taken somewhat seriously. And that a 'friend' went through it (convincing, huh?). I felt like if I told you all that this was only a conversation, I'd get a whole bunch of "Oh that's not real though. You need to wait until you're in a real relationship. Then you'll see how it really is and this situation will be a non-issue." Actually, I’m glad this was a conversation! That’s how you find out if you are compatible. That’s how you discover what is expected. The right time to decide if you can submit to a specific dominant is after many such discussions. Well it's not good because I've been at this for sooooooo long. I've been looking and looking. I've come close and then something like this ruins it for me. I don't want to think it's me but...oh god I can't even think that it's me. I, just like everyone else, love myself. And think I'm great. To think that I'm in my own way of finding a relationship [:(]

janiebelle -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 6:32:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rednicky Well it's not good because I've been at this for sooooooo long. I've been looking and looking. I've come close and then something like this ruins it for me. I don't want to think it's me but...oh god I can't even think that it's me. I, just like everyone else, love myself. And think I'm great. To think that I'm in my own way of finding a relationship [:(] You just mentioned you were in school and your profile has you at 20 YO. Now you mention that you've been looking for sooooooooo long. Can you clear up what a long time is? How many Doms have you had RL interaction with to determine their suitability for a match? I'm beginning to think it's just a matter of the instant gratification expectation of America's youth that taints your search. j

leadership527 -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 6:32:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero Presumably because her emotional style does not match with common D/s methods. While trust is a primary issue that is to be determined in a D/s relationship, for many other relationships (and even a share od D/s relationships as well) the trust is one that takes a slow growth pattern. ANY trust that I have any faith in takes a slow growth pattern. Instant trust is worth about as much as the paper it's printed on. It looks all fine and flowery but it doesn't really carry the load when the difficult commands start coming -- or just the difficult moments.

BitaTruble -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 6:37:30 PM)
Nicky, I promise you that if you settle, you're first dom will not be your last dom. You'll get there and find the right one eventually, but that doesn't mean you can't have fun with numbers 2 - 5 or 10 or 100 in the meantime. Just be open and up front and it's all good.

DavanKael -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 6:37:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rednicky Okay Daven. I guess how I present myself in these forums is a little misleading. I'm about to bring race in things but it's nothing bad. I know how people here hate to talk about it. Even though I live around a lot of white people, I've never really been comfortable around them. It has nothing to do with who they are. It's just how they act. I'm not use to it. I tried to be but I just feel so left out. Even when they're being nice, I just can't mesh with them. So of course I'm not too chummy with them. So I suppose I come off as stern and anti-social to them. I hope they don't think I'm racist or anything but that's just how things are where I live and go to school. I'm really nice though. I'm judgmental online because I can get away with it. I'm a sweet as a button and extroverted in real life when I'm in a good environment and shy when I'm not. Sooo....I guess I'm like everyone else lol. Ummm...what else should I respond to? Hi, Nicky---- Davan is the female derivation of David and means 'beloved'; Daven-ing is an action taken during a particular style of prayer. Lots of people spell my name incorrectly. :> If race is of relevance, by all means, I think it's worth discussing. I'm Caucasian. I don't make any pretense of knowing what it is to be anything else. I have had the benefit of working in Baltimore City extensively which was culturally educational for me. You don't know how many files crossed my desk with a diagnosis of 'bipolar' and I found myself shaking my head after meeting with the black (My clients, by and large wished to be called black, not African American) female whose file I held thinking, "This lady isn't bipolar; some scared white therapist screwed up this diagnosis." I learned that urban black culture is very, very different than the suburban white culture that I live within. I'm not sure how many differences I would attribute to race so much as culture but hopefully what I've said helps you to understand that I have a little bit of an idea of what you speak. So, the white folks are dismaying to you. Okay, got it. How? How do they interact differently than you do? How do they seem really different than you are? I think you may be cue-ing in on some cultural differences. The person that you're potentially having a conversation with isn't he be-all-end-all representation of their culture. They're someone you have the opportunity to speak with. So, you've noticed the differences. What are some of the similarities? As an example, again, I'll go back to my work in Baltimore. A lot of the kids were highly skeptical of a white chick. I'd listen to them talk about interests and trace what they were saying to something that I knew about. An example: rap music. I may not know current rap (for the most part) but I sure can talk with kids about 'old school' rap and the progression of music, etc. Meeting a person where they are. It doesn't mean you have to start likin' white folks or that you'll be comfortable with what you perceive as white culture but I bet you'll view some people a bit more individually, as will they you. Another option is deciding that white people really are just not cool, you don't want to be around 'em, and living in an area where the majority of people are black (And of a cultural group with which you are comfortable). It's a potentially valid choice as well. We all choose where we live for various reasons. If I go to Columbia, I get really over-stimulated by the crush of so many different cultures with such predominance. I know that would not be an optimal place for me to spend my time, so I don't. At the baseline, though, as folks have pointed out to you, I think there are things more internal like not exactly being comfortable with yourself or knowing your place in the world and these people outside yourself are kind-of glaring indicators of "aaaaack, I'm uncomfortable"! And, see, by replying with your thoughts, we got to an important part of your context. If you just clam up, people don't know. If you just lash out emotionally, people don't care. When we speak in a genuine fashion, well, we can potentially come to understand each other. Davan

NihilusZero -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 6:59:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero Presumably because her emotional style does not match with common D/s methods. While trust is a primary issue that is to be determined in a D/s relationship, for many other relationships (and even a share od D/s relationships as well) the trust is one that takes a slow growth pattern. ANY trust that I have any faith in takes a slow growth pattern. Instant trust is worth about as much as the paper it's printed on. It looks all fine and flowery but it doesn't really carry the load when the difficult commands start coming -- or just the difficult moments. I understand what you're saying here. It's difficult for me to translate into my head because I habitually seem to be in fast-forward with relationships. Then again, some people can take 5 years to learn about someone what another person can learn in 5 days...it all depends on the type of person. So, trust can develop at different speeds also. I was more speaking about the reception of trustworthiness though. In the sense that some people (probably based on experiences in their lives) are prone to develop an unflinching trust at a much slower gait than someone else irrelevant of what the trustee does and/or how long s/he does it for.

rednicky -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 7:14:36 PM)
Well Daven, I don't dislike white people. I actually see them as super nice. I know it's silly but, around me, they'll start conversations with complete strangers in elevators and a week later have a new best friend. That's very uncommon among the black people I know. It's nice to see but I guess I'm inherently defensive when I'm around others. A lot o black people I know are. especially around others outside of the race. Why? I'm not sure. I've tried talking in elevators after witnessing others do it. Things never went beyond the doors as far as friendship goes. I had a white roommate and she was friends with everyone in my hallway (all white) so there were people over a lot. I could never be friends with them. I tried...but I'm not into talking about what they talked about (mostly boys). Only because it's petty. Life is more about boys and being skinny so that you look good for boys and tanning so you look hot for boys and flirting with this cute boy and blah blah blah. What I'm about to say is NOT meant to be rude at all. It's just what I've heard and seen. Usually my roommates and their friends talked like: And he was like "oh my God you are just seriously acting like a bitch right now" and I was "whateverrrr. You're just like being so immature right now. I just don't even want to talk to you." So I just like hung up on him and he called me like twice. I answered and he like apologized and we made up so me and Brandon are like going out now." "Wow Lisa (that was her name) that is sooo sweet. OMG (yes omg, not oh my god). I wish Tommy and I had that kind of relationships. Hey do you feel like going to the deli?" "Yeah I need to only like eat salad today, cause my thighs are like soooo fat right now." It sounds stereotypical but that's how it pretty much went. Real names. real dialog. Though his name might not have been Tommy. And they cried about EVERYTHING. If a girls' boyfriend did not return a call, she cried. If they got into a face to face argument with a guy about how he gave Lisa a hug two days ago but not her, she cried. Always crying. ALWAYS AT 2 AM!! And I just can't listen to that. I just can't. I heard the word "like" more than I wanted to. It was crazy. They talk about being fat a lot. I don't want to hear it. I suppose it was because we have different body types. I am less concerned because I have hips. These girls kind of didn't (not to say all white people don't or anything). And they were a little bit back stabby. Now that's with any group of girls but as soon as '1' of those girls left the room, the others would start talking about the one that was gone. Ugh. I can't be friends with that. Unfortunately, these were the 'cool' people. Everyone else I've ever met that was white who didn't act like this were usually losers. They watched a LOT of anime and had no sense of style. I would like to make friends who are in between. Not so obsessed with boys, sex, smoking, and body image but, at the same time, have a relationship with God, and a sense of style and is socially up to date on music and hot topics. I do have friends like this. They are black. I've never met a white person with these features. Why? I'm not sure. oh, btw, I live in the part of Baltimore that is dominantly white. Anyways, I made an effort but I just couldn't really hold a white friend. And that sucks because I'm attracted to white men and the best way to a white man is through his white friends lol (unless I'm lucky). Anyways, I haven't been fortunate enough to actually try and date a white guy because I haven't gotten close enough to one. Those who I do come into contact with are obsessed with black women and try and do this 'gangsta' look thinking that we care about that kind of stuff. It turns me off more.

DavanKael -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 7:33:44 PM)
Hi, Nicky---- Davan, please. Thank you. I think what you're saying is that most of the white people you've been around are superficial and phony. The 'valley girl' thing had me giggling and the obsessions you noted seem rather familiar, lol. As for the notation of someone saying 'omg' rather than 'oh, my god', well, I think I'd probably want to throw them out a window! I'm a white person, have you noticed my interaction with you to be sappy sweet and fake? The way that I write is pretty darn close to the way that I speak in person. Again, some things coming into conflict in that the white folks you met who aren't fake and annoying are 'losers'. By the 'cool kids' standards? If so, so what? If you like the person, who cares if they're 'losers' to those people you revile? If you don't 'fit in' anyway, why not be comfortable with who you're spending time with? I thought you articulated well toward the end of that paragraph things you would like in some people to hang out with. Also, you may want to check out a slightly higher age group. As for white guys, I'm going to give you the advice of a good friend who hopefully will have a good laugh if he reads this: you need to put yourself in situations where you're meeting the kind and quality of people that you want. 'Course, a part of that is being comfortable enough in your own skin and your own skull to go there and to be the real you so that a real guy can have the opportunity to get to know you. Like the social I mentioned: folks who are into bdsm and/or power dynamics who are in an age demographic that is relatively close to yours. I guess it boils down to what you noted you were doing earlier: stop being self-defeating. I think that you're being your own worst enemy. Davan

littlewonder -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 8:03:29 PM)
You're young yet...only 20. Relax, date, have fun and don't worry so much. You have your entire life ahead of you. Just concentrate on college, getting your degree and a good job and you'll do just fine in life. Don't be so concerned with finding a man right now. I'm not saying give up...keep your eyes and heart open to whatever or whoever may come along, don't quit but don't jump into anything, don't think you HAVE to have a man in your life. Your age is for experiencing, learning about life and learning from it and your mistakes.

rednicky -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 8:15:19 PM)
Omg I'm sorry I didn't realize I was spelling your name wrong. DavAn. The reason I don't care for the 'losers' I described is because they seen somewhat obsessive, just like the valley girls. The girls were obsessed with boys and looking good for them. the losers are obsessed with games, and anime. I suppose my friends are a good median, not devoting that much time to things that don't matter that much. There is nothing wrong with anime. I saw "Howl's Moving Castle" and "Sprited away". I LOVE those movies. But I don't have a closet full of DVD box sets of non-stop anime. Cosplay? No thanks. You'll buy a 200 dollar costume but still wear socks and sandles with a hole in your jeans. Ugh. I also have an xbox 360 with 1 game: grand theft auto 4. Love the game. play it every now and then. I don't save up to buy a special chair to play it in where the chair vibrates every time I get hit. I even play world of warcraft. How many people know that? Well Davan, you're one. I don't have shirts saying "My warlock is better than yours." These people's priorities seem out of whack. Spending time and effort of frivolous things. Both the losers and the vallies: They all seem like idiots. Online Davan, I don't really associate color with screen names. It doesn't matter to me (just like it doesn't matter in real life). But most of the people here are older so they've grown out of that way of behaving. They all seems to have all of the answers and now 'I'M' the immature one. I actually feel okay with that. I like the idea of looking up to others like I look up to most of the people here. I just wish that they all went to my school lol. The reason I am deathly afraid of munches is because I had a group assignment with this guy and we had to film a few things in Feddrick. Oh my gosh, I felt so alone. The people were so nice but it seemed like a closed community. Like, if you weren't born there, you were an outsider. They'd say hi to you but then they'd sort of walk away and get cliquey afterward. Plus they smoked. I hate cigarette smoke but I didn't want to get up and move because I didn't want them to know I was disgusted by their bad habit (it's kind of rude). what if I went to this bar and the same thing happened? What if everyone there is white and a little cliquey? What if they smoke? Worst of all, what if they are weird? I went to an anime meeting once after watching spirited away (I liked it that much) and those people were SCARY crazy about anime. What if these people are scary crazy about bdsm? I don't want to sit in the corner and watch everyone else have fun. I thought about going with someone else so that I wouldn't be alone (the guy I had the argument with) but I don't want to hang on him all night because I can't make my own friends. I guess I am self-defeating. But I'm too nervous to try.

RedMagic1 -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 8:29:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rednicky I haven't been fortunate enough to actually try and date a white guy because I haven't gotten close enough to one. Those who I do come into contact with are obsessed with black women and try and do this 'gangsta' look thinking that we care about that kind of stuff. It turns me off more. This is a very common problem in both nilla and BDSM. That "Black Mistress" thread you and I were talking on is a perfect example. Just as some men can't see past a woman's chest, some men can't see past a woman's skin. Usually, those men have no idea what "being black" is like -- and, news flash, it's superdifferent for different people -- so they treat you like a stereotype, because that's all they know. My suggestion is this: go on some dates, knowing full well some of the dates are likely to suck. Until you break the barrier of doing nothing because you're nervous, you'll be trapped in your own fear. Please understand, I'm not saying you should put yourself in danger. I'm saying: GO HAVE COFFEE! Have coffee with one man a week. Thirty minutes, public place. Do that a few times, and a lot of the stuff that is whirling in your head right now will feel much calmer.

SailingBum -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 8:43:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly quote: What part of me Da Boss Man dont you understand??? Da cmere holly you sooo need a good ass whupping Lustfully Motown BadOne

DavanKael -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 8:46:32 PM)
Thanks. :> People do that a lot. You're objecting to people being extreme in their interests and living upto stereotypes. I can understanding not wanting to immerse one's self in particular things as much as some others do. Your secret about World of Warcraft is safe with me (And the hundreds of other folks that peruse this thread). You're better than most at articulating your conflicting desires. What I think you need to do, though, is to figure out a way to groove with them. It may be an age thing (And, I hated when people told me that...now, I'm sort of nostalgic for it, though). Self-knowledge, self-acceptance...as new agey as it may sound, I think you're pushing people away 'cause you're not solid and consistent in self. If color and age don't matter on-lline, stop allowing them to do so so much in-person. Frederick is a pretty closed community in some ways. Certainly not the most racially friendly place potentially. I can understand why you may have felt ill at ease there. It's not a munch at Shucker's, it's more of a happy hour sort of thing. People hang out and play pool and stuff. I've only been once (I think). For me, the priorities were a little different than mine (A lot of emphasis on casual play) and the age range wasn't what I am looking for relationally (A lot of 20-something folks) but people were friendly and welcoming. Was it cliquey? A little bit but there were people who made an effort to go around to various groupings of people and talk. I didn't notice anyone to be scary crazy about bdsm. I didn't like everyone I met, I didn't dislike everyone I met. As for weird, eh, I'm weird, so that's wholly relative. Oh, in terms of race, I recall 2 black people (One male, one female and no, they weren't a couple) as a part of the group which was, I'd guess, at most 15-ish people, so if you're getting into national averages, that's a greater percentage of black people at the meeting than the national average in general. So, that also means that there were plenty of white males that could be of relational interest to you. And, no, it wasn't all guys; a fair mix of guys and girls. Not everyone was 'taken'. Not everyone seemed to have the same priorities. Calm down, figure out how you're getting there and home, give it a whirl: I mean, barring something totally unforseen, the worst you can anticipate is spending a couple of hours and really hating it. At best, you meet someone fantastic and you live happily ever after. Most likely, you'll go and see that it's not so bad, talk with a few people, go home. And, you'll have tackled some of that anxiety. You certainly can take the approach of sabotaging everything form the outset: social interactions, relationships, etc. but it's going to get pretty lonely and you seem to want to reach out. You certainly do so here. Davan

SailingBum -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 8:51:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rednicky Interesting. Even though your posts drove me crazy sailing, one thing did make sense. I can't quote exactly but you said something like "Don't you think he goes out o his way at time when he doesn't feel like it to provide for her?" How true. I guess the woman in question in the post wasn't looking from the other side of the fence. And now she feels quite silly I'm sure. Cool it's good to know I have that effect on ppl. It's no different than a dom saying I don't feel domly today... so Im gonna whine like a 2 year old until I get my way. BadOne

rednicky -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 9:01:28 PM)
Yea it 'is' lonely. That's why I've resorted to online dating. When I first got into college I would never give online dating a thought. I'd say "hmmph that's for lonely ugly people." But I got sick of not cliguing with anyone in real life (except for black people, which are in the minority here obviously). I grew up in a sheltered, black, upper middle class area so I haven't had much experience deal with people I didn't grow up with. Now that I'm facing it...I'm scared. Online is easy. I guess I know what to do. Just afraid to do it.

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