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BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/3/2009 12:11:48 PM

pinnipedster

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I have to admit it. When people get serious about BDSM being some kind of philosophy or spiritual path, I am a little baffled, and frankly somewhat put off.

I'm not trying to say it isn't real for them, but I just don't see it that way. I don't mean the power exchange in a relationship can't be real; I don't even mean that I think there are relationships that work best where one partner is clearly in charge. I myself have found myself very comfortable in the role of "respected subordinate" -- someone who is listened to, and whose work is appreciated, but who accepts that someone else makes the final decisions.

I certainly am not into the notion of Female Supremacy, or Male Supremacy, or Anything-Else-Supremacy. I think if anyone is "naturally" dominant or submissive, it's purely an individual thing. I think there really are some people who are happy as switches, but others who are not. (I was just chatting elsewhere with someone who said that all female Dominants had a sub lurking inside, which I am sure many dominant women here will dispute.) I think it's all a matter of taste. And for me, surrendering my freedom of choice really is an erotic game, even though many moment of it may not be erotic -- I've scrubbed floors under orders, and it's not like that in itself gets me hot, but the fact that I'm being told to do it does, at least to a point.

I'm just curious how different people will react. I don't think my answer has to work for you. I just see BDSM as something very different from, say, my political or ethical philosophy. (I might surrender 24/7 to someone in terms of running my personal life, but one of the conditions would be that that person could NOT tell me how to vote....) How does it work for you?

Post #: 1

RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/3/2009 12:40:21 PM

colouredin

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Hmm see I find it funny that on one hand you are saying that people do not have to agree yet have written a monologue about what you think is right. Seems strange to me, the only response can be, each to their own.

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RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/3/2009 12:53:14 PM

NihilusZero

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quote:

BDSM: fun, or philosophy?

Ideally?

C) All of the above.

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

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CM Sex God du Jour
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RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/3/2009 12:54:31 PM

agirl

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Put frankly, it's just way of having a relationship that I can relate to and find works well for me. ........ with someone SPECIFIC. He's good at the job and it suits him, too. That's all that matters when it comes down to it. Surrendering my *freedom of choice* isn't an erotic game, no. It's the WAY we relate to each other in all ways. There IS no other way for us to be.

It's not a philosophy OR *fun* (erotic games) or any kind of spiritual path, as you put it, for me. All the bdsm stuff we do are experiences....we do loads of things that are just as much fun and give us just as much pleasure.

As for the *vote* thing....He's not remotely interested in how I vote and I'd be surprised that he would know, even after knowing me for a decade. We have too many important things to spend our time and energy on.

agirl

(in reply to pinnipedster)

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RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/3/2009 12:57:29 PM

Apocalypso

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pinnipedster
I think it's all a matter of taste.

Haven't you answered your own question then?

quote:

And for me, surrendering my freedom of choice really is an erotic game

In which case, you've staked out a position about what your theoretical approach to BDSM is. Which is fine, but it's still absolutely a value judgement.

quote:

How does it work for you?

My philosophical outlook informs my approach to BDSM rather than vice versa.

_____________________________

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Don't keep calling it the "Book of Revelations",
There's no "s", it's the Book of Revelation,
As revealed to Saint John the Divine.

(in reply to pinnipedster)

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RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/3/2009 1:15:38 PM

leadership527

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@AGirl
^^^ what she said... again...

For Carol and I, it's just how we seem to be fitting with each other this week. It isn't the quest for god, nor is it particularly "fun". Insofar as things like "voting" or insert hot button du-jour here, in my experience, these things are much bigger problems in theory than in practice. In our case, I told Carol, "Look... you're sure? It really bugs you that I'm in control of your vote?" It did so I said, "OK, let's suppose I said you can vote however you want... go fill out the form." It didn't take her long to figure out the first thing she wanted to do is ask my opinion on how she should vote *laughs*.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to agirl)

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RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/3/2009 1:24:53 PM

DavanKael

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I can only speak for myself and my interest in D/s (and some bdsm) has very much to do with philosophy (Along with which I would include spirituality) as well as fun. Because something is depthful to someone does not inherently render it un-fun.
Anything that is part of my nature, which, arguably and decisively, these things are, is of interest to me (Self-knowledge and all of that good stuff as well as cognizance of how I relate to and within the world and with others) and I find that it all flows together.
Davan

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-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

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Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
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RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/3/2009 2:07:27 PM

Viridana

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I'm all for the fun part in BDSM. I have never thought of it or experienced it as something "spiritual" nor as a philosophy or ideology (albeit it can be fun to debate certain aspects). That point of view seems to bother a few people of "more spiritual BDSM intensity" that I've met along the way. To them I'm merely a kinkster (with the empasis on merely, and like being a kinkster is somehow inferior to their ultra spiritual m/s relationship) and they go out of their way of making said views clear to me. But I don't know, most of the time it doesn't bother me, I'm too busy having spankalicious fun!

(in reply to DavanKael)

Post #: 8

RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/3/2009 2:54:57 PM

BitaTruble

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pinnipedster

I have to admit it. When people get serious about BDSM being some kind of philosophy or spiritual path, I am a little baffled, and frankly somewhat put off.

Well, there's a conversation killer. I pretty much feel exactly the opposite as you which just goes to prove the point that opposites do not always attract.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to pinnipedster)

Post #: 9

RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/3/2009 3:20:04 PM

SailingBum

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From: Sailin the stormy sea
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pinnipedster

I have to admit it. When people get serious about BDSM being some kind of philosophy or spiritual path, I am a little baffled, and frankly somewhat put off.

Ive never heard that before ....if someone said that to me ... I ask them if there off their meds. That's just plain nutz. How in the world can Bondage be a freaking path to anything??? cept maybe a knot tying class

BadOne

< Message edited by SailingBum -- 6/3/2009 3:21:45 PM >

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RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/3/2009 4:00:34 PM

Joseff

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For me its not about philosophy or spirituality, its about personality. This is who I am. Of course its fun, most of it. Some aspects are just dull. Its not just about the fun for me, its just being me. So I guess I choose option D. other

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RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/3/2009 4:09:13 PM

oceanwinds

Posts: 530
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For me it is philosophy and spirituality.Now i ask why would you think fun would be excluded from a spiritual path?

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RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/3/2009 4:29:55 PM

catize

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I don’t believe fun and philosophy are mutually exclusive.

This is how it works for me:

The men I have a D/s relationship with share a similar philosophy to mine about “what it all means”.

This, in turn, leads to a lot of fun. More importantly, it creates a rapport that keeps us together day to day, even during the not-so-fun times.

Life in general is doing what needs to be done; amusement adds to my quality of life but I don’t “have” to have fun ALL the time. But I do need to be content with the way things are. If we had major philosophical differences we would not be together very long. Where’s the fun in that?

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(in reply to pinnipedster)

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RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/3/2009 4:47:33 PM

DesFIP

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It's not spiritual for me. It's physical and psychological. I feel safe if someone else is making the hard decisions. But although I see parallels to religion in certain aspects, it doesn't fill that space for me.

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RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/3/2009 5:09:33 PM

janiebelle

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Joined: 4/29/2009
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If I thought my vote meant anything, I might be concerned.
But frankly, my vote, whether it be "fish or chicken" or "prop 8 yes or no" is just fine in the hands of a man I have entrusted my heart to.
j

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 15

RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/3/2009 6:33:20 PM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

It's not spiritual for me. It's physical and psychological. I feel safe if someone else is making the hard decisions. But although I see parallels to religion in certain aspects, it doesn't fill that space for me.

That about covers it for me, as well.

However - big "however":

Those who are into D/s are pioneering their own sorts of partnerships. People aren't used to being pioneers anymore. They don't like it. They have a fear of freedom - so they search for The Lore so that they can feel intellectually comfy again. Unfortunately, there are an awful lot of people around who, for whatever reason, think that they're qualified to provide this so-called Lore. They can't. All they can do is dry up D/s for everyone - most probably including themselves, too.

It's ironic. The more I pare away the quasi-religious, or -ideological stuff from D/s and the more I get to the erotic and fun core of it all, the more profound a thing it can become for me, too. Gawd, I had enough pisspoor ideologies of all sorts at college - I don't want any more of them wet-blanketing my spirit now.

I say: No platform for windbags!

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RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/3/2009 6:56:20 PM

BKSir

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From: Salt Lake City, UT
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I wouldn't go so far as to say "philosophy" for me, but, wouldn't say just for fun either. More of a psychological and emotional need met symbiotically by myself and my pet together. I have the need to control and he has the need to be controlled. It's just something that is... But, philosophical or spiritual? Nah.

For some people, sure, why not... If it's what they're comfortable with, if it's a path they wish to follow in that way, who the hell am I to say they can't?

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I am the voices in your head.

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RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/3/2009 7:17:38 PM

NihilusZero

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From: Nashville, TN
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Just to clarify, by "philosophy" I mean a method by which to engage in a relationship. As in, it's a description of dynamics and styles. And I'm sure those who know me are already aware that the "spirituality" parts is irrelevant to me.

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to BKSir)

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RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/3/2009 10:09:37 PM

DavanKael

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Aaw, hell, I'm in an odd mood tonight, I'll take a stab at explaining my take on the spiritual side of sexuality (Which, for me, includes D/s and power dynamics). :>
As long as I can remember, I've rather regarded men and women being together as 'the pinnacle' and despite being raised in a female-dominated household, I can't remember a time when I didn't think a husband was supposed to be in charge.
Sometime around age 10, I watched "The Thorn Birds" and it left quite an impression. Not only do I have a thing for priests (Okay, only hot ones, lol!) but the whole Father Ralph choosing between Meggie and god thing didn't make sense to me: I remember thinking, Of course he should be with Meggie, that's what's meant to happen. That is what god intends; god wants men and women who love each other to be together. I was Christian at that time, so that worked tidily.
Well, as time wore on, I left the whole Christianity thing behind and I don't believe in any sort of interventionist god(s). For the better portion of 20 years, I've identified as agnostic (And generally an atheistically-leaning one), so when I speak of spirituality, I am not talking about religion but rather those things in human experience that elevate us beyond the everyday.
I believe union (For me, most naturally and depthfully, male and female, always with a sense of power dynamics because I believe these to be omnipresent in every interrelation, and sexually) is potentially the greatest path to elevation. Or perhaps better said: it is my sense and my experience that nothing makes me feel that I am and that my Other is able to transcend the bounds of our flesh, while most truly residing in that flesh, as in those moments. It's not a perception (That transcendence) that I have had with every partner nor is it something that I've had every time. My idea about what sex should be is a constant but it truly depends on the amalgamation of energies if it 'gets there'. When I speak of 'there', I'm talking about a sense of true merger, blending, while also being freed. There has been mention of fun. This is better than fun; it's freakin' rapture; it's bright and shining joy! I could probably articulate it better in something more long and flowery but sufficed to say, there's nothin' better and no, I'm not just talking about getting off. :> Having that inherent sense of knowing my whole life then feeling that sort of mind-ripping, glowing power and rush, I can't say the hunger ever truly abates when it is absent. Power dynamics are a definite part.
Now, the rational side of me tells me that there are all sorts of reasons for my conceptions and all sorts of logical and biological explanations for the things that I feel. Okay, true, I acknowledge that. It's just such an intrinsic path that it feels different than anything else in my experience.
Davan

_____________________________

May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

170NZ (Aka:Sex God Du Jour) pts

Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
-Leadership527,Jeff

(in reply to NihilusZero)

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RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/3/2009 11:30:23 PM

GYPZYQUEEN

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pinnipedster

I have to admit it. When people get serious about BDSM being some kind of philosophy or spiritual path, I am a little baffled, and frankly somewhat put off.

First...I think it is great that you know you are baffled and put off..and that you posted..

It means you want to hear and think..and are curious..
and it give us a chance to spiel..

PPL experience spirituality in many ways and all of them are valid..
ANY PATH walked with good intent can lead to enlightenment.

I believe BDSM is a spiritual path or adds to my spiritual journey..for me..and can only speak for me and the sub males I have had the privaledge of having along for the journey thus far..

YOUR spirituality is your SPIRIT..that which animates your soul..through the depth and quality of human experience.

It is a sense of a reality larger than one's self..a connectedness..
IT is a development of one's inner life..
IT is an energy-information field( much like quantum physics)

Sex is spiritual..not mutually exclusive as our culture has insisted on...for it own reasons

AN orgasm is a spiritual experience..it magnifies the spirit.

BDSM can be PATH to healing,growth and change of spirit..undertaken to question IDIVIDUAL and social programming..empower..explore self..
...
I grasped my sexuality in the BDSM worl( as predator and prey)d and healed from sex negative culture and proceeded to further self examination and to celebration of self and others

If we accepted sexuality and that deemed "unusual" in practice..
.....then we would undoubtedly see the ENERGY FLOW ( spirit)that it is and that it flows thru all things all of the time

Further..there is personal and universal awareness of spirit and this we can explore
in BDSM archetypes within..parts of self..the Master..slave..villain..rescuers..innocents..

We can go deeper and bring things to light...examine and learn...reclaim even..that which was severed...or enhance
strengths and gifts...

When we add RITUAL...we can travel deeper yet..into the unconscious..wheather sub space ..dom space..or more.
.........RIDE together much like a shamanic journey..

I have designed scenes and sessions as a quest for others who sought an answer..a vision or were"baffled" about something..

If the subs psyche is opened up..you can POUR yourself into him and he into you..when you open the energy the energies travel back and forth..answers come...
or we just cum....:)

AS the D rides the sub's energies ,,spinning away and out..we learn more about our own potent powers and they thier's

We are all manifestation of the same energy and thus can transform..trancend,,,,,,make it real by
our fantasies in BDSM or living the lifestyle..through symbolic acts.. or through daily PE...

Our bodies live it..the endorphines..the erotic..and the consicious bring this LIFE energy to the material world from the spirit...

There is the physical focus...and it links mind and soul in different stages of awareness or glimpses

GQ
acknowledgments to:
*The New Topping BOOK..EASTON
*Prairie Priestess Magazine ( AB CA)
* Tantra.com

< Message edited by GYPZYQUEEN -- 6/3/2009 11:41:23 PM >

(in reply to pinnipedster)

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