Fear and loathing.

Fear and loathing. (Full Version)

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Starbuck09 -> Fear and loathing. (6/7/2009 11:32:02 PM)
Okay just to begin with i'd like to point out that my experience with certain nomenclature and concepts with regards to bdsm is limited and if I say something that is offensive or comes across as ridiculous or ignorant then I apologise unreservedley it is certainly not intentional and I would appreiate if it was pointed out to me. Now that's over... Sex is very important to me and something I enjoy alot whether vanilla or otherwise, but much of my enjoyment comes from the knowledge that my partner is enjoying the experience equally [or at least something approaching that I won't give myself too much credit!] With that in mind I worry that in a relationship with a mistress, whether professional or otherwise, that despite the fact that I would be acting out a fantasy I would be left cold as the person I was sharing that fantasy with was either not enjoying it [or at least not enjoying me but the act itself] or viewed me as beneath them. It's something I have a real problem with as my guilt, that a dominant partner would rather not be doing what they are and would prefer me to be dominant [or at least play a traditional role] or are enjoying it only as they enjoy inflicting a degree of suffering on someone they see as worthy of contempt, makes it difficut for me to ask a mistress to play in this way as I feel it places an unfair burden on them. I'm going to Sandhurst in September and before I go I would like the chance to seriously explore my masochistic side but this is holding me back, I have considered visiting a professional dominatrix but again the knowledge that they were doing a job that afforded them little or no enjoyment would ruin the experience for me. I'd love to hear your views, just remember that if i have been in anyway disrespectful it isn't intentional it just comes from my own ignorance.

MaamJay -> RE: Fear and loathing. (6/8/2009 1:47:43 AM)
I think this just prompts you to be ultimately looking for a romantic D/s relationship and plenty of them exist. Dominants may have a number of different mindsets about inflicting pain, only for some is it a humiliation thing or from an emotional distance. For eg, I love to see the willing submission in a boy's eyes, his passion for Me as his motivation to receive what I want to give him, and I also inflict pain to send him into that beautiful land of subspace. And I adore the connection that brings. I am a very loving sort of Dominant, I do not want to be the cruel ice queen type at all and get frustrated with all the boys that seem to want that! If you choose to see a pro-Domme, She will likely ask you beforehand about what you are seeking, be sure to be honest with Her about what you want, or it's likely She'll default to the "cold bitch" game as that seems to be so popular! Maam Jay aka violet[A]

Starbuck09 -> RE: Fear and loathing. (6/8/2009 2:20:55 AM)
Thanks for replying MaamJay, I understand what you are saying and agree to a large extent. However i've been in relationships with dominant women before but I find [and I fully accept that this could be nonsense] myself feeling that often what these women want is a break from a submissive partner and instead actually want to be taken in hand so to speak. I don't mind doing this, during vanilla sexual sessions I am usually dominant anyway but I would like sometimes to be able to be fully submissive without feeling like it is something of a burden to my partner to act this out. You're right about a romantic relationship soothing my worries with regards to feeling unappreciated but it would be nice to have casual kink relationships the same as I enjoy casual vanilla flings. I think you being a loving dominant is great and a undernourished side to bdsm but I have no problem with being humiliated e.t.c. provided I understand that the person doing so does not actually think of me as beneath them.

MarcEsadrian -> RE: Fear and loathing. (6/8/2009 8:19:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Starbuck09 "...makes it difficult for me to ask a mistress to play in this way as I feel it places an unfair burden on them." My advice is to focus on what actually pleases the alpha female of your dreams, once (and if) you ever truly find her and develop a relationship with her. Her happiness is the best gauge of authenticity in the things she does. Pay attention more to that than passively quantifying and "managing" her pleasure—or yours—sexual and otherwise. In short, be authentic with your submission in mind and body. It may be fair to say that many of the dominant women you've come to know who seem put off by submissive men are not so due to the fact the men are submissive; it is in fact often the lack of authentic submission in men that vexes them. When that has been realized, pigs get what pigs deserve becomes the impetus. This should never be confused with "all dominant women secretly crave to be relieved of the burden of their authority". While it can be true in some scenarios, it's a dangerous hypothesis to even partially run on. All that said, choose wisely and be up front about your motives and desires foremost.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Fear and loathing. (6/8/2009 9:47:41 AM)
I am a dominant woman. I am a sexual masochist. Now, that doesn't mean that I need to come away with bruises 100% of the time, but I know what I like. That does not lessen my authority, or "relieve" me of any kind of burden. Be honest about what you are looking for, and if it seems that you are not going to get it from Ms X, move on to Ms Y!

Starbuck09 -> RE: Fear and loathing. (6/8/2009 10:00:36 AM)
Marc thanks for replying, your post actually embraces the crux of my problem. ''pigs get what pigs deserve...'' I have no problem with such a mantra on the provision that it is understood that I am not actually a pig, that I am in fact an equal who is simply in a different role. When, for example, I am having sex with a woman in a vanilla relationship, quite often she will enjoy being called a whore, slut e.t.c. e.t.c. ad nauseum but if for one moment she believed that that was how I truly saw her then I would get a well deserved slap. I'm new on this site [as of today in fact] but already looking around the site it does seem that my own ideas of submission and dominance are not borne out by oters Marc, it appears [and if I am wrong then I apologise] that there is quite alot of thinking that enforces the viewpoint that the submissive is actually inferior to their partner. I completely understand the need for some [or possibly most] submissives to feel as if they are genuinely beneath the object of their desires but I don't in fact a woman who thought I was actually disgusting would deeply hurt me. That does not mean, in my opinion, when engaged in a scene that I am not capable of being totally submissive, it is just that I have a healthy [or at least I like to think of it as healthy!] respect for myself and the person I am, I think i'm nice, kind, intelligent, compassionate and so forth.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Fear and loathing. (6/8/2009 10:05:56 AM)
A great deal of what you will see in profiles (in my opinion, of course! [;)]) is reinforcing stereotypes. Many men complain about the fakes and wack profiles, and they are absolutely right! I know a lot of dominant women. None of them treats their slaves, submissives, whatever, as lesser beings. Who would want to own a worthless thing? Humiliation play might amuse some folks, but but when the toybag is packed away, we are proud of who we are with.

Starbuck09 -> RE: Fear and loathing. (6/8/2009 10:18:50 AM)
Fair enough Lady and cheers for that I suspect it is entirely possible that my impression of the site and it's ethos has been coloured a little by fake profiles. Also i'm sorry if I suggested that your dominance was a burden, I understand that that particular hang up appears peculiar to me.

Lockit -> RE: Fear and loathing. (6/8/2009 10:24:30 AM)
I can see where some of your belief's come from and don't know where other's come from. I have talked to someone just a couple days ago that seemed to have some similar idea's as you do. One... that dominant women don't enjoy what they are doing and some believe that they do it only to get a man. Two... that if they do enjoy what they are doing, they humiliate, don't care for the submissive and abuse the person. Three... that dominant women want a man to overtake them and dominante them. He felt as you do. Hell, if I believed that, I would feel that way too! First of all we are all different. There are a lot of images and thoughts that get stuck in our heads because of how many present themselves. (We have our thoughts that get stuck too... like with silly men who just want to play us and use us.) There are women out there doing this to get a man. There are women out there that hate men and really only wish to rip them apart... in some way. There are women who seem to only be sadistic, but who may be sadistic but are also loving. There are some who aren't sadistic. There are all kinds of people, period. Most the dominant's that I know and respect, love and they love big! They love what they do and they love who they do it with. Or they will be top to a bottom in a play situation, but they are still enjoying what they do. It isn't done only to please the man. Many men... especially certain dominant men, tend to believe that deep down every dominant woman just needs to find the right man to dominate them and that is really what their goal is. That no person could respect a submissive man and dominant women don't respect them and are only waiting till that one, special dominant man can trip their trigger. Don't stick to these belief's because they are not true! We wouldn't do what we don't want to do and we won't do it with someone we don't want to do. And most of us do not bottom and are not seeking that ever powerful one to 'take' us. Many of us are loving, kind and respect our submissive's! I would encourage you to get to know some of the dominant's on the message boards, as we are typically not playing a game and you can see the real deal.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Fear and loathing. (6/8/2009 10:24:45 AM)
No worries. [;)] You've heard that line about lesbians not having met the right man yet? Same story with female dominants wishing for their chance to submit, just another way of promoting the female-as-inferior stereotype. There's a similar one about male subs all being high powered types in their vanilla lives, which is utter rubbish. People are what they are---which is why it's so hard to find compatible ones, I imagine!

Starbuck09 -> RE: Fear and loathing. (6/8/2009 10:45:52 AM)
Lockit thanks for the reply, I think my problem with truly believing that a woman enjoys being a dominant is in all likelihood nothing more than a psychological kink that I am going to have to iron out one way or another. Having said that though I have seen a fair bit here and elsewhere about topping from the bottom and I think it is this idea that feeds my worry. In these situations it seems that the submissive is actually getting the dominat to do things she doesn't want to for their own gratification and I would loathe to be in such a situation. It also seems [and as my experience in this particular field is nil I am aware that I am probably woefully misguided] that women in 24/7 dominant/submissive relationship must get quite bored in a way it would be a vanilla lifestyle. When I have vanilla relationships if I was to engage in nothing more than the missionary position with my partner it would be nice but not amazing it's much better to try lots of different things. Likewise in a kink relationship, personally, i think every now and then just some vanilla love making would be great but it would seem that many [and possibly my opinion has been shaped by unrealistic profiles] would see that as a breach of kink etiquette. It's good to hear from people who don't see submission as making a peron inherently inferior though cheers Lockit.

Starbuck09 -> RE: Fear and loathing. (6/8/2009 10:49:38 AM)
That's a very good point in your last post Lady it seems that alot of my fears a nothing more than my own ridiculous foibles with regards to gender, the pitfalls of a private education!

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Fear and loathing. (6/8/2009 10:51:57 AM)
I don't know how true this is, but I get the impression that women are a lot more oppressed in the UK, and that the social environment is a lot tougher for them, not unlike it was here in the 70's. Stereotypes are as hard to eradicate as cockroaches! Unfortunately, stereotypes are also great fun to play with...

Lockit -> RE: Fear and loathing. (6/8/2009 10:53:58 AM)
Starbuck, you are projecting a lot here. I would encourage you to stop thinking so much. Stop trying to figure it out because your misconceptions are misguiding you and are closing your mind to what it really is for many of us. You need to get to know some of us... That is the only way to lose some of the misconceptions. I love vanilla sex... I love kinky sex... I love painful play... I am many things... not just a couple things. I also love hanging out and just being.. but I am always dominant. Not always kinky dominant... but always who I am and dominant is one of those things.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Fear and loathing. (6/8/2009 10:58:30 AM)
Dang that Lockit, always reading my mind... [:D]

Starbuck09 -> RE: Fear and loathing. (6/8/2009 11:00:19 AM)
I don't think that's true Lady i've been to America a few times [obviously as it's so vast I don' t know all of it's cultural mores] but it seemed to me that women in America were not very different from English/British women. I didn't notice a marked increase in female empowerment, after all the memory of the suffragettes keeps most men in check!

Starbuck09 -> RE: Fear and loathing. (6/8/2009 11:04:31 AM)
Good Lockit i'm glad that it seems my worries were based on ignorance rather than reality. As for projection I don't thnk I am these are just my genuine worries about a situation that I am not very experienced with, and it did seem to me that at least some of my fears were confirmed when looking through the site i'm glad they appear to be unfounded though.

Lockit -> RE: Fear and loathing. (6/8/2009 11:11:06 AM)
Your worries are genuine... they are yours... but they need to be tempered. Don't be so harsh on yourself... but also... don't be so harsh on us! lol You are learning... it's all good.

Lockit -> RE: Fear and loathing. (6/8/2009 11:47:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus Dang that Lockit, always reading my mind... [:D] LOL... well, could you think that Lockit doesn't have a headache? Then I could get double messages that it really isn't there! It's just the life and times of a dominant in a place like this! And maybe a bit of the same frustration timing and levels! hehe Bright and early, I got the attitude (tude)... thus that one journal entry! I thought it was funny... don't know about anyone else... but things have gone a bit better since I said it... well except with one! lol

MarcEsadrian -> RE: Fear and loathing. (6/8/2009 11:57:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Starbuck09 Marc thanks for replying, your post actually embraces the crux of my problem. ''pigs get what pigs deserve...'' I have no problem with such a mantra on the provision that it is understood that I am not actually a pig, that I am in fact an equal who is simply in a different role. It's obviously a matter of how compatible those ideas of yours are with the motives of each woman. This is why equal forthrightness from both parties is so very important, no matter how tired that advice gets. Many of the women I've known who identify as dominant are specific in seeking out servants or slaves, and traditional romance where the man is seen as "fully equal but in a different role" is either purposefully avoided or simply not the objective. At the same time, few women I've known seem to recoil from the notion of slave and lover as one—but I suspect that is not the sort of math that's within the scope of this thread. It seems to me you are an honest individual who can articulate his motives in submission. I think you're wise in being leery of "topping from the bottom", but rectifying that mindset with the "equal value kink relationship", while I guess is possible, is not without its illusory traps and philosophical challenges. Needless to say, just like the sockpuppet profiles, there is no shortage of individuals using these forums to search for romantic relationships with kinky, fulfilling sex.

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