Will Abortion on Demand Pass the Gender Test?

Will Abortion on Demand Pass the Gender Test? (Full Version)

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FatDomDaddy -> Will Abortion on Demand Pass the Gender Test? (6/8/2009 9:58:30 PM)
Abortion on Demand means exactly that, Abortion on demand. The new pregnancy gender tests will surely give a boost to Pro-Life factions. and while the reaction to gender testing (and sooner than later, sex orentation testing) should be to outlaw abortions based on sex or orentation of the unborn child, we all know the advocates of the choice of abortion have fought tooth in nail in The United States to stop even the most common sense limits on abortions. In fact the side of the abortion choice have often mocked such attempt to outlaw abortions based on sex and sexual orentation as "cheap trick" style legislation. If a woman has the right over what is growing into a human being in her womb, and if she has the right to decide on aborting, what is growing in her womb for any reason, then she can abort gays and girls if she wants right? It will be intresting to see how this will play out over the next ten to fifteen years. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10577091

Arpig -> RE: Will Abortion on Demand Pass the Gender Test? (6/8/2009 10:07:31 PM)
Hmmmmm...that is a poser, but I would have to say that I agree that a woman should have the right to abort, whatever the reason. While I find the practice distatsful in the extreme, I also find many things distatsful, yet they are protected rights that I would not attempt to infringe. To me this is a case of just that. Just as a person has the right to practice whatever religion they want, no matter how abhorant I find it (Phelps, etc.), a woman has the right to have an abortion, no matter how abhorant I may find her reasons for wanting it.

DomKen -> RE: Will Abortion on Demand Pass the Gender Test? (6/8/2009 10:08:02 PM)
It seems like a reasonable restriction. Of course no one on the pro choice side is feeling particularly reasonable right now since the anti choice scum have started killing doctors again. Maybe once we feel safe again but not now and not any time soon.

FatDomDaddy -> RE: Will Abortion on Demand Pass the Gender Test? (6/8/2009 10:19:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig Hmmmmm...that is a poser, but I would have to say that I agree that a woman should have the right to abort, whatever the reason. While I find the practice distatsful in the extreme, I also find many things distatsful, yet they are protected rights that I would not attempt to infringe. To me this is a case of just that. Just as a person has the right to practice whatever religion they want, no matter how abhorant I find it (Phelps, etc.), a woman has the right to have an abortion, no matter how abhorant I may find her reasons for wanting it. You will find whole populations aborting genetic homesexual out of exsistance, if they ever can determine the "gay" gene. Even if it was say a high probability, and not an exact certain that a male son will be born gay, there will still be whole populations that would rather not take the chance.

Arpig -> RE: Will Abortion on Demand Pass the Gender Test? (6/8/2009 10:27:46 PM)
That is true, it is possible. The counter to that is that most of the virulantly homophobic segments of the population are also stridently opposed to abortion as well. And as I said, I do not like the idea of limiting this right, for just the same reason that I oppose censorship of books. I wish nobody would read Mein Kampf, but I will never try to prevent someone from doing so, as to prohibit one book establishes a precedent I do not like or trust. It is the same thing with abortions, if we limit them in this way, then we have estabvlished a precedent that they can be limited, and once that door is opened it will be hard to prevent it from opening further. It is a question of if we should legislate how or why people exercise their rights or not. I for one oppose all efforts to legislate the reasons I decide to exercise one of my rights, to do so would be nearly impossible by the way. How does one prove that a woman wants to abort because the child is female or gay, I mean nobody but the woman actually knows the real reason, all the rest of us can do is guess.

Asherdelampyr -> RE: Will Abortion on Demand Pass the Gender Test? (6/8/2009 10:35:57 PM)
It seems like you are jumping to conclusions here, a few fun quotes from the article listed "Certain ethnic minorities here might be more prone to use it." - Wow, In USA that would be the worst thing ever to publicly say "although abortions were not permitted for sex selection, they were permitted on grounds of the mental health of the woman" - OK, that isnt exactly on demand, I mean, you have to be crazy or medically incapable of carrying to term/raising said child... "He expected they would sell for about $125." and "Women can also have a state-funded ultrasound scan at 18 to 20 weeks after conception, or earlier in some cases, and these can mostly determine the sex of the fetus." So already women can find the sex of the child while it is still legal to abort, and for free, yet somehow we missed the outcry of women everywhere getting abortions because of gender? And if you want real certainty, instead of the reported 90% accuracy rate "If a woman was intent on that course, she could, for a few hundred dollars, have a much more accurate test, such as amniocentesis." And maybe I missed it, but where did they state that they had found this mysterious "gay gene"? Also, just for kicks looked up the New Zealand State law (Since the article you chose is from New Zealand The grounds for an abortion are not contained in the CS&A Act but in the Crimes Act 1961 (and two amendments passed in December 1977 and July 1978). These grounds are: Serious danger to life Serious danger to physical health Serious danger to mental health Any form of incest or sexual relations with a guardian Mental subnormality Fetal abnormality (added in the July 1978 amendment) In addition, other factors which are not grounds in themselves but which may be taken into account are: Extremes of age Sexual violation (previously rape) Self-abortion is an offence. When you arent willing to actually check your facts, there will always be some asshole like me with the internet and some free time to check em for you :D

FatDomDaddy -> RE: Will Abortion on Demand Pass the Gender Test? (6/8/2009 10:37:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig The counter to that is that most of the virulantly homophobic segments of the population are also stridently opposed to abortion as well. You don't think that they won't find a way to see gay abortions in a different light? Remember this Arpig, right wing religious Bush loving kooks were once left wing, Bryant and then Roosevelt loving kooks. In fact, Evangelical Christians difined much of Democrat politics at the turn of the 20th century as they defined Republican politics at the turn of the 21st. They tend to change their minds a lot.

FatDomDaddy -> RE: Will Abortion on Demand Pass the Gender Test? (6/8/2009 10:51:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr And if you want real certainty, instead of the reported 90% accuracy rate "If a woman was intent on that course, she could, for a few hundred dollars, have a much more accurate test, such as amniocentesis." And maybe I missed it, but where did they state that they had found this mysterious "gay gene"? The accuracy for regular home pregnacy tests were not much better 35 years ago. does anyone even doubt a dollar store one now??? The accuracy for predicting the sex of the unborn child will likewise increase, and quickly. Do you doubt that in less than 10 years, you will be able to know the sex of your baby with days of conception? Hell I bet they will be on the same stick! Well maybe not the ones used by plannened parenthood. I believe, for them, knowing the sex before you arbort may be TMI. The "gay" gene has not been found yet, but if one belives that homosexuals are "born that way", then the genes will be there and be shown, as I said, sooner than later. That part was an add on and it mention by me was an aside marked off as such.

Asherdelampyr -> RE: Will Abortion on Demand Pass the Gender Test? (6/8/2009 10:54:23 PM)
All I am showing here is that there is already a cheaper option to get the same info just a couple weeks later and I still cannot find this on-demand abortion, the only referenace ws one made in that article by someone who opposes all abortion, the laws are quite clear on the subject.

Arpig -> RE: Will Abortion on Demand Pass the Gender Test? (6/8/2009 11:11:59 PM)
Abortions are available on demand in Canada,and this issue has surfaced before, apparently sex selection abortions do take place in some ethnic communities, however, as I stated before, I believe this is something that must be put up with for the sake of protecting the right of women to control their own bodies. http://www.theinterim.com/2006/july/03canadian.html http://www.nationalreviewofmedicine.com/issue/2007/09_15/4_policy_politics02_15.html

kittinSol -> RE: Will Abortion on Demand Pass the Gender Test? (6/9/2009 7:05:48 AM)
Eradicating women.

sirsholly -> RE: Will Abortion on Demand Pass the Gender Test? (6/9/2009 9:04:20 AM)
if a woman is going to abort, it should not be for the reason of sex...in my opinion. Where will this end? Next abortions will occur because genetic testing shows a baby with brown hair and eyes, and the parents want a blue eyed blonde? I realize i may hold an unpopular opinion here...but if she chooses abortion, let it be because she does not want the baby... not because the baby is not good enough...

thishereboi -> RE: Will Abortion on Demand Pass the Gender Test? (6/9/2009 9:10:44 AM)
fr It's already ok to have an abortion here because your boyfriend doesn't like condoms and counting doesn't always work, so this really isn't much of a leap in my opinion. If your going to give women the choice, then you have to accept that the reasons behind that choice won't always be ones you consider viable.

RCdc -> RE: Will Abortion on Demand Pass the Gender Test? (6/9/2009 9:13:25 AM)
You are either pro choice or you aren't. Sticking on stipulations to abortion defeats that. the.dark.

sirsholly -> RE: Will Abortion on Demand Pass the Gender Test? (6/9/2009 9:20:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi fr It's already ok to have an abortion here because your boyfriend doesn't like condoms and counting doesn't always work, so this really isn't much of a leap in my opinion. If your going to give women the choice, then you have to accept that the reasons behind that choice won't always be ones you consider viable. i know....i honestly see your point. I really do. But you are speaking common sense, and i am speaking emotion.

kittinSol -> RE: Will Abortion on Demand Pass the Gender Test? (6/9/2009 9:23:51 AM)
Ultimately, women have to be trusted in the decisions they make for themselves.

Arpig -> RE: Will Abortion on Demand Pass the Gender Test? (6/9/2009 9:47:03 AM)
quote: I realize i may hold an unpopular opinion here...but if she chooses abortion, let it be because she does not want the baby... not because the baby is not good enough... How on earth will you determine this?

sirsholly -> RE: Will Abortion on Demand Pass the Gender Test? (6/9/2009 10:03:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig quote: I realize i may hold an unpopular opinion here...but if she chooses abortion, let it be because she does not want the baby... not because the baby is not good enough... How on earth will you determine this? again with the common sense!! [:D] (sheeesh...you people!!) Short of not making the testing available, you cant. [sm=dunno.gif]

Arpig -> RE: Will Abortion on Demand Pass the Gender Test? (6/9/2009 10:08:33 AM)
quote: Short of not making the testing available, you cant. [sm=dunno.gif] That seems to me to be the onlyway to deal with the issue. However, as was pointed out above, the simple, and increasingly routine, ultrasound is easily able to determine the sex of a child. So the idea of banning gender testing is itself sort of pointless, unless we are no longer going to reveal the sex from an ultra sound, which would involve not allowing the ultrasound recipient to see the screen during the procedure, speaking from experience, a male child can be DAMN obvious on an ultrasound.

beargonewild -> RE: Will Abortion on Demand Pass the Gender Test? (6/9/2009 10:18:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig quote: I realize i may hold an unpopular opinion here...but if she chooses abortion, let it be because she does not want the baby... not because the baby is not good enough... How on earth will you determine this? again with the common sense!! [:D] (sheeesh...you people!!) Short of not making the testing available, you cant. [sm=dunno.gif] Holly........you also have to realize that with some, the reason to abort is not exactly as a woman states why she wants to abort. I've always took the stance that it is a woman who has a right to carry a fetus full term or not, simply on the fact that she is the one who has the ability to do so, we males are simply sperm factories. I have no right to tell a woman she is not allowed to abort, all I can do is hope that her choice is one she knows is best for her. I am not naive to believe that every reason given is legit and yes there are probably a few who abort because the fetus is the wrong gender or some other factor; yes it is sad and a tragedy. Morally I cringe at the thought of a potential human or any human being killed, yet as .dark had stated.....I can not attach stipulations to this issue, to do so would make my entire beliefs a lie.

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