RE: "Qualities of a realized Master"

RE: "Qualities of a realized Master" (Full Version)

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SimplyMichael -> RE: "Qualities of a realized Master" (6/13/2009 3:20:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero So...it took me a little bit to get over the fact that the list alienates any secular Dom/me. NZ, Vulcan's are not devoid of spirituality... Leadership, Colin Powell's words are every bit as much a platitude as what Master Skip wrote, the difference is that you respect Powell and have no idea who Master Skip is or the culture from which he comes. And lets not forget, Powell is also the guy that whitewashed the massacre at Mai Lia and refused to speak out against Bush till it was too late, so on some level, his words fall rather short to me.

oceanwinds -> RE: "Qualities of a realized Master" (6/13/2009 4:43:16 PM)
I am not really sure about this list. I do not feel a list of qualities can describe any person being a realized Master. To master one's life is an on going process imo. I also feel, even though this is 'ask a master' forum, there are realize submissives who is mastering their life as well. Qualities of a realized person mastering life is an individual thing.

antipode -> RE: "Qualities of a realized Master" (6/13/2009 4:48:00 PM)
quote: I found this in an old email Try writing something yourself. But I am happy you have time to reminisce.

GotSteel -> RE: "Qualities of a realized Master" (6/13/2009 4:59:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking The Qualities of a realized Master by Master Skip Chasey • A Master is spiritually awake. • A Master is actively engaged in regular spiritual practice to strengthen and deepen his awakening. • Despite appearances, in exercising his authority a Master’s primary intention is not to get his needs met, but to meet the needs of others as revealed by the Universe; it is a manner in which a Master fulfills his Divine purpose. • I'm an atheist so apparently I can't be a twue master [8\|] I guess I haven't spent enough time spanking my inner monkey.

Kana -> RE: "Qualities of a realized Master" (6/13/2009 6:14:29 PM)
Hell I am a work in progress. I am very much an unrealized Master and I am quite OK with that. The day I stop learning is the day I stop growing. So much for internal realization. As for as externals, there's only one person in my life who needs to realize who's the Master.

DomImus -> RE: "Qualities of a realized Master" (6/13/2009 9:53:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking I found this in an old email, and I would appreciate comments. I think it's a bunch of feel good fluff, to be entirely honest.

BossyShoeBitch -> RE: "Qualities of a realized Master" (6/13/2009 11:46:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven I Googled him. I hate to sound prejudiced, but I could never take someone seriously with the pic he presents to the world: http://www.wiseorchid.com/pupumentary/cast_txt.htm DarkSteven, Why not? What is it about the way he presents himself that you don't like?

NorthernGent -> RE: "Qualities of a realized Master" (6/14/2009 1:56:14 AM)
I'm not quite sure why realised is an operative word in this but comments as follows..... quote: ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking A Master is spiritually awake. Too abstract for me.....which I suppose suggests I'm not spiritually awake! quote: ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking To the best of his ability, a Master loves unconditionally. I have a real problem with imprecise communication. Why make a point about unconditional love and then apply a caveat such as: "to the best of his ability"? What possible purpose could this serve apart from to confuse? Anyway your Mother is the only person in the world who is capable of loving you unconditionally. quote: ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking A Master strives to be uncompromising in his integrity. A Master is honest, trustworthy and consistent in his words and actions. Agreed. Where you want people to follow you then you have to be good for your word. quote: ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking A Master is willing to be emotionally open and vulnerable, and does not hide his feelings but instead expresses them in a healthy manner. Great point. Honest and open communication about what and who you are is a prerequisite for effective communication and a solid relationship. quote: ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking A Master is self-sufficient. Self-sufficiency is a self-defeating illusion/pie in the sky that some convince themselves in order to validate their status as a dominant man. This comment is interesting because in the previous one he asks us to be open.....I think he needs to reflect on exactly how self-sufficient he is. There's a good reason why we organise ourselves into family work government religion etc. I'm losing commitment to this so I'll stop there and leave the rest to others.....

IronBear -> RE: "Qualities of a realized Master" (6/14/2009 2:12:20 AM)
I'm reminded of an essay I once wrote regarding the qualities of a Master and of which a few good souls were kind enough to complement me on via cmail. I do think however, without actually knowing the chap and knowing him well, I would be loath to make a detailed comment other than to express my general agreement or otherwise. Not everyone is blessed with the ability to write concisely and well or even assemble their ideas coherently. I have been fortunate enough to read a number of documents, some like the one in question and others in essay form. In each case, those of us who do put quill to parchment, can only write on how we as individuals see things, our ideals of such things as what a Dominant is and between the two we could compile something which is valid for us and even for those who agree with our ideals. But remember that such things deal with abstracts rather then a codified of what must be or not be with the universal agreement that failure to do so disqualifies some one who desires to be what ever the manifesto is dealing with. I do see the value in such things which deal for example what it is agree that a Gorean Free Man may be expected to be in general terms and even that is not an all defining document. Again such things may work well for a cult or select group of like minded people which by the very expectations of such a document will probably be low in members.

NorthernGent -> RE: "Qualities of a realized Master" (6/14/2009 2:29:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IronBear I'm reminded of an essay I once wrote regarding the qualities of a Master and of which a few good souls were kind enough to complement me on via cmail. I do think however, without actually knowing the chap and knowing him well, I would be loath to make a detailed comment other than to express my general agreement or otherwise. Not everyone is blessed with the ability to write concisely and well or even assemble their ideas coherently. I have been fortunate enough to read a number of documents, some like the one in question and others in essay form. In each case, those of us who do put quill to parchment, can only write on how we as individuals see things, our ideals of such things as what a Dominant is and between the two we could compile something which is valid for us and even for those who agree with our ideals. But remember that such things deal with abstracts rather then a codified of what must be or not be with the universal agreement that failure to do so disqualifies some one who desires to be what ever the manifesto is dealing with. I do see the value in such things which deal for example what it is agree that a Gorean Free Man may be expected to be in general terms and even that is not an all defining document. Again such things may work well for a cult or select group of like minded people which by the very expectations of such a document will probably be low in members. As the lad who wrote the piece was asking us to be open then I'm sure he will have no problem with an open response. I would expect the same. I agree that our ideas are a reflection of our perception of the world and not necessarily the world itself yet the topic is 'Qualities of a Master' which is more a philosophical question based on your experience of human behaviour (others rather than simply your own) rather than a statement of personal preference. I would say that I present my ideas forcefully in life in general and that's because I not only expect but I need the same in return to feel like I'm living life - you know a genuine open intense exchange of views. I think the lad who wrote the piece gave it some time and thought and is confident in his views so I doubt very much he'll have any problem with a reply in kind (assuming he's open and honest as he believes a master should be). Oh and I agree that such discussions are valuable - the exchange of ideas and knowledge is how we learn. No one would get very far were he/she to explore concepts in the mind and not discuss them or put them into practice with other people.

Kana -> RE: "Qualities of a realized Master" (6/14/2009 3:37:34 AM)
quote: Anyway your Mother is the only person in the world who is capable of loving you unconditionally. I just spewed coffee. Thanks. LOL

ZenDragoness -> RE: "Qualities of a realized Master" (6/14/2009 5:03:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven I Googled him. I hate to sound prejudiced, but I could never take someone seriously with the pic he presents to the world: http://www.wiseorchid.com/pupumentary/cast_txt.htm Dark Steven, mostly i like to read what you write, but you have totally lost me here. Can you please explain to me, why this picture is such a reason for ridicule and which way your flannel shirt picture is more reason to take you seriously or are you only taking leatherfolk seriously challenged? And yes i have no picture going with my profil. ZD

ZenDragoness -> RE: "Qualities of a realized Master" (6/14/2009 5:05:30 AM)
Concerning the text. I hate this master/mistress/whatever bible like mementos. They are in bdsm prevalent like in sects and i have grouped together with sweet cat photographs, bay lyric and music by most boy bands.

NorthernGent -> RE: "Qualities of a realized Master" (6/14/2009 5:17:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ZenDragoness Concerning the text. I hate this master/mistress/whatever bible like mementos. I quite like them as they act as useful discussion points. There's no reason to take them on board as gospel of course.

IronBear -> RE: "Qualities of a realized Master" (6/14/2009 8:09:17 AM)
On another site, Witches Hot Line where I both contribute and moderate, my motto or tag line as part of my signature states: "Do not take what I teach as Gospel, but as a working hypotheses until you prove it otherwise or find your own unique answers.. " It is something I tell students and I find it works most excellently without being dogmatic. I apply it in life as a general modus operandi.

Firebirdseeking -> RE: "Qualities of a realized Master" (6/14/2009 8:47:43 AM)
I am not a Master. I did not post this as the "gospel" for dominants and masters. I posted it to hear other reactions and thoughts. Thank you for being concerned about how I spend my time.

Firebirdseeking -> RE: "Qualities of a realized Master" (6/14/2009 8:50:48 AM)
Sorry my above reply was in response to Antipode. Technical difficulties.

Padriag -> RE: "Qualities of a realized Master" (6/14/2009 10:20:47 AM)
FR Ironbear brought an important point I think is key here... presentation is half of everything. You can have the greatest idea in the world, but if your presentation bombs no one is going to remember your idea. My impression is that perhaps that is what has happened here. With that in mind, I'm going to offer a few suggestion. First, was this taken out of context? We don't have the original author posting this, its a repost from by someone else (and was that done with the author's permission, btw?) So my first question is has this "manifesto" been taken out of context? Was it part of a larger body of work that addressed a specific audience only or was it really meant for general consumption? I ask because the author seems to be stressing spirituality quite a bit... so I wonder, was he intending to only address those wishing to include some form of spirituality in their lifestyle... or was he trying to say all masters should do so. In the former case, I really don't have anything to say about it because in that case he's addressing a group I'm not part of and for which I can't speak; but in the later case he'd be guilty of "one twue wayism" and I'd have quite a lot to say about it... none of it good. Context is important. Second, I would suggest to this Master Skip, if he happens to read this, that he consider his presentation more. Specifically, in what I have seen posted he seems to be stressing spirituality as part of being a Master, but its not clear whom he is addressing. Now as I said before, there are two ways to read this... one of which is entirely unacceptable... and its that later that I suspect is the root of many objections seen here. Had he started with a different title, for example, "Suggested Qualities for a Spiritual Master," you immediately get a different impression. That title accomplishes two things, it tells us who the audience is intended to be... those dominants who consider themselves spiritual... if you aren't one you can immediately skip it. It also makes it clear these are suggestions and guidelines... not the end all be all one twue way... its not confrontational (its rarely a good idea to argue with your readership). I think if this were reposted with such a different title, we'd see a marked difference in the responses with more being positive and fewer negative. He should take a similar line of thought in how the rest is written. I still have mixed feelings about what was posted. As I have said before, if this is his own personal code... I have nothing to say about that, people are entitled to that. But from what I am hearing, this Master Skip has put himself out there in the public as some sort of motivational speaker... so these aren't just his personal code it appears to be something he is selling to others. I just don't know if it was intended for a specific audience or the general public. Again, in the former case... for those into spirituality and believe it necessary, that's fine for them as long as they respect that not everyone agrees and that others have a right to live differently. In the later case, I'm afraid I'd have to start ripping this guy apart... but as I don't really know what the actual case may be and until such a time as the author himself makes it known here, I'll reserve my opinion.

Andalusite -> RE: "Qualities of a realized Master" (6/14/2009 11:53:07 AM)
I attended a class he presented on single-tails. I disagreed with him when he said that flogging is cathartic and that single-tails are scary, due to my experiences in bottoming to both. I find single-tails very cathartic, while spankings rarely make me cry. The noise startles me sometimes, but doesn't make me truly fearful or hit my adreneline fight-or-flight buttons the way that, for example, breathplay does. I waited until after the class was over, and discussed it a bit, and he wasn't dogmatic about it at all. It was very much "This is how the people I have played with experienced these things, but everyone's a bit different." So, I think that it probably has to do with his writing/teaching style, but that he isn't claiming that everyone has to fit into his world-view. I really enjoyed meeting him, as a speaker who is also very openly and passionately Christian. Like him, I was raised Southern Baptist, and currently identify as a Christian in a more ecumenical/non-denominational focus. Most classes that incorporate spirituality and BDSM focus exclusively on Pagans of various sorts, so it was lovely to see some things I could identify with, although I didn't agree with him on all of them. I don't think an atheist or agnostic Master/Dominant/Mistress/etc., or that they need to quickly find a spiritual path in order to be worthy of having a M/s or D/s relationship, and I doubt that was what he intended his audience/readers to take away from it. Clearly, spirituality and faith are very important to him, and he feels that they can help enrich D/s and M/s relationships.

flamingpuppets -> RE: "Qualities of a realized Master" (6/15/2009 4:43:55 AM)
quote: bit to get over the fact that the list alienates any secular Dom/me. And then, after that, I realized that most of what was left were numerous adages that quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero So...it took me a little bit to get over the fact that the list alienates any secular Dom/me. And then, after that, I realized that most of what was left were numerous adages that either would apply to any decent, honest person (irrelevant of any BDSM factor) or were one-line equivalents to daily horoscopes. yeah I don't think I could ever submit to a man that believed in God.

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