RE: Are you what you believe or where you come from ?

RE: Are you what you believe or where you come from ? (Full Version)

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kdsub -> RE: Are you what you believe or where you come from ? (6/19/2009 12:25:02 PM)
I very good portion came to America for personal and religious freedoms… mine did in the 1750’s. Just look at the recent mass immigrations to America. Many the result of persecutions in the their countries of origin. Cubans…Vietnamese…Croatians…believe it or not…Iraq... Burma…Iran…Somalia…Ukraine…Bosnian…on and on Too many to list…do a search and check the statistics yourself…Of course they want a better life here but that is not the only reason they are packing up their families and leaving all they have known. Butch

olena -> RE: Are you what you believe or where you come from ? (6/19/2009 12:53:53 PM)
I did not say it was not a reason I said the first and by far biggest factor had to do with quality of life. I think most of those countries you listed are either going through religious civil wars which was not the case for most who came before. People did not flee because of religious persecution but because their quality of life just stunk and that was the biggest motivation by far. I think over the years and often to get into this country the religion excuse is played because “my country sucks” does not get you into America or sound very noble. I am a perfect example as a Ukrainian Christian immigrant which is one of the countries you listed. The Ukraine is a very strong Christian country! There has been no religious oppression in the Ukraine for over twenty years and even for most of the Russian occupation we were free to practice are religions as long as it did not outshine or try to change the Soviet government. No one got thrown in jail just because they had a bible on them or attended a service.

kdsub -> RE: Are you what you believe or where you come from ? (6/19/2009 1:50:08 PM)
Quality of life to me would include following beliefs... I don't know the exact proportion but I think you may be underestimating those fleeing from persecution. Certainly at the beginning most were coming for religious freedom… this not only included English but also French and German Huguenots. In later years they were fleeing the European wars and forced enlistment and starvation The early Irish were forced from their homelands by religious strife. Yes many came with the famine but many more from religious persecution and the English. Many Italians came because of natural disasters in southern Italy… when they tried to move north their fellow countrymen, because of the scarcity of resources, persecuted them… so they came to America. Don’t forget groups such as the Jews… no explanation needed there. I would guess that the majority of legal immigration to the United Sates in the last 50 years was because of one kind of persecution or the other…not just looking for a better life. That would insinuate that their life was acceptable before their choice. Butch

olena -> RE: Are you what you believe or where you come from ? (6/19/2009 2:11:28 PM)
I guess we just have a difference of opinion as to what is leaving a country because of beliefs and leaving to survive and do better. To me leaving a country for beliefs would be someone in America who is pro life relocating to a country that has anti-abortion laws. Your examples to me are people forced into bad situations and reacting to those bad situations more then their ability to practice their beliefs or forced to violate them. Yes, for some of those examples they are being discriminated which forces the bad situation but from personal experiences the focus is on the bad situation and not the cause of it. People do not leave their families to seek out something better because of their beliefs. They do it to either help out their families financially or their families’ biggest desires and goal in life is to see their children do better then what they have. The core of thoughts and drives are basic human things not religious. I also believe that many that claim religious persecution that come into this country is not the real or main reason but the reason that can get them in.

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