RE: Is it moral to break a slave

RE: Is it moral to break a slave (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Is it moral to break a slave

I'm a sub/slave (yes)

25% (38)

I'm a sub/slave (no)

30% (47)

I'm a master (yes)

16% (25)

I'm a master (no)

19% (29)

maybe

8% (13)

Total Votes : 152

(last vote on : 7/14/2010 7:40:17 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

Message

Prunesquallor -> RE: Is it moral to break a slave (10/19/2005 8:11:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy The problem I have with this poll really comes down to defining what "break a slave" means. Sinergy Exactly. I will break a slave's defences, wiles, disobedience, insolence, limits. I will sometimes break into song. I will even break wind from time to time. But would I want to break a slave's spirit? No, I wouldn't - I can't think of anything more destructive.

EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Is it moral to break a slave (10/19/2005 8:32:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy Hello, The problem I have with this poll really comes down to defining what "break a slave" means. Exactly. Lots of people would be a lot better off if the broke out of who they are now, trapped by their past, and become "totally new people." Heck we've seen more than a few on this forum who could stand to be broken and then remade.

CitizenCane -> RE: Is it moral to break a slave (10/19/2005 8:41:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2 quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy Hello, The problem I have with this poll really comes down to defining what "break a slave" means. Exactly. Lots of people would be a lot better off if the broke out of who they are now, trapped by their past, and become "totally new people." Heck we've seen more than a few on this forum who could stand to be broken and then remade. Exactly. Cane

IronBear -> RE: Is it moral to break a slave (10/19/2005 9:29:15 AM)
If you want to break an object, and animal or a sub/slave, you better know how to fix it right. I've trained a lot of people in my time and even more animals. Break the spirit of an animal and you have a broken animal. You take the time and TRAIN it, he or her. Proper training does two things, it gets your animal or sub/slave where you want them to be and it forms an almost unbreakable bond and it can be fun too. I wonder how many here have realy seen a "broken" person? It is a sad sorry sight to see some one totally helpless and without any hope.. Breaking is for those who are lazy, inexperienced or someone who just doesn't give a shit. ~ Just my opinion, take it and run with it or walk away. Edited to add: Morality is a personal situation my Morality is nothing like most other people so i discount it here. Honour is a different story and i believe it to be dishonourable to break a sub/slave or animal.

RiotGirl -> RE: Is it moral to break a slave (10/19/2005 9:37:41 AM)
i agree with it. Because i do. LOL i think we ourselves can hinder us from growing. Like Em said. And i'm prolly one of those ppl Em LOL.

sub4hire -> RE: Is it moral to break a slave (10/19/2005 1:43:07 PM)
quote: Is it moral to try to break a slave's spirit/free will with her consent? If you don't like the person the way they are why are you with them in the first place?

FLButtSlut -> RE: Is it moral to break a slave (10/21/2005 1:30:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thewonderer Is it moral to try to break a slave's spirit/free will with her consent? What part of "breaking" is misunderstood in this statement? There is no discussion of "bad habits" or anything like that. We are SPECIFICALLY talking about breaking someone's spirit/free will. These are the things that drive a person ethically and morally. To break such things is to destroy who that person is. No one should need to have their spirit/free will broken by some ignorant misguided master who thinks that is the appropriate way to teach them the "proper" way to serve.

domtimothy46176 -> RE: Is it moral to break a slave (10/21/2005 7:37:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FLButtSlut quote: ORIGINAL: thewonderer Is it moral to try to break a slave's spirit/free will with her consent? What part of "breaking" is misunderstood in this statement? There is no discussion of "bad habits" or anything like that. We are SPECIFICALLY talking about breaking someone's spirit/free will. These are the things that drive a person ethically and morally. To break such things is to destroy who that person is. No one should need to have their spirit/free will broken by some ignorant misguided master who thinks that is the appropriate way to teach them the "proper" way to serve. Perhaps no one should "need" to or even want to but is it immoral to do so with that slave's consent? While I can't envision a situation that would require it, neither do I have an ethical problem, in theory, with doing such to someone who was willing. I may be a bit whacked but my ethics would allow me to do almost anything consensual to a consenting adult. The exceptions are limited to those things that I find to be unethical under any circumstances. To illustrate my reasoning, I offer the following: If the slave was incapable of responding to conventional training and required, for some reason, a complete personality overhaul in order to acquire new emotional reactions and the subsequent behavioral responses, I would consider it ethical to break her and rebuild her in accordance with her wishes, assuming I possessed the neccessary knowledge and skills to do so. I don't possess the knowledge or skills so, for me, this is a purely hypothetical scenario. I am, however, puzzled at the responses that completely discounted the consent of the slave. It's reminiscent of those who would claim that no one has the right to consent to being beaten or humiliated. Timothy

FLButtSlut -> RE: Is it moral to break a slave (10/21/2005 8:28:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domtimothy46176 I don't possess the knowledge or skills so, for me, this is a purely hypothetical scenario. I am, however, puzzled at the responses that completely discounted the consent of the slave. It's reminiscent of those who would claim that no one has the right to consent to being beaten or humiliated. Timothy I did not discount the "consent" of the slave at all. Rather, I just did not get into the fact that someone who would "consent" to such a thing probably does not have the mental capacity to give such consent. Another thing that is important to note...While you admit that YOU do not possess the knowledge or skills to engage in such activity, most whose personal ethics and morals would tell them such behavior is "ok" would not worry much about whether they were capable of such activities. quote: ORIGINAL: domtimothy46176 To illustrate my reasoning, I offer the following: If the slave was incapable of responding to conventional training and required, for some reason, a complete personality overhaul in order to acquire new emotional reactions and the subsequent behavioral responses, I would consider it ethical to break her and rebuild her in accordance with her wishes, Think about your illustration for a moment. Someone in need of a "complete personality overhaul?" Only a qualified professional therapist can really make such a determination. Certainly nearly everyone has met someone we think needs such an overhaul, but if someone were to actually need one, very few doms (compared to the entire population of dominants) are in the profession to make that determination or be capable of such modifications. The mere fact that someone WANTS their spirit broken should make any reasonable dominant question the sub/slave's mental stability and direct them towards the appropriate professional and give them the emotional support necessary to help them become who they need to be. The fact that the slave consents to such activity becomes irrelevant because they don't have the capability to consent. To imply that consent is all that is necessary would be to imply that it would be ethically and morally "ok" to kill a slave because they "consented".

kinkiminx -> RE: Is it moral to break a slave (10/23/2005 3:01:22 PM)
Since I've never had a fantasy about being "broken" I couldn't understand why some people might want this, but clearly they must or the topic probably wouldn't come up! Personally I'd have to question how it can really be healthy, often the fantasy of something is completely different from the reality. I don't know about other subs on here, but I have a feeling it would probably be impossible to break me as the only way to get total submission out of me is through gaining love and respect and handling me in an appropriately dominant way... People who try to mistreat me or make assumptions seem to get completely the opposite reaction.. -I was always the naughty girl at school! Also if someone loves you for who you are, why would they want to destroy that? Would someone really have a relationship where the submission comes from fear rather than love and the sub loses all the character that the Dom/me liked in the first place? I think whether its moral or not is a question too difficult to answer partly because everyone's morals are different... for example some people I've met have thought 24/7 would be immoral and others seem to be really happy in a TPE situation. But when it comes to breaking subs, having never been there myself or spoken in detail with anyone who has, I don't really feel that I'm in a situation to pass judgement on that one. The consent idea is interesting, because so much of what makes bdsm healthy and acceptable revolves around consent, and the ideas domtimothy46176 wrote were interesting, but I don't think therapists, let alone most people really have any idea whether someone needs a complete personal overhaul, apart from maybe in some situations the person them self, but then is breaking them really an appropriate way to do that? Building on and changing a person through other methods might work just as well, while keeping intact the person who they are. Would it necessarily be possible to rebuild that person after breaking them? ...and then again, if someone needs a complete personal overhaul to be submissive, are they really a sub? Or maybe they're just not suited to that level of power exchange in a relationship... unless a sub has been hurt in the past, though I would have thought breaking someone who isn't feeling completely stable wouldn't necessarily provide the desired results.. I suppose I can't think of a situation where it would seem appropriate except if that's what the sub's fantasies revolve around... but then I have rape fantasies, and that doesn't mean I actually want to be raped in reality by someone I don't find attractive or don't want to take part in something like that with. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the meaning of "breaking" a sub, though I have met a couple of people who've been in abusive relationships and broken nonconsensually in a non-bdsm environment, though that is an entirely different situation, I've never heard of it creating a positive situation. Looks about half and half at the moment, I don't think i can really understand this myself, so it would be interesting to hear more from the people who voted yes..

lonewolf05 -> RE: Is it moral to break a slave (10/25/2005 8:33:03 PM)
there is still a lot of things about this lifestyle that makes NO damned sense to me,....and THIS is one of em. ya DONT break a horse. ya dont try to break a dog... ya DONT ....DO a lot of things in life if you actually expect anything good out of it. some things are MEANT to be a "oh duh!" some questions are not meant to be asked... and to answer THIS one..though i despise it...... i was NOT aware it COULD be done. but MAYBE then "I" spent WAY too much time growing up on the street as a kid and i developed that "up yours" defiance..... but if someone actually COULD BE broke...WHY??????? why would anyone WANT a doormat? where in holy hell is the challenge.. to dominating THAT? might as well get yourself a wet blanket out of the washer coz that is about what it would be like. naw man. no one should be broke. for ANY reason. and i did not click an answer because there is no choice for "i didnt know ya could" the wolf prowling

domtimothy46176 -> RE: Is it moral to break a slave (10/28/2005 5:10:25 PM)
I don't know, perhaps it's just my perverse nature, but I think it would be perfectly acceptable to break someone who is a child-molester, serial rapist, etc. There are plenty of folks who would benefit from being remade from the inside out. Granted this is outside of the scope of the Op but so is all the discussion of why it would be desirable to break someone. I don't see it as a moral dilemma. The question was never "whether a broken slave would make a good slave". I personally have no interest in breaking a slave. I can, however, debate the moral implications of a purely hypothetical scenario. Timothy

pinkpleasures -> RE: Is it moral to break a slave (10/30/2005 4:58:59 AM)
quote: Edited to add: Morality is a personal situation my Morality is nothing like most other people so i discount it here. Honour is a different story and i believe it to be dishonourable to break a sub/slave or animal. IronBear i have seen PLENTY of battered women who had been "broken" by their abusers until they were almost unable to function. It was so difficult to communicate with them; they held irrational beliefs such as "he'll know i spoke to you"; "maybe i can avoid getting hit again"; "he's not really dangerous"; etc. It requires a woman (and man, i have no doubt) to "wake up" to reality and find that her abuser is not onmipotent before she can accept help and escape him. Anyone who would even consider putting a woman (or man) into such a state is an abuser IMO. pinkpleasures

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