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RE: War on Terrorism - 2/14/2006 11:42:26 PM

FangsNfeet

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quote:

yes, the tragedy of 911 were great, but the USA was slow in responding, went there, failed to do what they went for and drew out the war longer than neccessary.

we need to back off and wait for Bin Laden to fuck up when he thinks it's safe instead of continually wasting time and funds to find him. odds are, he's not even in Iraq. he's probably in some far away country, laughing his ass off at how stupid the USA is...(IMHO)

Slow in responding? The regiem in Afghanistan was attacked within a month of 9/11. As for failure, well how many terrorist attacks has the USA had since 9/11? Our troops must be doing somthing right in keeping these terrorist on there toes and to busy to plot more vicious attacks.

As for Bin Laden, if you give this guy an inch, he'll run a mile. If we back off, can we catch him if and when we see him again? I could care less if we actually catch him. Keeping him on the run and in hiding for the rest of his life sounds like a much more fun way to imprison someone.

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Post #: 61

RE: War on Terrorism - 2/15/2006 6:28:48 AM

JohnWarren

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet
Nothing is perfect but the WARS are being attacked head strong. You're speaking as if Good will one day destroy Evil. Sorry michael but evil is will always be out there. It Goods job to continue to fight it.

I wish we'd knock off the "war" talk. It's like the people who decry an unwanted kiss as "rape" or a few outbreaks as a "epidemic."

The most important outcome of this rhetoric is the words lose their meaning. "Wars" should be limited to military actions against cohesive organizations and have specific and stated conditions of victory or defeat.

We had what looked like a war against Iraq. We destroyed the leadership; we captured the primary leader. That's over. What we have no is a vacuum in which groups and individuals are trying insert their own power structure. Some are doing it politically. Some are trying to do it by conventional force of arms. Some are trying to to it with terror. To make this quagmire worse, WE are still there and providing a handy target and rallying point.

What really bothers me is we don't have any clear "victory conditions." Bush talks about "a stable government" but what country in that region, including Israel has a completely stable government? For that matter, what is a stable government? No death squads? No armed protests? (this in a country that would make a second amendment absolutist hang his head in embarrassment) No sabotage?

Looked at clearly, we know less about when we will have "won" than we did when the tanks first crossed the berm in northern Kuwait.

Since WWII, where the victory conditions were clearly put forth by the President "Unconditional Surrender," we've been in two big wars. One is still going on in Korea; the other ended with Americans scrambling aboard helicopters atop the embassy in what was a few days later Ho Chi Mihn City.

Failing to have a clear victory critera is a bad bad thing.

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Post #: 62

RE: War on Terrorism - 2/15/2006 3:16:34 PM

MistressJenny270

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I think that we should talk more about the "war" talk. I don't think that we talk about it enough. If we talk about it, maybe this country and the people in it will come up with a solution to resolve everything. We don't talk and nothing seems to get resolved. Why not talk?

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Post #: 63

RE: War on Terrorism - 2/15/2006 3:39:14 PM

SirKenin

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From: Barrie, ON Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren
As for the book of revelations, people have been waving that around for over 1500 years and it hasn't happened yet.

The book of Revelations DID happen, actually. It was Paul's special way to warn the Jews that trouble was brewing. Imprisoned on the Island of Patmos, he was surrounded by Roman troops. In his writing of Revelations he was writing to warn of severe persecution by the Romans which actually did happen. The problem was that he had to get it out in a code that only the Jews would understand, or it would never make it past the hands of the Roman guards on the island.

As for China, they have been secretly building up a naval fleet for years. The US has already gathered intelligence indicating their buildup of submarines and what not. China has also been bringing in weapons from Russia. They were caught by satellite doing it, right before the Chinese terminated the satellite's abilities to communicate for a period of several hours. The Chinese have also started up several nuclear plants. It is not IF they can take over Taiwan. It is when, and Taiwan knows it. The USA knows it too, and has stated they will protect Taiwan, as it is their major trading partner.

The USA depends heavily on satellite technology to fight. The Chinese depend on guerilla tactics. The Chinese have proven that they have the ability to blind the eyes of the US Army. The USA is going to have to fight a battle on China's terms, and blind, further hampering them. The only thing stopping China from stomping all over Taiwan right now is moving their two million man army. USA is spread way too thin, all over the world. They do not have the manpower to stop them once they are moving. The only thing that will save them is if they can maintain air supremacy over the Sea. I suspect, though, that the USA will not be able to mobilize in the area on time.

It is My belief that when the timing is right, China is going to kick the USA's ass.

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Post #: 64

RE: War on Terrorism - 2/15/2006 6:03:22 PM

michaelGA

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provided you believe that the Bible is more than a work of fiction (my own personal opinion)

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Post #: 65

RE: War on Terrorism - 2/15/2006 7:26:45 PM

mnottertail

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I would like to point out that the chinese last year outsold the US who used to be the largest supplier of electronic computational hardware..............

To the tune of about 25 billion outsold.

These guys ain't all livin' in caves.

We are headed for the rhubarb, daddio!!!!!!!!

Robn

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Post #: 66

RE: War on Terrorism - 2/15/2006 8:25:19 PM

SirKenin

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From: Barrie, ON Canada
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Yes, the Chinese without a doubt dominate the computer market. All the main suppliers are Chinese, all the components are made in China, and all My suppliers here in Canada are Chinese. Every single one of them. They know what they are doing, that is for sure.

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Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

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Post #: 67

RE: War on Terrorism - 2/15/2006 11:05:28 PM

subfever

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Petruchio

One interesting fact: China has become our single largest creditor, owning so much of our 'paper' that if they quickly sold it off, they could plunge our economy into havoc...

Perhaps so. But isn't the USA the largest importer of China's consumer goods? Who would they sell most of their doo-dads and knick-knacks to if they ruined our economy?

I'm not an economist, but as a layman, it seems to me that they would also be ruining their own economy by ruining ours.

(in reply to Petruchio)

Post #: 68

RE: War on Terrorism - 2/15/2006 11:23:09 PM

Petruchio

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Joined: 2/6/2005
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quote:

Why go over there? That's where the enemy is

With respect, that's the problem: In attacking Iraq, we attacked the one place where bin Laden and al Qaida wasn't. (And please note that this comes from someone who has been overseas.)

Guage raises a good question:

quote:

What exactly did you expect the US to do? Did you expect us to just sit there and say, "Well, that's OK... you attacked us on our soil and killed thousands... no biggie."

The world understood why we had to go into Afghanistan. That was the right thing to do.

No one could possibly understand why we went into Iraq. That was the wrong thing to do.

What we have failed to learn in Watergate and previous scandals, is that goverments (and not just our own) lie to their people to achieve their own ends. The rest of the world tried to tell us, but we weren't listening. Nearly as sad as so many of my colleagues losing their lives is the irreparable harm that has come our national reputation.

(in reply to FangsNfeet)

Post #: 69

RE: War on Terrorism - 2/15/2006 11:49:35 PM

michaelGA

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i still think that, if we were gonna do it, we should have just bombed them and been done with it, instead we send more Americans over there to die...what is the body count up to now?

signed, the invisible and often ignored brat of the forum

< Message edited by michaelGA -- 2/16/2006 12:02:15 AM >

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Post #: 70

RE: War on Terrorism - 2/15/2006 11:51:07 PM

subfever

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressJenny270

Our country was built on trusting GOD and we have turned our backs on him.

Our country was built on trusting God???

I wonder what God had to say about the US Government stealing this country from the American Indians, and all the atrocities that accompanied the theft.

I'm not a religious man, but to me, that certainly looks like a classic example of turning our backs to God.

Isn't it tragically ironic that the "savage" Indians were one of the most god-like creatures on earth, possessing their remarkable harmony with nature?

But I do agree with you that our current war with Iraq is immoral.

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Post #: 71

RE: War on Terrorism - 2/16/2006 12:06:31 AM

subfever

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Joined: 5/22/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelGA

i still think that, if we were gonna do it, we should have just bombed them and been done with it, instead we send more Americans over there to die...what is the body count up to now?

One could also ask what the innocent civilian body count (including women and children) would be, had we just bombed them and been done with it.

< Message edited by subfever -- 2/16/2006 12:09:39 AM >

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Post #: 72

RE: War on Terrorism - 2/16/2006 12:50:09 AM

JohnWarren

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Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelGA

i still think that, if we were gonna do it, we should have just bombed them and been done with it, instead we send more Americans over there to die...what is the body count up to now?

One could also ask what the innocent civilian body count (including women and children) would be, had we just bombed them and been done with it.

Not only that, but history has shown that, without boots on the ground, a nation cannot be defeated. Just look a Germany, Britain, Vietnam. For example, in Germany, during the height of the bombing, production went up.

Bombing is a tool, but dispite such advocates as Curtis LeMay, it has never won a war. The war against Japan wasn't won by "bombing." It was won by shock. The Japanese were faced with a weapon against which they couldn't adapt in time. Up to that point, despite the enormous raids, some of which did more damage than the atomic attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, they were fully ready to resist invasion. Just look at the details of "Ketsu-Go," the defense plan they had in place.

This may come as a shock, but the US death rate isn't all that high. We lost more men taking single islands in the Pacific. It's not how many die, but if their deaths count for something. If we were truly defending freedom, hundreds of thousands would be well worthwhile, but to build a fool's ego and improve the profits of oil companies, one death is too much.

Side comment: I'm wondering if I'm spending too much time on off topic posts. After all, my intention when I arrived on this board was to advise on BDSM matters, and I fear the ratio of my replies is becoming lopsided.

< Message edited by JohnWarren -- 2/16/2006 1:17:35 AM >

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Post #: 73

RE: War on Terrorism - 2/16/2006 12:59:49 AM

subfever

Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressJenny270

I think that we should talk more about the "war" talk. I don't think that we talk about it enough. If we talk about it, maybe this country and the people in it will come up with a solution to resolve everything. We don't talk and nothing seems to get resolved. Why not talk?

There's nothing wrong with discussion and debate. However, in discussions such as these, we can talk until we're blue in the face (or in this format, until our fingers are raw). Even in the miraculous event that the common masses concoct and agree upon a perfect solution to resolve everything, we don't have the power to implement such solution.

There are forces more powerful behind the scenes than most people are either aware of or are willing to publicly admit. And power has never willingly relinquished itself.

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Post #: 74

RE: War on Terrorism - 2/16/2006 1:07:48 AM

subfever

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Joined: 5/22/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

If we were truly defending freedom, hundreds of thousands would be well worth while, but to build a fool's ego and improve the profits of oil companies, one death is too much.

Well said.

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Post #: 75

RE: War on Terrorism - 2/16/2006 1:11:03 AM

michaelGA

Posts: 1194
Status: offline

they kill us...we kill them...they kill more of us ...and we kill more of them...where does it all end?

how many more lifes must perish before it is enough?

and why is it that people feel the need to kill or die for something so...superficial as land, a flag or some other symbol that people seem to worship so blindly?

i asked this next question in another forum, but regarding a different subject entirely...yet it seems to fit this one so clearly

How much is too much?

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Post #: 76

RE: War on Terrorism - 2/16/2006 1:42:34 AM

Petruchio

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quote:

what is the body count up to now?

The US media has been widely criticized for publishing only the US body count. For quite some time, al Jazeera has been reporting that the Iraqi count is in the high 30-thousand range. Recently, George Bush confirmed this.

(in reply to michaelGA)

Post #: 77

RE: War on Terrorism - 2/16/2006 4:22:19 AM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever
Isn't it tragically ironic that the "savage" Indians were one of the most god-like creatures on earth, possessing their remarkable harmony with nature?

Dream on!

When they had the opportunity they would hunt buffalo by stampeding the whole herd over a cliff!

If they didnt want a new born baby they would smash their head with rocks.

Here in wisconsin roughly 10 years ago they decided to exercize their fishing rights as per the treaty we signed back in th estone ages with them.

Well that tossed the DNR right out the window and now what was managed conservation is desolation and the whole northern half of wisconsin walleye population is down so far that us white boys are only allowed to catch 2 per day while the indians go and kill them off thousands during the spawning season of all things so new eggs never hatch and no baby fishies! After they wipe out one area they move to the next and wipe it out!!!

Not even worth pulling the boat out.

i am not saying we treated them remotely right when we moved in, we didnt, but harmony? i think not. go to northern wisconsin in any sports shop and dare say that!

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Post #: 78

RE: War on Terrorism - 2/16/2006 5:03:22 AM

JohnWarren

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Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
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One also might want to do a search on "slash and burn agriculture"

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Post #: 79

RE: War on Terrorism - 2/16/2006 5:20:08 AM

Real0ne

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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelGA
we need to back off and wait for Bin Laden to fuck up when he thinks it's safe instead of continually wasting time and funds to find him.

wrong. we need to do exactly what we are doing only step it up even more yet. Why? because as long as he is constantly dodging bullets he cannot organize! he isnt the one who fucks up we are!!!

Now a quick note about us efficiency. lets see how can i put this.

at the time of 911 a friend of mine from that part of the country overheard the maid talking about where binladen was with another maid!! one of the maids other friends had seen him. That is standard nilla maids, not the bdsm type ;)

all the people there protect and hide him from us!!!! not only in afg but pak too.

This was about 3/4 way thru the bombing of pak. He was in peshawar and travelling between peshawar and cabul.

This is such a freaking joke because "everyone" over there knows where he is virtually all the time!!!! He is their hero because he gave the asshole secular infidels a big black eye!!! Remember we are all infidels to them! and the only good infidel is a dead infidel, dont kid yourself!

Well gi joe great dumb ass patriot that i am called military intel and told them the story.

i thought for sure they would get that sob with info only 6 hours old.

NOT NOT NOT FUCKING NOT

by the time those idiots mobilized, a freaking WEEK later, the maid said he had already moved to the western mountain region between pak and afg. DUH!! mind you this maid had no clu any of this was coming back here or she would have clammed up.

i was livid. i am still fucking livid.

then once again 2 weeks to freaking late they started searching the northern mountain regions and it was shortly after that they got his main man heading west after they split up and binny did a uturn back up north. Pathetic huh?

So much for assinine american efficiency!

ask me if i think they will ever get him?

i dont think they could find him if he was fucking tied up and blindfolded in the fucking oval office!

very sad but tru story

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to michaelGA)

Post #: 80

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