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RE: Punishing My Sub - 6/19/2009 8:12:23 AM

CallaFirestormBW

Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
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quote:

Original: DaddyDomP

To clarify, I don't mind punishing her. I have in the past but when I have, it usually means I don't get something I desire so it seems I lose out then which to me isn't fair to me. She loves spanking all to much. I think what she might be desiring to find ways to disappoint just to be punished.

SirMikeSD, I see what you are saying. I don't think it is quite like that but I can appreciate it is a fine line.

Thanks for the responses. Some good idea's.

My thought on this -- take "spanking" or whatever activity she enjoys doing out of the 'punishment' realm, and make it part of the "We're doing this because we both enjoy it" realm. That way, she doesn't have to mis-behave to get the spankings she desires, and you don't have to give up activities you enjoy to "punish" her for doing things wrong in order to get her spankings.

I disagree with SirMike on this one thing. I think that, as dominant individuals who have taken on the responsibility of a servant, we sometimes choose to do things that will be beneficial and/or pleasurable to that servant, if for no other reason than because treating one's servants with a modicum of consideration for their needs provides an outstanding level of return in excellent, dedicated service. Of course, part of what we sign on for, IMO, when we take on a servant, is the responsibility of shaping that servant to the point where xhe can serve with grace and dignity, secure in hir position and deportment -- so giving your girl the occasional spanking, either as a regular activity you enjoy or as a reward, rather than making it a punishment thing, would eliminate the whole passive/aggressive "I'm going to misbehave so I can get a spanking (or whatever the punishment of choice is)", and give her positive reinforcement of the behavior you prefer.

Dame Calla

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

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(in reply to DaddyDomP)

Post #: 21

RE: Punishing My Sub - 6/19/2009 10:59:31 AM

sweetgirlserves

Posts: 373
Joined: 4/14/2009
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Another 'similar yet different' angle on this might be that she really needs to feel Your power over her. When she is doing everything right, everything is going smoothly so you probably don't have much need to exert authority over her... and that might be what she is craving.

If that is it, then deciding that you are going to do a spanking as play because you both enjoy it, might not really work for her mentally.

~sgs

_____________________________

"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." ~Maya Angelou

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)

Post #: 22

RE: Punishing My Sub - 6/19/2009 11:41:27 AM

onlyfreelycaged

Posts: 254
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddyDomP

To clarify, I don't mind punishing her. I have in the past but when I have, it usually means I don't get something I desire so it seems I lose out then which to me isn't fair to me. She loves spanking all to much. I think what she might be desiring to find ways to disappoint just to be punished.

This is called manipulation. I find the best punishment for this is the complete withdrawal of my attention - beyond sitting her in a corner for a half hour or so. After she's "done her time", I tend to find something to do that doesn't require her participation for awhile longer....

I really don't like being manipulated; it's the tail trying to wag the dog - not the natural order of things! Good news is that once you make a firm stand, it doesn't tend to reoccur - subs reeeeeeally like attention.

Focus.

that sounds like punishing *after* the punishment. once the punishment is done, it's over... if you contintiue to inflict things on the poor sub, it won't help. she'll just assume that when you punish here it's not over..

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 23

RE: Punishing My Sub - 6/19/2009 12:23:52 PM

babygirl1065

Posts: 8
Joined: 7/15/2008
Status: offline

Thank you barelynangel,onlyfreelycaged,DesFIP,Sweetgirlserves,Callafirestorm ...you have understood what wasn't obvious or clear to all. I am the submissive of which DaddyDomP is speaking. He is new to this and searching for information. I suggested He try coming here as I have found it helpful in the past. What you are saying about an ongoing desire for discipline was what I meant when I stated my desires to Him. And to all who felt I was "topping from the bottom"...I never tell Him to do anything. I simply ask if He would consider or like this or that. I prefer to let Him decide and then to "make it us". I just feel he is learning me as well as discovering Himself. Thank you all for your feedback.

< Message edited by babygirl1065 -- 6/19/2009 12:41:25 PM >

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 24

RE: Punishing My Sub - 6/19/2009 12:45:11 PM

NorthernGent

Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddyDomP

Can someone give me some idea's on punishing my sub. She does very little wrong but still seems to desire me to punish or be disappointed and to treat her poorly for it. My biggest issue with punishment is what she would feel punishing would also take away from me. Like not letting her have my cock, or not licking her. Any help would be appreciated.

Assuming you both like the punishment routine then treat it as a bit of fun.

Where you don't want to expend the energy going through daft games then punish her in a way that will mean she won't waste your time again.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to DaddyDomP)

Post #: 25

RE: Punishing My Sub - 6/19/2009 12:46:17 PM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

I think the big disconnect was in using the word punishment rather than play/kinky activities.

Communicate with one another more. Not always easy, but ultimately rewarding.

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to babygirl1065)

Post #: 26

RE: Punishing My Sub - 6/19/2009 1:36:06 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

OP, bg - have you discussed this between you? Is she allowed to simply ask for a spanking if she wants one? Doms don't want a sub to deliberately disobey to get their needs met, but they often forget to give a way so she can get them met. Around here, I find wandering out nude, draping myself over his lap is usually effective. He's fine to put down the paper and spend ten minutes reddening my ass when I need it. All I have to do is ask.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 27

RE: Punishing My Sub - 6/19/2009 2:01:03 PM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
Around here, I find wandering out nude, draping myself over his lap is usually effective. He's fine to put down the paper and spend ten minutes reddening my ass when I need it. All I have to do is ask.

ROFL Des. Simple, direct, and to the point.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 28

RE: Punishing My Sub - 6/19/2009 3:17:50 PM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: onlyfreelycaged

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

This is called manipulation. I find the best punishment for this is the complete withdrawal of my attention - beyond sitting her in a corner for a half hour or so. After she's "done her time", I tend to find something to do that doesn't require her participation for awhile longer....

I really don't like being manipulated; it's the tail trying to wag the dog - not the natural order of things! Good news is that once you make a firm stand, it doesn't tend to reoccur - subs reeeeeeally like attention.

Focus.

that sounds like punishing *after* the punishment. once the punishment is done, it's over... if you contintiue to inflict things on the poor sub, it won't help. she'll just assume that when you punish here it's not over..

You can make that over-simplified argument but I'm gonna assume you don't have intimate detail of me or how my past and present relationship dynamics function....

So consider this:

1) I REEEEEALLY don't like being manipulated...!

2) If there's a (rare) need to punish, I prefer cornertime - the withdrawal of attention.

3) Cornertime has a purpose for both of us. She gets to reflect on her actions and since I only punish if her actions actually make me angry, the length of cornertime equates to what I need to cool back down.

4) Manipulation isn't just any ole offence! So I should leave her sitting there all day - 'cause that's about how much cool down time I'd need?

No! So she'll do her half hour or so but we won't be talking about it straight after in this instance because I'd still be semi-pissed. And the lawn might still need mowing or a gutter cleared of leaf litter etc - general things that need doing anyway and which she's not required.

5) Read #1) again.

I've only got one punishment but not all offences are equal. Manipulation is betrayal without a third party involved, so it's getting close to the worst she can do....

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to onlyfreelycaged)

Post #: 29

RE: Punishing My Sub - 6/19/2009 4:43:03 PM

Masterdarkone29

Posts: 23
Joined: 6/17/2008
Status: offline

Have you thought about blindfolding her and cuffing her and making her kneel in a dark closet till you have need of her or are ready to remove her from the dark setting where she is waiting on you.

Just a thought.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 30

RE: Punishing My Sub - 6/19/2009 10:03:20 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
Around here, I find wandering out nude, draping myself over his lap is usually effective. He's fine to put down the paper and spend ten minutes reddening my ass when I need it. All I have to do is ask.

ROFL Des. Simple, direct, and to the point.

Takes less time and doesn't involve deliberate disobedience in the hopes he might feel like doing this as a result. That kind of roundabout, everybody's talking at cross purposes stuff can put a downer on the whole day.

But I'm always surprised by dominants who don't figure out a way for the sub to get their needs met and then are shocked when things go wrong. I will say it is a nice surprise to have a dom not start a post saying how he needs to punish more, be more hurtful, give her less and less of what she needs to be happy and then won't listen when people explain that this is why the relationship is failing.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 31

RE: Punishing My Sub - 6/19/2009 11:58:54 PM

onlyfreelycaged

Posts: 254
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

quote:

ORIGINAL: onlyfreelycaged

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

This is called manipulation. I find the best punishment for this is the complete withdrawal of my attention - beyond sitting her in a corner for a half hour or so. After she's "done her time", I tend to find something to do that doesn't require her participation for awhile longer....

I really don't like being manipulated; it's the tail trying to wag the dog - not the natural order of things! Good news is that once you make a firm stand, it doesn't tend to reoccur - subs reeeeeeally like attention.

Focus.

that sounds like punishing *after* the punishment. once the punishment is done, it's over... if you contintiue to inflict things on the poor sub, it won't help. she'll just assume that when you punish here it's not over..

You can make that over-simplified argument but I'm gonna assume you don't have intimate detail of me or how my past and present relationship dynamics function....

So consider this:

1) I REEEEEALLY don't like being manipulated...!

2) If there's a (rare) need to punish, I prefer cornertime - the withdrawal of attention.

3) Cornertime has a purpose for both of us. She gets to reflect on her actions and since I only punish if her actions actually make me angry, the length of cornertime equates to what I need to cool back down.

4) Manipulation isn't just any ole offence! So I should leave her sitting there all day - 'cause that's about how much cool down time I'd need?

No! So she'll do her half hour or so but we won't be talking about it straight after in this instance because I'd still be semi-pissed. And the lawn might still need mowing or a gutter cleared of leaf litter etc - general things that need doing anyway and which she's not required.

5) Read #1) again.

I've only got one punishment but not all offences are equal. Manipulation is betrayal without a third party involved, so it's getting close to the worst she can do....

Focus.

If you're going to sulk about something, then there's no good reason to punish someone. The sulking is more then enough punishment for anything.

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 32

RE: Punishing My Sub - 6/20/2009 2:17:23 AM

NihilusZero

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: onlyfreelycaged

If you're going to sulk about something, then there's no good reason to punish someone. The sulking is more then enough punishment for anything.

I fail to see how arguing that someone cannot (with "good reason"...whatever that means) punish in a manner where there are initial and secondary consequences coupled together makes any sense at all. Furthermore, to argue that a dominant should alter their means of punishment, when they've been honest about it, based on a presupposed time of acceptable expiration undermines the ability of the relationship to regain balance.

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
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(in reply to onlyfreelycaged)

Post #: 33

RE: Punishing My Sub - 6/20/2009 3:59:45 AM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: onlyfreelycaged

If you're going to sulk about something, then there's no good reason to punish someone. The sulking is more then enough punishment for anything.

Looks like I was wrong, you apparently do have intimate knowledge of myself and relationship dynamics....

And you've now made my "no more attention" list. *gasp*
I trust you'll find yourself a suitable corner to park it while I work off my chronic sulking by checking the house for electronic surveillance devices.

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to onlyfreelycaged)

Post #: 34

RE: Punishing My Sub - 6/20/2009 4:54:48 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

The problem here is that you folks aren't addressing the issue. She needs more play than she's getting and she's unhappy and acting out as a result. So do you think punishing her for being unhappy at having her needs unmet is going to make her happy to have her needs unmet?

Wouldn't work for me.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 35

RE: Punishing My Sub - 6/20/2009 5:33:28 AM

NorthernGent

Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

The problem here is that you folks aren't addressing the issue. She needs more play than she's getting and she's unhappy and acting out as a result.

Where she's not getting what she thinks she's entitled to then she needs to communicate it rather than 'act out'. Where she thinks she can 'act out' as a means of having her whims attended to then there is a dispute over which one of them is leading. The issue first and foremost is this: she hasn't quite grasped that she is not the boss. Until she does this then he can't follow her around when she 'acts out' or as I would put it 'challenge his authority' as that underlying principle that defines the relationship is disregarded and he will set himself up for chaos.

This boss believes in balance and compromise but where she is going to challenge my authority by 'acting out' then those principles go out of the window and where it takes punishing her to help her understand that I'm leading then that is what I'll have to do. Until she understands this basic principle then I'm afraid she's going to have to go to the boss for help - I like being boss - the boss doesn't follow her around when she's 'acting out'. Once we're back on track then the normal service of balance and compromise will be resumed.

When she starts communicating her issues then we'll have a good old chat and I'll see what I can do to compromise; while she's 'acting out' she's going to get nothing out of me and the longer it goes on the more I'll have no option but to exercise a harsh lesson.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 36

RE: Punishing My Sub - 6/20/2009 7:12:47 AM

KateyCaine

Posts: 274
Joined: 5/7/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

To keep count of how many times she got the letter wrong while playing the alphabet game add a closepin. If one shakes off, put on two in its place.

Mmmmmm...... DEFINITELY sounds good to me :) (Mmmmmm...clothespins......yeah......)

_____________________________

Proud to be owned and cherished by Master Charles (Gauge)

i wear His collar on my heart; and wherever i am, i know He is with me.

His love and my devotion and service to Him are stronger than leather or steel.

(in reply to pyroaquatic)

Post #: 37

RE: Punishing My Sub - 6/20/2009 9:24:00 AM

sweetgirlserves

Posts: 373
Joined: 4/14/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

The problem here is that you folks aren't addressing the issue. She needs more play than she's getting and she's unhappy and acting out as a result.

Where she's not getting what she thinks she's entitled to then she needs to communicate it rather than 'act out'. Where she thinks she can 'act out' as a means of having her whims attended to then there is a dispute over which one of them is leading. The issue first and foremost is this: she hasn't quite grasped that she is not the boss. Until she does this then he can't follow her around when she 'acts out' or as I would put it 'challenge his authority' as that underlying principle that defines the relationship is disregarded and he will set himself up for chaos.

This boss believes in balance and compromise but where she is going to challenge my authority by 'acting out' then those principles go out of the window and where it takes punishing her to help her understand that I'm leading then that is what I'll have to do. Until she understands this basic principle then I'm afraid she's going to have to go to the boss for help - I like being boss - the boss doesn't follow her around when she's 'acting out'. Once we're back on track then the normal service of balance and compromise will be resumed.

When she starts communicating her issues then we'll have a good old chat and I'll see what I can do to compromise; while she's 'acting out' she's going to get nothing out of me and the longer it goes on the more I'll have no option but to exercise a harsh lesson.

This is a really good post, and is one i can relate to from personal experience. The sub (babygirl-something) posted above saying she sent her dom here because he is new and she want him to get ideas and thoughts from other people. She also said something to the effect that she does not tell him what she wants.

Something my last Master was teaching me, and something i still have to learn more, is the difference between topping from the bottom, vs. communicating appropriately, meaning communicating from the proper 'place' as slave/sub to your Master/dom, as the authority in your life. There are wants and there are needs... needs to me, being things that you really struggle if you try to live without them. (half-ass definition there, but hopefully you get the gist). For a sub/slave, or at least for me *smiles*, i need to feel the power of the man over me. I need it, and i don't often misbehave, so its not like there are tons of opportunities to punish me. It is a very humbling thing to go kneel before your Master and tell him what you are feeling or what you feel you need, and then have him guide you through that. Sometimes it is not only the 'new dom' that needs to learn to be more 'masterly', but also the slave/sub who learns to grow deeper in her submission.

~sgs

_____________________________

"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." ~Maya Angelou

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 38

RE: Punishing My Sub - 6/20/2009 10:24:18 AM

NorthernGent

Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetgirlserves

meaning communicating from the proper 'place' as slave/sub to your Master/dom, as the authority in your life.

I simply couldn't be in a relationship without open and honest comunication: a) the depth of the relationship would be limited b) the relationship would be a sham.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetgirlserves

i don't often misbehave, so its not like there are tons of opportunities to punish me.

Punishing someone you care about (or anyone for that matter) isn't an easy thing to do. Sometimes you want to reach out and make the punishment less severe - but I'm a believer in the saying that sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetgirlserves

Sometimes it is not only the 'new dom' that needs to learn to be more 'masterly', but also the slave/sub who learns to grow deeper in her submission.

I'd agree SGS - takes two to tango etc :-)

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to sweetgirlserves)

Post #: 39

RE: Punishing My Sub - 6/20/2009 1:43:40 PM

Andalusite

Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline

One thing I really am happy with about my Master is that he's very secure in his dominance, and I don't have to be concerned that he might take a request or suggestion as undermining or manipulating or topping from the bottom. I try to be very respectful, and communicate openly, but sometimes that communication is "I'm confused about this, or I can't figure out what I need, or I'm worried this might come out the wrong way." We're still new enough to each other that I can't always express myself as well as I'd wish to, but he's patient with me. He wants to know both my needs *and* my wants, he wants my emotional transparency - he is free to say no, and I try to make sure that they don't come across as demands.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 6/20/2009 1:45:31 PM >

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 40

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