RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer

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thishereboi -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/24/2009 6:21:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda quote: ORIGINAL: housesub4you Normally, I would think she was a little out of line. However, the General did address all the males as Senator and she was the only Senator not addressed by her title. Got a cite for that? Not that I don't trust you, but I'd like to see it for myself. That would certainly change things in my mind.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/24/2009 7:46:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda OK, strong words. I don't know if I've ever in my life used either word to refer to a woman, and I certainly wouldn't in this case. But the fact that I wouldn't use those words to insult a woman doesn't mean i agree that using them is automatically a sexist insult, any more than calling a man a "dick" or a "bastard" is a sexist insult. I have used bitch as an insult as well as a compliment. Depends on the situation and bitch in question. I agree that it isn't automatically a sexist insult, but I can also see where someone might see it that way. That's kind of the camp I fall into, as well. I'm not a woman, so it's easy for me be all objective and everything, and pontificate about how it's just an ordinary, run of the mill insult. But if the majority of women consider it an inherent insult, I need to take into consideration that they're arriving at that opinion from a point of view - and a set of experiences - that I can never fully understand. So I'm going to be inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt, and defer to their definition of the term.

ShaktiSama -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/25/2009 6:56:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Starbuck09 ShaktiSama the reason people are using bitch and cunt is because they belive the senator was in the wrong and as she is a woman these are feminine slurs. The very fact that she is being attacked as a woman is a giant red flag, in my opinion, for what the real underlying issue is. Plain and simple, it's hatred and resentment of power in the hands of a woman: all women who have been voted into office face this sort of discrimination on a daily basis in the USA. It's deplorable and repugnant, childish and barbarous. The fact that you believe someone is "in the wrong" in a very minor public disagreement with another individual, is absolutely no reason at all to start hurling ugly names inspired by gender hate. "Bitch", "cunt", "cunt-face" and a lot of sarcastic references to women in positions of power ("Queen", "empress", blah blah blah) are being leveled at Senator Boxer at the moment by a lot of people in the blogosphere and on this thread. The question is--why? When you dislike President Obama's policies or his personal manner, do you call him a "nigger"? If not, why is it acceptable to attack Senator Boxer as a woman if it is not acceptable to attack President Obama as a black male? Personally, I consider this whole foo-for-ah to be heavily orchestrated political distraction. Senator Boxer is being attacked not because she wants to be called "Senator", but because if the political right didn't scream and wave their arms around wildly and frantically, people might have noticed what the hearing was actually ABOUT: namely, the condition of the city of New Orleans in the wake of Katrina.

Starbuck09 -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/25/2009 7:04:32 AM)
No people do not [often] refer to Obama as a nigger but they do regularly refer to him as a bastard a dickhead a wanker e.t.c. She is not being attacked as a women she is being attacked because her behaviour is seen as being childish and unacceptable. I have not refered to her by any such names but if people wish to that is fair enough it is not sexist to use gender orientated expletives. Sexism in the american work place might be rife i have no experience of it, this however has nothing to do with sexism either way. It was a breach of protocol that was unneccesary and churlish that's it.

sirsholly -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/25/2009 7:50:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bootlckr57 I know the right wing airwaves were a flutter with this. What do you think? I think dressing down a General for calling her “Ma’am” was kind of hot. i think she needs to get a grip

thishereboi -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/25/2009 4:46:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama quote: ORIGINAL: Starbuck09 ShaktiSama the reason people are using bitch and cunt is because they belive the senator was in the wrong and as she is a woman these are feminine slurs. The very fact that she is being attacked as a woman is a giant red flag, in my opinion, for what the real underlying issue is. Plain and simple, it's hatred and resentment of power in the hands of a woman: all women who have been voted into office face this sort of discrimination on a daily basis in the USA. It's deplorable and repugnant, childish and barbarous. The fact that you believe someone is "in the wrong" in a very minor public disagreement with another individual, is absolutely no reason at all to start hurling ugly names inspired by gender hate. "Bitch", "cunt", "cunt-face" and a lot of sarcastic references to women in positions of power ("Queen", "empress", blah blah blah) are being leveled at Senator Boxer at the moment by a lot of people in the blogosphere and on this thread. The question is--why? When you dislike President Obama's policies or his personal manner, do you call him a "nigger"? If not, why is it acceptable to attack Senator Boxer as a woman if it is not acceptable to attack President Obama as a black male? Personally, I consider this whole foo-for-ah to be heavily orchestrated political distraction. Senator Boxer is being attacked not because she wants to be called "Senator", but because if the political right didn't scream and wave their arms around wildly and frantically, people might have noticed what the hearing was actually ABOUT: namely, the condition of the city of New Orleans in the wake of Katrina. My crack at her had absolutely nothing to do with her being a women in power. It was her attitude towards the General. Now if it is true that he never calls male senators "sir" then I would change my position, but I have not seen any proof of that. As far as what people call Obama, I see a big difference between calling someone a bitch and calling someone a nigger.

kajirusilk -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/25/2009 10:17:00 PM)
"Attacked as a Woman"????? i've seen the tapes and basically Senator Boxer threw a hissy fit. End of story. Why is it that Women who do not agree with the radical left liberal agenda are not only attacked but publicly villified for days on end (Sarry Pallin, Ms Prejean, Ann Coulter, Nancy Reagan, etc. etc.) are not defended by the same folks who are mortally offended when anything, even mild criticism, is said of Senator Boxer, Nancy Pelosi, Hilary Clinton, etc. BTW even Hilary was savagely attacked by the radical left wingers when she was running for the Democratic Presidential nomination. Yet the lame stream media and the radical left, who previously "adored" Hilary said nothing! Respectfully, silk

Loki45 -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/25/2009 10:30:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama ...especially when the person who was in error in this situation was MALE Actually, the true error was with Boxer. If she had a problem with his chosen manner of address, she should be adult enough to speak to him about it in private. Not calling him out in the middle of the conversation, on camera. To do that as she did, she's simply grandstanding for the pure sake of throwing her weight around. Not only did she grandstand, but she interrupted him. He got a handful of words out in what he was saying and she blatantly cut him off. THAT is rude. And I agree with what some others here have said. He's worked FAR harder for his title than she has. He has seen and done things she can't possibly imagine.

Loki45 -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/25/2009 10:57:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aidan If somebody was to address the president as "Mr. Obama", most of us would think it a fairly gouache thing to do and would not fault the president for correcting the speaker. The only time I've seen "Mr. Obama" used was in a news story. And in that context, it's correct to say "Mr. Obama." quote: ORIGINAL: aidan The same principle applies here. She's not "Ms. Boxer" or "Mrs. Boxer" or, as the use of Ma'am implies, "Madame Boxer". She's Senator Boxer. Senator is her title. There's nothing wrong with her expecting to be addressed as such by other officials in formal situations. Boxer did, however, call Condi Rice "Madam Secretary." That would seem to imply that Madam or Ma'am is indeed an acceptable term to use.

VegasGreens -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/26/2009 12:23:56 AM)
This is one more example of California having some of the most out of touch politicians in the nation.

kansas64 -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/26/2009 12:47:07 AM)
your kidding, I assume that you really don't need an explanation to that question.

NovelApproach -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/26/2009 8:50:42 AM)
A couple of points I thought I should add to this, in no particular order: I can't seem to find proof that the General called the male senators by title (though I DO remember seeing it), but I CAN confirm that the Army's pamphlet on protocol indicates that even in social conversation with US Senators, they should be referred to as "Senator"(screen shot here). For comparison, the former president frequently told reporters and other personnel ON CAMERA who called him "sir" on a number of occasions that they must address him as "Mr. President" or "President Bush." No one ever gave a shit. On the other hand, I had a roomie in college whose parents were both doctors - I remember how different the reactions were when each of them would request to be called "Dr". With the father, basically people would just say "Oh, I'm sorry - Dr So-and-So" in a polite tone. With the mother, more often than not, people would say something like "Oh, gee, of course Doctor, hahaha" with a fake-worried look on their face and an exaggerated politeness in their voice. I have to wonder how many times that day, and how many times since taking office, Senator Boxer has been addressed differently than her male colleagues. I strongly object to gendered slurs being used here of all places - it's disrespectful to the Doms, and is really just poor behavior that demonstrates an unimagniative vocabulary. Lastly, HUGE kudos to Aidan and ShaktiSama for your intelligent posts. Nail. Head. Srsly. I <3 you both. ETA: I LOVE how the word 'Senator' is in scare quotes in the thread title. Real classy, that.

Loki45 -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/26/2009 8:56:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NovelApproach I strongly object to gendered slurs being used here of all places - it's disrespectful to the Doms, and is really just poor behavior that demonstrates an unimagniative vocabulary. If "bitch" is a 'gendered slur' then so is asshole when used against a man. The fact is, she was being a rude bitch. Not only did she call him out on it in front of a room full of people (not to mention the thousands watching it on TV), but she also cut him off mid-sentence. If one does not wish to be a rude bitch, one should not act like a rude bitch.

ShaktiSama -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/26/2009 10:59:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Loki45 Actually, the true error was with Boxer. If she had a problem with his chosen manner of address, she should be adult enough to speak to him about it in private. It has nothing to do with being adult. HE was in the wrong. Period. Jeez, someone has already posted the link to his own institution's protocol--when will you people accept that he was plainly and simply in error? If he had been addressing the Senator in an inappropriate and unprofessional manner in private, I'm sure she would have spoken to him about it in private. Unfortunately, he was addressing her in an inappropriate and unprofessional manner IN PUBLIC. Public errors are best corrected in public. Correcting them in privacy is a mistake on a number of levels. As for your argument about the use of "Madame Secretary"--"Madame Secretary" is NOT the generic "Ma'am". It is the female titled equivalent of "Mister President", which is the appropriate form of address for those serving at the top of the executive branch of government. As for what Walsh has seen that Boxer has not? He has spent his life fighting a certain kind of battles to be sure; but she has spent her life fighting another kind. No, she probably hasn't been in a firefight that involved bullets, it's true: on the other hand, Walsh has spent the majority of his career stationed either in the USA or in areas that need building and reconstruction, according to his bio. He's an engineering officer, not a combat specialist. He is currently in command of the Mississippi River Commission, which is why he was speaking to that committee in the first place. So although Senator Boxer probably hasn't been shot at much? Neither has General Walsh. And I would bloody guarantee that HE has never been refused a job for which he was qualified based on his biological sex. But SHE certainly has. As for what she has earned? She has been working on a career in politics for over thirty years, and seven different organizations have named her a champion on human rights. She has been honored multiple times in the Senate for her various achievements--I'd say that her laurels compare more than adequately with his two Bronze Stars for meritorious service. As for how hard she was worked to achieve and sustain a position as a Senator? I would urge you to look at the number of women in the history of the human race who have ever managed to do so--and then tell me how easy it must be to earn and to hold a seat in the Senate as a woman, especially as a woman who actually fights for unpopular causes like women's rights, the environment, etc.. By contrast, gee--I wonder how many generals have been MEN? [:'(] Personally, I think that a whole lot of people need to take a step back, and get a WAY better grip on reality. Not every man in uniform is a line officer fresh from brutal combat, and not every woman in power is an Uppity Bitch Who Doesn't Know Her Place. Besides which, expressing this kind of bile-soaked hatred of a woman in power who simply requested the respect that she has earned and to which she is entitled is a little too much irony to take in this particular forum. Wow, a woman who demanded respect from a man! In public! And he was military man! With stars and spaghetti on his uniform and everything! Wow, the universe must be coming to a bloody end, eh?

Loki45 -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/26/2009 11:57:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama It has nothing to do with being adult. HE was in the wrong. Period. Jeez, someone has already posted the link to his own institution's protocol--when will you people accept that he was plainly and simply in error? Irrelevant. Her error was worse. He didn't get more than 4 words out before she cut him off in front of the NATION and corrected him. A mature ADULT would have waited until a private moment presented itself. An adult wouldn't interrupt. She did not act like an adult. quote: ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama If he had been addressing the Senator in an inappropriate and unprofessional manner in private, I'm sure she would have spoken to him about it in private. Unfortunately, he was addressing her in an inappropriate and unprofessional manner IN PUBLIC. Public errors are best corrected in public. Correcting them in privacy is a mistake on a number of levels. You're just flat out wrong. The time to correct someone is NOT when cameras are rolling and NOT when you have to interrupt them to do it. Doing it that way just made her look like a petty bitch. quote: ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama As for your argument about the use of "Madame Secretary"--"Madame Secretary" is NOT the generic "Ma'am". It is the female titled equivalent of "Mister President", which is the appropriate form of address for those serving at the top of the executive branch of government. Perhaps you should read the post I was replying to when I said that before you jump up on down on that point so irrationally. As for the rest of your post, I'm not even going to address it. You equate being in politics with being a commander of MILITARY forces. You'll never see the appropriate side of it. I saw earlier in the thread how you immediately threw down the "misogeny" card because people called her a bitch. Sounds to me like you're battling your own misandry.

Sybilla -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/26/2009 11:57:52 AM)
I agree with ShaktiSama, particularly as to the irony of much of this discussion. She wanted to be referred to as "Senator" and she asked the man to do so. I don't think it matters what he called anyone else or that she ought to have forgone her own preference until a later, private opportunity - her request was appropriate and she made it politely. As long as those conditions are met, I don't think any person can be faulted for asking for what she (or he) wants. If Senator Boxer were a man, I don't believe this would have provoked as much uproar or scrutiny. It's a non-issue.

Loki45 -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/26/2009 12:07:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sybilla She wanted to be referred to as "Senator" and she asked the man to do so. No, she cut him off mid-sentence and demanded he do so. There is a difference. quote: ORIGINAL: Sybilla her request was appropriate and she made it politely. On what planet is interrupting someone polite? quote: ORIGINAL: Sybilla If Senator Boxer were a man, I don't believe this would have provoked as much uproar or scrutiny. It's a non-issue. I think it provoked the uproar because a simple youtube search will show scored of other incidents in which she was a petty bitch. This is merely a continuation of that. Were she anyone else and not a senator, the General would and should have jumped her ass. But since he could not, he had to take the interruption.

thishereboi -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/26/2009 12:07:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Loki45 I saw earlier in the thread how you immediately threw down the "misogeny" card because people called her a bitch. That's ok, I have been called an agist on this forum because I have no desire to have a relationship with someone young enough to be my kid. I guess I can deal with it if someone throws a "misogeny" card at me too.

Loki45 -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/26/2009 12:20:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi That's ok, I have been called an agist on this forum because I have no desire to have a relationship with someone young enough to be my kid. I guess I can deal with it if someone throws a "misogeny" card at me too. I know. I've been called many things for my beliefs. Funny how we're supposed to be so nice and nurturing and understanding and tolerant these days when the same courtesy is not offered to us. Yeah, I've been called many things. So I own 'em all. Doesn't matter what you're called if the one using the label doesn't matter in the first place.

Sybilla -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/26/2009 12:52:26 PM)
*Sen. Boxer:* Well, why has it been delayed? *Gen. Walsh:* Uh... ma'am... at the uh... at LACPR is a... *Sen. Boxer:* I don't - you know, do me a favour - could you say "Senator" instead of ma'am? It's just a thing ...I worked so hard to get that title. So I'd appreciate it. Yes. Thank you. She asked him, stated she'd appreciate it and she thanked him. It's true that if rather than saying "...do me a favour - could you...?" she'd asked him to excuse her for interrupting it would have been even more polite, but the fact that she didn't doesn't make her statement rude or demanding, either. Now I'm scrutinizing a non-issue. Nevermind.

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