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RE: Banned Friendships - 6/20/2009 11:36:28 AM

trappedinamuseum

Posts: 5066
Joined: 8/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Besides the friend being detrimental in some way, the only other valid reason I would have would be isolation during the training period.

I find I have a different experience with this. If, during some serious training, he wanted to isolate me from friends and family, I would have an extraordinarily hard time adjusting to that, and overall, think it would be detrimental to both my training and our relationship. I am one of those people that talks to their parents everyday, or every other day. I talk to my siblings two or three times a week, and text or chat with some very close friends every day. The conversations with my family members keeps me sane - they are my link to everything back home, and my friends are my sounding board for what I am going through at the time, mostly because they are lifestyle friends.

He has never asked me to cut off contact with anyone, though if he knows that someone who I am talking to is making me unhappy or stressed out, he encourages me to discuss it with them. He hasn't tried to restrict who I talk to, but he does try to ensure that I only surround myself with healthy relationships.

*note* Orion, I am not disagreeing with you, I just chose to quote you because it was the most succinct example of what I was looking for.

_____________________________

"You're gonna catch a cold, from the ice inside you soul.
Don't come back for me.
Don't come back at all" - Jar of Hearts

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

Post #: 21

RE: Banned Friendships - 6/20/2009 11:43:36 AM

ThatDamnedPanda

Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici
well what would be a reason to isolate a submissive from seemingly normal yet vanilla friends or for that matter other friends in the life be they D or s? The only answer I can come up with is insecurity---am I way off base?

I'd like some enlightenment...

Well... my ex didn't exactly ban all friendships, or even specific friendships, but she did severely limit the amount of time I spent interacting with anyone who wasn't her. It wasn't an issue of insecurity, though. She was just very much into absolute control, and she wanted me to be totally focused on her. Honestly, if she could have designed a perfect world, she would quite possibly have been the only human being I ever had any contact with at all, but obviously that wasn't even remotely practical on any conceivable level. However, in her eyes everything short of that was a compromise she just had to grudgingly make for the sake of pragmatism. She settled for simply limiting the amount of time I was allowed to be out of the house without her, and adjusting those limitations based on how attentive and devoted to her she felt me to be. Being allowed to spend more time with friends was used as a reward, one that had to be constantly earned.

In all honesty, I had a pretty tough time getting my mind wrapped around it at first, but as we eased into that pattern, I actually came to like it. I miss... well, perhaps not that particular protocol, but the mindset behind it, the obsession with total control and objectification. It wouldn't work for everyone, but for whatever reason or reasons, it worked very well in the way she and I related to each other.

_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 22

RE: Banned Friendships - 6/20/2009 12:07:38 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
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With no good reason or foundation for the isolation... at best, insecurity... at worst, covering his/her ass.

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No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

Post #: 23

RE: Banned Friendships - 6/20/2009 12:29:26 PM

susie

Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

it is also not uncommon for a Master of a slave to isolate them from all former friends, family, acquaintances, etc. during a period of training or conditioning, as mentioned by Orion. this is what my Master did to me for more than a year in the early part of our union. afterward the people allowed into my life (even those known previously) and the relationships i had with those people was kept strictly under my Master's control. some were permanently banned. and even for those who meet his approval and who are generally positive or neutral influences, my contact with them is kept to a minimum. this is because my Master does not want a slave who has a life outside of a life with him...he does not want me mentally shifting from one world to another. He does not want the priorities in my life confused. He is my life, he is my priority, and the fact that i no longer have any close ties to others helps significantly to maintain this.

For me this would have been a total deal breaker. My family are very important to me as are his to him. I speak to my parents every day. There is no way that this makes me serve him less in anyway. Personally I find the idea of such isolation for such a long period dangerous. But then that is just my opinion.

(in reply to daddysprop247)

Post #: 24

RE: Banned Friendships - 6/20/2009 12:31:34 PM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline

Isn't one of the early signs of an abuser being isolated from family and friends? I can see steering a person from toxic relationships, but cutting them off from family? That is some kool aid that I would not make anyone drink.

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]

(in reply to susie)

Post #: 25

RE: Banned Friendships - 6/20/2009 12:32:44 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
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In my family, they were toxic relationships! lol I isolated myself!

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Post #: 26

RE: Banned Friendships - 6/20/2009 2:32:41 PM

Andalusite

Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
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When my Master and I were dating, before I made a commitment to him, I made a point of introducing him to as many of my friends as possible. It's important to me for the people I care about to get along decently with each other. If he had a problem with a specific person, even if he couldn't articulate the reason, I'd be willing to comply, though. When I had a submissive, it disturbed me to be around one of his friends, even though I had previously been fine with him, and he hadn't done anything overtly antisocial toward me. Several months later, when he came along to a group event, I felt fine around him again. It turned out he had been doing drugs when I felt icky around him, and had recently gone through rehab.

(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 27

RE: Banned Friendships - 6/20/2009 2:51:30 PM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline

As they were with my girl, but they would guilt her into doing things. I put a stop to that, but then again I am just a meany abuser ;). Sometimes those that surrender, do so for a reason. Sometimes part of that reason is they realize they need someone else to set boundries and make decisions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

In my family, they were toxic relationships! lol I isolated myself!

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 28

RE: Banned Friendships - 6/20/2009 3:09:37 PM

Toppingfrmbottom

Posts: 6528
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline

I think it's all about what works for those individually involved. Now I can understand where friends and family may feel hurt at the percieved withdrawing of said person, if they were one to talk to them all the time, but if withdrawing from most of the real world works for them two go for it I say.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Isn't one of the early signs of an abuser being isolated from family and friends? I can see steering a person from toxic relationships, but cutting them off from family? That is some kool aid that I would not make anyone drink.

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Post #: 29

RE: Banned Friendships - 6/20/2009 3:46:31 PM

onlyfreelycaged

Posts: 254
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

In my family, they were toxic relationships! lol I isolated myself!

I'll do that one day..

(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 30

RE: Banned Friendships - 6/20/2009 3:49:17 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: onlyfreelycaged

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

In my family, they were toxic relationships! lol I isolated myself!

I'll do that one day..

I have never regreted it! Holiday's may be a bit less interesting... but every day is way, way better! lol

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to onlyfreelycaged)

Post #: 31

RE: Banned Friendships - 6/20/2009 5:03:23 PM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

One of the things I am always intrigued about is the "banned friendship" aspect that I see all too often in this life--now I get it if the friend or relative creates drama or destruction in the submissive, but banning contact with friends, relatives because... well what would be a reason to isolate a submissive from seemingly normal yet vanilla friends or for that matter other friends in the life be they D or s? The only answer I can come up with is insecurity---am I way off base?

I'd like some enlightenment...

i think isolation is one of the tenets of abuse not consensual use?
If it's consensual that what the hell.... hanging off a rope down a fifty foot drop medieval well isn't to my taste but each to their own...

_____________________________

Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 32

RE: Banned Friendships - 6/21/2009 5:08:26 AM

Drakontos

Posts: 167
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

One of the things I am always intrigued about is the "banned friendship" aspect that I see all too often in this life--now I get it if the friend or relative creates drama or destruction in the submissive, but banning contact with friends, relatives because... well what would be a reason to isolate a submissive from seemingly normal yet vanilla friends or for that matter other friends in the life be they D or s? The only answer I can come up with is insecurity---am I way off base?

I'd like some enlightenment...

When I collared zaphira, all her relationships with others were banned for a year. No contact with family, no contact with friends, no contact outside the relationship at all; unless it was instigated by me and overseen by me.
My reasons for this are as complex as our relationship is; reasons that I know from experience, are not understood and are not accepted by the mainstream.
After a year, zaphira was given the choice of whether or not she wished to return to those relationships. She chose not to. You would have to ask her for the reasons.

_____________________________

Drakontos
zaphira

Live with honor; serve with grace and beauty

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 33

RE: Banned Friendships - 6/21/2009 5:42:50 AM

CaringandReal

Posts: 1397
Joined: 2/15/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

it is also not uncommon for a Master of a slave to isolate them from all former friends, family, acquaintances, etc. during a period of training or conditioning, as mentioned by Orion. this is what my Master did to me for more than a year in the early part of our union. afterward the people allowed into my life (even those known previously) and the relationships i had with those people was kept strictly under my Master's control. some were permanently banned. and even for those who meet his approval and who are generally positive or neutral influences, my contact with them is kept to a minimum. this is because my Master does not want a slave who has a life outside of a life with him...he does not want me mentally shifting from one world to another. He does not want the priorities in my life confused. He is my life, he is my priority, and the fact that i no longer have any close ties to others helps significantly to maintain this.

For me this would have been a total deal breaker. My family are very important to me as are his to him. I speak to my parents every day. There is no way that this makes me serve him less in anyway. Personally I find the idea of such isolation for such a long period dangerous. But then that is just my opinion.

It is potentially quite dangerous in this circumstance: if he dies. If the slave is isolated or alienated from anybody who could give her love and support or just simple friendship at a time when her primary life and reason for living is suddenly pulled out from under her feet, she's going to have a very hard time in the years to come and experience a lot more pain in her now-comfortless and friendless world than she otherwise would have. Just like you try to have someone available to take care of a beloved pet or find it a good home if something happens to you, I think a caring owner will think beyond his current happiness and try to imagine and provide for a worst-case eventuality for his slave. I've even known some some slaves who, in the limited spheres in which they can influence outcomes, try to do this for their owners.

It's hard to think realistically about the the fact that we will be dead someday, but isn't it even harder to think of your slave sobbing broken-hearted in the now-empty house, with no loving caring arms to hold her or words to comfort her? If he or she is devoted to you, the pain won't magically end after the funeral. It will sear this person's soul for years.

(in reply to susie)

Post #: 34

RE: Banned Friendships - 6/21/2009 6:21:30 AM

CatdeMedici

Posts: 2257
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline

I could not be more with you on this one C&R, which is why I'm mystified---a sub/slave willingly denounces friends and family on a "command"--said Dominant dies, said sub gets in a car accident or worse--is there an expectation that family will just freely come to the rescue? I think not in most cases---or the relationship ends---where does one go?

I quite frankly find it a crock of shit, I don't care of its for training or whatever the transluscent reason is--its unrealistic and IMHO inconsiderate.

But then, if it floats your boat, rock on, just don't expect a rally of support if something happens--

_____________________________

I am the Cat, holder of the whip and chair.

"Let's see-whips, dips, chains, chips, yep sounds like a party to Me!"

(in reply to CaringandReal)

Post #: 35

RE: Banned Friendships - 6/21/2009 8:29:27 AM

daddysprop247

Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CaringandReal

It is potentially quite dangerous in this circumstance: if he dies. If the slave is isolated or alienated from anybody who could give her love and support or just simple friendship at a time when her primary life and reason for living is suddenly pulled out from under her feet, she's going to have a very hard time in the years to come and experience a lot more pain in her now-comfortless and friendless world than she otherwise would have. Just like you try to have someone available to take care of a beloved pet or find it a good home if something happens to you, I think a caring owner will think beyond his current happiness and try to imagine and provide for a worst-case eventuality for his slave. I've even known some some slaves who, in the limited spheres in which they can influence outcomes, try to do this for their owners.

It's hard to think realistically about the the fact that we will be dead someday, but isn't it even harder to think of your slave sobbing broken-hearted in the now-empty house, with no loving caring arms to hold her or words to comfort her? If he or she is devoted to you, the pain won't magically end after the funeral. It will sear this person's soul for years.

personally, as a slave who is focused on and entirely devoted to her Master, it would be rather counter-productive for me to focus on "what ifs" or "what happens next." if that is anyone's concern, it is my Master's, not mine. however i will say this...i do know that my Master has taken careful measures to see that i am cared for if something should happen to him. but this means nothing to me whatsoever, because the reality is if he were gone, life would lose all meaning, purpose and value for me. i would only be a hollow shell, and i doubt i would be able to keep my promise to my Master of not following him on to the next world. and that is because of the immense love we share.

(in reply to CaringandReal)

Post #: 36

RE: Banned Friendships - 6/21/2009 8:30:54 AM

Firebirdseeking

Posts: 477
Joined: 9/3/2006
Status: offline

It really bothers me sometimes what passes for "Lifestyle". There is no reason to isolate a sub from her support system. Ever. People dont understand this lifestyle, so we cut them off? Thats a crock too.

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 37

RE: Banned Friendships - 6/21/2009 9:33:47 AM

CallaFirestormBW

Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline

quote:

I find I have a different experience with this. If, during some serious training, he wanted to isolate me from friends and family, I would have an extraordinarily hard time adjusting to that, and overall, think it would be detrimental to both my training and our relationship. I am one of those people that talks to their parents everyday, or every other day. I talk to my siblings two or three times a week, and text or chat with some very close friends every day. The conversations with my family members keeps me sane - they are my link to everything back home, and my friends are my sounding board for what I am going through at the time, mostly because they are lifestyle friends.

See, for me, this would make us incompatible in terms of your needs and my expectations. Our full-on training is -very- detail-oriented and requires full attention. If you're texting people and talking on the phone, you are -not- paying attention to your training, and to me, that is completely unacceptable (and disrespectful to your trainers' time and energy as well). For someone who desired a full time station with our household, and who was unwilling to even commit the few weeks necessary for intense training, I would say that they wouldn't be able to fit into the highly structured style of household we have.

It doesn't make either party wrong in what they expect... but it -does- require that compatibility issues be discussed aforetimes.

Dame Calla

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to trappedinamuseum)

Post #: 38

RE: Banned Friendships - 6/21/2009 10:12:04 AM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline

So there is only one true way?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking

It really bothers me sometimes what passes for "Lifestyle". There is no reason to isolate a sub from her support system. Ever. People dont understand this lifestyle, so we cut them off? Thats a crock too.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to Firebirdseeking)

Post #: 39

RE: Banned Friendships - 6/21/2009 10:24:40 AM

CNJDom

Posts: 186
Joined: 6/6/2006
From: Southern NJ
Status: offline

When someone bans someone else from seeing or talking to others, it's not just a power trip..it's also an insecurity that is harbored from jealously and inadequacy. They feel that if another person is met and talked to, that perhaps that person could sway their sub from the person doing the banning. This may come from the type of behavior that the Dominant is displaying that could be considered abusive even by our kink-standards. Putting isolation restrictions and controlling the environment like this isn't considered healthy in a normal day-to-day situation.

I could see that a certain amount of people outside of the core relationship that might be destructive or manipulative way that I would think would be discussed and mutually arrived to the conclusion of discontinuing to see someone. But this would be decision, gotten from an agreed reason, and not just a ban. Banning would imply that the sub still wishes to continue a relationship with this other person, and the Dominant wants to take that away. There are good reasons to restrict outside contact with others for a set, short period of time if it's decided upon that some specific training or adjusting in say a slave/Master relationship. This would be up to that particular situation, and is only a concept...but to do this again on a day-to-day situation is not proper. Just not healthy.

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 40

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