quote:

At first I was really shocked at the depth of thier ignorance of their own system of government, but as time goes on I find a similar lack of comprehension here in Canada as well.

I claim Non-Ignorance!
I live in a community that has roots in being very
Politically Active, Very Knowledgable about poliitics,
yet we are a smaller communnity on the West Bank of
the Mississippi in Mpls. Very diverse community, who for
the most part have created strong bonds of friendship amongs't
our many variables.

I think that takes a lot of political understanding and care,
and Communication and respect for individuality.

As for Larger politic's (which I believe start at a smallscale level)
I hope that the USA has learned something the last 7.,...years that
a big change is needed, if we want to regain our collective honor and respect
everyone needs to speak up and vote!

Most of all eveyone should educate themselves about the overt and covert crap
that goes on in government and politics.

Being and Staying Ignorant and is no excuse in my book!
Do not WHINE if you stay ignorant and a non participent.
Chit, I also hate discussing politics here, not enough room and also it get's peoples undies in a bunch most of the time.

You know the rules "P" and "R" in this diverse community can only invite "Flame Wars"
Yuk, Yuk, Yuk

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

You're making less and less sense. If it was wrong of someone else to paint "Afghanistan" as a nation of terrorists and fundamentalists, isn't it equally wrong to paint "America" as a nation of ignoramuses? You're trying to have it both ways: on the one hand, that it reflects poorly on America for Bush to be our elected president--and, on the other hand, that it's wrong to generalize about America solely on the basis of its president. You seem to want to reduce America to an easy stereotype even as you recognize why that doesn't work.

Look, I'll be the first to admit that America's behavior since 2001 has engendered a ton of ill will abroad. Most of it is understandable. But that doesn't mean it's useful for OTHER nations to have an unrealistically one-sided view of America, either. The heaviest cost of narrow-minded views is borne by the people who hold them, not by the people they stigmatize.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa

Not all people elected him. Yes, he is the president, but *I* didnt vote for him, and many didnt vote for him. But, we are the minority, obviously since he is now president.
Nice post, btw.

Editted for correct spelling of MstrTiger's name

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa

Not all people elected him. Yes, he is the president, but *I* didnt vote for him, and many didnt vote for him. But, we are the minority, obviously since he is now president.
Nice post, btw.

Editted for correct spelling of MstrTiger's name

Herein lays the problem if you will. Whilst the US maintains voting to be voluntary, it is possible for a minority of the population to become the majority of the voters and the wrong (in retrospect) person adorns the Whitehouse. In countries where voting is mandatory with hefty fines for failing to vote (such as Australia), people can justify the cry "Don't blame me; I didn't vote for the wanker!" here we certainly get what we voted. For you guys accross the duck pond, I'd wager, dont get what most of you wanted. I strongly believe in "Government for the people, by the people", but for that to have a chance in hell working, the "People" have top get arses off chairs and heads away from TV and legs moving and go and vote. The ability to vote for your government is a precious gift/right and should be used wisely and NEVER tossed aside.

OK OK OK I'll get off the Flame Proof Bear Mobile and light up another cigarette and brew another coffee. I don't take notice to lynch mobs untill Lynching Thursday (The Thursday on which the third Full Moon in the month happens)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence!
Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.
Persistence and Determination alone are omnipotent!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It's all in the game and how you play it!

quote:

And then when you factor in that a very large segment of our potential voting bloc has no idea that they've fallen prey to a phony paradigm, it isn't likely that things we be changing any time soon.

quote:

Not all people elected him. Yes, he is the president, but *I* didnt vote for him, and many didnt vote for him. But, we are the minority, obviously since he is now president.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tapestry

quote:

And then when you factor in that a very large segment of our potential voting bloc has no idea that they've fallen prey to a phony paradigm, it isn't likely that things we be changing any time soon.

quote:

Not all people elected him. Yes, he is the president, but *I* didnt vote for him, and many didnt vote for him. But, we are the minority, obviously since he is now president.

So many people I speak with one on one are rational and intelligent people, no matter their level of education. Unfortunately, when it comes to an election, they seem to become just another part of the herd. Following the crowd, the "popular kids", instead of making up their own minds without regard to "peer pressure". Now to be clear, I'm using these terms to describe adults, not kids, but they fit well. I find that in politics the masses have been following the "popular kids" without really understanding what that means.

In my state, people complain about the cuts that have been made to the state's education budget. OK, then why did my fellow citizens elect the current governor? I didn't vote for him, not because he isn't of my same party affiliation, maybe he is, to me that's irrelevant. I educated myself as to his real beliefs and voting record while in congress and made up my own mind. Not true for the majority though. They watched the commercials and listened to the smear campaigns and took that as truth. I find the same to be true in national elections as well. The majority didn't get into the real issues and look at the real position of the candidates. They took the easy route, and believed all the rhetoric and negative ads, and somehow have allowed themselves to believe that one's ability to perform the job has some connection with personal matters.

Unfortunately, this "majority" doesn't realize it's been sold a bill of goods, so no, things aren't going to be changing until folks wake up. And yes, I know that since the President is duly elected (or Governor) that they somehow represent me, but I will respond consistently and vehemently that he is not my president/governor and doesn't represent me, my beliefs, or my best interests. Do I still accord him the respect of his office, oh sure. Doesn't make him "my" elected official though.

The best thing that educators in the US can do for the future is to teach children critical thinking skills and how to make decisions based on research and facts, rather than being swayed by campaign speeches and advertising. It's not about being a member of one political party or another, it's not about so-called family values, it's not about being conservative or liberal. It's about making up one's own mind, on a candidate by candidate basis.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tapestry
In my state, people complain about the cuts that have been made to the state's education budget. OK, then why did my fellow citizens elect the current governor? I didn't vote for him, not because he isn't of my same party affiliation, maybe he is, to me that's irrelevant. I educated myself as to his real beliefs and voting record while in congress and made up my own mind. Not true for the majority though. They watched the commercials and listened to the smear campaigns and took that as truth. I find the same to be true in national elections as well. The majority didn't get into the real issues and look at the real position of the candidates. They took the easy route, and believed all the rhetoric and negative ads, and somehow have allowed themselves to believe that one's ability to perform the job has some connection with personal matters.

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear
Herein lays the problem if you will. Whilst the US maintains voting to be voluntary, it is possible for a minority of the population to become the majority of the voters and the wrong (in retrospect) person adorns the Whitehouse. In countries where voting is mandatory with hefty fines for failing to vote (such as Australia), people can justify the cry "Don't blame me; I didn't vote for the wanker!" here we certainly get what we voted. For you guys accross the duck pond, I'd wager, dont get what most of you wanted. I strongly believe in "Government for the people, by the people", but for that to have a chance in hell working, the "People" have top get arses off chairs and heads away from TV and legs moving and go and vote. The ability to vote for your government is a precious gift/right and should be used wisely and NEVER tossed aside.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

OK, basically I agree with you, but one country can invade another even if they don't border each other. We just invaded Iraq, right?

As for whether Americans tend to be ignorant about world affairs: I'm American, and I agree that Americans tend to be ignorant about world affairs. It's because our standard of living is so high and because, to the average dumass in the middle of the country, we seem to be able to do our thing without having to cooperate with any other nations. People who still think that way are in for a serious awakening, of course, but I'd wager that the majority of Americans really do think that way.

quote:

So many people I speak with one on one are rational and intelligent people, no matter their level of education. Unfortunately, when it comes to an election, they seem to become just another part of the herd. Following the crowd, the "popular kids", instead of making up their own minds without regard to "peer pressure". Now to be clear, I'm using these terms to describe adults, not kids, but they fit well. I find that in politics the masses have been following the "popular kids" without really understanding what that means.