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RE: To divulge (political affiliation) ... or not? - 6/22/2009 4:40:49 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RumpusParable

I couldn't be with someone who was racist and felt any but whites should have their rights reduced/removed and be subject to forced eugenics -that particular relationship ended the day they brought their political beliefs up.

It's a fair point and I think you're asking a question that any liberal who says he is open to ideas would rather not answer.

It's late here so I'm not going to answer this one in full while I'm not thinking particularly clearly but my first impression is that an idea/any idea is valid whereas forced eugenics is an entirely different proposition as you have moved beyond an idea and into state sponsored human selection and it would be hard to argue that the state or any other institution should have the authority to wield that power.

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RE: To divulge (political affiliation) ... or not? - 6/22/2009 4:50:30 PM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
This thread, however, seems to speak more along the lines of ethical and moral compatibility. Disagreeing is one thing. Passionately abhorring a particular view point is another. I went out (very briefly) with someone who laughed about how his friends would drive to SF to gay bash. There's really no intelligent thing to discuss there, other than "bye bye".

*nods* At some point, the level of disagreement becomes "irreconcilable differences". THis would be true even in the business context. I could deal with moderates on both sides. I'd have a very hard time with extemists on either side.

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RE: To divulge (political affiliation) ... or not? - 6/22/2009 5:06:08 PM

Prinsexx

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Snoring is a hard limit for me.
Political affiliation comes way down the list.

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RE: To divulge (political affiliation) ... or not? - 6/22/2009 5:36:10 PM

Andalusite

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlexandraLynch
At this point in political cycling, I assume anyone using a certain title for their politics is at minimum uninformed and thoughtless. At most, they have sociopathic tendencies.

Here on CM, the political options all involve specific labels. I consider myself to be a moderate independent with Libertarian leanings. I register to vote for whichever primary I care about (including sometimes specifically voting *against* a particular candidate), and vote for the person who I feel is best qualified regardless of party. I don't have any problem with someone who identifies as Democratic, Republican, Green Party, etc., even if they are quite passionate about it, as long as they aren't so dogmatic that they are completely closeminded about other views, or derogatory about the people who don't share them.

OP, if they have it listed as a hard limit, it sounds like you aren't compatible. Just listing a different party isn't a problem, but it indicates that agreement in that area is crucial to them. When I was dating, the people who had "Christian" listed as a hard limit, or "hates" were likewise automatically crossed off of my list, even though I was open to a partner who had different beliefs.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 6/22/2009 5:37:51 PM >

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Post #: 44

RE: To divulge (political affiliation) ... or not? - 6/22/2009 5:52:01 PM

MmeGigs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda
Sure, but don't you find that political views are often a strong indicator of personal values?

I haven't really found that to be the case. My mother-in-law and I are absolute polar opposites politically and on many of the most pressing current issues (she's a devout Christian social conservative), but when it comes to personal values, there are very few people whom I respect as much as I do her. She believes what she believes very strongly, but she loves her fellow human unconditionally and leaves judgment and punishment to God. I disagreed with my mom pretty completely when it came to politics, but I aspire to be just like her when it comes to personal values. I'll never be as good a person as she was - I don't have the patience for it and I don't like people as much as she did. My ex-office-mate's political views were very similar to mine, but I found her personal values pretty fucked-up. She's very judgmental and unforgiving, and everyone and everything seems to come up lacking in her eyes. None of these women are representative of the folks who share their political views, nor are they anomalies.

quote:

How you vote says a lot about who you are, IMO.

I don't agree. I think that it may say something about who you are, but how much it says depends on how engaged you are in politics. Most folks just aren't that interested - 43% of those eligible to vote in the last election didn't bother, and 2008 was supposed to be a big, hot year. I suspect that many who did vote didn't give it all that much thought or didn't have steadfast political views. How else can one explain the ballots in MN where folks voted for Obama and for Norm Coleman, or for McCain and for Al Franken? There were quite a few of those split ballots.

I don't think that hubby and I have ever cast matching ballots, but he's one of the best people I've ever known. Had I chosen to judge him based on his political leanings, I would have missed out on the best thing that ever happened to me.

< Message edited by MmeGigs -- 6/22/2009 5:55:07 PM >

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

Post #: 45

RE: To divulge (political affiliation) ... or not? - 6/22/2009 7:06:49 PM

LookieNoNookie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: nevergrowdup

This happened twice now ...

Someone sent me a c-mail and made a favorable impression. He's actually read my profile and is making the case that we are a good match. I check over his profile and we seem quite compatible. But I notice that he considers himself an expert in his political affiliation, and that it's the opposite of mine. In one case, he listed my political affiliation as a hard limit.

Does it matter to me? Not so much, really. My three dearest friends (my BFFs) are all opposite me on the political spectrum and there's nothing but love between us.

But in creating a response back I wonder ... should I let him know, in case it is a show stopper for him?

In both cases I divulged, but also said that I didn't have a problem with it. (I should also mention that I addressed many other points in my response; this was not a one issue type of thing.) The one who said my political affiliation was a hard limit said that the statement in his profile was a mistake. In the most recent case, I haven't heard anything back (and it's been 2 days.) Not that I've been losing sleep over this. But I'm wondering ... should I even mention it this early in the game ... first or second c-mail?

I've always been one of those that believes this kind of political thing is all that tomatoe/ tomahto kind of stuff.......

(Unless of course she disagrees with me...which then of course spells things out patently clear that she's full of shit).

(in reply to nevergrowdup)

Post #: 46

RE: To divulge (political affiliation) ... or not? - 6/22/2009 8:17:30 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeGigs

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda
Sure, but don't you find that political views are often a strong indicator of personal values?

I haven't really found that to be the case.

You don't think that someone who supports detention without trial and the torture of prisoners is saying a lot about their personal values? I certainly do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeGigs

quote:

How you vote says a lot about who you are, IMO.

I don't agree. I think that it may say something about who you are, but how much it says depends on how engaged you are in politics. Most folks just aren't that interested - 43% of those eligible to vote in the last election didn't bother, and 2008 was supposed to be a big, hot year.

How much interest someone takes in the political issues of the day in and of itself says a lot about who they are, doesn't it?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeGigs
I suspect that many who did vote didn't give it all that much thought or didn't have steadfast political views. How else can one explain the ballots in MN where folks voted for Obama and for Norm Coleman, or for McCain and for Al Franken? There were quite a few of those split ballots.

Which again says a lot about the person casting the ballot, unless they just closed their eyes and threw darts. Every ballot tells a story of what that particular voter believes in, what their vision is for the country and what they consider the best way is to bring that vision to life. Unless people simply vote at random, the combination of candidates they vote for tells a lot about what they believe in. And that says a lot about what kind of a person someone is, at least in ways that matter to me.

< Message edited by ThatDamnedPanda -- 6/22/2009 8:21:08 PM >

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Post #: 47

RE: To divulge (political affiliation) ... or not? - 6/22/2009 9:12:35 PM

DemonKia

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FR, after read thru

lol, & great discussion . . . . .

I rarely agree wholeheartedly with most, on whatever side . . . . . & anymore I'd be tempted to describe my political notions as 'complicated', tho' if pressed I select 'progressive' as my preferred label . . . . .

& I've frequently been attracted to people who are what I perceive as being 'more conservative' than I . . .. . & that those who are most likely to find my beliefs distasteful are usually not much interested in me in other ways, also, & vice versa . . . ..

I agree that there is both a 'surface politics' component to this, & there is a 'deeper moral / ethical' component to this, but it seems to me to be a swirling complex as to how this presents from individual to individual . . . . .

A purely side note: my experience is that some people use 'politics' as a place to vent emotions (typically negative ones such as anger & fear) rather than to engage in reasoned exchanges of ideas. That is, that for some people political discussion is an 'appropriate' venue to release feelings that have no other place to be allowed out in their lives . . . . Mostly I'm not much on those kinds of uses for political discourse . . . . . .

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RE: To divulge (political affiliation) ... or not? - 6/22/2009 11:04:33 PM

AlexandraLynch

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I ask about religion and politics first off because I move to scening in my home pretty early on.

In my house, there are pagan altars in a couple rooms of the house. You don't set down the sodas on them, you don't touch what's on them, you don't make comments about what is on them until you know me better and can figure out (on the one altar, specially) what items will make me cry to talk about them. Further, there are certain things I do that have religious implications in my everyday life. I can handle someone who isn't pagan themselves but can respect these items of my faith. What I do not want is someone for whom these are intolerable representations of worship of the Devil.

In my house, going to the bathroom to urinate or defecate is referred to, especially if the process takes a while, as "Helping Rush Limbaugh with show prep". Especially socially unfriendly incidents are referred to as "listening to Michael Savage". I'm a regular blogger on a progressive web site. It's just going to be pretty uncomfortable for someone who doesn't share our views to spend any time here, and I'd like to spare anyone that discomfort. You know, so they can focus on the discomfort I want to make them feel. (grin)

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RE: To divulge (political affiliation) ... or not? - 6/23/2009 5:35:32 AM

GotSteel

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In response to a number of people, of course it's important to talk about your deeply held beliefs fairly early on but it doesn't seem like D or R is a deeply held belief for her. Here's a little of what George Washington said about the party system in his farewell address "It serves to distract the Public Councils, and enfeeble the Public Administration....agitates the Community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one....against another..." I don't think the OP should list her affiliation because it's something that's so divisive. I think she should instead talk about the positions she feels strongly about, hopefully that would eliminate the political zombies and allow her to find common ground and compatibility among the majority of people. Instead of eliminating compatible people simply because they checked the other box.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 50

RE: To divulge (political affiliation) ... or not? - 6/23/2009 6:11:58 AM

nevergrowdup

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

In response to a number of people, of course it's important to talk about your deeply held beliefs fairly early on but it doesn't seem like D or R is a deeply held belief for her. Here's a little of what George Washington said about the party system in his farewell address "It serves to distract the Public Councils, and enfeeble the Public Administration....agitates the Community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one....against another..." I don't think the OP should list her affiliation because it's something that's so divisive. I think she should instead talk about the positions she feels strongly about, hopefully that would eliminate the political zombies and allow her to find common ground and compatibility among the majority of people. Instead of eliminating compatible people simply because they checked the other box.

As the OP, I'd like to point out that I do have deeply held political beliefs. But I also know that there are good people on both sides of the political spectrum. As long as someone is tolerant to differences, I'm OK.

I heard once that the difference between and D and an R is who do you trust more to handle our public needs ... the government with its inefficiencies, or industry with its focus on profit? Both are problematic. (And I would argue that best fit depends on the situation.) Point is, I think I understand both sides ... I see shades of gray. But overall, my leanings are significantly to one side.

IMHO, the character of the person matters more his/her political affiliation. I put more emphasis on things like ... does he cut people off in traffic? Does he see humor in life? Is his glass half full?

It's been interesting following this thread and I've truly appreciated all the opinions. It's helped me think things out, and in the end validated my earlier decisions to divulge, not only when it's listed as a hard limit ... but when it's apparent that it's important to him. As long as I'm being respectful, I think it's the right way to go.

(in reply to GotSteel)

Post #: 51

RE: To divulge (political affiliation) ... or not? - 6/23/2009 6:34:00 AM

Andalusite

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I guess I'm cynical enough to feel that the main difference between the Democratic and Republicans parties is who they want to spend public money on.

Individual politicians and voters of course can be very different in their stance on a variety of issues, but the parties as a whole seem to be corrupt.

Anyway, that sounds like a good approach, and I think that most people can have reasonable, interesting discussions about political differences.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 6/23/2009 6:36:14 AM >

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RE: To divulge (political affiliation) ... or not? - 6/24/2009 5:54:51 PM

MmeGigs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda
You don't think that someone who supports detention without trial and the torture of prisoners is saying a lot about their personal values? I certainly do.

There are folks who believe that my support for abortion rights says a lot about my personal values, and that what it says is really awful. I think that my values are pretty darned good. I'm solidly in the top quartile when it comes to caring for and helping out my fellow human. I understand and am sympathetic to the main-stream pro-life position. Any anti-abortion folk who would think that they know a lot about me based solely on my position on abortion would be dead wrong.

I find the idea of detention without trial and of torture as abhorrent as some folks find the idea of abortion. I accept that any assumptions I might make about the personal values of someone who supports this are likely as wrong as the assumptions that someone who is fundamentally against abortion might have about me.

quote:

How much interest someone takes in the political issues of the day in and of itself says a lot about who they are, doesn't it?

I don't think that this in and of itself says much that's of any real importance. Someone who takes an interest in the issues of the day isn't more trustworthy, generous, open-minded, caring, or basically decent than someone who only listens to the news by accident.

Being a person who is interested in the issues of the day, I do wish that more folks paid attention to what's going on. However, I'd rather spend my time with someone who doesn't pay attention and doesn't care than with someone who is engaged to the point where they've lost the ability to understand that there can be good, principled folks on both sides of any issue.

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RE: To divulge (political affiliation) ... or not? - 6/24/2009 6:58:25 PM

antipode

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quote:

It's just going to be pretty uncomfortable for someone who doesn't share our views to spend any time here, and I'd like to spare anyone that discomfort.

Ah. Religious tolerance by rigorous exclusion. How quaint.

(in reply to AlexandraLynch)

Post #: 54

RE: To divulge (political affiliation) ... or not? - 6/24/2009 8:42:21 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeGigs

quote:

How much interest someone takes in the political issues of the day in and of itself says a lot about who they are, doesn't it?

I don't think that this in and of itself says much that's of any real importance. Someone who takes an interest in the issues of the day isn't more trustworthy, generous, open-minded, caring, or basically decent than someone who only listens to the news by accident.

No, but they have in common with me something very important, something that a woman who doesn't take any interest in the world around her does not have. I'm not talking about whether they're decent human beings or not, whether they're caring or compassionate people - I tend to assume that most human beings in this world are, on a fundamental level. I'm talking about whether our values systems are similar enough that we'd be compatible in a relationship. Someone who has no interest in what's happening in the world she inhabits is not someone I'd find very stimulating on enough levels to marry her.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeGigs
Being a person who is interested in the issues of the day, I do wish that more folks paid attention to what's going on. However, I'd rather spend my time with someone who doesn't pay attention and doesn't care than with someone who is engaged to the point where they've lost the ability to understand that there can be good, principled folks on both sides of any issue.

Interesting closing line there. If anyone else said it, I'd take it as a shot, but since I remember you as having more class than that I'll assume you didn't mean it that way.

But I think it says a lot about the two different directions from which we're approaching this. You seem to want to frame it primarily in terms of "good people vs. bad people." I haven't studied every post in the thread, so maybe a few other people are doing the same, but my impression of the overall tone of the discussion is that most of us are talking in terms of compatible values systems vs. incompatible values systems. Certainly on some extreme ends of the discussion, there are certain values that are so abhorrent that each of us would find someone holding those values to be repugnant, but I don't think it serves any purpose for anyone to take the discussion down that kind of a dead end.

Personally, I've got a lot of friends who have very different views than my own. My landlord and his wife are Rush Limbaugh, George Bush republicans, with a freakin' George Bush calendar on their refrigerator. Which I find... appalling, I suppose you'd say. But they're two of the nicest, most decent human beings I know. We have fascinating discussions about politics, and we in fact the husband is one of the few people I know with whom I actually enjoy discussing politics. They're terrific people, but then again I'm not married to either of them. At least half of my friends are republicans, and I like to think they're damned good people. Or they wouldn't be my friends. But as you may have noticed a few weeks ago when we were all camping, I don't happen to be married to any of them, either.

And I never will be. Not because they're bad people, but because if I'm sharing my life with someone, it's critically important to me that we also share certain core values. And I've never met a neocon who shares those values with me. I don't think its possible for people who support certain policies to share my core values. Ergo, people who support such policies are people with whom I may be friends - even very good friends - but we're not sleeping together. It's not a personal judgment, it's a simple question of personal compatibility.

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RE: To divulge (political affiliation) ... or not? - 6/24/2009 9:48:27 PM

Asherdelampyr

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If you want to know more of a man than just his dingly-danglies then you must be willing to give up some real info as well
Especially if it is something that could lead to arguments later.

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RE: To divulge (political affiliation) ... or not? - 6/25/2009 4:33:56 AM

MmeGigs

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Joined: 1/26/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda
Interesting closing line there. If anyone else said it, I'd take it as a shot, but since I remember you as having more class than that I'll assume you didn't mean it that way.

I didn't mean it that way at all. I know you're not one of those people. I'm sorry it came out in a way that sounded like a shot.

< Message edited by MmeGigs -- 6/25/2009 4:35:20 AM >

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Post #: 57

RE: To divulge (political affiliation) ... or not? - 7/9/2009 4:58:01 PM

herbcaroll

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For some odd reason, I've found that Republican women have made better Dommes for me even though I'm not a Republican anymore. It doesn't matter to me.

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Post #: 58

RE: To divulge (political affiliation) ... or not? - 7/9/2009 5:45:13 PM

Plutonic

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I think it's great that some people think of political beliefs as a hard limit. It shows they take politics seriously- and so they should!

Having said which, I don't think peoples' political positions can necessarily be defined as points along a scale between- for instance- "very liberal" and "very conservative". Or even between "very radical" and "very conservative."

One thing I've noticed long ago is that both extreme ends of the political spectrum actually have far more in common with each other than with the people in the middle. For instance many of the most authoritarian right wing members of the UK "New Labour" government started off as Trotskyites, ie to the left of the Communist Party.

(in reply to nevergrowdup)

Post #: 59

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