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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/26/2009 4:25:09 PM   
lronitulstahp


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Status: offline 		i am so proud to have you for a friend.....(((angelika)))

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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/26/2009 4:28:48 PM   
sirsholly


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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/26/2009 4:39:05 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Hi BlaakMaan

Do you think it possible that you are going to the opposite extreme in your reaction to the negative posts on Michael Jackson?

What if he was not someone you followed or admired. What if he was a business executive but had exactly the same history of paying off parents to avoid litigation? Would you be so adamant in your support or forgiving?

Look at the reaction to Catholic priests when the church used payoffs to avoid litigation. Do you think they would be deserving of your praise and defense of their innocence? They were not found guilty in a court of law either but there seems to be little doubt in their guilt.

What if you truly though he was guilty of molesting… could you still praise one side of his personality and forget the other?

It is a shame that in our country you are tried twice…once in court and then again in the press. I wish they would make it illegal to reveal evidence in criminal cases until and if there is a conviction. Then maybe many people would not think of him as another rich celebrity that bought their way out of jail.

But surely you can understand how some good people, not vindictive or sanctimonious, would not share your forgiveness of his actions despite his obvious talent as an entertainer. Giving millions to charity or parents does not buy forgiveness for the many who have been abused.

But of course you are right on more than one count…. More than a few people would think we deserve to burn in hell for our lifestyle…They would also be more likely to think bad of us and judge us without knowing us. Perhaps we are doing the same with Michael Jackson because of his public lifestyle and quirks in his personality.

Butch


< Message edited by kdsub -- 6/26/2009 4:41:18 PM >

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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/26/2009 4:43:23 PM   
philosophy


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.....i am saddened at MJ's passing, some talking heads on the TV mentioned that we had watched him grow up. Collectively.  We watched him while, as a young kid, he bopped and sang. Later on he reinvented himself and created the best selling album in history. Arguably he made the best music video ever too. However, what chance did the poor sod ever get to lead a normal life? As to the allegations that dogged him in later life, well i doubt he was a predator. Incredibly naive and foolish, but not a predator.
He never got to lead his own life.....he was a cultural slave in some respects. i just hope that if there's a life after death he gets the peace there that he never got to enjoy in life.

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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/26/2009 4:46:41 PM   
JstAnotherSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

 
snip 
But then, not responding - well - that would deny me the right of voicing my - hmmmmm.... regret is the wrong word because I believe his passing is pretty much a positive thing for his timeline - and sorrows the wrong word... loss doesn't cover it because he has been pretty silent for the past 10 years more.
I believe that, more than anyone else in a cultural sense, Jackson has highlighted just how evil and malicious people can be and has put under the spotlight just how flawed humanity really is - and just how unhappy - this thread being a fine example.  And I think that is what touches me the most about his death.

Michael Jackson
1958 - 2009


so well said thedark....he has been in the public eye all his life, done so much good, yet all some can speak of is the alleged wrongs he did.

no one on here knows his heart amd soul, nor the demons he may have fought.

may he rest in peace and may his family comfort each other.

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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/26/2009 5:05:08 PM   
blacksword404


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub



so well said thedark....he has been in the public eye all his life, done so much good, yet all some can speak of is the alleged wrongs he did.

no one on here knows his heart amd soul, nor the demons he may have fought.

may he rest in peace and may his family comfort each other.


There have been countless people who were normal until stardom. After stardom they are a mess. You can turn the tv on now and see some. Being a child star itself has ruined many, but a supermegastar...   He never had a chance at a normal life.  Fame is the most fickle and cruelest of Masters.

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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/26/2009 5:31:36 PM   
sleazybutterfly


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Status: offline 		I think the court of public opinion is a horrid thing, but it's just the way we are.

If I were to say what I believe, I believe he didn't do it.  I have my own reasons for thinking this, much like others have theirs for thinking he did.  Mine have about as much weight as yours, so I agree to disagree.

What I do think about is the good things he did.  No, that will never erase the things people think he did, but they are the way I like to remember everyone.  I know I have done some things in my life that have hurt people, I only hope when I am gone from this earth, they are able to look at and remember me for who I really was, and what I tried to do to change my little spot of earth.

I think my friends probably consider I have a Pollyanna personality, but I do really honestly believe there is good in everyone.  I see no reason to speak bad about someone that has passed from this earth.  They are no longer here to defend themselves, and it really serves no purpose other than to let someone be able to puff their own chest up with pride at how much better they are.

In reality we are all no more than specks in time that no one hundreds of years from now will even have cross their minds. 

It makes me think of one of my favorite songs, and I hope it's how people will look upon me in passing.

"When my time comes, forget the wrong that I've done.
Help me leave behind some reasons to be missed,
Don't resent me, and when you're feeling empty
Keep me in your memory, leave out all the rest"

The song is   Leave Out All the Rest and the whole song pretty much speaks for me in many ways to those I love.  It's also how I try to think of those that I love during our lives together, and when they are gone.

http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/l/linkin_park/leave_out_all_the_rest.html




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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/26/2009 5:36:13 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

Matthew 7:1-6 1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. I don't think I knew how much I truly loved Michael and his music until he died.



Oh boy, just how ironic is this. "Judge not, that ye be not judged. "  Does this only apply to others and not to yourself  ?

Getting onto Micheal Jackson, like may others I remember him from his Jackson Five days. For one so young to sing "I`ll be there" In the way he did was stunning. I am sad as he is a loss to the world of music.

I am dismayed that so many who have posted about the rule of law, are quick to overlook the fact he was found not guilty after a five months trial.

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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/26/2009 5:41:02 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sleazybutterfly

I think the court of public opinion is a horrid thing, but it's just the way we are.



Well, the court of public opinion is indeed a horrid thing, but not all of us choose to contribute to it. The fact is that the man that just died was deemed "not guilty" by a jury. I have no idea what goes through the minds of those people that sit in armchairs judging a person for such a heinous crime without them being personally involved in the matter. It's truly baffling.

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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/26/2009 5:49:35 PM   
sleazybutterfly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: sleazybutterfly

I think the court of public opinion is a horrid thing, but it's just the way we are.



Well, the court of public opinion is indeed a horrid thing, but not all of us choose to contribute to it. The fact is that the man that just died was deemed "not guilty" by a jury. I have no idea what goes through the minds of those people that sit in armchairs judging a person for such a heinous crime without them being personally involved in the matter. It's truly baffling.


I tend to agree.


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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/26/2009 5:51:04 PM   
Lockit


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Status: offline 		Two of those on the jury said they believed he was quilty two months after.  They just had to go by the letter of the law.  They felt a guilty man walked.

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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/26/2009 5:52:27 PM   
Blaakmaan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

Matthew 7:1-6 1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. I don't think I knew how much I truly loved Michael and his music until he died.




Oh boy, just how ironic is this. "Judge not, that ye be not judged. "  Does this only apply to others and not to yourself  ?

Getting onto Micheal Jackson, like may others I remember him from his Jackson Five days. For one so young to sing "I`ll be there" In the way he did was stunning. I am sad as he is a loss to the world of music.

I am dismayed that so many who have posted about the rule of law, are quick to overlook the fact he was found not guilty after a five months trial.


Am I judging?

I thought I was advocating NOT judging.

Are you judging, by saying I'm judging?  Now, wouldn't THAT be ironic?

Whatever.

You all need to leave Michael alone and get some kind of a life.

If as many people care when YOU die, as are care for him now, you'll have done well.

And, no, that wasn't directed at YOU.



< Message edited by Blaakmaan -- 6/26/2009 5:57:26 PM >

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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/26/2009 5:54:59 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Two of those on the jury said they believed he was quilty two months after.  They just had to go by the letter of the law.  They felt a guilty man walked.


Surely all we can go by is the letter of the law ? If two people felt he was guilty, ten thought he was innocent, or didnt want to speak out.

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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/26/2009 5:58:41 PM   
Blaakmaan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Two of those on the jury said they believed he was quilty two months after.  They just had to go by the letter of the law.  They felt a guilty man walked.


I've looked into it, and I've never heard of a jury of two...

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Profile   Post #: 194
RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/26/2009 5:58:48 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

Am I judging?

I thought I was advocating NOT judging.

Are you judging, by saying I'm judging?  Now, wouldn't THAT be ironic?

Whatever.

Leave Michael alone  and get some kind of a life.  And, no, that wasn't directed at YOU.



Using a sentance with the words Judge ye not, sounds to be judging someones actions to me.

As for me judging you, yes I was judging your post, no irony here.

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Profile   Post #: 195
RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/26/2009 6:03:32 PM   
Lockit


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Status: offline 		So everyone has a different take for different reasons.  We aren't hurting MJ now... so that leave him alone stuff means what?  How can we hurt him now? 

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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/26/2009 6:03:37 PM   
Blaakmaan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

Am I judging?

I thought I was advocating NOT judging.

Are you judging, by saying I'm judging?  Now, wouldn't THAT be ironic?

Whatever.

Leave Michael alone  and get some kind of a life.  And, no, that wasn't directed at YOU.



Using a sentance with the words Judge ye not, sounds to be judging someones actions to me.

As for me judging you, yes I was judging your post, no irony here.


To you, maybe...

So, according to your logic, repeating a biblical passage that tells us not to judge others, constitutes being judgmental?

OK, then!

Getting just a little too bizarre for me!

I'm out.  You hold that thought, and run with it, if it isn't too slippery!

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Profile   Post #: 197
RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/26/2009 6:08:09 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

So everyone has a different take for different reasons.  We aren't hurting MJ now... so that leave him alone stuff means what?  How can we hurt him now? 


Why bring it up ? Whatever happened to rest in peace ?

Honestly, I think he may have been guilty. He was found not guily so I abide by that.

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Profile   Post #: 198
RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/26/2009 6:11:24 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

So, according to your logic, repeating a biblical passage that tells us not to judge others, constitutes being judgmental ?



In a word, yes.

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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/26/2009 6:17:04 PM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
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Status: offline 		I'm saddened by the passing of Michael Jackson which leaves a tremendous hole in the culture of modern music, but I am also equally saddened by the reactions to his passing.

Putting his private life and eccentricities to one side for a moment, I don't think anyone could belittle his achievements in modern music. Like so many others he found fame and stardom with Berry Gordy and Tamla Motown, but I don't think there's been anyone who could put together dance, beat and pop music quite like Michael Jackson and he did this for over three decades, influencing music just as much in the 1980's as he did back with Tamla Motown.

These achievements still stand, as does his influence, and I'm pretty sure that in a 100 years from now people will still be learning of his contribution to culture and music.

As for the allegations and controversy over his private life I cannot say much as it wasn't proven in a court of law and I'm disinclined to have any sort of opinion about this, but it's sad that so many people appear to have overlooked over three decades of consistent achievement in the music industry and instead focus on the allegations.

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