RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital

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LaTigresse -> RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital (6/27/2009 7:22:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark quote: ORIGINAL: Aileen1968 Well that wasn't very nice or supportive, now was it? Says a lot about you too, btw. I never have been your 'friend' Aileen nor would I ever want to be. So being supportive or 'nice' (horrible undescriptive word btw) of you really doesn't fall into line in our relationship. What that says about me that I do not fall for petty people nor include in my friend network, those who use humour or ridicule of others as a form of attention seeking. the.dark. I assume then, that you've removed me from any friend list you may have had me on?

porcelaine -> RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital (6/27/2009 7:23:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Starbuck09 Darcy I understand what you are saying but I think you are being unfair to the two people you adress in your post. If my mother died would grieve for her but I would not look for solace online unless it was in privae [via email e.t.c.] I would certainly not posit my emotions on a message board. In this case it is a celebrity who died, a talented one and a man who became in one form or another a cultural icon. It is absolutely fine that people feel grief for his death but they cannot expect others to share in it nor should they have to tailor their emotions in this forum. If you were face to face having a conversation and were visibly distressed then people would be expected to modify their language, but this isn't a private discusssion it is a public forum discussing a man who had as many detractors as he had admirers. When people discuss the army and our current wars often it will upset me but that does not mean that I have any right to dictate what people can and can't say I can argue against them but not ask them to stop to preserve my personal feelings. I am sorry you are feeling upset and hurt over this man's death and I do feeel sympathy for you, but i also feel sympathy for the people you slated for having an opinion of this man that was different to yours. i find it very unlikely that you can predict what you would do if your parent died and that person is still alive. people react differently to situations when they're directly involved. the same sentiments are echoed about when i become a parent, if that were me, blah blah. the truth is you really can't say what you'd do until you're in the thick of things. as a matter of fact, if you were a staple of this community and had made friendships over your time here i could see you mentioning your mother passing with the understanding it would be a supportive environment to express your grief. now if you chose not to do so that's another thing, but at the very least you'd know it was possible. the fact that people show grief or another emotional response that may have been triggered by his death isn't meaningless. it is pretty damned sad when you consider all that we have to focus on that people are spending their time debating his death and some virtual stranger's reaction to it. in fact, it took far more energy and keystrokes to post the bullshit than it would to ignore the thread or post one line instead. but as always people generally are apt to see the not so pretty side of things until the shoe is on the other foot. for those that have glanced into the hourglass and realize it does keep trickling no matter what you do. accept that time truly waits for no one and you don't have forever to live - really live. kudos to them. on the other hand, if you're enjoying stirring the pot, expressing your opinion, or generally feasting on your drama carry on. it is pretty darned sad that is all you can fathom doing on such a pleasant summer day. and for what its worth the dark is right. seeing two sides of an issue is called maturity. i really wish others would grab a big fat slice of it. porcelaine

HatesParisHilton -> RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital (6/27/2009 7:25:58 AM)
Boy, if Michael Jackson had been stuck on this thread in his last moments, he'd have been happy to sluf dat mortal coil...! [sm=alarm.gif]

Starbuck09 -> RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital (6/27/2009 7:35:52 AM)
I agree that predicting precisely my behaviour on the passing of my mother is impossible but ''predicting'' the fact I would grieve is not porcelaine. The death of my mother would be a matter for friends it is not a matter for public consumption which is what this message board is. If I was a staple of this community and had a number of frinds on heret still would not mean the thousands of others who use this site who were not my friends should be expose to my sorrow, it is a private matter. I don't know where you got the idea that i think showing grief to someone's death is meaningless I clearly state it is not but that on a public forum discussing a man who lived in the public's eye you cannot expect others to share your emotions. As for me not understanding these people's grief, what are you talking about? Again I clearly state that there are topics [even on this forum] that cause e grief but it is a public forum for discussing ideas so I tolerate it, in fact i have no right not to. If i'm enjoying stirring the pot or feasting on my drama? How dare you I posted to someone my opinion presumably your own post does not match the criteria you apply to mine as yours is different as it comes from you? I think it is particuarly ironic that you acknowledge seing both sides is an act of maturity but then fail to do that utterly in your post.

rulemylife -> RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital (6/27/2009 7:36:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aileen1968 As a parent...you just don't take that chance. You just don't expose your child to anyone who you get that "creepy" vibe from. Michael Jackson definitely had that creepy vibe. Edited to add....he may have been the most innocent and pure person on this planet...but he gave off that weird vibe. I would never take a chance with my child. Me either. I especially get that weird vibe from those freaky S&M perverts. Those freaks are just creepy.

porcelaine -> RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital (6/27/2009 7:50:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Starbuck09 I agree that predicting precisely my behaviour on the passing of my mother is impossible but ''predicting'' the fact I would grieve is not porcelaine. The death of my mother would be a matter for friends it is not a matter for public consumption which is what this message board is. If I was a staple of this community and had a number of frinds on heret still would not mean the thousands of others who use this site who were not my friends should be expose to my sorrow, it is a private matter. I don't know where you got the idea that i think showing grief to someone's death is meaningless I clearly state it is not but that on a public forum discussing a man who lived in the public's eye you cannot expect others to share your emotions. As for me not understanding these people's grief, what are you talking about? Again I clearly state that there are topics [even on this forum] that cause e grief but it is a public forum for discussing ideas so I tolerate it, in fact i have no right not to. If i'm enjoying stirring the pot or feasting on my drama? How dare you I posted to someone my opinion presumably your own post does not match the criteria you apply to mine as yours is different as it comes from you? I think it is particuarly ironic that you acknowledge seing both sides is an act of maturity but then fail to do that utterly in your post. perhaps you should have posed a question to those things rather than assume the full comment was directed at you. because i merely spoke about your post concerning your mother and that was all. the remaining comments were in response to the other posts i've read. there is no irony in my words because it is very easy to ignore things that you take offense with or find utterly ridiculous. but there are some that don't do it and are willing to spend all day debating on a message board. and it isn't just this topic there are others and that is simply what SOME people do. but since you did respond i'll toss out another thought because i am open minded. you're correct, your grief would be private and would be something you can choose to keep to yourself. but so is your sexuality and yet we have this forum where we all share personal barbs. and when a spirit of sharing exists in a community people will do just that - share. furthermore the thread was posted in an off topic folder. which clearly allows those that frequent this site the option to ignore it since its theme would fall outside of the subject matter we usually discuss here. the mere fact people chose not to ignore it even though they knew it would not inspire anything positive from them was a choice. a decision to speak even if their words would be negative or possibly offensive. sometimes in life you learn that every thought that goes racing through your head shouldn't tumble from your lips. there are many threads i never post on for that very reason alone. if i can't add anything of value that can be remotely positive in some capacity i avoid commenting. but that's me, my reality. i'm not asking for that to become yours. but merely remarking that some have elected not to do the same. porcelaine

RCdc -> RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital (6/27/2009 7:51:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Starbuck09 Darcy I understand what you are saying but I think you are being unfair to the two people you adress in your post. If my mother died would grieve for her but I would not look for solace online unless it was in privae [via email e.t.c.] I would certainly not posit my emotions on a message board. In this case it is a celebrity who died, a talented one and a man who became in one form or another a cultural icon. It is absolutely fine that people feel grief for his death but they cannot expect others to share in it nor should they have to tailor their emotions in this forum. If you were face to face having a conversation and were visibly distressed then people would be expected to modify their language, but this isn't a private discusssion it is a public forum discussing a man who had as many detractors as he had admirers. When people discuss the army and our current wars often it will upset me but that does not mean that I have any right to dictate what people can and can't say I can argue against them but not ask them to stop to preserve my personal feelings. I am sorry you are feeling upset and hurt over this man's death and I do feeel sympathy for you, but i also feel sympathy for the people you slated for having an opinion of this man that was different to yours. Hello Starbuck I completely get what you have posted. Like I have said before in other posts - I don't really feel any sorrow, or sadness in Jacksons departing - but I can have empathy for people that do, so don't misunderstand me as feeling upset for the man in himself anymore than I would for anyone who passed away. For me, death is a pretty cool celebration, but I can see how for others, it might be sad. As for directing the post to 'two' specific posters - in this case Lockit and holly - I was responding in particular to their comments - If they feel I was unfair, then I am pretty confident that they would confront me directly, being the people and posters that they are and we would be able to sort it out here on the boards, or in private. the.dark.

Starbuck09 -> RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital (6/27/2009 8:00:05 AM)
Then you should have made that explicitly clear porcelaine you quoted my post in it's entirety and mentioned no others I see no reason why I shouldn't have assumed it was all aimed at me. This place might be off topic but that doesn't change the fact that it is a public thread open to everyone no matter their opinion. I don't think your analogy over sexuality is fair porcelaine, this forum's purpose first and foremost is to discuss B.D.S.M. and people's sexuality so those that use it make a concious decision to allow what is private to become public if this was instead of collar me called share your pain and was interested in allowing people to vent their grief then it would be different. You take my post to be negative, again I disagree. I simply pointed out that my opinion was different to Darcy's I did not castigate her having a different opinion does not mean having a negative one and my position is equally valid and worthy of being heard [or in this case seen] as your own. Please don't patronise me by telling me what i might learn in life or implying that my opinions that I take time and effort to post here are mere trivialities that ''tumble'' from my lips. You don't think my post has value but i disagree porcelaine.

RCdc -> RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital (6/27/2009 8:00:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark quote: ORIGINAL: Aileen1968 Well that wasn't very nice or supportive, now was it? Says a lot about you too, btw. I never have been your 'friend' Aileen nor would I ever want to be. So being supportive or 'nice' (horrible undescriptive word btw) of you really doesn't fall into line in our relationship. What that says about me that I do not fall for petty people nor include in my friend network, those who use humour or ridicule of others as a form of attention seeking. the.dark. I assume then, that you've removed me from any friend list you may have had me on? Are you suggesting that you- yourself - are petty and use ridicule with humour to gain attention then, Leeann? the.dark.

porcelaine -> RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital (6/27/2009 8:03:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Starbuck09 Then you should have made that explicitly clear porcelaine you quoted my post in it's entirety and mentioned no others I see no reason why I shouldn't have assumed it was all aimed at me. This place might be off topic but that doesn't change the fact that it is a public thread open to everyone no matter their opinion. I don't think your analogy over sexuality is fair porcelaine, this forum's purpose first and foremost is to discuss B.D.S.M. and people's sexuality so those that use it make a concious decision to allow what is private to become public if this was instead of collar me called share your pain and was interested in allowing people to vent their grief then it would be different. You take my post to be negative, again I disagree. I simply pointed out that my opinion was different to Darcy's I did not castigate her having a different opinion does not mean having a negative one and my position is equally valid and worthy of being heard [or in this case seen] as your own. Please don't patronise me by telling me what i might learn in life or implying that my opinions that I take time and effort to post here are mere trivialities that ''tumble'' from my lips. You don't think my post has value but i disagree porcelaine. i really wish you would stop thinking every word i say is in relation to you. it isn't. my gosh. people share here period. sometimes they share stuff others have no interest in reading. but that's the reality of sharing. you will see things that don't fit your cup of tea. your choices are simple. ignore it or keep reading. porcelaine

Starbuck09 -> RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital (6/27/2009 8:04:04 AM)
No worries Darcy and I take what you're saying about the two posters I wasn't trying to fight a battle on their behalf or anything. I'm glad you're not upset though[;)]

Starbuck09 -> RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital (6/27/2009 8:07:14 AM)
Porcelaine you quoted two of my posts in their entirety and in the second one explicitly stated you were throwing out a though for me. I don't think it's unreasonable to reply to the posts you make when you diectly quote me and only me in them. How am I supposed to know which words are in reply to the post you are quoting and which are not unless you make it clear?

LaTigresse -> RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital (6/27/2009 8:15:07 AM)
No, but I do not believe the person you've passed judgement on in, what I see as a condescending manner based upon YOUR personal behavioural morality, is either. What I see is very much a regiounal learned behaviour. An east coast sense of humour that I really appreciate and get. It fits my own self depreciating, sarcastic sense of humour. I don't always get the UK sense of humour but I know it is regiounal and not an indicator of personal morals. I like you and enjoy many of your posts. Yet I often feel they are judgemental and condescending. That being said, I usually give the benefit of doubt based upon what I perceive to be differences in personal morality/conduct and shrug at what I do not agree with. I could fuel up an attack and deem it as being judgemental and narrow minded or whatever. But the reality is that I do not see the differences in personality and learned behaviours in that light. What is acceptable behaviour to one person, one family, one regioun of the world is vastly different. I have seen that on a smaller scale in just moving from a small town, to a small city, and then to a rural area. Now working in a very liberal college town, a very different set of acceptable behaviours and thought process. Basically what you see as nasty, I don't always. It is not always black and white but moreso a matter of perception. Add to that perception, personality clashes and a concious, or more probable, subconcious intent to find a negative as a focus, and voila', a negative judgement. It is obvious there is a personality clash, and much like with the perception of the mods playing favourites and giving some posters more leeway, there is often a maginified assumption of something that was not necessarily intent. Whatever it is, to focus on it, is no more a high ground than the perceived intent. As yes, I accept this in myself and my own frequent self pedestal building. I hope you do not see this as a personal attack because I do like you and would not want that to be the perceived intent. I am just trying to give a different perspective.

SlyStone -> RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital (6/27/2009 8:39:41 AM)
quote: I still stand by my original statement, that things like Jacksons death only highlights how sad, lonely humanity really is and that cruelty and judgement (which isn't a bad thing at all IMO) pretty much are defense mechanisms. I get your point, but really I think it speaks more to the objectification of celebrity and the personal filters through which we view the world around us.

RCdc -> RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital (6/27/2009 8:58:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse No, but I do not believe the person you've passed judgement on in, what I see as a condescending manner based upon YOUR personal behavioural morality, is either. What I see is very much a regiounal learned behaviour. An east coast sense of humour that I really appreciate and get. It fits my own self depreciating, sarcastic sense of humour. I don't always get the UK sense of humour but I know it is regiounal and not an indicator of personal morals. I like you and enjoy many of your posts. Yet I often feel they are judgemental and condescending. That being said, I usually give the benefit of doubt based upon what I perceive to be differences in personal morality/conduct and shrug at what I do not agree with. I could fuel up an attack and deem it as being judgemental and narrow minded or whatever. But the reality is that I do not see the differences in personality and learned behaviours in that light. What is acceptable behaviour to one person, one family, one regioun of the world is vastly different. I have seen that on a smaller scale in just moving from a small town, to a small city, and then to a rural area. Now working in a very liberal college town, a very different set of acceptable behaviours and thought process. Basically what you see as nasty, I don't always. It is not always black and white but moreso a matter of perception. Add to that perception, personality clashes and a concious, or more probable, subconcious intent to find a negative as a focus, and voila', a negative judgement. It is obvious there is a personality clash, and much like with the perception of the mods playing favourites and giving some posters more leeway, there is often a maginified assumption of something that was not necessarily intent. Whatever it is, to focus on it, is no more a high ground than the perceived intent. As yes, I accept this in myself and my own frequent self pedestal building. I hope you do not see this as a personal attack because I do like you and would not want that to be the perceived intent. I am just trying to give a different perspective. It is not the first time for me to be told that I am condecending so I get that. I have tried to make my postings less so - doesn't always work, granted and it's something I have to work on and continue to do so. I was sitting with another poster in a pub a couple of weeks back and I was talking to her about how I sometimes leave it a while, then go back and re read what I have posted - and go - yup - condecending. I am far from flawless. Judgement fucking rocks. Yes I am totally judgemental. I wouldn't be me if I wasn't and Master has no issue with it. I don't see that as a bad thing nor a flaw. Life evolves and continues because judgeents have to be made. I would disagree it is about morality though. Ethics - yes. But my morals are so basic and well, I don't really have any...[:D] I'm depraved... But my ethical standards are set quite high. And yes it does all come down to subjective perception. Regional or not, I wouldn't want or expect any poster to alter their personality, just because we don't match - but at the same time, I am not going to be all sweet and two faced either and just 'talk' to said person like shes a poster I can relate to - because I cannot relate to her, even though I have tried - unlike yourself who does relate to her. And I do completely appriciate that you are giving another POV and its not a personal attack. Even now, discussing this with you, for me, feels wrong and a bit invidious (on my side, not yours) without me actually saying it to her 'face' - because it's like talking about someone behind their back. Surfice to say - there is no love lost between either of us - and honestly, I wouldn't want any poster to be 'nice' or expect 'nice' from me anymore than I do from them - unless it was genuine. At the very least, if a poster such as Aileen starts a thread that requires support and I respond in it or to it, at least my words will always be genuine and not just a empty, insincere gesture. Just because I don't meld with a person, doesn't mean I cannot have empathy with them when they really need it. the.dark.

slvemike4u -> RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital (6/27/2009 9:49:56 AM)
Seems to me a great musical talent has shuffled off this mortal plane.In addition it would seem ,from a preponderance of innuendo and accusations ,a seriously flawed human being has exited the stage. While I can grieve for the loss of one so talented and one who grew up in front of our very eyes...I can feel no loss for the flawed and destructive person who had all of this controversy swirling around him.There are some things one can never forgive nor ignore.....what Michael was accused and rumored to have engaged in is at the top of my list. For those who beleive in an afterlife Michael just might be answering for those transgressions as we speak....if so....May God have mercy on his soul. Personally I'll save my thoughts for any victims and the children he left behind.

sirsholly -> RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital (6/27/2009 10:08:59 AM)
quote: And I do completely appriciate that you are giving another POV and its not a personal attack. i think LaT, Lockit and myself (and no doubt a few others as well), gave our honest feelings with no intention of hurting anyone in any way. Whereas my opinion of Michael Jackson has in no way changed, my feelings are now kept closer to the vest, as i do not wish to cause any ill feelings. There are opinions from both sides, those that liked him and those that did not. To each their own...

slvemike4u -> RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital (6/27/2009 10:17:38 AM)
It does seem a tad flipped that those who have expressed a certain disregard for his passing due to a quite natural revulsion for the acts he was accused of ....find themselves needing to justify this.

Lockit -> RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital (6/27/2009 10:27:21 AM)
Seeing as though I was one of the major poster’s that is not a fan of MJ, I am sure a lot of what is being said has been directed at me. Not just what is said here, but also in other threads. It is my morning and rough so I will try to express what I wish to say and hope that I can get it out the way I mean it. First of all, had anyone said… I am a mess over this loss, I am unable to handle something, I am so sad I can’t stop crying… Donna/Lockit would want to comfort them and anyone who knows me personally would know that. Even if I do not know someone or understand something, if a wounded person crosses my path, I am extending open arms. I don’t have to agree or understand. I have held the hands of people who were involved in things I didn’t like or think healthy or even decent in my view of the world and loved them through the pain that they often caused themselves doing something not so life smart. So I love them any less or care any less? No. I can relate to some things and some things I cannot and if that is a failure, I am sure that this situation will teach me a thing or two. One thing I cannot relate to is idolizing someone or hero worship and the feeling that someone known to the public who may have touched our lives with some musical talent during a life change or something, is something I can have some understanding of, but actual mourning, I don’t get. Maybe I will after this to some degree, but it wasn’t something I could see or understand. I was taking this thread as I do just about any other and thinking people were expressing their opinions or thoughts and sometimes there is a bit of a battle or challenge, but I personally have always felt that we can disagree without personal harm or harm to relationships, someone known to us to whatever degree, etc. I did not see the depth of the pain some might feel, whether I agree that there is reason for it or not or can understand it or not. I didn’t see or understand it. I would not step on their wound and twist my foot. That isn’t who I am. It may seem I am that way to some in pain and from things I may have said that they were hurt by and for that I am sorry, but I am not sorry I had a few opinions. If I must understand their pain it might be nice if they understood my lack of it and maybe find a way through this little disaster. I do not hate MJ. I am not sure of what he has or has not done, but I highly suspect that all was not right in his world and things were compromised and it is not too hard to believe that there may have been some inappropriate things done. In a fairly decent percentage, I do think he was guilty of some things, like not handling things and being cautious and more above suspicion. Some things just reason out for me and some don’t and those were my comments for the most part as I see it. I was shocked; literally mouth gapping when I saw that he was dead. I too, had mixed feelings and my instant feeling was, if there is a maker who judges our lives, he would be fairly dealt with without my human response to what I have seen and heard. I filtered what I had seen and heard and had a personal opinion about it. In my opinion I didn’t think for one moment that my opinion was harming anyone. Maybe a fault of mine, maybe ignorance in the moment or ignorance all way around, time will tell. I would not wish harm on anyone. But this harm can go two ways here. To those rolling their eyes and disappointed and expecting an accounting… all I can say is, wow. What we normally think people have a right to have an opinion on or thoughts of has been overridden by pain, insult and offense when no personal pain, insult or offense was intended. If that makes me no longer an occasional email buddy, then I guess I will have less and maybe more struggles posting around here. I cannot undo what some of you may feel I have done to you. I didn’t intend to do anything to you and I am sorry you were affected by something I said, but I cannot own an intent to do those things to you. My comments, response and such were directed in and around MJ. Period. Except for one post with one poster who became very personal in his posts and challenged me and others using biblical scripture to prove his point and who asked personal things in such a way that I found it offensive on a number of fronts. If I had any anger at any time it was with this poster. I actually wouldn’t call it anger and would be more likely to call it… bold and unfair in a personal manner and I had a distaste for it and little tolerance. I may not see and react to death as some do and I don’t feel the same way. I would not dance on a grave or be happy that someone died and I do not believe anything I said presented this way. I respect who I respect and don’t respect who I don’t respect in life and death. Death does not hold the same meaning to me as it apparently does for others. I feel my saying… rest in peace means very little to the one who has passed and would only serve those alive. If that makes me cruel somehow, I am sorry… but I am who I am and got to whom I am through my own life experiences. I have a very important email and some medical things to look up for a wife of a brain damaged person related to my ex husband and will not have as much time to check back to see if I have anything to answer to, but will do so when I am able.

kdsub -> RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital (6/27/2009 10:48:24 AM)
I am as guilty as any in demanding my opinions are the only truth. I will argue my point until the weight or my words suffocate those who would oppose me…especially if my reasoning is faulty. This is what I believe is happening here…good people are forgetting the true subject...Michael Jackson… and defending their rights to an opinion…over and over again. The true subject gets forgotten in anger and argument for arguments sake. Maybe we could all back off…realize that some people feel a loss at his death. We can still express sympathy for their feelings even if we don’t understand them. Those that feel offended by this lack of sympathy try to realize that many see a different and dark side of the man and find it hard to understand your feelings of hurt. Above all realize we are all the same people as yesterday but our life experiences have given us different perspectives on Michael Jackson. Me we rest in peace. Butch ps... sorry Donna this is in response to all

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