RE: are we all "equal"? (Full Version)

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OrionTheWolf -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/1/2009 8:11:37 PM)

inter pares non est potestas




Alanshoreisgod -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/1/2009 8:14:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

inter pares non est potestas


Heh, I like it.




tazzygirl -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/1/2009 8:18:35 PM)

hey Red, you have a message on the other side.




RedMagic1 -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/1/2009 8:19:00 PM)

I'll try one more time, but BSB is right (as usual), so this will be my last post on the thread.

The thread is about whether people are equals.  You might claim, "People are equal," or, "We're not better than anyone else."  However, if you make claims like, "I can tell in a moment if someone is in X profession," or, "My owner is a very good lawyer," you will sound as though you are arrogant and bragging.  That attitude looks even worse if you treat others in a condescending way.

As usual, what people say is less important than how people act.  It is, for example, a lawyer's trick to misquote me intentionally, as you did in an earlier post, or to say I was the one who kept bringing up your education, when if you read back, it was the two of you who did so.  Such behavior comes across as disingenuous, not forthright.

I hope you see a benefit to behaving differently in the future.




beargonewild -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/1/2009 8:23:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alanshoreisgod

Mainly I think that, for the most part, actually HAVING and BEING in a d/s relationship tends to strip away a lot of the fantasy, and replace it with cold hard reality, and that people who write about d/s relationships, not from the perspective of what I see to be a mature, knowledgeable adult who has lived in those relationships, experienced the ups and downs of them, and learned to adapt and evolve when reality intervenes, but instead discusses them like bad literotica porn...probably hasn't really been in one. 



Maybe...just maybe that many of these people who are writing from a perspective of their own experiences they are personally in? It also may be that living and being in a relationship which had a D/s aspect woven into it doesn't mean that the persons are immature or not seeing things in a cold hearted way.
  Seems to me that many are grossly misinterpreting the fact that one who is relating how things are is simply relating how it works for them and simply sharing which does not mean they are professing one wayism which seems to be the new buzz word. At least try to give us the benefit of the doubt that most of us either have or are in a D/s based relationship and not just some words on a computer screen: still boils down to a person is writing these words.




alanswhore -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/1/2009 8:33:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

I'll try one more time, but BSB is right (as usual), so this will be my last post on the thread.

The thread is about whether people are equals.  You might claim, "People are equal," or, "We're not better than anyone else."  However, if you make claims like, "I can tell in a moment if someone is in X profession," or, "My owner is a very good lawyer," you will sound as though you are arrogant and bragging.  That attitude looks even worse if you treat others in a condescending way.

As usual, what people say is less important than how people act.  It is, for example, a lawyer's trick to misquote me intentionally, as you did in an earlier post, or to say I was the one who kept bringing up your education, when if you read back, it was the two of you who did so.  Such behavior comes across as disingenuous, not forthright.

I hope you see a benefit to behaving differently in the future.



....it's arrogant for me to compliment my owner? Seriously? When discussing your partners, do you generally tell people that they suck at what they do?

And strangely enough, my owner and I are individuals. Judging him by the fact that I used his profession as an example of something he is good at doesn't exactly seem reasonable. I could have chosen something else, yes, but given that I respect his privacy, I went with something that he had already mentioned in passing simply to explain his username. I'm still not at all clear how it is "elitist" to say that he is better at his job than people who do not have his job, but that does not mean those people are not his equals, which was what I actually said.




variation30 -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/2/2009 1:52:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

borrowed from another thread, this had me wondering last night. the following is an article found discussing equality both in the real sense of the word, and in the sense of it being used in a D/s, BDSM way.

http://www.domsub.info/equality.shtml

to those who serve, do you feel you are equal to your owner? why or why not?

to those who control? do you feel you are equal to those who serve you? why or why not?

and to both who do not see yourselves as equal to the other person in your relationsip... do you see that inequality as inferior?


no two individuals are equal.

I see relationships as being similar to business transactions. I have something she desires, she has something I desire. we both agree to the price and accept the opportunity cost.

our roles are different as the desires we fulfill for one another are different. that is an inequality. but saying that the inequality of housework (she does more) represents inferiority or superiority is a wholly subjective value judgment. it is meaningless.




agirl -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/2/2009 3:47:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1


The thread is about whether people are equals.  You might claim, "People are equal," or, "We're not better than anyone else."  However, if you make claims like, "I can tell in a moment if someone is in X profession," or, "My owner is a very good lawyer," you will sound as though you are arrogant and bragging.  That attitude looks even worse if you treat others in a condescending way.

/quote]

It might have sounded *arrogant and bragging* to you........it certainly didn't to me. I also missed any condescention.

"I hope you see a benefit to behaving differently in the future.".... does, however, sound condescending, to me.


agirl




MsValentine -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/2/2009 4:00:59 AM)

In terms of my relationship, paul is my equal in terms of his worth a human being and input into and importance within the relationship. It cannot work on its most basic level unless we both are in it performing our necessary parts and so there is equality there. We are in love and so it is to be assumed that we are about equally in love with each other.

He is not equal in terms of access to usable power in the relationship. He gave up that kind of equality which most vanilla people appear to or claim to work towards.

I know that to all intents and purposes he is my intellectual and moral equal although of course these things cannot be scientifically proven. It is more of a ball park thing.

Outside of our relationship, he is the higher earner and so I am unequal to him in earning power at present.

Educationally, we are roughly equal my education ending up with a degree, his ending up in a professional qualification achieved whilst working.

There are so many ways in which equality can be measured and they all our valid in different contexts.




Antheia -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/2/2009 4:37:16 AM)

quote:

Such statements are unverifiable, and to sling about claims of greater education and knowledge in order to obtain "respect" on an anonymous internet forum is, frankly, elitist and lame.
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

_________________________________________________

I have to say that there are quite a few people on all the forums who claim great knowledge than others. Who attempt to make themselves look superior to everyone else. I just move on because they aren't worth my time... though they can be amusing ;)
A.

Someday I will get the hang of adding quotes lol




Missokyst -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/2/2009 6:00:25 AM)

Whew... Thanks.  I thought it was only me who had that reaction.
I looked to see where her statement sounded condescending and couldn't grab onto anything.  My x was freaking brilliant, I still say this to our clients without blinking an eye.  Not only do I not see her statement as bragging I don't see a thing wrong with saying such things about anyone you admire, whether they are in your life or not.
And holey crap yes.. the other statement.. it was like fingernails on a chalkboard.  I almost felt he was patting her on the head. 
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1


The thread is about whether people are equals.  You might claim, "People are equal," or, "We're not better than anyone else."  However, if you make claims like, "I can tell in a moment if someone is in X profession," or, "My owner is a very good lawyer," you will sound as though you are arrogant and bragging.  That attitude looks even worse if you treat others in a condescending way.

/quote]

It might have sounded *arrogant and bragging* to you........it certainly didn't to me. I also missed any condescention.

"I hope you see a benefit to behaving differently in the future.".... does, however, sound condescending, to me.


agirl





CreativeDominant -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/2/2009 7:14:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alanshoreisgod

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

and what about sadists in your philosophical question? where do they enter?


I'm not sure how "sadists" are really relevant to the question.  Sadists derive pleasure from causing pain.  Pure and simple.  That neither requires a violation of consent nor a feeling of some degree of innate "superiority.  And because being a sadist does not, in any way, invalidate my point, I'm very curious why you felt the need to bring it up.   

quote:

i guess you and going to be disturbed... alot.


I'm often disturbed by people.  Amongst the list of people that disturb me are those who seem to think that they're superior people compared to their partners (or perhaps more often than not, their hypothetical partners that they hope to have some day) because they refer to themselves in capitalized honorifics. 
If you are referring only to those who DO think they are superior and thus, use the capitalization to denote that superiority, fine...you are right, there are those who believe being the Dominant also means superiority.  But if you are referring to all dominants who use capitalization to refer to themselves while using non-caps to refer to the submissive, then you would be wrong in your assumption.  Some D-types and s-types do it to denote place within the dynamic when communicating with each other in a written fashion, not as a form of superiority.  It also lends a form of protocol to their dynamic in addition to the reinforcement of place.  Again, that is not a form of superiority. 




CreativeDominant -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/2/2009 7:26:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alanshoreisgod

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alanshoreisgod

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

true, but i dont think i am so superior that i can tell who has a D/s relationship.. no.. wait.. a successful D/s relationship.. by a few typed words on a message board.


You can tell a great deal of what people claim, based on their words.  I can tell in a moment who is, for example, actually a lawyer, or a doctor, or an accountant, and who is just claiming to be.  It's pretty easy really.  There are those who seem to know what they're talking about, and those that don't.

And fakers of all persuasions are generally easy to pick out by those with actual knowledge and experience. 



OK, you had me for a nonce, I thought you were an erstwhile actor on 'Boston Legal', but now you claim to be the 'Amazing Kreskin'.

Ok, who am I?  What do I do?

"in walks the village idiot, and his face is all aglow, he's been up all night listenin' to Mohammed's radio............"

Warren Zevon  



My guess?  Based on your posts, you're a DJ on a '60s radio station *nods*

My curiosity is aroused also.  I've stated on various posts what I do for a living.  Tell me...is what I have stated about my profession true or am I a faker?




tazzygirl -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/2/2009 7:34:07 AM)

so you dont think its arrogant to make the claim that you can tell who is in a "real" D/s relationship based upon posts on a message board? or that you can tell who are professionals and who arent?




Andalusite -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/2/2009 8:30:27 AM)

I think that weird capitalisation indicates inferior usage of the English language.[:'(] It's not a big deal, and presumably, most people who use it do know better, but it's slightly irritating.

tazzygirl, I agree that could be considered arrogant, but when someone posts that they have a Master who they've never met, and that they've never done any D/s or S/M or bondage in person, yeah, I'm going to take their claim of any knowledge of D/s with a huge bag of salt! A lot of people here seem to have pretty unrealistic, fantasy-oriented expectations. When they are expressed, I tend to assume that the person hasn't actually done the things they're talking about, unless I find out otherwise. I don't try to judge other people's relationships if they actually are involved with someone in person - for example, it's not up to me to dictate whether they are a submissive, a slave, or a bottom.




tazzygirl -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/2/2009 8:46:46 AM)

i agree, its not up to anyone to judge another's relationship.

but, keep in mind, those people who say they have never met... are being honest. they havent led anyone on, as someone on this thread implied. they are real about their relationships. typically these are people who dont claim any knowledge, they are seeking it.

a question for you. if someone doesnt state, one way or the other, do you assume they are in a relationship or not?

~to no one other than those whose foot it fits

but, on another note

i would take the word of a couple who actually live together, seeking answers, displaying their kinky thoughts and desires, over someone who is in a part time relationship and tossing around huge words on a message board, belittling others, after making up new accounts.

and now, i am finished with this thread. my answers were revealed. i dont doubt no ones minds were changed. the exchange of ideas help tp understand one another better, when we all arent being told how fake and ignorant we are.




DavanKael -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/2/2009 9:36:34 AM)

If I start viewing someone with whom I am in a relationship as inferior, it's probably time to go.  If they view themsleves as superior to me, it's probably time to go.  Despite power dynamics, I do expect a partner with whom I may stand toe to toe, acknowledging, of course, that we all have our strengths and differences. 
  Davan




OrionTheWolf -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/2/2009 9:37:52 AM)

Yes I am superior to my slave, as noted by definition 1 and 2  from www.thefreedictionary.com :

su·pe·ri·or
play_w2("S0898600")


 (s[image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/oobreve.gif[/image]-pîr[image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gif[/image][image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/emacr.gif[/image]-[image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/schwa.gif[/image]r)
adj.
1. Higher than another in rank, station, or authority: a superior officer.2. Of a higher nature or kind.3. Of great value or excellence; extraordinary.4. Greater in number or amount than another: an army defeated by superior numbers of enemy troops.5. Affecting an attitude of disdain or conceit; haughty and supercilious. My slave is inferior to me as noted by definition 1 from www.thefreedictionary.comin·fe·ri·or
play_w2("I0127900")


 ([image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ibreve.gif[/image]n-fîr[image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gif[/image][image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/emacr.gif[/image]-[image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/schwa.gif[/image]r)
adj.
1. Low or lower in order, degree, or rank: Captain is an inferior rank to major.2.
a. Low or lower in quality, value, or estimation: inferior craft; felt inferior to his older sibling.b. Second-rate; poor: an inferior translation.3. Situated under or beneath. Not sure why people get hung up on those words. Maybe it is something that should be reflected on inwardly.




CreativeDominant -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/2/2009 9:44:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Yes I am superior to my slave, as noted by definition 1 and 2  from www.freedictionary.com :

su·pe·ri·or
play_w2("S0898600")


 (s[image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/oobreve.gif[/image]-pîr[image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gif[/image][image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/emacr.gif[/image]-[image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/schwa.gif[/image]r)
adj.
1. Higher than another in rank, station, or authority: a superior officer.2. Of a higher nature or kind.3. Of great value or excellence; extraordinary.4. Greater in number or amount than another: an army defeated by superior numbers of enemy troops.5. Affecting an attitude of disdain or conceit; haughty and supercilious. My slave is inferior to me as noted by definition 1 from www.dictionary.comin·fe·ri·or
play_w2("I0127900")


 ([image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ibreve.gif[/image]n-fîr[image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gif[/image][image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/emacr.gif[/image]-[image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/schwa.gif[/image]r)
adj.
1. Low or lower in order, degree, or rank: Captain is an inferior rank to major.2.
a. Low or lower in quality, value, or estimation: inferior craft; felt inferior to his older sibling.b. Second-rate; poor: an inferior translation.3. Situated under or beneath. Not sure why people get hung up on those words. Maybe it is something that should be reflected on inwardly.

Nicely stated Orion...and another angle worth contemplating when looking at a D/s or M/s dynamic.




tazzygirl -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/2/2009 9:46:12 AM)

hi Master Orion

hard to resist responding to a gorean man. ~grins~

and yes, by the definitions, you supplied, i am helpless but to agree with you. Master made the comment last night "you are not allowed to view yourself as inferior. that is for me to determine." sometimes, a simple explanation is all that is needed.

thank you for your post

well wishes

tazzy




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