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RE: Do You Have Any Idea What You Are Asking? - 7/11/2009 9:17:35 AM

lovingpet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

I want to be owned.
I want to wear your collar.
Break me please.

In 20 years of owning slaves I'd say that every single one of them (with the exception of those who had lived as slaves before) knew what they were asking for when they said that. They were thinking about some fantasy that they had, or some erotica that they had read that made them go all wet between their thighs and asking that I make that fantasy or fictional story real for them.

What they had less idea about was what I had in mind when I agreed to take them, despite my best efforts to educate them about that. For some of them, what I was saying matched closely what they had been fantasizing about. For others, they figured they'd alter the situation to their liking, at least somewhat, once they were collared.

The trouble with fantasies is that they are episodic by their very nature. You fantasize about a certain scenario or situation that usually has a duration of a few seconds to a few minutes. It is very difficult to fantasize about what a whole day would be like, much less what it's going to be like to live as a collared slave long term. That's something that a slave learns as they go. No way around it.

So the question might become how do you mitigate this? Is there any way to temper the potential fallout from these expectations not being well understood or flat out wrong? Do you really WANT to do so? Are there benefits to letting reality sink in little by little after the fact?

Now there are a few crazy gals out there (guys, too, but anyhow) that really do seem to get it at a level that is not common. Their heads are far beyond the fantasy, they take it seriously, and do their best to have no naive ideas or expectations. Even so, long term implications are a little difficult to gauge without having lived it (which once again, it's too late). I just am failing to see how one can keep even the best of intentioned relationships from, at the very least, faultering severely given this. Add to this that beyond the fantasy and the very basic reality is the specifics of these things occuring with a given person with their own traditions, rites, expectations, and background. The last thing a serious, but new submissive wants in a lot of cases is a velcro collar. How, then, can it be prevented?

lovingpet

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RE: Do You Have Any Idea What You Are Asking? - 7/11/2009 9:57:26 AM

Leonidas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

Even so, long term implications are a little difficult to gauge without having lived it (which once again, it's too late). I just am failing to see how one can keep even the best of intentioned relationships from, at the very least, faultering severely given this. Add to this that beyond the fantasy and the very basic reality is the specifics of these things occuring with a given person with their own traditions, rites, expectations, and background. The last thing a serious, but new submissive wants in a lot of cases is a velcro collar. How, then, can it be prevented?

I can tell you, but the answer is probably going to be a little mundane for your liking.

The collared slave has to percieve that being kept as a collared slave is in their best interests. In other words, they are actually happier and doing better in life under the discipline and control of someone else than they would on their own.

My current slave is no masochist. She hates to get her butt spanked. She finds it very embarrassing and humilliating, not to mention painful. Add to that the fact that she has something of a rebellious streak, so, she gets herself in trouble from time to time. She also chafes a little from time to time at being kept under discipline and having most important decisions made for her. She sometimes feels sorry for herself, or that she's somehow defective because she can't live more like a "regular grownup". All of that said, here she is, still firmly in my collar after 5 years, and she'd be terrified, more or less, at any suggestion of being released. Why?

She's doing better in life. She earns triple now what she did 5 years ago. Her relationships with her children, and parents, and others in her life are better than they were. Her self-esteem is better overall than it was when I took her. She's healthier. She gets more pleasure from sex, and life in general, than she did before. That is what keeps a slave in a collar long term. It has to genuinely be where they belong.

For most people who would call themselves "Master" or "Mistress", that's not a comforting assertion. It puts a great deal of onus on them to manage someone else's life better than they would have managed it themselves. If you're looking to avoid the "velcro collar" though, that really is what it takes.

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 7/11/2009 10:00:48 AM >

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RE: Do You Have Any Idea What You Are Asking? - 7/11/2009 10:12:54 AM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas
For most people who would call themselves "Master" or "Mistress", that's not a comforting assertion. It puts a great deal of onus on them to manage someone else's life better than they would have managed it themselves. If you're looking to avoid the "velcro collar" though, that really is what it takes.

*palms face* Really? So you actually need to... you know... be worth something to the slave in question? Whodathunkit?

More seriously, I so agree with this assertion. Fundamentally, the way a collar stays on past any sort of fantasy period is that the benefits to the one collared are well grounded in reality.

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~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: Do You Have Any Idea What You Are Asking? - 7/11/2009 10:55:32 AM

lovingpet

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Mundane? But isn't that the whole point? It isn't some potion or hocus pocus. I do tend to agree with both you gentlemen. Though we have not officially moved into the collaring stage, this is why I stay. This is a person who is good for me and our relationship is one that also brings out the best IN me. Not all relationships will do that with or without a power dynamic. With a power dynamic in place, however, it is really down to the character of the dominant to be someone who will spur the positive things within the submissive and is interested in the well being of each of them and the relationship.

That being said, I can see the frustration on the part of the submissive to some extent. Why is it that only under the hand of someone else she progresses and does well? I can see that being very irritating to some, myself included. If she is anything like me, she can produce this in others. It is that neutral perspective that is needed with regard to things in which her personal investment clouds her judgement. It is also that what she does with her life affects another person whose opinion of her matters. How about simply being happy and content? Those things naturally help us live better lives.

The submissive sometimes views it as some kind of weakness to need this control to do her best in life, but it simply isn't the case. Provided someone found the right person for the job, many people would benefit from such insights from others. The difference is, she does not have the luxury of dismissing it. Imagine all the good advice that people wish they had taken not having been walked away from. Life would have been so much better and easier. Basically, that's what happens here. She cannot walk away from it and has no choice but to do it even if she is hell bent she is right and the dominant is wrong. She trusts him and does it anyway or suffers both the consequences from him and those she brings down on herself when she would have been better off handling it the way he had told her to in the first place.

Yes, oh dear, the responsibility for these dominant ones! I don't envy them for it and know what I have to measure up to as well should I find that role with someone. I hope I always do all I can to both never take nor give a velcro collar. That's why I post some of the questions I do. I enjoy the wise counsel of others. Thanks to all!

lovingpet

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RE: Do You Have Any Idea What You Are Asking? - 7/11/2009 11:08:50 AM

SnareMage85

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Mine knew what she wanted, and knows what she's offering. She was in a really bad M/s before she and I met.

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People are stupid. They will believe anything they want, or fear, to be true.

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RE: Do You Have Any Idea What You Are Asking? - 7/12/2009 6:07:50 AM

daddysliloneds

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since i'm the bottom half of the equation, i'll offer something that just happened to me, yet in the opposite form, when discussing our relationship.

him: i don't see you relocating in the near future
me: you've never mentioned it to me prior to this; do you want me to move in? are you footing the bill? can i at least get my kid into his dorm room next month before we worry about this?

him: you smoke
me: just as i have since the day i met you; so?

him: family comes first to you
me: yeah, so, i only have one family member, am i supposed to pretend that i'm not a mother?

him: you're very sexual and i'm getting older
me: huh?

the outcome: exactly what he wanted by displaying such passive/aggressive behavior and not giving me any clue as to anything being wrong in the last three years...

i wished him well in his search and never looked back.

the moral of this little story is that people on both sides of the equation don't always have any idea what they are asking because people don't always use their brain.

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RE: Do You Have Any Idea What You Are Asking? - 7/12/2009 10:25:54 AM

lovingpet

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So sorry to hear about this! As much as we all talk about communication and such, it is simply astounding how much falls through the cracks sometimes. I will hope that it will be something you can grow from and help you when you are ready to enter a new relationship. I do think it is the bad things in life that ultimately help us be stronger, wiser, and grow toward a better future. At least we now know what DOESN't work. Now we can pursue what we do all the better.

lovingpet

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RE: Do You Have Any Idea What You Are Asking? - 7/12/2009 11:12:11 AM

Musicmystery

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pet,

You have already had excellent advice, including answers to your questions. I mention this not to chastise, but to note for you that you are in fact illustrating the problem. Predictably, as girls often do, you will go on to find potential problem after problem, reason after reason why submitting is a bad idea. In our culture, that's just not hard, let alone the nature of things.

I, and others who have commented, have seen such a girl settle down and happily prosper with the guidance of her owner. Under his direction, she doesn't need to go spinning in multiple directions, and when she starts to do so again, he grounds her. Other than at times, however, that can't happen before hand. The girl must first be tamed or choose to submit.

So ask yourself whether you wish to continue as you are. Leave behind the excuses and the justifications (again, not a criticism--I mean the ones you tell yourself inside your head), but look instead deep inside yourself and decide to stay as you are or to grow in new directions, and if so, what new directions.

All purposeful change takes decision and overcoming doubts. This is no exception. Live as you are or move to new experiences. A girl must take responsibility too, for one direction or the other.

Live well.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 7/12/2009 11:15:43 AM >

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RE: Do You Have Any Idea What You Are Asking? - 7/12/2009 12:50:00 PM

lovingpet

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I am not quite sure what to say. I have expressed that my relationship is one in which I am quite happy and fulfilled. The "official" portions aside, I am his. I know my place, the expectations he has, and remain. I am not sure why it seems otherwise. I do have my struggles and questions, but he is there to guide me through them.

Decision is simple. Growth and change are difficult. I certainly don't feel any need to be upset by whatever doubts or fears creep it. Bringing them out in the open and giving them over, very intentionally, to him is always the best thing I can do. It is not, however, always the thing I want to do. I am fallible.

I came here not only looking for a bit of understanding about this question of my motives that he has asked more than once in response to my expressed desires. I also have another side to me that will need to know how to best assess these desires in others should the time come for me to take a submissive of my own. I am learning and growing. I consider myself still very new (3 years total since my awareness and only one actively engaging with others). I greatly benefit from the counsel of others. That is my only reason for posting this thread.

This thread has gone in a few directions, al beneficial in answering my OP. I am appreciative for the depth of commentary and the patience with my questions. I hope by expanding on my original idea, I haven't intruded somehow. I am looking to do my best both now and in the future.

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