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RE: Addressing Me As Sir - 7/4/2009 6:10:25 AM   
daddysliloneds


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Joined: 6/28/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn
...<snip>Do I need to change this way of thinking?


yes.

(in reply to Esinn)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Addressing Me As Sir - 7/4/2009 6:31:34 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


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quote:

When a sub addresses me as sir off the bat I view it as a 'weakness'. I see it as a red-flag or 'con-artist'(sometimes). Reminds me of a child who calls everyone sir/ma'am because it is socially acceptable. They might not understand why they do it. In the office co-workers who call managers "MR/MRS" shocks me. Regardless of my title at work I have a name.

If I have not yet requested it yet or this is how I am initially addressed it seems fake. If this is how she addresses everyone when used appropriately it looses power - no?

Do I need to change this way of thinking?


I think that only -you- can decide whether or not you need to change your way of thinking, and, if you are a wise man, you'll reach that conclusion after doing exactly what you've done, and obtaining information that will help you to make your decision.

Now, for a little information...

I am not a submissive individual, however, it is possible that, in the course of events, I might actually call you 'sir'. I was raised with certain courtesies, and have, over the years, developed my own preferred affectations, so if you are unfamiliar to me, and are male, I will address you as 'sir' because, to me, that is a generalized courtesy. In the same way, a servant in our household would address you as 'sir', not because xhe is a con-artist, and not because xhe wants anything from you at all, but because that is how xhe is directed to address you by the protocols that we abide by. In the same way, I prefer to be addressed as "ma'am", "dame", "dama", or "madam" by those who self-identify as 'submissive'. To me, these are common courtesies that also recognize that I do self-identify as a freewoman.

In the same way, were we to come to know one another, I might call you 'dear', or 'hon'. These, to me, are not diminutives, and are also not gender-biased. They are, coming from me, a sign that I've begun to think of a person more as a close associate or friend. This is an affectation of both how I was raised and where I live (where such is reinforced by local culture).

What follows is my opinion. I think that, if an individual is using a term of courtesy when addressing someone, that the -courtesy- should be recognized. I may not prefer a certain form of address (as in being addressed as "mistress"), but I also recognize that, until a person knows me, or until I have the chance to -say- something, it makes sense that a person will address me, if being courteous, in the term that -they- feel provides the greatest courtesy in a given situation. Rather than thinking the -worst- of someone in such a situation, I will often give the benefit of the doubt. If I'm not going to encounter that person again, I will typically not even bother to correct hir form of address, for, if xhe is being courteous, it isn't worth getting bent out of shape about.

If I -am- going to be encountering this person again, or we will be interacting, in some form (including on the boards), on a regular basis, I will typically very -gently- and neutrally let the person know how I prefer to be addressed. I also let people who read my profile know that I have a preference in how I am addressed. However, I also have to say that, of all the issues facing one of authoritarian mien, which courtesy honorific is used is less important, to me, than the fact that the person has attempted to be courteous at all... at least, until we've had the opportunity to discuss the issue.

Dame Calla

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to Esinn)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Addressing Me As Sir - 7/4/2009 7:05:11 AM   
littlegirllucy


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Well i was raised to address grown men as Sir, and women and Ma'am by my Father.  I call men Sir at work and out and about in my normal vanilla life.  I believe men deserve the respect of being called Sir until They prove otherwise.  So, yes, any Dominant that comes into contact with me I will call Sir unless they are rude, etc.  I am married to my Master so definitely not a sign of "weakness" or being a "fake" for me.

(in reply to Esinn)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Addressing Me As Sir - 7/4/2009 7:33:15 AM   
leadership527


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Joined: 6/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn
Do I need to change this way of thinking?

No, although I would, perhaps modify it a bit. I register honorifics the same way that you do. If the sub in question does not know me, then it is simply empty verbiage to reinforce some sort of fantasy in the subs mind. In fact, for this reason, I do not command Carol to call me anything in particular and I seldom command her to kneel.

What I would suggest though, is that you have to be careful with your interpretations of other people's thoughts. If some strange woman calls me "sir", I just shrug it off and continue with the conversation. I'll find out through detailed discussion whether she's one of the "lost in fantasy" girls or not. It also might simply have been some sort of previous training or her own personal inclination.


_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Esinn)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Addressing Me As Sir - 7/4/2009 7:45:00 AM   
LadyPact


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I would agree with Jeff that it needs to be modified.  While you have your opinions, please remember that other people have theirs as well.  What you have said here could also be interpreted as you seeing some submissives as "weak" even though they may be following the protocol that the Dominant has in place for them.  Or, perhaps you are suggesting that s types who attend leather, protocol, and other events are "weak" as well.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Addressing Me As Sir - 7/4/2009 9:21:37 AM   
SarahnNV


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Wow, You've gotten quite the gambit of responses here and here i am to add my 2 cents' worth.  i was raised from Day One to call anyone older than i, "Sir or Ma'am" and found later that it was a term of respect to address anyone one meets as such.  It is up to the receiver of such protocols to have the option to say, "Nice to meet you, please call me..."  Until that permission is granted, whether here or at a party or at work or wherever, i will be using "Sir" or "Ma'am". 

Having said that, i once responded "Good morning, Sir" to a Dom's initial contact with me and got ripped into badly as He informed me that i was a player and 'blah blah blah...'  for what seemed an hour but was probably only thirty seconds.  LOL  This was when i was brand new to defining my submission and new to CM, and DANG!  i decided this pond was WAAAAAY too deep for my first swim!  It took me almost a month to feel it was safe to test the waters again!

(in reply to IrishMist)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Addressing Me As Sir - 7/4/2009 11:54:46 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

When a sub addresses me as sir off the bat I view it as a 'weakness'.  I see it as a red-flag or 'con-artist'(sometimes). 



I agree with your point around social niceities; I personally find them meaningless - though I wouldn't go as far as to say that they indicate weakness.

And I would say you make another good point which is that where such a hierarchy of titles is to have meaning then surely the title must be earned.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

If I have not yet requested it yet or this is how I am initially addressed it seems fake.  If this is how she addresses everyone when used appropriately it looses power - no?

Do I need to change this way of thinking?



I have no intention of anyone on this planet calling me sir or master - please me through your actions as opposed to your words; after all talk is cheap.

But I think you'd be closing a few doors were you to discount someone purely on the grounds that they addressed you as sir in an initial mail. Why not say there's no need for the formalities and see how the conversation goes?

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 7/4/2009 11:56:30 AM >


_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Esinn)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Addressing Me As Sir - 7/4/2009 2:38:15 PM   
CelticPrince


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Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

I am new(er) here.  I have strong personal opinions about things that I will share.  On occasion I am open to being wrong.

Respect is something which I demonstrate through actions I am worthy to have.  Knowing things are done just for me or the select group the she feels are worthy is one of the things I 'get off on.'  Call it an ego trip knowing I am that good.  More so it is knowing she let me in. I am called sir or kneeled before on request because I deserve it.

When a sub addresses me as sir off the bat I view it as a 'weakness'.  I see it as a red-flag or 'con-artist'(sometimes).  Reminds me of a child who calls everyone sir/ma'am because it is socially acceptable.  They might not understand why they do it.  In the office co-workers who call managers "MR/MRS" shocks me.  Regardless of my title at work I have a name.

If I have not yet requested it yet or this is how I am initially addressed it seems fake.  If this is how she addresses everyone when used appropriately it looses power - no?

Do I need to change this way of thinking?

*No disrespect implied and I do not have in mind play parties, play partners or situations where roles might be 'predetermined'


quote:

I am new(er) here. I have strong personal opinions about things that I will share. On occasion I am open to being wrong.

Respect is something which I demonstrate through actions I am worthy to have. Knowing things are done just for me or the select group the she feels are worthy is one of the things I 'get off on.' Call it an ego trip knowing I am that good. More so it is knowing she let me in. I am called sir or kneeled before on request because I deserve it.

When a sub addresses me as sir off the bat I view it as a 'weakness'. I see it as a red-flag or 'con-artist'(sometimes). Reminds me of a child who calls everyone sir/ma'am because it is socially acceptable. They might not understand why they do it. In the office co-workers who call managers "MR/MRS" shocks me. Regardless of my title at work I have a name.

If I have not yet requested it yet or this is how I am initially addressed it seems fake. If this is how she addresses everyone when used appropriately it looses power - no?

Do I need to change this way of thinking?

*No disrespect implied and I do not have in mind play parties, play partners or situations where roles might be 'predetermined'

Profile
Esinn,

As you note, your new here and perhaps to the path in general.
Your concerns are misplaced, in my opinion.
Most subs that have been in the lifestyle awhile will use the salutation as a general recognition of respect to a Dominant in general.

I suspect that those that will not earn the respect throught poor behavior will some see the "sir" disappear.

CP

(in reply to Esinn)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Addressing Me As Sir - 7/4/2009 3:16:19 PM   
vasha


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if i dont know you, i likely wont title you at all, altho i'll still be respectful.  Titles are earned.   unless of corse my owner has me in high protcol, then... yeah,  every dominant is Sir, or Ma'am. 

< Message edited by vasha -- 7/4/2009 3:40:59 PM >

(in reply to IrishMist)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Addressing Me As Sir - 7/4/2009 3:29:31 PM   
LilKittenSub


Posts: 39
Joined: 9/20/2007
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When I was trained, I was ordered to call all Doms and Dommes as Sir or Miss. One Master I was with even insisted that I put other subs above me and address them as Miss. I do not still address other subs this way, but I have always addressed dominants in such a manner as a show of respect for the position they have taken in the lifestyle. I will of course change it if asked, and do know a few Doms and Dommes who prefer I use their name instead of the title. I really think it depends on the sub in question, and how they were trained.

_____________________________

“How delicious to corrupt, to stifle all semblances of virtue and religion in that young heart!”
--Marquis De Sade

(in reply to IrishMist)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Addressing Me As Sir - 7/4/2009 5:32:38 PM   
Firebirdseeking


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I agree totally.  Using Sir or Ma'am in the course of one's life, as a general means of addressing people is one thing.  For anyone who professes to be a dominant or a Master to insist on being called "Sir" up front is preposterous to me.  It feels demeaning and disrespectful to me.  I dont do it and I didnt do it and my Sir is just fine with that.  I am of the opinion that if one has to insist on being addressed as Sir by anyone and everyone, then there is an ego problem. 

(in reply to lizi)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Addressing Me As Sir - 7/7/2009 2:45:21 PM   
MMagic


Posts: 183
Joined: 2/9/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

I am new(er) here.  I have strong personal opinions about things that I will share.  On occasion I am open to being wrong.

Respect is something which I demonstrate through actions I am worthy to have.  Knowing things are done just for me or the select group the she feels are worthy is one of the things I 'get off on.'  Call it an ego trip knowing I am that good.  More so it is knowing she let me in. I am called sir or kneeled before on request because I deserve it.

When a sub addresses me as sir off the bat I view it as a 'weakness'.  I see it as a red-flag or 'con-artist'(sometimes).  Reminds me of a child who calls everyone sir/ma'am because it is socially acceptable.  They might not understand why they do it.  In the office co-workers who call managers "MR/MRS" shocks me.  Regardless of my title at work I have a name.

If I have not yet requested it yet or this is how I am initially addressed it seems fake.  If this is how she addresses everyone when used appropriately it looses power - no?

Do I need to change this way of thinking?

*No disrespect implied and I do not have in mind play parties, play partners or situations where roles might be 'predetermined'



Interesting that this was brought up, my own Sir and I have an on going thing about my calling him Sir.  I feel it's impersonal for the very reasons you state above.  I was forced to use it as a child and didn't really know why and when I got older I felt people had to earn my respect in order to be referred to as that and older still, I use it with everyone but it's more out of joviality than anything to do with respect.  HOWEVER as I explained to my Sir that if it's what he wishes to be called then I'll do it because I DO respect him and it's what he wants.  But still because we're both pig headed, I gripe that it's just not personal enough, considering how I feel about him.

Interesting topic.




_____________________________

Between two evils, I always pick the one I never tried before. -Mae West



(in reply to Esinn)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Addressing Me As Sir - 7/7/2009 4:12:35 PM   
jeninvegas


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Hm, I've got mixed opinions on this one.  I would say that it depends on the crowd I am in and whom I am with.  I certainly do not address everybody as Sir or Ma'am right off the bat though.  However, if I know it is a friend of people I know and respect already, I will address them with proper respect. Giving a Dom/Master my utmost respect and submission does not lie on how I address him but rather my actions towards him.  I do not kneel before everybody's feet.  Or beg, kiss, bow, etc etc unless I am giving that person all of my submission and respect.

_____________________________

"If you're going through hell, keep going..." -Winston Churchill

"9 out of 10 guys like girls with big boobs; the 10th guy likes the 9 other men." --Just Shoot Me

"Baby, when it's love, if it's not rough, it isn't fun." Lady GaGa.

(in reply to IrishMist)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Addressing Me As Sir - 7/7/2009 6:50:27 PM   
Domn8guys


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I generally see it as a sign of respect if a sub calls me Sir straight away. It's a recognition of the dynamic we're negotiating. I usually advise that the use of "Master" or "Mistress" should be earned. Sir or Ma'am simply is a sign of polite respect and to me is a cue regarding the difference between a sub who is interested in pursuing a relationship and a sub who just wants to chat about BDSM in general.

Frankly, everyone has different views, and it is important to communicate your expectations to each other from the outset.

(in reply to IrishMist)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: x - 7/8/2009 1:11:37 PM   
littleone35


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The only time i use sir is when i am writing a letter even then i usually write dear sir or madam. When talking to people online for the first time i will say hi ( insert screen name). In everyday situations i will say mr or ms( and i live in the USA).I was raised to be polite just not to call men sir.

If Master wanted me to call him Sir of couse i would. Master however was a Capitan in the Army and he go sired enough there he said. He said in private i call him Master and in public Matt.

To the Op only change your way of thinking if you want to.

Matt's littleone

(in reply to littlegirllucy)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: x - 7/8/2009 1:21:53 PM   
Missokyst


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From my observation sir is required more by people who need their own position validated and has nothing to do with our showing "proper respect".  For those that tell you it is the proper way to do things, you have to realise it is in their own little world.
Do what feels right for you and make it known from the onset the way you mean things to go on until things change.
Kyst

(in reply to littleone35)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Addressing Me As Sir - 7/8/2009 4:51:59 PM   
Drifa


Posts: 547
Joined: 7/27/2007
From: Rural Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn
<snipped>When a sub addresses me as sir off the bat I view it as a 'weakness'.  I see it as a red-flag or 'con-artist'(sometimes).  Reminds me of a child who calls everyone sir/ma'am because it is socially acceptable.  They might not understand why they do it.  In the office co-workers who call managers "MR/MRS" shocks me.  Regardless of my title at work I have a name.<snipped>


By your profile I see you do not live in the south... though I could have discerned that from your attitude about titles as well. It's not uncommon in the southern states to use sir or ma'am to anyone.  It's a politeness. I don't use it in the "if sir permits" kind of third person construction, which I find affected. I always use Mr. or Mrs. to people's parents and elderly relatives, and to vice presidents and sector chiefs unless they make it clear that they prefer a more casual address.

I have a name. I hate people using it as if they are my best bosom buddy, especially when they don't know me from Adam and are trying to sell me something. Worse yet is when some yahoo trying to sell me something feels free to use a diminutive of my given name. I see that as total unwanted initmacy and disrespect. In a business transaction, I want to be addressed by my surname until and unless I give permission to be on more familiar terms.

But overall, some of how you feel about honorifics has to do with regional usages and your age.


(in reply to Esinn)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Addressing Me As Sir - 7/8/2009 10:25:37 PM   
Esinn


Posts: 886
Joined: 6/23/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: seekerof

I teach my children to say "Sir" or Ma'am" to all unfamiliar adults. I am thrilled if you do not. Some day your child and mine might be up for the same job......


Hey!  Thanks everyone!  There were a lot of intelligent replies here.  It surly gives me something to think about.  Well, some were lacking in intelligence a little.

Seeker,  I too will be thrilled when my daughter and your child apply for the same job.  I taught my daughter how to wield a bat and I assure your child will not make it to the front door.

Come on?  You trying to cut my throat here because I am seeking opinions of others?   This was an honest question.  I have all sides of my neck tattooed and might get my throat done soon.  I never wear a suit to interviews.  The fact I address my boss as a friend/equal(not calling them sir) or do not cover my tattoos has no impact on my ability to do the job much better than you can.  I am and always have been a top performer. Any fool in management who does not hire me because they were not addressed as sir does not deserve me.  I can understand my tattoos in some cases. . . .

Piss off

--Esinn

(in reply to seekerof)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Addressing Me As Sir - 7/8/2009 11:44:48 PM   
Danemora


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     If being addressed as sir by someone bothers you, how about saying something about it from the get go?  Set them in their place about it from the start and perhaps offer an alternative.  Rather than making snap judgment assumptions about their motivation behind doing it or that they are weak for doing it.  To some, its a form of being respectful towards another.  What honestly is so wrong with that?

As far as the whole bat wielding kid thing goes, that wasnt cool.  Not that I think you give a rip about it, but the blessing of living free is speaking my mind when needed.  But seriously....does it really require this whole badass e-thug attitude?

edit...this should be directed towards Esinn and not to IrishMist.  Sorry for the confusion

< Message edited by Danemora -- 7/8/2009 11:50:20 PM >

(in reply to IrishMist)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Addressing Me As Sir - 7/9/2009 6:08:31 AM   
Missokyst


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LOL yes that was an inappropriate response.  I had visions of people going for job interviews with hopeful expectations and some thug girl popping off their heads to make sure there were no other contenders for the job.  Wow.. talk about overkill!
Brute force to win a job?  Only if you plan to be an extreme fighter.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: Danemora
As far as the whole bat wielding kid thing goes, that wasnt cool.  Not that I think you give a rip about it, but the blessing of living free is speaking my mind when needed.  But seriously....does it really require this whole badass e-thug attitude?

edit...this should be directed towards Esinn and not to IrishMist.  Sorry for the confusion

(in reply to Danemora)
Profile   Post #: 60
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