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Children and BDSM lifestyle????? - 7/3/2009 11:49:38 AM

LdyWintershade

Posts: 41
Joined: 6/9/2009
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I recently saw the post on 'those with children' and envisioned a different topic, altogether. That discussion was more about how to schedule play in a BDSM relationship when there were children in the house. (a good topic to be sure), however I have a different question....two, actually.
1) What are people's thoughts to the application of authority by a Dominant to the children of their sub/slave?
Let me be clear, I am not condoning or condemning at this point, just asking for feedback on both of these questions. I have had friends, both subs/Dom/mes who have seen this become an issue. Some of these Dominants feel that the children have no place in BDSM and others feel that anything that is their slave's is, by default theirs and they can set rules for. Now, I'm not talking about making the children serve....but the Dom/mes feel they have a right to set the household chores, rules, boundaries etc for their slaves' kids.
On the other side of it, many subs/slaves feel that while they have consented to their own submission, their children are out of bounds and they alone are responsible for determining how their children are raised.

2) I have seen many subs/slaves on this site who claim to have been 'raised' in the lifestyle and having served since their young teen years. What do people think about this? Granted, there is always the possibility that these profiles I've read are simply 'padding their resume' or just blatantly full of BS...but I am curious as to what others think about this.

For now, that is all I have to say on the matter. Extremely interested in viewing replies to these questions. Thanks for listening.

Post #: 1

RE: Children and BDSM lifestyle????? - 7/3/2009 12:15:25 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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1) depends. if its just a BDSM or lifestyle relationship, then its kept to that level in my life. if its a living arrangement, ei: 24/7, then yes, i would consider his desires as well as my own. after all, at that point, we are both raising them.

2) i was raised since age 8 to view men through submissive eyes. they were fed first, their wishes were always taken into consideration, the house was cleaned to my father's standards. meals, vacations.. most everything was approved and prepared for his tastes and by his wishes. when i say i was raised to be submissive towards men, that is what i mean. i was also taught to stand up for myself, respectfully. men were deferred too... my mother taught me the ways of a woman ~grins (and no, i dont mean sexual)

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LdyWintershade)

Post #: 2

RE: Children and BDSM lifestyle????? - 7/3/2009 12:18:51 PM

lobodomslavery

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i think anyone who get u18s involved regardless of orientation sub/domme/switch should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. it is nothing more than blatant child abuse to force a person who cannot give consent to serve another in a BDSM capacity
kevin

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 3

RE: Children and BDSM lifestyle????? - 7/4/2009 6:19:59 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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I have chosen him as my dominant, they have not and cannot since as minors by definition they are incapable of making such a decision.

Now to the practicalities; what he has done is earned their respect, and inspired them to turn to him for advice and help in a crisis.

But we are both of the belief that our assorted brood - his and mine - are to be raised with respect, seeing a relationship in which both parties like and respect each other and seek solutions that are best for all. Whether they choose a power relationship or not is of less importance than if they choose a healthy relationship where everyone is happy and fulfilled.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to lobodomslavery)

Post #: 4

RE: Children and BDSM lifestyle????? - 7/4/2009 6:57:11 AM

CallaFirestormBW

Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
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For us, in a blended household that is a -family- first and where the authority-transfer aspects and protocol aspects are secondary to that familial focus, this issue was a matter of household authority. Just like in any other household, "apples" were expected to respect the authority of their elders, and to respect the hierarchy of the household. This meant that, when I came into the House, I accepted the authority of certain members of the Household, and my "apples" were also expected to respect that, in the House, they were subject to the authority of the patriarch and matriarch of the household. This meant that, if my apples were behaving inappropriately, they were corrected by whichever adult members of the household caught them out, and the infraction was relayed to The Bladewing and to myself. When I accepted The Bladewing sufficient to bring my apples into that place, I had already accepted (and let my apples know) that I respected that he was the primary authority of the household.

Now, with that being said, most of the time when my apples stepped out of line or didn't complete their chores (which all of us consider to be a vital part of being a family), typically -I- was informed, so that I could address the issue with them on my own terms. Though it didn't need to be that way, it was one of the ways that I knew that The Bladewing and House Bladewing were truly the person and house that I could offer my loyalty to.

quote:

2) I have seen many subs/slaves on this site who claim to have been 'raised' in the lifestyle and having served since their young teen years. What do people think about this? Granted, there is always the possibility that these profiles I've read are simply 'padding their resume' or just blatantly full of BS...but I am curious as to what others think about this.

I'd have to ask what you mean by 'serving'. Our apples... -all- of them... serve the household, because we believe -strongly- that an apple learns to cherish family and to understand the responsibilities of living in a communal situation. How do they serve the family? They assist with chores, and the older apples assist with the apple-blossoms and smaller apples. They care for any animals. They learn to clean, cook, and manage a household. They learn to preserve food, and even learn a bit about managing a household with servants. Sometimes, they even learn specialized skills, according to their particular interests (for example, 2 of our apples were fascinated with Victorian tea service, so they learned both how to manage themselves when being served tea, -and- how to serve).

As far as being 'raised' in the "lifestyle", our apples were raised, in part, in a protocol-driven, hierarchical household. Establishing rules, setting chores, and expecting certain manners isn't like boffing in front of the apples -- I think that the squick factor here comes out of the idea that authority-exchange relationships are all about sex, and, of course, one doesn't expose one's apples to sexual perversion. To me, though, our household is a family -first-. Yes, we're poly. Yes, we're protocol and authority driven, and our apples see that, but that doesn't mean that they have -anything- to do with the fetishist or sexual aspects. To me, they are two entirely different issues, and one does not have to throw out the discipline and protocol of a home in order to "protect" ones apples, if you have people who put the family first, and who practice a sensible level of discretion, like parents do in -any- family. I mean, after all, whether hierarchical household or not, most parents don't go at it on the coffee table in front of their offspring, so why would it be presumed that such a thing would happen in an authority-driven, protocol-driven household?

Dame Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 7/4/2009 7:30:22 AM >

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

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(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 5

RE: Children and BDSM lifestyle????? - 7/4/2009 7:19:32 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
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1. My sub's um's are not Mine. They are not being raised in My home. They already have two parents and I am not their third. They do know that I am his Dominant. I take no part in making the decisions about their upbringing. I will from time to time offer an opinion in conversation if something related to one of them comes up in discussion. That's it. In My view, any power or authority obtained through BDSM does not extend to non adults.

If I were helping to raise them or if they lived with Me, then I would certainly have the same responsibilities as any other step family. Things like reminding them to take out the trash or to pick up their room. I would still expect him to have the authority over them and make the parental decisions for them.

2. It would be My opinion that you may be using two different points of reference. In some matters, all from both households have been/are being raised in the lifestyle. There's never been a time that the collar came off just because there were little people in the room. My authority over him does not stop and the D/s dynamic doesn't cease. That's awareness, not service.

As to the latter, that may be someone's history prior to being of age to legally consent. It will certainly not be their experience with Me. In no way at any time will I condone it for those in My company and I can promise you that I will not be in their company long.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 6

RE: Children and BDSM lifestyle????? - 7/4/2009 10:55:59 AM

LdyWintershade

Posts: 41
Joined: 6/9/2009
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I want to say that I am appreciating the feedback I am getting so far....thanks. :) And certainly, I have gotten some unexpected and thought-provoking responses (which I always like). However I want to clarify one thing;
I agree that if you are part of a relationship in which you are responsible for helping raise children, of course you should have say in the structure and order of their upbringing, as would be the case for any live-in significant other/step parent. Having said that, what I am talking about is the unsolicited influence of your opinion when not in that role, OR using one's role as a Dom/me to supercede or usurp parental authority of that basis.
I will also state now, that I do not agree with this behavior. If you are the disciplinarian in your house, fine. However, it should not be based on your role in BDSM, but rather your role in the family.
As for my opinions on 'raising children in the life'....I have issues all over the place with that one too. While I agree that many households around the world raise their children to view different genders in many different ways, which influence their future relationships, I do not see that as the same as raising them to be little Dom/mes or little subs/slaves. It you run a strict house, with lots of discipline and protocols, so be it. However, as soon as you dictate that your child/ or ANY child fills a BDSM role it is in conflict with SSC behavior, because they are not able to consent. I would also agree that this is a form of abuse. On the other hand, I recognize this is slippery slope. This country has already argued and stated that ideology is not considered abuse, (as is evident by the children brought to racist rallies and are not removed from the family under the 1st amendment), but I think if a case was brought before a judge pertaining to BDSM society would be up in arms. Don't get me wrong, I think the afforementioned racist family outings should be considered abuse as well.
Anyways, I feel that anyone who is unable to consent to involvement in BDSM should not be subject to it, regardless of what their parents, guardians have chosen for themselves.

Also, I would like to thank the moderators again....who thought long and hard as to whether or not they should allow this discussion. :)

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 7

RE: Children and BDSM lifestyle????? - 7/4/2009 11:56:37 AM

LovingMistress45

Posts: 271
Joined: 2/7/2009
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On #1 - If the relationship is a live-in partnership then I would think the other person be it dom or sub would have a role in raising any children in the home. A really good reason to make sure you know the person before entering the relationship. Similar views on child rearing would be important. However, if it is not that type of relationship then no as a dominant I have no say in how the children are raised. If my opinion is sought I may offer it, but I would not tell someone else how to raise their children.

On #2 - I think it depends on what someone means when they say raised in the lifestyle. If one merely means raised in a home where there was a power exchange relationship between the parents - no problem. If one means being used as a servant, treated as an object or exposed to any type of sexual or fetish activities then that is a big problem and is abuse.

(in reply to LdyWintershade)

Post #: 8

RE: Children and BDSM lifestyle????? - 7/4/2009 2:18:47 PM

Danemora

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Joined: 10/9/2006
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I dont honestly think that there is one answer that will pertain to everyone facing this issue. Be the couple a vanilla one or a D/s one, the involvement of children within the home is essentially a blending of families. While I live my life and run my home with the belief that what I say is what goes, I do feel that there is an exception that should be made when it comes to children being involved. I have a child myself and if I was involved with a submissive who had children of their own, I believe that both myself and the submissive should sit down together as equals to determine a suitable family plan that will work in regards to all of the children involved. Of course there is going to be compromise, but I feel that a united front presented by both adults is genuinely in the best interest of the children involved.

note: I am new to posting in the forums, so I am not 100% sure why it says I responded to LovingMistress45. I guess that if anything, it should be a reply to Lady Wintershade :)

< Message edited by Danemora -- 7/4/2009 2:20:45 PM >

(in reply to LovingMistress45)

Post #: 9

RE: Children and BDSM lifestyle????? - 7/4/2009 2:21:54 PM

lobodomslavery

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Well as long as Your child is happy and feels loved and not exploited thats all that matters i suppose and as long as Your possible submissive's children felt cherished it would be ok possibly
kevin

(in reply to Danemora)

Post #: 10

RE: Children and BDSM lifestyle????? - 7/4/2009 5:43:21 PM

LovingMistress45

Posts: 271
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Danemora,

Because you posted after me using the fast reply box at the bottom of the page. If you want a reply to be to a specific person you have to click the reply above the message you are responding too.

(in reply to Danemora)

Post #: 11

RE: Children and BDSM lifestyle????? - 7/4/2009 5:52:28 PM

MeaganBlake

Posts: 56
Joined: 1/8/2009
From: Central Ohio
Status: offline

This is a fascinating thread. I myself am childfree, but my slave has a 16-year-old son who lives with him. Right now it's not much of an issue because we live several states apart. When the time comes for me to relocate, though, it is something we shall certainly have to discuss in depth. I'm hoping maybe the UM will be away at college by that time.

As far as parental authority, I would not interfere with Josephine's parenting unless I felt he was making a grave mistake. Even then, the final authority where the UM is concerned is with his parents, not with me.

As for raising kids in the lifestyle, that is an area of concern for me. I certainly wouldn't make the UM serve me or submit to me in any way (outside of respecting me as he would any vanilla step-parent), but I do wonder how Josephine and I will function as a couple when his son is around. I do not want to scar the kid for life, but on the other hand, I do not want to give up my power over my slave when the UM is around, either. Again, this is something Josephine and I will have to discuss in depth when the time is right.

_____________________________

Meagan

(in reply to Danemora)

Post #: 12

RE: Children and BDSM lifestyle????? - 7/4/2009 6:05:14 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lobodomslavery

i think anyone who get u18s involved regardless of orientation sub/domme/switch should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. it is nothing more than blatant child abuse to force a person who cannot give consent to serve another in a BDSM capacity
kevin

since you replied to me directly, i will respond. i wasnt "forced" to grow up this way. my mother differed to my father, my grandmothers (both of them) deferred to my grandfathers. everything was as the men wished it. very much "Leave it to Beaver". where you got BDSM out of that, i have no clue.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to lobodomslavery)

Post #: 13

RE: Children and BDSM lifestyle????? - 7/4/2009 6:17:21 PM

SavageFaerie

Posts: 4377
Joined: 12/3/2004
From: NYC
Status: offline

My daughter and her partner are in a D/s relationship and live together. My daughter was already strick with her kids but he is a natural A type personality and they tend take him more serious than their mother.

As a result they are not electronically dependent, have a vivid imagination, are polite and behave themselves in public. They have also learned that lying doesn't work so well and now tell the truth (mostly) when asked point blank.

It had nothing to do with D/s but with discipline and how they are raised.

They in no way serve.

_____________________________

Disclaimer:If its the wrong word or misspelled I blame on my fingers and brains refusing to interact.

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Post #: 14

RE: Children and BDSM lifestyle????? - 7/4/2009 7:36:53 PM

LdyWintershade

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I certainly don't see that as BDSM, just a value system of your family. And of course, I understand that a Dom/me who is in a relationship with someone who has kids, will have a say in raising said kids. I just feel that it should be an equal partnership as parents, NOT as Dominant or submissive. Just my opinion. :)

Feedback has been wonderful, people. Thanks.

- I disagree with what you say, but will defend to the death, your right to say it.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 15

RE: Children and BDSM lifestyle????? - 7/5/2009 5:31:11 AM

agirl

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I think I will always have a problem with *grooming* a child FOR anything. It becomes a huge subject when it involves ideology. Being aware of something doesn't mean being *groomed* for something.

Everyone differs in their approach to these things and obviously my idea of what's *right* for myself and my womb-escapers could be (and has been) viewed as *not right*.

My approach has always been that I will live my life the way that suits ME.....D/s, bdsm......whatever it is.......I also don't hide, mask or pretend.....I explain, we talk, we discuss. They have access to any other ways of living, they are utterly free to choose their way of living too.

The MOST important and most dearly held hope I have, is that I've taught them that MY way isn't the ONLY way and THEIR way will have as much respect from me, as they have for mine. They may have been raised IN it , but they were not raised FOR it. And for me, that's correct.

agirl

(in reply to LdyWintershade)

Post #: 16

RE: Children and BDSM lifestyle????? - 7/5/2009 11:12:47 AM

LdyWintershade

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Joined: 6/9/2009
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I have to say I really like the distinction you make between awareness and 'grooming'. I also, do not agree with 'making' my child anything in regards to ideology. I have instilled basic values that I think will make him better able to walk whatever path he chooses, but I have never been a fan of 'herding' children into pre-determined paths or creating little clones of myself...one of me is all the world can handle..lol
Still, I am very open with my son...we talk. He asks me questions and I answer, leaving him with choices and information. I've done my best to let him know that mine is not the ONLY way, as well. There are things I secretly hope he will choose, (so far some he has selected, and some he's gone in a totally different direction...and I imagine that will continue), but that is only natural for a parent. However, he knows that whatever the choices he makes, I will love and support him...even when we don't agree.
Anyways, I just wanted to comment on how much your post resonated with me! :)

- I disagree with what you say, but will defend to the death, your right to say it.

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 17

RE: Children and BDSM lifestyle????? - 7/5/2009 11:22:02 AM

agirl

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I appreciate your comment LdyWinterShade.

Regards, agirl

(in reply to LdyWintershade)

Post #: 18

RE: Children and BDSM lifestyle????? - 7/5/2009 12:23:02 PM

Ialdabaoth

Posts: 1073
Joined: 5/4/2008
From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

I think I will always have a problem with *grooming* a child FOR anything. It becomes a huge subject when it involves ideology. Being aware of something doesn't mean being *groomed* for something.

To be fair, though, this is often a matter of degrees, and the line between "aware" and "groomed" shifts depending on the topic being discussed.

Many, many people would argue that allowing children any knowledge of sex is "grooming" them. These same people would often argue that enforcing a strict religious household, and demanding that those children participate in worship, is merely maintaining an "awareness". Likewise, many people in the US would argue that allowing children any knowledge of political activism outside the parents' ideology is "grooming" them, but immersing them in American Football, demanding that they always 'give their all', and pushing them to become the next great football star is merely maintaining an "awareness". Hell, most people would argue that talking to kids at all about evolution or environmentalism was "gooming" them, but instilling in them a sense of capitalistic greed and ego was just maintaining an "awareness".

Shifting perspective:

Many people would argue that giving children any religious guidance is "grooming" them. These same people would often argue that pushing them towards a no-holds-barred, anything-goes sexuality - full of anything from homosexuality to sex with ducks - is merely maintaining an "awareness". Likewise, many people in the US would argue that allowing children any access to sports or healthy, gender-appropriate activities is "grooming" them, but inundating them with confusing ideas about "gender" and "hegemony" and communism and God-knows-what-else is just maintaining an "awareness". Hell, many people would argue that talking to kids at all about maintaining a good work ethic, taking care of themselves and their families, and not being taken advantage of in the workforce is "grooming" them, but forcing an athiest agenda down their throat is just maintaining an "awareness".

This is because some topics and activities are acceptable for children in our culture, and other topics and activities are not, and which topics and activities are acceptable depends on what you want these children to turn into. So in a sense, everything we do is "grooming" them. "Grooming" children is just another word for "raising" them; the thing is, we call it "grooming" when we don't approve of what we're raising them to be.

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 19

RE: Children and BDSM lifestyle????? - 7/5/2009 1:13:24 PM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

I think I will always have a problem with *grooming* a child FOR anything. It becomes a huge subject when it involves ideology. Being aware of something doesn't mean being *groomed* for something.

To be fair, though, this is often a matter of degrees, and the line between "aware" and "groomed" shifts depending on the topic being discussed.

Many, many people would argue that allowing children any knowledge of sex is "grooming" them. These same people would often argue that enforcing a strict religious household, and demanding that those children participate in worship, is merely maintaining an "awareness". Likewise, many people in the US would argue that allowing children any knowledge of political activism outside the parents' ideology is "grooming" them, but immersing them in American Football, demanding that they always 'give their all', and pushing them to become the next great football star is merely maintaining an "awareness". Hell, most people would argue that talking to kids at all about evolution or environmentalism was "gooming" them, but instilling in them a sense of capitalistic greed and ego was just maintaining an "awareness".

Shifting perspective:

Many people would argue that giving children any religious guidance is "grooming" them. These same people would often argue that pushing them towards a no-holds-barred, anything-goes sexuality - full of anything from homosexuality to sex with ducks - is merely maintaining an "awareness". Likewise, many people in the US would argue that allowing children any access to sports or healthy, gender-appropriate activities is "grooming" them, but inundating them with confusing ideas about "gender" and "hegemony" and communism and God-knows-what-else is just maintaining an "awareness". Hell, many people would argue that talking to kids at all about maintaining a good work ethic, taking care of themselves and their families, and not being taken advantage of in the workforce is "grooming" them, but forcing an athiest agenda down their throat is just maintaining an "awareness".

This is because some topics and activities are acceptable for children in our culture, and other topics and activities are not, and which topics and activities are acceptable depends on what you want these children to turn into. So in a sense, everything we do is "grooming" them. "Grooming" children is just another word for "raising" them; the thing is, we call it "grooming" when we don't approve of what we're raising them to be.

I agree. And if I had wanted to go into detail, I would have.

In my little herb garden, I have an idea of how I'd like my children to turn out.....and it's rather vague. I would like them to be open-minded and to look beyond what's thrust at them ...either by ME or anyone else. Now, I agree that as a parent, I must have some kind of agenda.....but I'm unlikely to fulfill the one *I* have by reducing their information.

In many ways I have to agree that I have , indeed,*groomed* my children.......toward making their own decisions and carving their own paths. I've probably *groomed* them not to be bullies, racists, ignorant and bigotted fools. I hope so.

I have to provide some kind of guidance and control.......but it doesn't have to be in the nature of anything *extreme*.

This is because some topics and activities are acceptable for children in our culture, and other topics and activities are not, and which topics and activities are acceptable depends on what you want these children to turn into.

Having had children with their own minds, their own thoughts, views and feelings...the fact that *some* topics are not *acceptable* doesn't come into it. ANY topic is acceptable inside OUR family. I don't care if it isn't in other families.

While they are of a certain age, I'm the biggest influence they'll have.......I didn't/don't take that lightly, in fact it's been the most difficult part of parenting and caused/causes me the most sleepless nights.

ME being ME is, without doubt going to have an effect on them but as long as that is tempered by ME not insisting they BE like ME, or DO what I DO.....it's fine.

agirl

(in reply to Ialdabaoth)

Post #: 20

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