RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? (Full Version)

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intenze -> RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? (7/8/2009 7:59:29 PM)

We don't leave the universe, at least the physical part of us. All matter and energy are finite and are not created or destroyed.  When I go, the atoms that make up me will just go do something else.  In that way, we are all immortal.




MzMia -> RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? (7/8/2009 8:08:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: knees2you

   Ok,
I know people have been talking about God, Jesus and other beliefs etc. Not much on satan,
but I was wondering why do you believe in
what will happen to you when you leave this planet?
 
One person on here once told me he was going in the ground as fertilizer.[8D]
I asked him how he got here in the first place
and his response was an organism?[&:]
 
Not sure what that meant, but am curious your what feelings are.
 
Always, Ant~[sm=threadhijack.gif]


As a Believer I totally believe in what my fate will be.
[:)]
Here are a few questions I hope someone will answer for me.
 
If you do NOT believe in GOD, who do you pray to?
Seriously, WHO are you praying to?
I mean if you are serious, who do you expect help from?

the air? the grass? satan? a rock? the man in the mirror? the man in the moon?
seriously now?

Also, why do soooooooooooooooo many people that claim NOT to believe in GOD/a higher power/etc.

when in deep sh*t or are in bad shape, say things like "Please GOD, Help me GOD, and other similar things?
 
I especially want to know who people are praying to when they do not believe in a higher power.
 
I have seen/heard people especially on HERE, that go on and on and on about saying they are not believers, there is no such thing as GOD, ad naseum...
Then I see them telling others they are praying for them.
That always floors me, I am like what?
[8|]
I really, really want to know who/or what they are praying to.
Thank you.




olena -> RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? (7/8/2009 8:24:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I used to think, care and believe what happens at the end, but now, I don't care, for I am busy thinking of life and how best to enjoy it.

I get the impression that many faiths go on about some sort of paradise after death, but what if this is the paradise, we are in it, but because of various teachings, we choose not to see it. Instead people believe that when they are old and without energy, it is a short time to wait until they are in a realm , which is without proof, an idea, nothing more.

Does it ever occur that what the various faiths have said through the centuries, might be nothing more than scare stories used to control people. We have life, and this world is beautiful, lets not pine for an idea, when we have beauty around us, accept our paradise and make it better.

Is it not better at the end of our days to look back on what we have achieved, the fun we have had and the life we have lived, the people we have brought into the world and those we have helped, than think of something unknown, possibly a lie to come. If we are to have only one life, live it to the full and make the world beautiful.

And, if it comes to the kingdom of god, then that I believe is within the person as well as outside, the earth is paradise if only we could see it.



I am one of those that believes/has faith (Is there any difference really in the two words when discussing this.) that if we have lived a life trying to stay strong in the fight against sin and to be engaged in trying to progress to a fuller love of God by living in a way he chose to do that we will be reunited with him in paradise.

I quoted this because while we have a difference this is a nicely worded way of what I have been taught and followed that progressing to a fuller love of God is all about. But many choose to ignore actively trying to make the world better on our daily small actions while claiming to be devoutly religious and in fact come more from human frailty of power and control and the need to feel better then others.

I think in the end it will not be ones stated faith but ones actions that will determine our final destination.





NihilusZero -> RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? (7/8/2009 9:01:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

What you say would be true if we were to constantly be contemplating our demise...do you? I think most people don't until they are forced to by age or illness.

We are an easily distracted specie...oooh, look at that shiny thing in the corner!

Wait...where was I?

Oh, yes. Distraction. It has its benefits for us.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Are we as a race still in our infancy? Who knows...we may be around for billions of years or gone tomorrow. I wonder... will we a 1000 years from now still be debating religion...and still claim it is just a response to sentience in our infancy? Or maybe we will realize it is more a deep part of our being...a necessary part...Love to be around to see...perhaps I will from heaven...or hell... while others are blinded by the darkness of oblivion.

Strangely, you will find this is a topic that I differ with other non-theists about (even though I would otherwise be described as a 'hard' atheist). I don't think the inner psychological variety of humanity will have an evolutionary need to whittle down the source(s) of its existential solace to materialistic reality. It clearly is the most cogent and lucid of the options, but neither of those are prerequisites for human emotions.

I'd like to think that in a millennium , reason and sensibility has shoved addictive religiosity and spirituality into the DSM LXXXVIII so as to properly deal with that brand of zealotry while being able to still afford people to have whatever delusions please them so long as it is not harming another non-consensually, but I don't know if I'm that optimistic.




NihilusZero -> RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? (7/8/2009 9:02:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

I am guessing he meant/said orgasm, not organism.[8|]

the.dark.

Hehe. [:D]



Oh phooey.  No points awarded?
I am deeply upset.[&o]

the.dark.

Awww! Okay.

20 points. [:)]




NihilusZero -> RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? (7/8/2009 9:08:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Also, why do soooooooooooooooo many people that claim NOT to believe in GOD/a higher power/etc.

when in deep sh*t or are in bad shape, say things like "Please GOD, Help me GOD, and other similar things?

Within a span of a month earlier on in the summer I lost my car (to an accident) my job and both girlfriends I had at the time. No praying or deity-searching.

Not even when I severely rolled my ankle about a month and a half ago (to the point where I had to realign my foot once I sat up)...and did it without having health insurance (there's a lesson learned).

Still, no crying out to mythological creatures.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

 ad naseum...

Ad nauseam.




rulemylife -> RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? (7/8/2009 9:08:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

As a Believer I totally believe in what my fate will be.
[:)]
Here are a few questions I hope someone will answer for me.
 
If you do NOT believe in GOD, who do you pray to?
Seriously, WHO are you praying to?
I mean if you are serious, who do you expect help from?

the air? the grass? satan? a rock? the man in the mirror? the man in the moon?
seriously now?

Also, why do soooooooooooooooo many people that claim NOT to believe in GOD/a higher power/etc.

when in deep sh*t or are in bad shape, say things like "Please GOD, Help me GOD, and other similar things?
 
I especially want to know who people are praying to when they do not believe in a higher power.



Why do you assume prayer is a necessity?

And why did you start a thread asking the same question you just asked here?




MzMia -> RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? (7/8/2009 9:13:57 PM)

I asked the question in a different manner, on my thread.
I never said prayer was a necessity, I asked the question for those non-Believers
that state that they pray.
 




kdsub -> RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? (7/8/2009 9:18:12 PM)

lol.. reason and sensibility... I didn't think a pessimistic atheist would ever believe that were a realistic possibility for mankind…. I certainly don’t…nor do I blame religion for our group lunacy.




knees2you -> RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? (7/8/2009 10:53:10 PM)

quote:

I don't think there will be a conscious Marie after I die; I don't believe I'm going to be in "heaven" sipping tea with loved ones who have died before me, but I do believe my energy has to move on in the universe as something somewhere In a sense, I don't think we ever really "leave the planet". 

 
You mean like being something or someone else?
Like a potatoe?
 
Always, Ant~[;)]




marie2 -> RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? (7/8/2009 11:25:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: knees2you

quote:

I don't think there will be a conscious Marie after I die; I don't believe I'm going to be in "heaven" sipping tea with loved ones who have died before me, but I do believe my energy has to move on in the universe as something somewhere In a sense, I don't think we ever really "leave the planet". 

 
You mean like being something or someone else?
Like a potatoe?
 
Always, Ant~[;)]


In my case, a sweet potato.  :)




igor2003 -> RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? (7/8/2009 11:33:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

I asked the question in a different manner, on my thread.
I never said prayer was a necessity, I asked the question for those non-Believers
that state that they pray.
 


Personally, I'm agnostic, and I don't pray. However, whether or not there is a God or diety of any kind I do still believe there is a certain power to prayer. How can that be? Whether created or evolved I think the human mind has many abilities that we are barely aware of or that we don't recognize or understand. Prayer, as in meditation, is simply a focusing of those mental powers and/or abilities.

When a church group gathers to pray for someone that is deathly sick, and that person experiences a "miracle" and gets well...was the prayer answered by God, or could it be that the combined mental force generated by a number of minds focused on a single thought or idea might have triggered whatever was needed for the sick individual to make a recovery?

I'm sure I don't know...but that is why I do think there is power in prayer even if I may not exactly believe in God.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? (7/9/2009 12:29:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Belief and hope are interchangeable in your context. What could be more depressing then an uncaring universe and oblivion? needing a crutch like believing in a "caring" universe would be terribly depressing

If that is the case then what is the use in our basic tenets? Love...honesty...self-sacrifice…charity…all that is good about us would be for not.I assume you meant "naught" not "not" and you couldnt be more wrong. Those qualities that are good are good in and of themselves and dont need anything bigger to make them that way.
All our good deeds would be for nothing on the universal scale. Our existence would be but a flicker of time… meaningless. Which is exactly what it is, so make the best of it while you can.



The alternative is a chance of another existence after physical death and a judgment for our deeds on earth. Even if not true it is something to hope for as an alternative to nothingness. no, it is pointless to hope for something that you have no control over, live your life in the present, not some imaginary future



Now in reality the truth means nothing because those that believe and those that don’t will meet the same fate like it or not. So how you feel as you live makes the difference. I would rather believe in God than oblivion. That means as I approach death I will be no less fearful but can look forward to the possibility of another existence of soul. Those non-believers however will face the same fear but will have nothing but cold dark oblivion to comfort them. wrong again. Knowing that there is nothing but the same oblivion that existed before you became sentient enhances the value of the time that you do have.


Butch






Alphascendant -> RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? (7/9/2009 6:52:37 AM)

I always liked the expression, "If there wasn't a god , there wouldn't be anything to debate." Years ago , while hitchhiking around the U.S. a somewhat strange fellow stopped and gave me a ride. His theory was, take an "o" out of good and you have "god'", add a "d" to evil and you have the "devil." I think that when we die and our bodies decompose, the negative energy in is drawn to the center of the earth, the "ground," and the positive energy radiates outward from the earth in the form of life. Our thoughts, being electrical impulses, are divided in the same manner. Twenty six years ago. I was sleeping in an 8'x12' cabin, with nothing but a small bed, table, chair and woodstove. I dreamed that there was a man with long hair and a beard, wearing a long white robe, sitting next to me. He was talking to me, but I don't recall what he was saying. It seemed like part of a dream, but my eyes were open looking at this man, listening while he spoke. I laid there on the bed as he finished speaking, stood up and walked out the door, leaving the door wide open. I got up off the bed to close the door and noticed that there were no footprints in the snow, standing there looking out the door, realizing that I was indeed awake as my eyes had not closed since waking to see the man sitting next to me. So yes, I believe that there is something, or someone else out there in a different dimension from which we can see.

It has been said that when we die, we see our life flash before our eyes. Has anybody ever been in an accident, when everything slowed down almost like slow motion? I think we are already all dead, and what we see is our lives flashing before us, in slow motion. I also believe that sometimes a person can die, and because of the pain they are suffering, they don't even realize that they have died. Still conscious, waiting for that moment to be confirmed, when they can say , "Oh please forgive me, I believe! Then the demon in the black hood shows up and says, "Too late my friend, you died a few minutes ago." Has anybody seen the movie "What the Bleep Do We Know?"? Quantum Physics

A few years ago I overdosed. I couldn't get a woman out of my mind, and couldn't figure out why as she was not that attractive, or was anything like the kind of woman I could picture myself being committed to in any way. I couldn't sleep, didn't eat, often for days.So I asked a friend for some valium, hoping to get at least a few hours of sleep. She gave me a bottle of ativan. So I looked it up in my little drug encyclopedia, found out what it was and figured four of them would knock me out sufficiently into the next day. I woke up about two hours later, freaking out, I thought all my teeth had fallen out and I was pawing around the bed looking for them. Realizing I had all my teeth, I asked the "god" what the fuck...??? I thought I was a good person, honest, hardworking, loyal, charitable, had even been coaching Special Olympics basketball for three years, without asking for anything in return. Why was "god" letting this happen? So I then wanted to ask "god" in person. It wasn't because of not wanting to continue living because of any depressing shitty life, but I wanted to know, I wanted to see "god" face to face. If I ended up in hell, so what, if that was where "god" wanted to put me, I would accept my fate. So I downed the remaining 40 pills and laid down with my bible. I woke up walking down the street during a 100 degree summer day, sick, wanting to go home, but deciding to go back to the hospital. It seems as though the girl in question paged me, but I did not answer, which was unusual, so she called a neighbor. The ambulance took me to the hospital, pumped my stomach, and as soon as they walked out, I disconnected all the tubes and left, which freaked everybody out. When I returned they strapped me down and kept me for three days, then cut me loose. They tried to give me more medicine, but I wouldn't take it, and it was almost a year before actually ingesting anything that that contained anything artificial or processed, an aspirin because of a bad toothache.

I'm not sure where I was intending to go with this, but sometimes we have to trust in things we can not see, our conscience? Maybe when we die, if we were too materialistic, we carry that baggage with us. yes, life is full of good and bad, and who are we exactly, to judge whether we are good or bad, just because something makes us feel good, doesn't mean it is good. I think that they next life is going to be even more difficult than this, but also more rewarding as well. There are several good points from both sides of the debate here, but basically, these are all the same threads boiling down to just rehashing the same ideas over and over again. "There is a god, there isn't a god." "I'm good because I feed homeless people, I love animals." "I am a loving person." "I'm good because I give homeless people 5 dollar bills." Well, for every good thing we that we can feel about ourselves, there is also something that isn't good. Things we choose not to show those that we might benefit from in some way. That's why we can all sit here and talk shit about each other, and think we are smarter than the other because out in the real world most people won't put up with that crap.


I have only experienced BDSM with one person, but the entire "growing together" process that she desired isn't happening. I have taken on a different approach to life because of my own personal interpretation of discipline, but to be honest. I can live without the games, that's all they are , something to spice up an otherwise boring existence. I used to want to go to a bondage club, or event, a dungeon with her and see some things first hand. But after watching the movie, "The Flock," I have changed my mind. I may enjoy some of the play one on one with a special person, but am not interested in watching others do it. Pain is pain.

I was horribly abused as a child, and yes, it may have fucked my brain up, but there are plenty of people who haven't been abused and they are fucked up as well. Anything that can kill us is generally defined as deadly, so is the world, so is life. I guess I feel as if this site has nothing left to offer me, much in the way as any dating site. There have been some laughs, some good points, and I probably have learned something about myself from all of you that I didn't know before. But I have another life to live and it isn't here. One woman wanted to meet me, tentatively I agreed. Then the subject of meeting for coffee came up. I said I'd rather bring my little stove to a park and make the coffee than sit somewhere paying to have it brought to me.
Of course, she politely declined. Sent me an email saying it wouldn't work. So there was somebody who initially thought I was handsome, talented, and after several emails she seemed really excited at the chance to meet. Then poof, gone. That made me realize that the person I want to give my time to isn't looking for somebody online, doesn't have her face plastered over several dating site with pictures that are years old. She isn't online at all. Interesting, you can look at a dating site, see a face, then years later, there is that same person, still on those same sites. Why?? Oh, they haven't met the right person. Maybe that person isn't right to begin with? Suddenly, I don't find anything meeting or corresponding with anybody online being attractive at all.


Pardon me if I rambled on too long, you can shoot me down all you want, but I'll treat it as if you were in my face, with a smile. Thanks for the many ideas, my newest one coming from a thread, "Enough is Enough,' which has inspired me to a new song that will take a lot of work to finish and polish up. I am a musically inclined artist and I try to stay true to my vision. Why do I believe in what fate awaits? Because I am not going to allow myself to grow old and brittle in front of a computer. Fate is what it is, we can choose our direction, but it is still fate whichever way one turns. I believe in fate because I believe in myself and being able to carry out my fate. So to heed my calling and write this song, I have to live it, enough is enough. I do not find confidence here, I find it when I walk away. So, anybody is free to make your snide comments or insults as seems to be the norm, pretend, or even be more intelligent than me. Make a joke. Maybe I have provided the fodder for your jokes at none expense of my own, thus, by making the joke, the joke is actually on the house, the jokes are on you.





knees2you -> RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? (7/9/2009 9:39:06 AM)

quote:

As a Believer I totally believe in what my fate will be.
[:)]
Here are a few questions I hope someone will answer for me.
 
If you do NOT believe in GOD, who do you pray to?
Seriously, WHO are you praying to?
I mean if you are serious, who do you expect help from?

the air? the grass? satan? a rock? the man in the mirror? the man in the moon?
seriously now?

Also, why do soooooooooooooooo many people that claim NOT to believe in GOD/a higher power/etc.

when in deep sh*t or are in bad shape, say things like "Please GOD, Help me GOD, and other similar things?
 
I especially want to know who people are praying to when they do not believe in a higher power.
 
I have seen/heard people especially on HERE, that go on and on and on about saying they are not believers, there is no such thing as GOD, ad naseum...
Then I see them telling others they are praying for them.
That always floors me, I am like what?
[8|]
I really, really want to know who/or what they are praying to.
Thank you.

 
 Great Quote.
Always, Ant[sm=cactus.gif]




Arpig -> RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? (7/9/2009 9:49:44 AM)

quote:

If you do NOT believe in GOD, who do you pray to?

Simple. I don't pray. Not to Yahweh, not to Thor, not to the pixies in the rose bush at the bottem of the garden.




Voodali -> RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? (7/9/2009 10:15:45 AM)

I've always been a believer in a creator and an afterlife.  It brings me comfort, provides me company when humans fail me or just aren't around, and provides hope and sanity in what to me would be a cruel and insane existence without meaning.  I can think of countless instances where prayer and meditation had positive effects for me.  As for the nature of god, and whether or not what I'm seeking here is approved of,  I will leave that up to god, and not human beings to explain.  However, I find this of great interest: http://www.nderf.org/.




kdsub -> RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? (7/9/2009 10:26:12 AM)

#1 Well then ...neither of us are depressed...good for us

#2 Not the point if they are good...only that their opposites would be just as good in an uncaring universe.

#3 Why not live life in the present AND hope for the future?

#4 It does no such thing... we alone determine the value of our time for whatever reasons we choose

Butch




kdsub -> RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? (7/9/2009 10:35:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

If you do NOT believe in GOD, who do you pray to?

Simple. I don't pray. Not to Yahweh, not to Thor, not to the pixies in the rose bush at the bottem of the garden.



Rub your hand across the top of your head....see what happens when you don't give those pixies the proper respect...

Butch




knees2you -> RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? (7/9/2009 11:09:33 PM)

  Just gotta love those
quote:

quotes~

 
quote:

We don't leave the universe, at least the physical part of us. All matter and energy are finite and are not created or destroyed.  When I go, the atoms that make up me will just go do something else.  In that way, we are all immortal.
[sm=2cents.gif]

 
Always, Ant~[sm=cactus.gif]

_____________________________




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