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Qns about 24/7 - 7/9/2009 7:27:46 AM   
Bluegod


Posts: 7
Joined: 7/4/2009
Status: offline 		Hi everyone...i am brand new to this lifestyle and naturally I have much to learn. When people talk about being in a 24/7 - d/s relationship, is there any room there for a straight forward normal interaction at any point in between (say for practical purposes) or is that distinction kept right throughout? Thanks in advance for indulging my ignorance. :)

Blue
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RE: Qns about 24/7 - 7/9/2009 7:38:54 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		the respect is always there, at least for me. the formalities can sometimes change to suit the situation we are in. if you are asking if its all slap and tickle, 24/7?

i wished!!


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RE: Qns about 24/7 - 7/9/2009 7:53:42 AM   
olena


Posts: 97
Joined: 12/27/2007
Status: offline 		24/7 is a mindset and devotion to the power exchange dynamic and the possibility that something that we may identify as directly in that area between two people can happen at anytime.

The mindset or life can affect many of our thoughts, actions and some appearances but on the whole most of the life of a 24/7 person resembles a person in any other relationship.


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RE: Qns about 24/7 - 7/9/2009 8:04:34 AM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline
quote:

When people talk about being in a 24/7 - d/s relationship, is there any room there for a straight forward normal interaction at any point in between (say for practical purposes) or is that distinction kept right throughout?


Welcome to the forums.

You and your submissive are the ones that decide how it will be. A 24/7 relationship differs from one couple to another. With Hubby and i, we are vanilla more than we are D/s...and it works for us.


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RE: Qns about 24/7 - 7/9/2009 8:09:04 AM   
Rainfire


Posts: 4047
Joined: 1/5/2009
Status: offline 		OP, each relationship has it's own dynamic set up by the parties involved. I'm a 24/7 sub but if you were to see us on the streets, in the store or even just a casual night at home, what you'd see wouldn't see me wrapped up in chains and running naked around the place, or chained to the bed naked for Master's sexual pleasure, but just what appears to be an ordinary married couple enjoying life. Close friends who know our preferences can spot some things but our relationship is intimate and discrete. Most people who see us tend to see that we have a very traditional, 50's or earlier marriage, where He is the Man and the Boss and I am His wife and homemaker. I serve Him not with grand flourishing rituals but quietly, making His favourite dinners, anticipating His needs based on how the day went, putting Him first, serving His dinner first and making sure He has everything He needs before seeing to my own needs. I clean the house, take of monsters and kittehs and make sure His household is running as smoothly as possible. That means I do whatever I need to do to make sure things are going well for Him.

We have our quiet nights where we just sit and snuggle, enjoying each other's company while watching a show. He holds me and lets me cry in His arms when I'm sad about something. And then there are those "other" nights.      

24/7 is what you and your partner or partners decide......


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RE: Qns about 24/7 - 7/9/2009 8:42:04 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bluegod

Hi everyone...i am brand new to this lifestyle and naturally I have much to learn. When people talk about being in a 24/7 - d/s relationship, is there any room there for a straight forward normal interaction at any point in between (say for practical purposes) or is that distinction kept right throughout? Thanks in advance for indulging my ignorance. :)

Blue


To be "24/7 D/s" means that one is always dominant, and the other is always submissive.  That can be just as "straightforward" and "normal" a way to interact with one another as any other way if it is how you naturally relate to and interact with one another.

If you are living with someone that you have play scenes or role-play with frequently, but outside of those play scenes or role-play you relate to each other as equals, that's not "24/7 D/s".  That's having a live in play partner.  Sometimes you'll hear people say things like having a conversation "Out of Character" or "Time Outs".  That means that they were (or were trying to be) "in character" the rest of the time.  In other words, they're trying to role-play most of the time.  That can be pretty tough to maintain over the long haul.

Being the actual, honest to god dominant menber of your household entails a lot of responsiblity for the submissive member(s) of the household that some men just don't want.  If what you're really looking for is frequent kinky play with someone who happens to live with you, just be clear about that, and you'll be happier.

Good luck.

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 7/9/2009 8:44:10 AM >

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RE: Qns about 24/7 - 7/9/2009 8:56:25 AM   
GYPZYQUEEN


Posts: 730
Joined: 4/14/2009
Status: offline 		OP::
hi there...welcome..

A  person has t be really clear( and htsi takes time) as said above as to 

IS it role play for fun and occasional kink" frequent kink?
bedroom only..  bedroom and some time s n the day?sessions and playtimes that overlap into daily life? or is it a 24-7 DOMINANT and sub constant life?
 
If it is a total lifestyle then the D sometimes makes every decision and organizes and RULES all ..even micro manages the sub's life right down to clothes and food..finances..when the sub pees even.

It is important to know there are no right and wrongs of how to..
other than being safe and sane and consensual
 
 and that YOU can decide..and design and BUILD what WORKS FOR YOU..

for eg..
*maybe you are D-s in the home but not at work or in public..
*maybe in home and a bit a work such as you sub has to say go at 2 and do something you said
* maybe you are D-s in home but in public there are subtle things happening like walking behind you...waiting for you to begin eating first
* maybe in home D-s but not all the time..so when watching movies for eg  the sub can choose where to sit..with you ..by you etc...and if s/he wants to go make popcorn and when

GQ

< Message edited by GYPZYQUEEN -- 7/9/2009 9:00:37 AM >

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RE: Qns about 24/7 - 7/9/2009 8:56:52 AM   
ladyofthecastle


Posts: 46
Joined: 3/25/2004
Status: offline 		When I was first married we tried the traditional wife/ husband roles.  It was okay for a few months and then things were just not sailing along smoothly. We began to change our relationship dynamic to where he was still the bread winner and I cooked and cleaned. Shortly there after I just cooked .    About 5 years ago we choose to call our relationship 24/7 since it is our everyday lives.  We can still argue and it is not all feathers and chains.  There are days that life gets in the way, such as he is at work and it's wash a pan or starve.

Most of our friends can tell there is something there, though the biggest comment is simply that they wish their husband was as attentive.

As a sign of our devotion to each other, he wears a wedding ring (most of the time as he is metal sensitive) and I simply do not as I am free to choose my partners.  We are bonded through our love for each other and there is still times when it rains.

The short answer is it can be what ever you want it to be, but as with all relationships there is a give and take.  Take the time in the beginning of the relationship to discuss your needs and how you feel. Then hang on and never forget what made you want to live, love, and serve the person your with. It can be bumpy but it makes it all the more fun!


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RE: Qns about 24/7 - 7/9/2009 9:09:30 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Most people who talk about 24/7 are full of shit.  I mean lets look at this, you sleep right?  So there goes 8 hours, most of us work ,so there goes another 8 so we are down to 8/7 right off the bat.

The mere fact she is thinking about me at work doesn't change that, even if I take her earnings or she is chained to a desk.

Combine all that with the fact that most who talk about 24/7 relationships can't make one last longer than six months anyway.

The reality that most D/s couples who LIVE together long term end up with an authority dynamic that is present in some low key way, more for some, less for others but what most would see is a loving nurturing relationship that has as much to do with vanilla as D/s.  In short, it is a relationship with all the ups and downs, ins and outs, highs and lows of any real relationship.

If more people worked on their relationship skills than their topping skills there would be a lot more slaves in the world.

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RE: Qns about 24/7 - 7/9/2009 9:32:51 AM   
SimplyMichael


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Joined: 1/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas


To be "24/7 D/s" means that one is always dominant, and the other is always submissive.  That can be just as "straightforward" and "normal" a way to interact with one another as any other way if it is how you naturally relate to and interact with one another.



So when your wife pays for your boat, you are still somehow "always dominant"?  Sorry but I think the concept of someone "always" being anything is an unhealthy myth  and one that lacks nuance of what "dominance" is and that it perpetuates a two dimensional view of humanity that is more suited to some silly fictional book than the reality of how humans operate in the real world.   Then again, I do not need a weaker/lesser woman as a partner in order to feel dominant in comparison, I choose the strongest and most independent woman as my submissive partners. 

I think also it is a bad stereotype to push as "always dominant" implies that we always have an opinion or order around any given situation.  I once had a slave who chose what I ate for me.  Why?  Because I got tired of liking what she ordered more than whatever I had chosen.  Some days I come home and I am tired and I don't want to decide what is for dinner, what she should wear, or what to do for the evening.  It doesn't mean I am submitting to her will, it means I chose wisely in a partner and know that her likes and dislikes please me.   There are days I want her to initiate sex, to bring some hot fantasy to me, that isn't because I want to submit to her desires or that she is topping from the bottom but because it turns me the fuck on.

The whole "slave sleeping at the foot of the bed, kneeling when hubby comes home, walking around in some slave costume" is all hot wank fodder that I love doing for a weekend but would bore the fuck out of me as a lifestyle.  I want to walk to the farmers market with someone, sit at a cafe with friends and have deep meaningless conversations about the state of the world, shove her up against a brick wall and violate her, surprise her with a bubble bath, write "Michael's Hole" on her ass, when I am sick let her mommy me.  In short, I want a full, rich, complex, nuanced life with a woman who is my submissive partner 24/7.

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RE: Qns about 24/7 - 7/9/2009 9:39:44 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Most people who talk about 24/7 are full of shit. 


Yes, I agree that most people who open their holes about it don't know what they're talking about.  Especially those who want to tell you what "the reality" is, or what "most people" do.  Unless they've done some kind of study to back that up.

quote:

I mean lets look at this, you sleep right?  So there goes 8 hours, most of us work ,so there goes another 8 so we are down to 8/7 right off the bat.


I think you're equating "24/7 D/s" with 24/7 play.  I don't think most of those full of shit people who talk about 24/7 D/s mean playing non-stop.  I think most of those full of shit people mean you have one party who is the authority figure, and one party who submits to the authority of the authority figure, all the time, not just while playing.

quote:

Combine all that with the fact that most who talk about 24/7 relationships can't make one last longer than six months anyway.


How long has yours lasted?

quote:

The reality that most D/s couples who LIVE together long term end up with an authority dynamic that is present in some low key way, more for some, less for others but what most would see is a loving nurturing relationship that has as much to do with vanilla as D/s.  In short, it is a relationship with all the ups and downs, ins and outs, highs and lows of any real relationship.


The reality, or your opinion?  I can appreciate that in your world they are the same thing, but the reality is that not everybody lives in Michael's world.


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RE: Qns about 24/7 - 7/9/2009 9:56:44 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

So when your wife pays for your boat, you are still somehow "always dominant"?  Sorry but I think the concept of someone "always" being anything is an unhealthy myth  and one that lacks nuance of what "dominance" is and that it perpetuates a two dimensional view of humanity that is more suited to some silly fictional book than the reality of how humans operate in the real world.  


Well gee, let me see.  Have a boat.  Don't have a wife to pay for it.  Is this a hypothetical?  Dominant is just a personal attribute, like "Tall".  I'm always taller than my slave too (at least so far).  Is that unhealthy?  Here we go with the "real world" again.  Somehow I think you mean Mikey's world again.  Sorry, never been there.

quote:

Then again, I do not need a weaker/lesser woman as a partner in order to feel dominant in comparison. I choose the strongest and most independent woman as my submissive partners. 


Damn, really?  Must suck to be them.  I... um... usually choose natural slaves to be my slaves.  I find them to be happier that way.  When I see a woman who is independant, I usually assume that she prefers to be independant, unless of course she confesses otherwise.  How is this working out for you by the way?  Do you have a woman at all?

quote:

I think also it is a bad stereotype to push as "always dominant" implies that we always have an opinion or order around any given situation.  I once had a slave who chose what I ate for me.  Why?  Because I got tired of liking what she ordered more than whatever I had chosen.  Some days I come home and I am tired and I don't want to decide what is for dinner, what she should wear, or what to do for the evening.  It doesn't mean I am submitting to her will, it means I chose wisely in a partner and know that her likes and dislikes please me.   There are days I want her to initiate sex, to bring some hot fantasy to me, that isn't because I want to submit to her desires or that she is topping from the bottom but because it turns me the fuck on.


Yeah, these are common misconceptions.  It's OK.  The way that you manage a slave is that you set policy, and guidelines.  You set your expectations, and make them as clear as possible.  She operates within the framework that you have established.  If you don't get how this works, you can just ask.  It's not necesary to be this pissy about it.

quote:

The whole "slave sleeping at the foot of the bed, kneeling when hubby comes home, walking around in some slave costume" is all hot wank fodder that I love doing for a weekend but would bore the fuck out of me as a lifestyle. 


I would suggest that you live some other way, then, unless having the fuck bored out of you appeals for some reason.

quote:

I want to walk to the farmers market with someone, sit at a cafe with friends and have deep meaningless conversations about the state of the world, shove her up against a brick wall and violate her, surprise her with a bubble bath, write "Michael's Hole" on her ass, when I am sick let her mommy me.  In short, I want a full, rich, complex, nuanced life with a woman who is my submissive partner 24/7.


Awww... that's very romantic mike.  Hang in there, I'm sure it'll happen for you.

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 7/9/2009 10:01:40 AM >

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RE: Qns about 24/7 - 7/9/2009 9:59:19 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Most people who talk about 24/7 are full of shit. 


Yes, I agree that most people who open their holes about it don't know what they're talking about.  Especially those who want to tell you what "the reality" is, or what "most people" do.  Unless they've done some kind of study to back that up.


I have just a few years of running large BDSM groups, owning public dungeons, participating in the scene in San Francisco, attending major leather conventions, years of poking fun at gorians, sitting down and talking with many of the authors of BDSM cannon of literature, as well as finishing up my degree in Psychology.  Based on that limited experience, I stand by my opinion. 

quote:


quote:

I mean lets look at this, you sleep right?  So there goes 8 hours, most of us work ,so there goes another 8 so we are down to 8/7 right off the bat.


I think you're equating "24/7 D/s" with 24/7 play.  I don't think most of those full of shit people who talk about 24/7 D/s mean playing non-stop.  I think most of those full of shit people mean you have one party who is the authority figure, and one party who submits to the authority of the authority figure, all the time, not just while playing.

quote:

Combine all that with the fact that most who talk about 24/7 relationships can't make one last longer than six months anyway.


How long has yours lasted?


Not as long as I would like but each one has been better than my last and while Bossyshoebitch and I are not together, we still care deeply for each other and I am quite proud of that fact.

quote:

quote:

The reality that most D/s couples who LIVE together long term end up with an authority dynamic that is present in some low key way, more for some, less for others but what most would see is a loving nurturing relationship that has as much to do with vanilla as D/s.  In short, it is a relationship with all the ups and downs, ins and outs, highs and lows of any real relationship.


The reality, or your opinion?  I can appreciate that in your world they are the same thing, but the reality is that not everybody lives in Michael's world.


Read what I wrote again, I said "most" not "everybody" and in my world that holds true.  My dear friends were the international Master/slave couple for 2008 and his submissive partner is more dominant than most dominants but is fully his slave.  My dear friend Leadership527 has been married almost two decades and would agree with my opinion.  Knight of Mists would agree although he would be a bit farther down the bell curve of outward appearing D/s than I.  Actually, pretty much anyone outside of a Gor chatroom would agree with me that has widespread respect either here on CM, Fetlife, national leather events, Master/slave conferences, and I could go on.

And I believe in this enough that I am writing a BDSM relationship book BASED on this opinion.  

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RE: Qns about 24/7 - 7/9/2009 10:10:49 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

...When people talk about being in a 24/7 - d/s relationship...


they mean many different things by it.
 
this slave has found it much more enlightening to ask for specifics from the indivdual using it as a descriptor...rather than try to form a one-size-fits-all definition that incorporates everyone's individual persepective into one general term.

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RE: Qns about 24/7 - 7/9/2009 10:11:15 AM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		I am often amazed at the literalness we take with some things and how lax we are with others.

24/7 as I understand it to me is the understanding that at all times the defined power dynamic is in process.

I consider myself 24/7 because there is no time in which my power dynamic is not in play. Andi has her freedoms and she has her moments when what comes out of her mouth is less than acceptable for me, It is at times like this in which I state that she has a choice to make. The Power Dynamic no matter how diluted at times may be is ALWAYS there.

Andi has things that she has to be in control of to function, however there is an understanding that should my needs trump those of what she is doing then my needs are met first.

There are times in which her needs trump my own and so my needs will wait. I can respect the nature of a fluid life, things change and when they do as such priorities must change with them.

I focus on which is the most beneficial action to make... For Instance.

Andi has to work late and I am hungry.

I can Order andi to tell her boss she needs to come home and clock out just to make me dinner or I can take the extra wages cook my own dinner still be fed and know that the priority of income was more inportant than my desire to NOT cook dinner.

Truth is however if I told andi I needed her home she would do as she was told and we would face the consequences together, if she lost her job because of it it would be my fault for requiring her home but on the same level she would also suffer because her income allows for both of us to have a better life.

The 24/7 aspect is always there it is just based on the necessity of life.

Steel

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RE: Qns about 24/7 - 7/9/2009 10:13:17 AM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline 		SimplyMichael, i must say, your "BDSM credentials" may mean a great deal to you and those within your world, but they don't mean a hill of beans to folks like my Master, myself, and many others who do not live within the trappings of the BDSM/Leather/Old Guard/SSC/RACK world. for some of us, it's just not all that complicated. it's about Male and female living in harmony with their true natures, appreciating the beauty and preciousness in this whole dominance and submission thing that has been a part of normal male/female healthy interaction since the dawn of humankind. you have said over and over and over (and over) again how you do not see anything valuable or special or worthwhile in a submissive female...we all hear ya loud and clear. get yourself a dominant female and have a ball, enjoy life to the fullest, but please do not disrespect those who do not share your beliefs or your preferences.

to the OP: Leonidas has offered the best advice for you. if Dominant/submissive or Master/slave is in accordance with your true selves, then everything is "straightforward normal interaction." however if you are perhaps more kinky top than Dominant, and seek more a kinky bottom than a submissive, then the concept of "time-outs" and such makes more sense.

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RE: Qns about 24/7 - 7/9/2009 10:22:53 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I have just a few years of running large BDSM groups, owning public dungeons, participating in the scene in San Francisco, attending major leather conventions, years of poking fun at gorians, sitting down and talking with many of the authors of BDSM cannon of literature, as well as finishing up my degree in Psychology.  Based on that limited experience, I stand by my opinion. 


Does sound pretty much like limited experience to me.  Attending Star-Trek conventions doesn't make you an astronaut, bud.  Experience is, you know, experience.  Having done something successfully for some significant period of time.  I'm sure that your experience with running a dungeon or hanging out in the scene gives you some good insight into how to run a dungeon or hang out in the scene, but that doesn't have much to do with this thread.  When you do have some experience, you're in a position to offer advice to others who would like to.  When you haven't, but you decide to offer advice anyhow, well, that's fairly un-cool as far as I'm concerned, but that's just my opinion.



quote:

My dear friends were the international Master/slave couple for 2008 and his submissive partner is more dominant than most dominants but is fully his slave.  My dear friend Leadership527 has been married almost two decades and would agree with my opinion.  Knight of Mists would agree although he would be a bit farther down the bell curve of outward appearing D/s than I.  Actually, pretty much anyone outside of a Gor chatroom would agree with me that has widespread respect either here on CM, Fetlife, national leather events, Master/slave conferences, and I could go on.


And if this were a thread about being a groupie, I'd be lining up to hear your advice on how, based on this and what you said above.  Just curious, how is the "International Master/slave couple chosen, anyway?  Is Bob Barker involved somehow?  More importantly, is there a swimsuit competition? 

quote:

And I believe in this enough that I am writing a BDSM relationship book BASED on this opinion.  


God help us.

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 7/9/2009 10:24:18 AM >

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RE: Qns about 24/7 - 7/9/2009 10:25:22 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

you have said over and over and over (and over) again how you do not see anything valuable or special or worthwhile in a submissive female...we all hear ya loud and clear.


Actually, you haven't understood what I have said.  I have said my SUBMISSIVE partners have often been dominant women.  I TREASURE the submission I inspire in them.    Perhaps you need to step back and reread what I write because I think that a healthy submissive who submits from a place of strength and power rather than from neediness and weakness is a glorious thing.  Which is why I have the utmost respect for male submissives because I think of all our roles, that is the one that requires the most bravery to openly embrace.  So no, it isn't me that is seeing submissives as not having value or being special.  It isn't me as seeing them as some two dimensional fictional stereotypes!

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RE: Qns about 24/7 - 7/9/2009 10:29:47 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		I would suggest that it's better to think of 24/7 as a mindset, rather than consistant actions.  Or you just get caught up in other peoples relationships.
Look instead at what you want from a relationship.  I checked out your profile and you are dominant.  So it's your relationship - your 24/7.  Honestly?  I think your profile is concise and pretty much rocks and I don't think you will have much problem getting into a relationship that you can shape yourself.  Whether you decide to call it 24/7 or not is really your call.
 
the.dark.

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RE: Qns about 24/7 - 7/9/2009 10:31:36 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

So when your wife pays for your boat, you are still somehow "always dominant"?  Sorry but I think the concept of someone "always" being anything is an unhealthy myth  and one that lacks nuance of what "dominance" is and that it perpetuates a two dimensional view of humanity that is more suited to some silly fictional book than the reality of how humans operate in the real world.   Then again, I do not need a weaker/lesser woman as a partner in order to feel dominant in comparison, I choose the strongest and most independent woman as my submissive partners. 

I think also it is a bad stereotype to push as "always dominant" implies that we always have an opinion or order around any given situation.  I once had a slave who chose what I ate for me.  Why?  Because I got tired of liking what she ordered more than whatever I had chosen.  Some days I come home and I am tired and I don't want to decide what is for dinner, what she should wear, or what to do for the evening.  It doesn't mean I am submitting to her will, it means I chose wisely in a partner and know that her likes and dislikes please me.   There are days I want her to initiate sex, to bring some hot fantasy to me, that isn't because I want to submit to her desires or that she is topping from the bottom but because it turns me the fuck on.

The whole "slave sleeping at the foot of the bed, kneeling when hubby comes home, walking around in some slave costume" is all hot wank fodder that I love doing for a weekend but would bore the fuck out of me as a lifestyle.  I want to walk to the farmers market with someone, sit at a cafe with friends and have deep meaningless conversations about the state of the world, shove her up against a brick wall and violate her, surprise her with a bubble bath, write "Michael's Hole" on her ass, when I am sick let her mommy me.  In short, I want a full, rich, complex, nuanced life with a woman who is my submissive partner 24/7.


Dude...way too much projection and way too much over-generalization.

Leonidas alluded to the fact that your words seem to consider dominance and submission simply as roles that people play, in which case your incredulity at a 24/7 dynamic (while people sleep or work) might make some sense, but humans are not blank slates wearing occasional clothes to suit the mood all the time (much as we may wish it to be so). There are people with naturally dominant and naturally submissive tendencies.

Applying passive situations to the argument to try to discount the dynamic seems an awfully naive view of BDSM. It should be relatively obvious that choosing not to decide what's for dinner does no abrogate the dynamic for anyone seriously in that dynamic. For as fantastical as you say the concept of 24/7 is, it is so proportionally to how much of a strawman you are painting. And that's not even taking into consideration the genuine question behind some of the insinuations: such as, are you saying that no one has a relationship dynamic where the sub sleeps as the foot of the bed and dresses as demanded by hir D-type?

No one in this thread was making outlandish, fantasy-book proclamations about 24/7 D/s until you came in crusading against the idea.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 7/9/2009 10:32:59 AM >

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(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 20
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