RE: Qns about 24/7 (Full Version)

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RCdc -> RE: Qns about 24/7 (7/9/2009 11:57:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
I love Newcastle but I am sure that it is like Corona, the natives all think it is piss.  Tell you what, you guys bring the beer since British beer is great but us American's will handle the food...cause well, you know.



OK, deal... except on the food front for the yorkshire pudding.  Ask Merc.  At least we do that well...[;)]
 
the.dark.



NihilusZero -> RE: Qns about 24/7 (7/9/2009 11:59:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael]

Excuse me but I didn't use "most" as some sleezy "convenient" debate tactic.  The reality is that somewhere there is a couple were the dominant severed all the limbs of his slave and she lives in a box and he uses her as his toilet and that is her only sustanance AND they are both happy AND healthy living that way.  However, I doubt it would work for most.  Same goes for loveless M/s relationships, they do work for SOME but for MOST they are disasters waiting to happen.  So when I use the word MOST it is because my statement is ACCURATE for MOST people.

Great. We're in agreement.

The issue bugging me is that you seemed to use a combination of an argumentum ad populum and your own personal feelings as a means to suggest that because most people could not happily engage in X dynamic, that it meant that X is an inherently negative thing.

Such things are either compatible or not...and that is the degree to which the healthiness should be measured. Not just on how few people could conceivably be happy in it...otherwise we're certainly just crapping on ourselves (since WIITWD is a sexual and/or social minority to being with).

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael]

quote:

And while you attempts to act as a sieve to separate the unrealistic from the "twue" aspects of 24/7 D/s may be noble in order to enlighten newer folks that they can have normal vanilla interactions mixed with their kink.,


I realize you are new to the boards but if you think either that I believe it is only newbies who are full of shit, you are SADLY mistaken.

I'm not that new. I've seen you post plenty of times before. I made the "uncharacteristic" remark specifically for that reason.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael]

quote:

it doesn't change the fact that you conveniently ignored people who can live with the "fantasy" aspects you mention with derision.


Here is why I dismiss you as playing games.  In this sentence you say I "conveniently ignored people who can live with the "fantasy" and in the next sentence admit I used the word "most".  I did so because with my MORE EXPANSIVE AND BROADER EXPERIENCE most people don't make the "fantasy" work and instead trying to live up to that fantasy undermines what would otherwise be a beautiful M/s relationship.

Pushing the fact that all this is anecdotal to the side, I basically dealt with this topic in the first paragraph of mine above. The "fantasy" isn't the problem when it  "undermines what would otherwise be a beautiful M/s relationship", it's the incredulity or naivete of the people involved. It's the people. You can't declare having a moustache as being bad/unhealthy because of the amount of mass murderers in human history who have sported one.



Aileen1968 -> RE: Qns about 24/7 (7/9/2009 12:00:09 PM)

*fast reply*
Wow....if I knew there was gonna be a big dick swordfight in this thread I would have read it sooner. [:D]
24/7, to me, is as unique as the people within the relationship. There is no right or wrong. If it works and they're happy then that's their definition of 24/7.
My personal desires and goals of a 24/7 relationship will be completely different from anyone else's.



daddysprop247 -> RE: Qns about 24/7 (7/9/2009 12:02:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Here is why I dismiss you as playing games.  In this sentence you say I "conveniently ignored people who can live with the "fantasy" and in the next sentence admit I used the word "most".  I did so because with my MORE EXPANSIVE AND BROADER EXPERIENCE most people don't make the "fantasy" work and instead trying to live up to that fantasy undermines what would otherwise be a beautiful M/s relationship.


i find the idea that "24/7" Dominance and submission, a relationship in which the control and authority always flow in one direction, a relationship made up of a person who is always dominant-natured and a person or persons who are always submissive-natured...must be a "fantasy" to be highly insulting and narrow-minded. equally insulting is the idea that only dominant "submissives" have any value or worth, simply because that is the type of partner you prefer.

it's also strange to me that you seem to accept and understand a Master and slave like Mercnbeth no problem, but rally against those with similar views.



ExSteelAgain -> RE: Qns about 24/7 (7/9/2009 12:02:53 PM)

I was with a submissive years ago who had just left her husband. I once asked her why she had left him and she said, "because he won't tell me what to fix for dinner." Swear to God. That stuck with me in my later D/s relationship for a long time.



NihilusZero -> RE: Qns about 24/7 (7/9/2009 12:03:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

For example: if he says "bedtime" there is nothing wrong if I say I only have ten pages to find out whodunit in the new mystery I'm reading. Since for me, those ten pages will go by in 3 minutes, I always get it.


...which seemed to suggest that a D-type who, in this situation, would not permit those extra 3 minutes (or a dynamic where that strictness is expected) is naturally "bad". My reply, then, was just to point out that such is an example of something the partners themselves as free to choose.


Nope, just you projecting onto what she wrote your own feelings.  I got what she meant as I am sure other did.  Do you notice how often you use words like "implied" and "seemed"?  Food for thought.

You are vastly smarter than this but your reactivity is undermining your message.  Not only that, what you keep implying that things are "obvious" when the frequent posts on this board are any indication are ANYTHING but obvious.


This is irrelevant to this excerpt. All I did was say, in response to her, that X is not necessarily bad if the people involved willingly choose X as part of their dynamic.

Even if my implications were not applicable, I made no comment directly to her making mention of it.



LadyPact -> RE: Qns about 24/7 (7/9/2009 12:04:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

The merits of defining the representation of the term 24/7. Battle-lines drawn from perspective based upon life to date results. Its merit or worthless being determined by them. Well first...

"Hello, I'm Merc and I represent to be in a 24/7 relationship with beth, my slave." Stipulating to being, as Michael says, "full of shit". However, not worried or even willing to get into a heated debate about it. A debate yes - but heated? - No way!


This is exactly why I no longer engage in such debates Myself.  Not everyone can see more than their own narrow view.  A dynamic such as the one I have today is impossible for some to grasp.

First of all, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. It's a huge responsibility and big pain in the ass. Imagine coming home from work, pissed off from business calls, family calls, and the fact that some asshole in the left lane driving a Honda blocked me from doing 60 during my 6.8 mile commute home. You come through the door and this 24/7 'slave' raises her shirt and asks whether I want a beer, scotch, or martini? Maybe you can keep up the mood, but when she brings it to you, with some appetizers she's prepared, a Cuban cigar, and sits taking off my shoes by the pool - well that bitch just spoiled my evening!

I'm with you.  Do you know how many shitty moods that boy has absolutely ruined by kneeling just inside the doorway, with a diet pepsi in the palm of his hand?  It's a sin, I tell ya!

quote:

I know all those people that Michael speaks, meeting some. None represent any similarity to beth and I except in the label. I'd say that was one of two things all those relationships have in common with ours. The second is more important - all the participants have the exact definition of 24/7 as their partner. Yes there is such a thing as 24/7. In our case, beyond the 'Rules', beyond the ritual and protocol, it is 24/7 responsibility, 24/7 foreplay, 24/7 FUN!

I agree on this, but from a different perspective.  I'm fully aware that there are some out there who can not understand how that definition applies when someone isn't under the same roof, or even the same country.  I can't ask everyone to see through My eyes.

quote:

Argue all the semantics you want it comes down do both partners surrendering, submitting, and serving the relationship 24/7. Nobody from the outside can make a valid counter argument to the people participating in it. The most you'll generate in doing so, is a laugh.

Yep.

quote:

Someone hit upon the only argument I would have with anyone representing they are in a 24/7 relationship. If you need a 'break', 'vacation', 'time-out' or whatever; you're acting. You can't act forever. You are doing something that take too much effort to expect long term success. Were that the case it indicates it is time to renegotiate the terms. One of the most unbelievable aspects of our relationship is that I've been it it 6 1/2 years - 6 1/2 YEARS! It seems like 6 1/2 minutes, and its as fresh and exciting as it was in the first 6 1/2 seconds. We hate any 'time-outs' we're forced to experience when one of us has to go out of town without the other. Hell, it's just as bad when I have to leave in the morning for work; and people who witnessed it say our nightly greeting when I come home is just "disgusting" to see such gratuitous affection (and nudity) being exchanged.

I don't know how to phrase this.  In two and a half years, neither of us in this dynamic has wanted a break.  Granted, we've done what we've known we had to do.  That service to the country thing is kind of big around here.

quote:

Regarding the pragmatic aspect that Michael points out; sleep represents the most difficult aspect of 24/7. No matter how many times I order her not to, beth still dreams of things other than serving me. However she does tries not to. I guess I have to work harder on her training.

Come on, the quality of the people having a argument of semantics and definitions overwhelms the subject of the argument. I say you all come over to our place where the only thing that's heated is the pool. The debate is something to do between sessions in the dungeon - open 24/7.


I think you already know that I'm looking forward to it. 

My best wishes to you, and to beth, until I have the opportunity.



Mercnbeth -> RE: Qns about 24/7 (7/9/2009 12:04:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Someone hit upon the only argument I would have with anyone representing they are in a 24/7 relationship. If you need a 'break', 'vacation', 'time-out' or whatever; you're acting. You can't act forever. You are doing something that take too much effort to expect long term success. Were that the case it indicates it is time to renegotiate the terms. One of the most unbelievable aspects of our relationship is that I've been it it 6 1/2 years - 6 1/2 YEARS! It seems like 6 1/2 minutes, and its as fresh and exciting as it was in the first 6 1/2 seconds. We hate any 'time-outs' we're forced to experience when one of us has to go out of town without the other. Hell, it's just as bad when I have to leave in the morning for work; and people who witnessed it say our nightly greeting when I come home is just "disgusting" to see such gratuitous affection (and nudity) being exchanged.

You unrealistic Bastage!  Stop living in that fantasy land.  The real world awaits you.


Leonidas,
Trust me - I KNOW I'm living in "fantasy land". I expect in reality I'm in a coma someplace in Northern NJ. However, I'm grateful to my 'nurse', I must have vaguely been able to read her name badge saying 'Elizabeth', for putting whatever drug she's using into my needle drip.



daddysprop247 -> RE: Qns about 24/7 (7/9/2009 12:06:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

I was with a submissive years ago who had just left her husband. I once asked her why she had left him and she said, "because he won't tell me what to fix for dinner." Swear to God. That stuck with me in my later D/s relationship for a long time.


fascinating! i can kinda understand the sentiment she expressed, if it was intended as an example of her ex's lack of dominance and authority in the relationship and general, and not solely that he didn't tell her what to fix for dinner, lol. how did that statement from her make you feel?



Aileen1968 -> RE: Qns about 24/7 (7/9/2009 12:07:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth


I expect in reality I'm in a coma someplace in Northern NJ. However, I'm grateful to my 'nurse', I must have vaguely been able to read her name badge saying 'Elizabeth', for putting whatever drug she's using into my needle drip.



Hey. NNJ has some redeeming qualities. [:(]



lovingpet -> RE: Qns about 24/7 (7/9/2009 12:10:14 PM)

Though working on getting under the same roof and going the full distance with things, I thought maybe giving a peek at our last visit may be helpful. Consider this a 24/3 portion of an overall relationship if you will. Not every moment was filled with lust and sex and gobs of over control and blatant submission. Okay, so maybe they kind of were, but I digress. LOL

We met up where we would be staying for the weekend after he got off his very physical job and got cleaned up. We ran over to give each other a huge hug and a long awaited kiss. I had been given some specifics about my attire and appearance to follow and he checked them all right there in the parking lot including whether or not I was wearing panties and if my pussy was as he wanted it. A few tugs of hair and a few moments of wondering who should do the driving and we were off. We grabbed a quick meal to take on the road with us since we were both hungry. It was nothing fancy, but hey, such is life. He fiddled with the GPS only to finally give up on the thing while I just waited patiently. The we were off for our fun evening.

We got to the dungeon only after him being VERY distracting while I was trying to drive! [8D] Okay, now who get's the bags? The subbie on the cane or the able bodied Master? We both did some of it. I carried what he gave me to carry. All bets were off inside the club as the raging dominance flowed out and my darned automatic subliness to it just was in overdrive. We played and played losing all track of time. He lead, I followed. He spoke for us in most cases. I went where I was told and did what I was told. After a very surreal drive back, me too far gone to even know how to unlock my own car doors (so he drove back), I found that matters were only going to get all the more intense for me. When he was good and ready, he said bedtime and I got ready according to our ways and got in bed. I was pulled to him more than once by my hair in his sleep and there were some steamy interludes overnight.

The next morning, I called home. I had asked about making calls beforehand and it was agreed I could do so. I got some really bad news. As quiet as I tried to stay so he could get his rest, my crying woke him and he held me and reassured me until I felt better. After getting moving a bit, we decided we were a little hungry, so I got food out of the fridge and we munched a little bit. We lounged most of the day watching tv movies and snuggled up together. I only dressed when and how he told me to when we were finally ready to go out and have "lunch" at 3 in the afternoon. LOL He told me I could order what I wanted, but I waited until he placed his first. I was being teased and mildly terrorized the whole time. We spent the afternoon resting or very much NOT resting as his moods struck. No matter what, he just had to torment the marks he had left the night before. Dinner was handled much the same as lunch.

The next morning, it was time to go. I packed up all my stuff and helped with his. He did most of his own since he knew how he wanted his toys and things put away and I didn't, but he did show me a little bit of how he liked it done. He made two trips down the steps to take our things to our vehicles since I really couldn't handle them safely. Our room, now empty, brought out my tears and he held me and let me know we would do it all again very soon. Hugs, kisses, and gropes in the parking lot along with him checking over my tires, lights, and my oil (LOL) before he let me take off. He told me I should get my brakes checked when I got home, which I did. We parted ways looking forward to next time.

Nope, we're not face to face 24/7, but I think this is a good template of how it would be if we were. Even so, he is ever present and exerting his control and desires over my life whether we are together in person or not. The practical fact is, we cannot be under the same roof without a lot of groundwork laid (work transfer(s), finding a place big enough, affording the expense to move, and all the rest). It doesn't mean that he does not reign in my heart and life just the same. We are 24/7, but definitely not the conventional conception of such. It is not a fairytale, but it is on its way to happily ever after for us.

lovingpet




NihilusZero -> RE: Qns about 24/7 (7/9/2009 12:14:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

"Hello, I'm Merc and I represent to be in a 24/7 relationship with beth, my slave." Stipulating to being, as Michael says, "full of shit". However, not worried or even willing to get into a heated debate about it. A debate yes - but heated? - No way!

You guys are out in Cali. You already have enough heat anyways. [8D]



NihilusZero -> RE: Qns about 24/7 (7/9/2009 12:15:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

Hey. NNJ has some redeeming qualities. [:(]

It certainly did when NY went non-smoking state-wide and people jumped across for nightlife...



Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: Qns about 24/7 (7/9/2009 12:16:07 PM)

Daddy and I both feel you do not have to be un equal to be his submissive. Nor do you have to be un equal to them to always have them be the Dom and you always be the sub. But that is just our opinions, and every ones mileage will vary.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas



To be "24/7 D/s" means that one is always dominant, and the other is always submissive.  That can be just as "straightforward" and "normal" a way to interact with one another as any other way if it is how you naturally relate to and interact with one another.

If you are living with someone that you have play scenes or role-play with frequently, but outside of those play scenes or role-play you relate to each other as equals, that's not "24/7 D/s".  That's having a live in play partner. 



Leonidas -> RE: Qns about 24/7 (7/9/2009 12:31:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Toppingfrmbottom

To be "24/7 D/s" means that one is always dominant, and the other is always submissive.  That can be just as "straightforward" and "normal" a way to interact with one another as any other way if it is how you naturally relate to and interact with one another.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas
If you are living with someone that you have play scenes or role-play with frequently, but outside of those play scenes or role-play you relate to each other as equals, that's not "24/7 D/s".  That's having a live in play partner. 



By that I meant "Having equal power or authority in the household".  I know that just saying "equals" is an imprecise shorthand, but spelling these things out precisely would make for some very long posts.  I know that there are many definitions and aspects to "equality".  So, to be very precise: 

If, outside of episodes of play, or extended periods of role-play from which you occasionally step "out of character", you both have equal power and authority in the household, that is not a full-time (24/7) relationship based on dominance and submission.  It it is having a frequent play partner that lives with you.  Would you and your "Daddy" agree with that?



SimplyMichael -> RE: Qns about 24/7 (7/9/2009 1:02:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

it's also strange to me that you seem to accept and understand a Master and slave like Mercnbeth no problem, but rally against those with similar views.



It isn't whether or not I understand someone's dynamic, it is whether or not I believe it exists.  I have spent a LOT of time with MercnBeth at "Star Trek" conventions like Folsom Fringe and Folsom Street, vacations with them and my partner, at their house, etc.  I KNOW that when Merc or Beth speaks that not only do they believe what they say and that they are actually doing it, but that in my own opinion, their words and what they do in real life match up.

As I have said throughout this post, I base my opinion on extensive real world experience, not just with my own dynamics but with many many other people I know in real life over long periods of time.



Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: Qns about 24/7 (7/9/2009 1:21:50 PM)

We're Daddy / little girl, For us even when I am" kicking ass and taking down names" to speak figurativly,, because it has to be done and I am the only one willing to do it, I am still doing it as his baby.  I am just perhaps a bit more mature and more forceful, than most people think a person in the D/lg role should be . I am doing it because nobody else will and I do not want to see and watch a problem continueing, and I don't want to sit by idly and watch it blow up in our faces and cause serious repercussions and shock waves.



Our Dynamic is very lax I will admit, we mostly operate on  the idea of who can handle it better does it. Or if I am sick of his refusing to deal with it, and it's something I have authority to do,* the people are willing to deal with me and not him, or  a gym membership I can cancel on his behalf because he doesn't have the time to go 2 hours to Petaluma, and a fax letter saying cancel the membership please will suffice, but it needs to be sent in by 3 pm, and it's 2 oclock now and he won't be home for many many hours, I was doing this with his permission on his behalf. So since i am home and he's not, I went and made the fax* I will get in there and get it done. There's somethings I can't do that with like the DMV because the car's in his name not mine and my name is no where on the paperwork, and if HE won't provide the DMV the proof he sold the car so they'll stop billing him for liscencing and smog fee's when he doesn't even own the car any more, Well there's nothing I can do. but if I could I would. Because it needs dealt with and he won't deal with it. Or in some rarer cases didn' th ave time to deal with it, or maybe he didn't have the money to deal with it and I did, so I loaned the money.


I can admit that's not very submissive to most people's standards, but It works for Daddy and I because the bottom line is I am seeing to Daddies over all well being. and in a secondary way my well being since I am affected in a secondary way by these things . If I have to be  now and then a bit agressive to do that, It's an action I will take.





By that I meant "Having equal power or authority in the household".  I know that just saying "equals" is an imprecise shorthand, but spelling these things out precisely would make for some very long posts.  I know that there are many definitions and aspects to "equality".  So, to be very precise: 

If, outside of episodes of play, or extended periods of role-play from which you occasionally step "out of character", you both have equal power and authority in the household, that is not a full-time (24/7) relationship based on dominance and submission.  It it is having a frequent play partner that lives with you.  Would you and your "Daddy" agree with that?
[/quote]



daddysprop247 -> RE: Qns about 24/7 (7/9/2009 2:04:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

it's also strange to me that you seem to accept and understand a Master and slave like Mercnbeth no problem, but rally against those with similar views.



It isn't whether or not I understand someone's dynamic, it is whether or not I believe it exists.  I have spent a LOT of time with MercnBeth at "Star Trek" conventions like Folsom Fringe and Folsom Street, vacations with them and my partner, at their house, etc.  I KNOW that when Merc or Beth speaks that not only do they believe what they say and that they are actually doing it, but that in my own opinion, their words and what they do in real life match up.

As I have said throughout this post, I base my opinion on extensive real world experience, not just with my own dynamics but with many many other people I know in real life over long periods of time.



ah, so the reason you come across as completely disrespectful and insulting to people who live in dynamics contrary to what you personally desire, is because, unless they are people you have met and known face to face over an extended period of time, you doubt that they exist? so i suppose that my Master and i are internet pixie dust as far as you're concerned?



SimplyMichael -> RE: Qns about 24/7 (7/9/2009 3:11:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

ah, so the reason you come across as completely disrespectful and insulting to people who live in dynamics contrary to what you personally desire,


Actually, the people I am closest to on this board, MercnBeth, Knight of Mists, Leadership527 all have dynamics VERY different from mine.

quote:

is because, unless they are people you have met and known face to face over an extended period of time, you doubt that they exist?


Uh, to some extent yeah, just like I don't think all the 18 year old blond hotties from Guyana really want to be my slave or that all the little lesbian chicks are really lesbian chicks.   And it is kind of amusing since you spend a lot of your time posting about how others aren't as true/natural or as submissive as you are.   So forgive me if I tend to think of you sprinkled with pixie dust.



Bluegod -> RE: Qns about 24/7 (7/9/2009 8:35:49 PM)

Thanks for all the input people. You may not believe me, but I actually gained some clarity from all the chaos. I suppose I am looking for complete power exchange but managed in a way where there is adequate discretion. Many of you described your individual approaches and I have to say that most of them if not all were appealing to me. I suspect what I may start out with may not be the way it will end up, just because I have not lived such a life yet and cannot possibly understand or predict all the pitfalls. But you guys have given me plenty to think about and hey,... don't fight over this. Its not worth it. :)

Blue



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