RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? (Full Version)

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LadyConstanze -> RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? (7/14/2009 2:50:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

I thought I was pretty clear . . . .

If the kinksters displaying overt BDSM behaviors are doing it in front of people who did not or could not explicitly consent in a fully informed manner, that's inappropriate, to me.

If this behavior is exhibited in front of those who could & did give full consent, then it's fine & fun & wonderful . . . . ..


Homie...  You are out in public...  I thought I was clear and articulate.

Parents beat the hell out of their kids.  People spit flem infected hockers on the ground.  Bums sleep on the street.  I mean come on.  If we want to look at this legally it has already been established on you give up your right to privacy in public along with many other things.  Consider  the paparazzi.  If you do not like it lock yourself in the basement. 


At least the lady made a good point.


I fail to see how any of the above has anything to do with YOU forcing people to witness your kinks.

If I'd see a parent beat the hell our of a kid, I'd call the cops or social services - as should you, unless you support child abuse, but then I think you lost your right to be considered human. Bums don't sleep on the street because they like it so much but because they have no other place to go.

There might be a difference between celebs courting the press and in return getting hounded by paparazzi - this has EXACTLY WHAT to do with forcing non-consenting people witnessing you express your sexuality in public? Are you so insecure that you need to wear a BDSM badge on your sleeve to have an identity? Do you get off on grossing others out? Is that a valid kink?

I'm about as kinky as the next person here, but if I would see anybody doing BDSM play where UMS are, I'd be the first to call the cops because UMS don't need to see that kind of stuff, they're not ready for it. If you don't like it, well, complain in the cell where the cops might lock you for indecent behavior. Fairly simple!




DemonKia -> RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? (7/14/2009 3:08:14 PM)

*smirk*

I'd be so much more impressed if you debated the ideas in that posting, instead of getting another opportunity to observe you taking offense & snipe, but we each choose which battles we're able to engage . . .. .

& yeah, the whole 'I'm never posting here again' thing in your journal & all the stuff you've said here & on FL makes the line about you, Merc, in your sig very amusing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

I've discovered that absolute consistency is over-rated,
I guess you would have to, wouldn't you?
quote:

not to mention a frequent rhetorical gambit to undermine the other side of a debate . . . . . .
No, all it exposes is personal agenda, or on occasion, lack of fundamental knowledge of the subject matter. Both examples illustrated by people in this thread. Feeling "undermined" because rationalized contradicting positions are compared is appropriate.

quote:

&, hey, Merc, specific to you: might wanna change that sig line . .. . .
Why? beth is still "Mary Poppins Perfect". If the retirement is bothering you, consider me "semi" retired; sadistically enjoying the occasions to point out hypocrisy.




beargonewild -> RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? (7/14/2009 3:13:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian

quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn
How do you feel about the fact rated "G"/PG  public play or 'pride' of your passion would most likely have you socially marginalized? 


It all depends upon how you present it to the public. If the "play" is mind numbingly cliché and devoid of consideration for others who may not wish to be part of your "scene", you'll be viewed in a negative context. You could say that about many things, in fact. I've professionally filmed my Keeper walking men across intersections of New York like dogs. Couples, families and even the police were spellbound and full of questions on more than one occasion. It's all in the packaging and choice of location. There is a time and place for everything.

Oddly enough, it's the homogenized social reinvention of things I tend to feel estranged from. You will never catch me anywhere near a "leather pride" parade. Sometimes it's the attempt to organize and make things culturally "valid" that feels alienating to me.


The one huge glaring irony that I have witnessed over the years, especially with any type of "Pride" festivities which also includes elements of public BDSM activities is at Gay Pride Parades. I have attended Pride in Toronto a few times and attended Pride in Sudbury, which is a blue collar city based upon the nickel mining industry. In every case, there has always been elements of BDSM, semi nudity to Leather groups to groups of individuals who proudly wear a collar and/or their dominant partners having them on a leash. Other then the odd person trying to be disruptive (which there's always a few in any gathering) the overall atmosphere is of acceptance and in some ways entertaining. And to think, vacationing families do attend Pride as a spectator with their underage offspring! So why is it that on a day of Pride celebration showing a bit of kink is fine yet any other time it's not okay?

As an example, Toronto Pride for this year had an estimated 1.5 million spectators and I can safely say that at least one third to half are vanilla heterosexual people who want to be part of the festival atmosphere. Again, many are married couples who have their younguns with them. It is guaranteed that in Toronto's parade, you will see women bare chested, a group of men who wear nothing buy sneakers and a paper leaf over their dangly bits ( they belong to a group called Totally Naked Toronto, a social group), individual parade walkers who are dressed in full fetish gear: whether it's full leathers, Doms with subs scantly clad on a collar and leash, people who are into puppy play dressed in full regalia, etc. Yet in any newspaper or televised clip, there is nothing negative said about these specific groups. I have yet to hear or read a bad press about seeing bystanders or parade participants being condemmed for a full mouth to mouth embrace or seeing one of the Dykes on Bikes  riding around wearing boots and jeans without a top.



MarcEsadrian -> RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? (7/14/2009 3:23:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian
Oddly enough, it's the homogenized social reinvention of things I tend to feel estranged from. You will never catch me anywhere near a "leather pride" parade. Sometimes it's the attempt to organize and make things culturally "valid" that feels alienating to me.


You're not alone.

FTR :
I think the word "parade" is far too "in yer face" that if "organisers" called a "party" instead and put the atmosphere before the $$££$$££ in spin off's then maybe the alienation (for some)would abate and strangers feel more welcome.



It would help somewhat. Without a doubt, fetish / bondage / BDSM / The Krynoid / whatever you want to call it has become an alt capitalist's wet dream, but "the bondage flag" and other forms of esoteric symbolism by organized elitists make me cry far more, not to mention the "oh, you're one of those people" -isms one hears if a riding crop is mentioned for anything other than equestrian use.



CreativeDominant -> RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? (7/14/2009 3:38:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

I've discovered that absolute consistency is over-rated,
I guess you would have to, wouldn't you?
quote:

not to mention a frequent rhetorical gambit to undermine the other side of a debate . . . . . .
No, all it exposes is personal agenda, or on occasion, lack of fundamental knowledge of the subject matter. Both examples illustrated by people in this thread. Feeling "undermined" because rationalized contradicting positions are compared is appropriate.

quote:

&, hey, Merc, specific to you: might wanna change that sig line . .. . .
Why? beth is still "Mary Poppins Perfect". If the retirement is bothering you, consider me "semi" retired; sadistically enjoying the occasions to point out hypocrisy.

quote:

why am I really doing this in public? Because it is who I am? Because I forgot where I am and am now regretting it? Or because I LIKE to do things that I know shock others?


Exactly CD. Judge yourself and not the people you are observing. Similarly to not be pressed into going to an event; don't assume the people who do are doing anything other than what they LIKE doing. Assigning whatever your personal evaluation of the occurrence shouldn't be applied to those participating. Whether that is one day a year at Folsom or every day in your own backyard.
Sorry Merc...I find myself and just about every other human being damn near incapable of holding back judgement.  I've said on other threads that there are certain behaviors I find reprehensible or offensive or just wrong and I will say something about it, just as I expect to be told when my behavior offends someone else.  The difference is that I won't just tell someone to "go fuck themselves", I will actually consider whether or not what I've done IS offensive to the great majority of the public and then if I find it to be so I will, because I expect mannerly consideration out of others towards me, change my public behavior. 

You've spoken of people considering their own standards of behavior as the standard for everyone to follow.  Expecting people to follow a general set of manners...whether it be imposed by the community at large, society in general, or the standards of the group of people putting on a public or paid or private event...is what I expect.  Just as when you hold a gathering at your house, you have a standard of behavior in place for your guests.  While you might allow them to get naked or to scene or to fuck in front of others, if you will not allow them to stab their partner to death or to bleed them into unconsciousness that ends up needing a hospitilization, then you have imposed your own standards on others' behavior.

I have no problem with many behaviors that many just find offensive, partially because of where I am in my own personal life.  But just as I feel that exploration of another's tonsils and genitals in front of people is not the sole way, nor necessarily the best way, of displaying your affection publicly, neither do I feel that setting a dish of food on the ground in the public park for your submissive to eat from, then forcing her to eating position and standing over her while you eat is the sole way of displaying the importance of the life to you.  It's one thing to be invited to an event or to choose to go to an event where you know these type of displays are more likely...tis another to go to an event where you don't expect these types of displays.



CreativeDominant -> RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? (7/14/2009 3:40:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RumpusParable

FR

In simplest terms, I see nothing shameful in what I do.  If I did, I simply wouldn't be doing it.
I don't think fucking is shameful either.  I still am not going to do it at the high school football game.  I might do it at a BDSM club that allowed sexual interaction.  Two very differing arenas with differing expectations of behavior.



sirsholly -> RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? (7/14/2009 3:43:15 PM)

quote:

If the retirement is bothering you, consider me "semi" retired; sadistically enjoying the occasions to point out hypocrisy.
funny thing about pointing the finger at someone else, Merc. When you do it, there are three fingers pointing back at you...



SteelofUtah -> RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? (7/14/2009 4:02:28 PM)

Having followed this thread from the very beginning I have noticed many things.

1) that a general concern for expressing the BDSM Lifestyle is that we offten assume that the world takes offence. When in reality most don't even pick up on it and those who do (From my own expereince) are intrigued.

2) We worry more about censoring what minors might see. I can respect this I have a "Midget" Myself. I get the point you were making Merc but I think it was more just to show the hypocricy of being more conserned by the PC of Language than the PC of peoples Feelings. I do not censor what my child sees or hears, I think it is my job as the parent to explain what he sees and explain my personal tollerance for his emulation of it. I can say for certain that I ALWAYS knew the Bad Words I just knew when I could and could not use them. As for Sexuality...... when was the last time you watched Childrens Programming? Unless it is Educational it is funny how much sexuality I see in TV these days, but with anything **I** choose what is watched and what is not. In Example I do not let my son watch Spongebob Squarepants For the reason that in the restraunt he works at one of the running gags is that he burns himself on the stove or Patrick gets hurt in the kitched and later that are laughing about it. I worry more about my son putting his hand on the stove then I worry about him saying the "F-Word" because I can discipline the "F-Word" much less expensively than I can repair the burned hand.

3) I believe we have become a nation that expects the word to cater to our emotions. I believe this is wrong. My Moral Code is MINE. I should not expect others to uphold it. I can remove myself from situations where I disagree with what is happeneing but I should not expect other people to cater to my comfort unless they agree too. Oddly people try to argue this the other way around and ask shouldn't anyone who witnesses anything you do also agree to it before they are forced to be subjected to it. No. No more than you should have to agree to witnessing a Robbery or a Traffic accident. Most of the time it is wrong place wrong time situations. I perfer to spend my time with like minded people and so as a rule the majority of the people I am with are okay with the subject matter I bring about.

4) We offten cannot discuss these kinds of things without tipping scales to the extreme. When was the last time you witnessed public nudity? How offten has it happened in your life? I know women Flash Cars yet I have never been flashed. I actually happen to find it HILLARIOUS to Stick my Naked Ass out a moving car while maing a "U" Turn. Some would thing that is unacceptable, Maybe they are right. I think it is funny and I enjoyed doing it a LOT in highschool. Would I do it Today? Sure why not might make someone laugh. The Point remains is anytime you leave the sanctity if your home you open yourself to situations you cannot control. Learn to Deal with the situation on a case by case basis and learn to accept that you have no control over these situation only how you deal with them.

5) Finally, I noticed that we assume much when we take into account what people do. I have had the great pleasure of spending time with Mercnbeth, Wyldhrt, BeachMystress, and her toy, I saw how we enteracted in public when we went to the beach and just being around one another together without the setting of a play party. There is NOTHING that I would find unacceptable done by anyone of us in those casual setting that would not pass in the outside world. There was Spanking, when we hit the beach I held the hands of WyldHrt and andi and spanked them both on the beach, just a swat no over the knee no makeing them crawl, however the funny thing is that on that particular beach I honestly believe that if we had done those this it wouldn't have really BOTHERED anyone too much considering what was already there.

I think we all need to take a REALISTIC look at our surrounding for a moment before we get too caught up in what is and what isn't already there when it comes to the things we do and don't want to see.

Steel



CreativeDominant -> RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? (7/14/2009 4:12:21 PM)

You make some valid points Steel.  But part of the problem is that things do get argued to the extreme.  I know Wyld also, though not personally.  I've seen her argue on this thread for not doing certain things in public that others have stated that they should be allowed to do.
I went away to the service 30 years ago, perfectly willing to put my ass on the line for people's rights.  But neither I, nor the people I served with, ever had the idea that Americans...or anyone...have absolute rights.  You have the right to free speech but it is not an absolute right.  There are constrictions on that right, for public safety and for public decency.  You have the right to freedom of expression but it is not an absolute right.  When they hung all kinds of dildos, rotating ones and pushing ones and double-headed ones, at the Public Library in Boulder and called it art many people disagreed.  The judge, and each judge after that, ruled that the display violated community standards of free expression. 



Mercnbeth -> RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? (7/14/2009 4:28:25 PM)

quote:

Sorry Merc...I find myself and just about every other human being damn near incapable of holding back judgment. I've said on other threads that there are certain behaviors I find reprehensible or offensive or just wrong and I will say something about it, just as I expect to be told when my behavior offends someone else. The difference is that I won't just tell someone to "go fuck themselves", I will actually consider whether or not what I've done IS offensive to the great majority of the public and then if I find it to be so I will, because I expect mannerly consideration out of others towards me, change my public behavior.
No need to be sorry. We have no issue regarding judgment. It is when personal judgment becomes public law that I take issue. Similarly no issues regarding speaking up - I do it all the time and encourage it. However, you should agree that "offensive" is a moving target. Ever see a picture of Atlantic City in the 1900's?

There are many people who find the standard dress of LA, both woman and men, "reprehensible". I find myself in many places where I feel the same way. There is no disagreement. Some other person's manner of dress in no way inhibits your ability to not look at it, and/or walk away from the sight of it. Bald fat old guys topless in a park are "offensive". Should they be illegal? The "go fuck yourself" would be what they say if you walked up to them, with police present. At Folsom on the last Sunday of September, well, I can't imagine what a cop would stop; and as 'beargonewild' notes of Toronto; at least 50% in attendance are 'tourists' some pushing strollers. Repeating his question; "So why is it that on a day of Pride celebration showing a bit of kink is fine yet any other time it's not okay?"

Today it's a woman on a leash. Yesterday is was a woman showing an ankle. Tomorrow, or someday, I may actually see a person feeding a sub in a puppy bowl in a park; it will get the same reaction as the aforementioned ankle, except maybe it will get a laugh too.

And yup, the "Capitalist Wet Dreamers" generated in excess of $330,000 last year. [link=http://folsomstreetfair.org/fair-press.php?relNum=92] what did those callas bastards do with that money?
quote:

This year's (2008) eleven (11) Major beneficiaries include:
•AIDS Emergency Fund
•Asian & Pacific Islander Wellness Center
•Episcopal Community Services
•Maitri
•Pets Are Wonderful Support (PAWS)
•Positive Resource Center
•Project Inform
•Queer Cultural Center
•Shanti Project
•St. James Infirmary
•Tenderloin Health
As in past years, The Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence will return to host the gates for both major street fairs. This year's five (5) Supporting beneficiaries include:
•AIDS Legal Referral Panel
•Central City Hospitality House
•Immune Enhancement Project
•New Leaf
•Pacific Center for Human Growth
THOSE CAPITALIST ORGANIZED ELITIST BASTARDS!

quote:

I'd be so much more impressed if you debated the ideas in that posting
Happy to reciprocate with the amusement after all the laughs I get from your posts. But pray tell, what idea did you convey that wasn't addressed? Surely not the misrepresentation regarding admittance to Folsom? Surely not the stipulation you made that you aren't consistent and don't deem it important - why debate? I agree.

quote:

funny thing about pointing the finger at someone else, Merc. When you do it, there are three fingers pointing back at you...
Glad to provide you some source of comfort by posting in lieu of your other issues. I'll accept the posting hypocrisy - no excuse. A pleasure to be so exposed to point to what's occurring here. Where else would we learn that there is a "classy" way to show a breast while breast feeding. Who can help but post where an individuals personal agenda is serving as a reason to ban others from freely expressing their affection in a manner chosen. Yeah - I'll come out of the commitment of posting retirement anytime conserning those issues.

And you of course proud to have a list of "bad words" inappropriate for your children, the pejorative "midget" representation of a person though isn't one of them. I know, I know [sm=agree.gif] Hang in there though, I'm sure someone will say something where you can provide [sm=applause.gif].



BossyShoeBitch -> RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? (7/14/2009 4:43:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bella1965


quote:

ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch
however, I don't deign to engage this person in any further discussions.

Just can't help yourself, can you? *chuckling* Making disparaging remarks about a person's appearance and clothes in a pissy tone isn't flaming? Apparently, you have a complete lack of understanding what constitutes flaming. I could make similar comments about yours, in different degrees, but I'm not that rude or condescending. A lesson you need to learn.





You think that was pissy? Wow.  Not quite sure where I said anything about your appearance.  But apparently you have a complete lack of understanding of what constitutes sarcasm.  Pity.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bella1965
  • Case in point. Breast feeding versus exposure of the female breast. Both are legal, with the stipulation that the exposure of said breast is not for commercial purposes. I find both situations equally tacky but I would just as soon defend an individual's right to do so. Why? Because it is their legally protected right to do so.
Really? 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bella1965

If I find behavior offensive, I distance myself from it or look elsewhere. That is also a right. However, if I'm in a restaurant or some other public venue where I'm paying for a service or product, I do not tolerate screaming brats or public nudity, even for breast feeding. If a pointed look is insufficient, I will politely ask said individuals to cease and desist. No one needs to be subjected to rudeness when they are shelling out funds for satisfaction.


Seems a bit contradictory.  But maybe that's just me.
As for my views on BDSM in public, it's simple.

If there are kids around, please behave like there are little kids around and use good judgement. (No one start a fucking thread on what constitutes good judgement for gawds sake)

If there are no kids around and as long as you aren't taking a dump on my shoe, I don't give a rats ass what you do,






subdude4 -> RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? (7/14/2009 5:01:18 PM)

..............gged and gagged. if more people would man up and take a beating or getting fuckded by dildo unmercifly.



agirl -> RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? (7/14/2009 5:29:26 PM)

FR..... So I'm a kind of *when in Rome* person ......or at least a * seems ok here* type. Yes, all the extremes get dragged out in this kind of discussion........Sports Day at my grandaughters school probably isn't the best place to kneel at M's feet with my cheek on his boot .........but a nudist beach has been and will be again. I've knelt in the most ordinary of cafes and had my foamy hot choccy spoon-fed me....... but we judged the situation first. That takes about 5 seconds. A cursory glance. At the school it would have been silly and caused attention of the kind we have NO interest in gaining. On the beach it caused the *right* kind of attention......ie, approving, interested, accepting, humorous, curious. Again ...a basic, cursory judging of the situation provided all that was needed. An *ok* situation.

For all the words typed here regarding *rights* and what we'd *put up with* and what we wouldn't......... when it comes down to it, the majority of people are perfectly content to just have a nice and drama free time when they're out and about.

There's a BIG world out there and my kids are going to (and have) come across all sorts of things that I've had to explain. That's my job. No matter WHAT age they are, with the other children they mix with, of every persuasion and of hugely varying backgrounds....they will have questions. I'd be far more worried if they didn't.

I don't know about anyone else, but behaving in accordance with the situation hasn't stopped me being myself. I might be the only person wearing a collar at my grandaughters prize-giving, she might know that I have a ring in my *minnie*........... but there's no-one she'd rather see sat in the crowd. I'm a nice person, you see........ a slightly risque one.....but a nice one. One that sits and listens to her reading book, goes through her school report with exaggerated detail and interest, to make her smile and squirm with pleasure and embarrassment.

I haven't had a great deal of choice in the kind of world my kids inhabit.......and the small *herb-garden-of-home* isn't enough to prepare them for drunks, wankers, rude, aggressive, spiteful, ingnorant, bigotted and sexually explicit encounters they are likely to run across at some time or other. Such is the world, such is life.

I don't have to be *correct* to be pleasantly accepted, I don't have to be strident either..... I've found it's really easy to be nice, have a winning smile and actually care about the people around me , no matter who they are.

agirl







GYPZYQUEEN -> RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? (7/14/2009 5:39:43 PM)

OP:  and ALL

very very interesting thread...have been reading it over a period of days..

the OP asked if WE should tolerate "it "and I assumed he meant all ppl..

Now if he meant CM *wes* well most of us would tolerate a lot due to education..knowledge of BDSM etc..

However ..grannies coming from church to a breakfast buffet may not  wish to put up with certain expressions of love of the lifestyle or devotion in BDSM.
Should they?


Tolerance has varying degress..
to allow or permit..
to recognize and respect
to put up with or endure
 
Public action re: BDSM realtionships has degrees of..

Public locations and the ppl frequenting those locales would be a variable also therefore we have millions of possible scenerios.

*Recently in WEST Edmotnon MAll here I saw a man with a long leash swinging from his neck..his DOMME  had a 2nd chain from his cock up the back of his pants inside that she was steering him with..clear to me but not to others..
........no one looked at them at all..paid any mind.

*I was in a video store and a man bent his woman over and smacked her ass.
Again..no one paid attention.( probably becuz she laughed)

*I watched in a bar as a man led a woman to the washroom..said soemthing in her ear and waited outside the door..a clear D-s relationship.He appeared very attentive is all.

Now these are mild ..fitting within the realm of everyday..

Lets say we go to the far left...and I am in a picnic area and a man pulls a woman by the hair from a car...bends her over the picnic table and wallops her then pushes her back. to the car.
Well I would hazard a guess several cell phones would be out dialing 911.
If they kissed after would it make a dif?

Many ppl in public feel protective of others..have inate desires to end violence..are courageous in coming to others aid..and could easily misunderstand a BDSM situation.IN general we live in a FEAR based society..that is narrow as well.

That is one problem I see..and the degree of the D-s being 'shared"

Another thing I see is REACTION of public...so if the woman in the video store..wailed and fought ...well...what would an expected reaction/response be?
IS it worth displaying in a way that illisates strong reaction becuz you feel it is a right and you are proud..??

TO TOLERATE IT??ENDURE IT?? by the public.. I doubt it
because to the av JOE it is not BDSM they are seeing  it is something else.
They have no frame of reference to go by...no brain file to pull out here.


There are area where more is permitted..allowed...such as bars..wow
...............areas where more is recognized and even respected.
but the word ENDURE..keeps coming back to me..

Why should someone have to endure an action I put forth that makes them very very uncomfortable..??

I am not ashamed of my life at all...or how I live but when
I plan exhibitionism or public display or live day to day with my boys it is with discretion in public mind..why??

I respect and tolerate others rights to a comfortable cafe scene..restaurant...bar..mall..just as I want a comfortable environment.

I recognize their ideas and beliefs as valid also
I put up with and endure their ways too..

except for country music..

Although I care not who accepts me anymore...at all...
I really liked what someone said about educating/sharing in really creative ways such as the rickshaw..I am sure it was not the intent but now the rickshaw has shown many about a loving and creative relationship that works
 
AGAIN as an old school marm as I have said before I think education is primary if one wishes acceptance or tolerance.
 
#1 is to unravel dibilitating notions and misconceptions
which I feel cannot be done by having a dog dish in a cafe..
 
IN the back of my mind..I keep thinking

HOW would having the public tolerate my "displays" of BDSM enhance my life??

it wouldn't actaully
 
 


GQ



thornhappy -> RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? (7/14/2009 6:03:29 PM)

...changed my mind...



NihilusZero -> RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? (7/14/2009 6:10:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

she? I responded to Merc.


My mistake. I had thought it might be but had recalled reading a recent journal entry of theirs where he had mentioned wanting to take a break for the fora. And since I didn't see his signature at the end of the message, I guessed incorrectly.



agirl -> RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? (7/14/2009 6:19:07 PM)

 It's far too simple to suggest using common-sense. We use it for everything else (or most people here say they do).

In my little town in the UK, you can *get away* with an awful lot compared to some towns in the US. In London, even more.

Come on, I wouldn't trek over the pond and expect to meet the same cultural acceptance .......so I don't expect it in the next town , the next village or the next family.

Even my children don't expect to behave the way they do at home, when they are either in someone elses home, or out and about. When they were in their *gothy* phase, they removed spiked wristbands , in case they accidentally caught a granny or a small child. They , even at THAT age , knew that it was *ok* in certain situations. What a lot of nonsense going on.

agirl




NihilusZero -> RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? (7/14/2009 6:22:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

But frankly Nihilus...isn't part of the reason murder is illegal is not just because it is taking away another's right...to life...is because people find it morally offensive?

That's how it is, yes. Personally, I'd strip the concept of whether it's offensive (since it obviously isn't for some people in some cases. Think about anyone who agrees with the death penalty, for instance) and deal simply with the fact that that action directly harms another's freedom. I think that is the fundamental building block of ethics (and I don't really think much more needs to be built upon that).

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

I go along with freedom too and anyone who has read any of my posts in the Politics section knows how I feel about nannyists.  My feelings about freedom are still that I should be free to do what I wish to do while still being considerate of others and their wishes up to a reasonable point.  That reasonable point?  The point where most of society is comfortable.

I can't buy that argumentum ad populum, though. Too much oppression has historically found its remnants of life in the allowance of it for popularity's sake for me to feel soundly comfortable in using that as a good measuring stick.

I think marie2 made a great point about one of the few exemptions that should be made: concerning when someone's obvious only motive in 'expressing their freedoms' is to flaunt it in the face of someone who has not put themselves in the position to expect that (meaning, a Dallas Cowboys fan at a Redskin game, by virtue of being there, cannot possibly imagine he's not gonna get stuff flauntes in his face...although I'd like to think even in that scneario, general sportsmanship would prevail).

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

We are not a democracy, we are a constitutional republic with democratic ideals.  Personally, I don't like people exploring their partner's tonsils amd genitals in front of me and my ums or, now that they are grown, in front of me and my grandum.  If I notice other people around me who are just as uncomfortable by the display but afraid to speak up, I will do so.  To me, it is not just a matter of manners but also a matter of circumspection...my professional life requires that I maintain a certain image in order to have and maintain a practice...and a matter of asking myself that question raised earlier...why am I really doing this in public?  Because it is who I am?  Because I forgot where I am and am now regretting it?  Or because I LIKE to do things that I know shock others?

Good questions. Unfortunately, though, there will mostly be situations where the only real answer is known to the person doing the acts and, while I'm fond of skepticism as a default thinking process, I think it's unfair to have the general mentality be one that assumes it's done just for attention whoring purposes.



CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? (7/14/2009 6:32:49 PM)

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I take it that everyone agreeing and applauding this supports the "right wing" position of many communities in the US concerning same sex partners holding hands and showing affection to each other. How "self centered" of them to show their love for their partner in public! Let's chain them up and drag them behind the pick-up for a few miles and scrape off that disgusting homosexuality from their sinning bodies.


Excuse me, but having a recognition for being polite about PDAs in public has NOTHING to do with homosexuality or showing affection. There is absolutely NO gender-combination issue about PDAs. There are people who take into consideration how their PDAs fit into the environment in which they're doing them, regardless of who is doing them, and there are people, regardless of gender, who do things in PG environments that are better kept to environments where more intense PDAs wouldn't be considered rude.

Informationally, the individuals (I refuse to slap the 'right wing' or 'left wing' labels on, since the behaviors seem to cross those boundaries at will in any case) who insist on forcing their biases on others and who do not treat all individuals, regardless of race, color, gender, etc., as human beings first, including those who will censure a gay couple for doing something that a straight couple wouldn't get a second glance for are -just- as rude as the individuals (let me specify a hetero couple, in this case, just so my intent is clear) who, say, get toasted and lap-dance and dry-hump in a fine restaurant in the middle of a Sunday afternoon brunch.

It is disturbing that someone would actually take the statement of "it is important to have good manners, and to respect the people around you when you choose how to present yourself in public" and twist it into "You must be homophobic and right wing", and actually, it sort of proves my point. *sigh*

Dame Calla




NihilusZero -> RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? (7/14/2009 6:58:20 PM)

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ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

It is disturbing that someone would actually take the statement of "it is important to have good manners, and to respect the people around you when you choose how to present yourself in public" and twist it into "You must be homophobic and right wing", and actually, it sort of proves my point. *sigh*

Agreed. Yet, a lot of the arguments in support of prioritized courtesy seem to keep using the word "responsibility" as if it should be socially mandatory. Socially preferable? I'd probably agree with that. But there's a big enough difference between the two that I can understand it coming across to some viewers that it's just a reflection of mandated, projected morality.



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