slavery, housework, gender politics, etc.

slavery, housework, gender politics, etc. (Full Version)

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sravaka -> slavery, housework, gender politics, etc. (7/15/2009 6:35:14 AM)
I find myself stewing about something on and off and am interested in hearing from others who may have experienced similar things. I met a smashingly excellent D-type a few months ago (here! of all places!), and after a whirlwind getting to know you period, we're 14 time zones apart for the summer, but both invested & looking forward picking up where we left off when I get back. It affords me vast opportunity to stew in theory without the comfort of incrementally successful practice. I identify as a slave, and have rather rigid ideas about what that means-- everything his to decide, nothing off limits, total obedience from me, long term if not permanent commitment, etc., etc. Aforementioned D-type and I are working toward that sort of thing, but taking our time to make sure it's the right thing to do. What is getting to me is an extremely stupid thing: the prospect of being responsible for housework. Sometimes I imagine cooking/cleaning/errand running for him with great joy. Other times his saying something casual about my cooking or doing his laundry or whatever provokes an immediate, visceral "The hell I will," in my head. (yes, it's visceral and in my head all at once.) Obviously not very slave-y, and kind of shocking to me whenever it happens. It's service, right? Service is a good thing. I like service, I swear. I have a demanding career, and he supports my continuing in it even though it's going to force us to be 6 hours apart for at least the next couple years. (it's demanding work-wise, but flexible time-wise so this is more feasible than it probably sounds.) So, I know that some of my reaction is coming from the practical aspect of it-- I can barely keep my own house clean and organized when I get busy, and don't cook particularly well, and so on. I've also never been in a relationship where housework wasn't viewed as something that everyone pitched in on fairly equally (or, where the guy was more domestic than I was), and I'm aware that this is pretty much how I'd react if a vanilla man were making assumptions. Something in the gender politics is raising my hackles in a way that I recognize is totally not applicable. (as in, the principle may be irking me more than anything else?) I know, I know-- "What are you asking strangers for? Talk to him." I have, and I will do so further. I'm just curious if others have experienced this kind of reaction to housework (or anything else), and how you managed it internally. I do try to refocus on the serving and pleasing him aspect, and that helps, but this visceral reaction still comes along sometimes anyway, and i'd really like to be rid of it.

maia09 -> RE: slavery, housework, gender politics, etc. (7/15/2009 8:15:43 AM)
Don't know if you've ever read this, but i highly recommend the book "SlaveCraft". Although it's written by a gay male in the leather world, it's a great book in terms of the psychology of slavery. Another interesting site Master and i learn from is Born Slaves.com. Sounds to me like upi imderstand your slavery on an intellectual level, but haven't yet embraced it completely on an emotional level. It's okay, you're in the process of accepting and embracing your slavery. Knowing your goal mentally, and being there emotionally are oftentimes 2 different things. Be patient and persistent and if you are slave, you will find yourself where you want to be.

sweetsub1957 -> RE: slavery, housework, gender politics, etc. (7/15/2009 9:18:24 AM)
Could it be that that visceral reaction comes along when you're totally exhausted from your work? Or could it be that you're still working into the realities of slave and you're just not quite there yet? I identify as sub rather than slave, as I know I'm not cut out at this point to be slave, so maybe I don't understand. But I know that everything is a process & has a learning curve & is affected by day-to-day life problems, no matter who you are or what you call yourself. You should talk to your D-type about these things & unless He's totally unreasonable, He will probably work with you on them. Or maybe you'd feel more comfortable starting out at sub and working your way into slave? It wouldn't be the end of the world. Anyway, good luck. :)

agirl -> RE: slavery, housework, gender politics, etc. (7/15/2009 9:36:27 AM)
I'd adjust my rigid ideas and not even BOTHER contorting myself over them. When you've had a chance to see if your ideas fit into the practical situation.......then you'll know. It's that simple. Why not just wait and see? You know how you'd LIKE things etc ........ but until you have a go, you can't have a grasp on how it'll work out. I certainly have all SORTS of reactions to the IDEA of doing certain things. I hated the THOUGHT of having to get up and make him a coffee in the mornings. The reality isn't much different to the idea... I don't like it but I still have to do it. He knows I don't like it and I still have to do it. But it's DIFFERENT to the idea. agirl

janiebelle -> RE: slavery, housework, gender politics, etc. (7/15/2009 10:31:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: agirl I'd adjust my rigid ideas and not even BOTHER contorting myself over them. When you've had a chance to see if your ideas fit into the practical situation.......then you'll know. It's that simple. Why not just wait and see? You know how you'd LIKE things etc ........ but until you have a go, you can't have a grasp on how it'll work out. I certainly have all SORTS of reactions to the IDEA of doing certain things. I hated the THOUGHT of having to get up and make him a coffee in the mornings. The reality isn't much different to the idea... I don't like it but I still have to do it. He knows I don't like it and I still have to do it. But it's DIFFERENT to the idea. agirl Agirl has hit upon a good point: the thought is often found to be more reviled than the deed. OP, think back on that list of "I would hate that" and the list of "I don't want that" things from your past. How many of those things seem pretty inconsequential because you were pushed to get over it, take the plunge, and do them that first, second, and tenth time? I know that many things I resisted intellectually at first later became second nature to me. People are usually a lot more able to adapt than they think they are. And if having to suck it up on the housework really does become your biggest problem: A) consider yourself lucky B) hire it done if you don't have the time j

DesFIP -> RE: slavery, housework, gender politics, etc. (7/15/2009 10:39:30 AM)
If the two of you both have demanding careers then hire someone else to come in once a week or every two weeks. Then work out the rest between you. But if you spend 10 hours a day at work, plus two hours commuting, there is no way you can come home and spend three hours making a fabulous feast and doing all the cleaning. So learn how to do it more efficiently. The two of you could take a cooking class together. You might discover you love cooking once you know how, he might discover a love of baking. Usually he cleans up after dinner while I put away the leftovers. Sharing this means he isn't sitting alone waiting for me to finish. If he's working on something, I do it all. If I'm busy with something else, he's been known to do it all. You can cook one day a week and make enough cold chicken and meat to use in other dishes during the week quickly.

redhead71 -> RE: slavery, housework, gender politics, etc. (7/15/2009 12:13:53 PM)
While there are definate roles a slave must fill to call herself a slave, the great thing about being in a loving relationship is you both have the freedom to make your relationship whatever you want that will work for the both of you. I am in a very similar situation and couldn't possibly be responsible for all the house work and cooking. Our arrangement is...I MUST fix coffee in the morning, and I MUST have the bed made each morning, and I MUST wash the dishes. Other than that...If I have time to throw in a load of laundry I do...If he has the time..he does. We decided those three chores would be all mine, everything else would be shared.

littlesarbonn -> RE: slavery, housework, gender politics, etc. (7/15/2009 3:59:42 PM)
You know, there's nothing wrong with deciding that certain behaviors aren't acceptable to you as a slave or submissive. It's not a contest to have to achieve the ultimate sense of surrender. If there were things I just couldn't do, then if I had a partner that was so set on me having to do "those" things, chances are pretty good I'd find another partner. Fortunately, that's not a problem for me, but if it was, I'd red card it in a second because part of becoming a slave means finding happiness in what you do. If something doesn't make you happy, then why would you expend the energy doing it? There's only so much "she/he will be pleased if I do this" before you start to feel "why the hell am I doing this if I don't get anything out of it?" Finding the perfect balance is your responsibility, and I've discovered that if you find someone who isn't willing to entertain that concept as part of the dynamic, that person is better off scrounging for some other slave or submissive.

newone11 -> RE: slavery, housework, gender politics, etc. (7/15/2009 5:23:38 PM)
I do the housework and the cooking. He does the yard work and takes out the trash. But, and it's a big one, chores are done on my time and in my order. He just wants a neat and tidy house but how it gets, or stays, that way makes no difference to him. Traditional roles works for us. The kitchen is usually cleaned up after dinner. But if I'm too tired to wash what didn't fit in the dishwasher then they stay until the next day. Same with laundry so long as he has enough work clothes to tide him over until I get the rest finished. (I usually do at least one load every other day so that it doesn't become overwhelming and it keeps him in uniforms.) If the dog doesn't get brushed that day there's a fairly good chance she'll be around for me to do it the next. And, if folks in the home aren't slobs it makes a HUGE difference in the amount of time, effort and energy housework requires. If both you and your partner are satisfied then it's the right way for your home.

barelynangel -> RE: slavery, housework, gender politics, etc. (7/15/2009 5:40:30 PM)
To me it comes down to priorities and what he wishes. i worked (because he allowed it because i wanted to work more so than my needing to work) and because he didn't want an exhausted slave and would rather had the time i would have spent doing housework etc focused on him. he hired not only a nanny but a housekeeper combination, he had a cleaning service come in twice a month for deep cleaning. But it comes down to what HE wants from you. if he wants you working and allows you to do so in a demanding career, then he is going to have to make some choices so he can achieve what he wants from you in his life. Maybe he does simply want a woman who will bring in money, clean and not have time for him. Or maybe he will take it all in hand and manage it all without you being exhausted or never having time for him because you are running around doing everything else. I think instead of focusing on how you are going to do everything, find out what he wants from you as a slave. I mean from what i understand you have 6 years to figure it out, yes? angel

CatdeMedici -> RE: slavery, housework, gender politics, etc. (7/15/2009 6:33:05 PM)
Sometimes you can be just too pooped to pop--however, I'd examine if Master does this everytime you do something, nit picking can eat at a relationship pretty damn fast.

petmonkey -> RE: slavery, housework, gender politics, etc. (7/16/2009 12:27:54 AM)
On Gender Politics To outsiders, each task is shared in the home. To insiders, support in doing those tasks is shared. It may be a lesson in balancing your demanding career with the rest of your life.

PrincessDonna -> RE: slavery, housework, gender politics, etc. (7/16/2009 1:05:34 AM)
Like its been said if you are too busy hire someone OR maybe you want to take on a slave intraining to do the housework and things you dont enjoy or have time for but only you know if the relationship is secure enough for that!

vasha -> RE: slavery, housework, gender politics, etc. (7/16/2009 9:27:22 AM)
quote: I'm just curious if others have experienced this kind of reaction to housework (or anything else), and how you managed it internally. I do try to refocus on the serving and pleasing him aspect, and that helps, but this visceral reaction still comes along sometimes anyway, and i'd really like to be rid of it. i know exactally how you feel. yes, its normal. and submitting to Her , or your Dom's in this case, wishes at times like these is a concious matter. sometimes that's what it takes so i do so. sacrifice... putting your Dominant above yourself, this is devotion. there are often later payoffs are... more then worth whatever sacrifice is made by-the-by. even if its just a sense of a job well done. my Dominant's happy, im happy. :)

DesFIP -> RE: slavery, housework, gender politics, etc. (7/16/2009 1:03:02 PM)
Vasha, really? No matter what? Because it doesn't work that way for me, scrubbing a bathtub only gives me a backache, and then I'm good for nothing while I sit with a heating pad and wait for the Advil to take effect. Even if he bothered to notice how clean it was, I would still be in pain for days and unhappy. Which is why every two weeks a very nice lady comes and does the heavy cleaning.

vasha -> RE: slavery, housework, gender politics, etc. (7/16/2009 1:41:21 PM)
des, i did say "often" and i did not say "no matter what". nor intend to imply it. there is after all, exceptions to every single rule in existance. always will be

ISOHOH49 -> RE: slavery, housework, gender politics, etc. (7/16/2009 5:08:12 PM)
I must be missing something in your post But for now you are 14 time zone apart until the end of summer. And after that you will be 6 hours apart for the next couple of years. So what I don't understand is how much time will you 2 be under the same roof. Will it be during period of time when you are not working like the weekend and vocation. It seem that you are all worked up over the what if. What if he want me to do this and what if he want me to do that. If he understand about your job and has a demanding job himself, he may just want you to be near him when you are there. Please try to enjoy the moment and not get ahead of yourself. This is a problem that I have also.

maia09 -> RE: slavery, housework, gender politics, etc. (7/17/2009 8:47:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sravaka I find myself stewing about something on and off and am interested in hearing from others who may have experienced similar things. I met a smashingly excellent D-type a few months ago (here! of all places!), and after a whirlwind getting to know you period, we're 14 time zones apart for the summer, but both invested & looking forward picking up where we left off when I get back. It affords me vast opportunity to stew in theory without the comfort of incrementally successful practice. I identify as a slave, and have rather rigid ideas about what that means-- everything his to decide, nothing off limits, total obedience from me, long term if not permanent commitment, etc., etc. Aforementioned D-type and I are working toward that sort of thing, but taking our time to make sure it's the right thing to do. What is getting to me is an extremely stupid thing: the prospect of being responsible for housework. Sometimes I imagine cooking/cleaning/errand running for him with great joy. Other times his saying something casual about my cooking or doing his laundry or whatever provokes an immediate, visceral "The hell I will," in my head. (yes, it's visceral and in my head all at once.) Obviously not very slave-y, and kind of shocking to me whenever it happens. It's service, right? Service is a good thing. I like service, I swear. I have a demanding career, and he supports my continuing in it even though it's going to force us to be 6 hours apart for at least the next couple years. (it's demanding work-wise, but flexible time-wise so this is more feasible than it probably sounds.) So, I know that some of my reaction is coming from the practical aspect of it-- I can barely keep my own house clean and organized when I get busy, and don't cook particularly well, and so on. I've also never been in a relationship where housework wasn't viewed as something that everyone pitched in on fairly equally (or, where the guy was more domestic than I was), and I'm aware that this is pretty much how I'd react if a vanilla man were making assumptions. Something in the gender politics is raising my hackles in a way that I recognize is totally not applicable. (as in, the principle may be irking me more than anything else?) I know, I know-- "What are you asking strangers for? Talk to him." I have, and I will do so further. I'm just curious if others have experienced this kind of reaction to housework (or anything else), and how you managed it internally. I do try to refocus on the serving and pleasing him aspect, and that helps, but this visceral reaction still comes along sometimes anyway, and i'd really like to be rid of it. What we imagine and what we are actually capable of oftentimes are not the same thing. From my own experience a slave evolves. i think reactance and resistance are quite natural and won't be forced out of a person. So, yes tell your Master what you feel, neither demanding you or He be any different, just as a fact. Then it's in His hands to consider. Chairman trains me in areas that i feel resistance in but i have to be willing to accept the training and face whatever fears i may have in regard to His orders and demands.

sublace -> RE: slavery, housework, gender politics, etc. (7/17/2009 9:23:31 AM)
Sometimes the ultimate act of surrender is hiring out. Practical delagation of mundane work - hiring a cleaning service - shouldn't make one less a slave. <cringe>

sravaka -> RE: slavery, housework, gender politics, etc. (7/17/2009 11:13:34 AM)
Thank you so much for your wisdom, everyone! A few quick replies: maia09-- thanks for the reading suggestions. You are entirely correct that my grip on all this is much more intellectual than emotional or anything else at this point-- there's still a very long row to hoe before I get where I (we) want to be. sweetsub1957-- yes, I'm infinitely likelier to have that visceral reaction when I'm feeling overwhelmed otherwise. This is an ongoing thing-- I'm constantly getting in trouble for failing to reveal that I'm feeling stressed out until it's gotten rather late in the game. I'm much more accustomed to trying to manage everything myself and just present the results. He's actually a lot more realistic and reasonable than I am.... Related, angel (waves!)-- your grasp of all this never ceases to amaze and cheer. This is almost exactly what he says. How he chooses to use my time is really not my problem.... and that fact is infinitely liberating when I'm not losing sight of it. Agirl and janiebelle and ISOHOH-- again, you're all totally right about the difference between the idea and the reality, and I appreciate the reminder. (ISOHOH-- I do have long tracts of time when I work at home (summers, e.g.) and I expect to spend those with him. I don't think the 6 hour distance would be doable otherwise.) DesFIP and everyone who mentioned hiring out-- YES! Happily, he doesn't care how this stuff gets done, as long as it's done. It's an obvious and elegant solution. littlesarbonn-- Your response was particularly interesting to me-- thank you. I absolutely agree that sometimes it's necessary to cut losses and recognize that it's just not a good fit.... and actually all this is something I might have "red-carded" not so long ago. But I've come to think I overreact to this particular thing. It's not as though he's trying to turn me into a 50s housewife. It's interesting and odd, though, to be in a position where it's not about negotiating a compromise. It's more of an "assess, and take or leave." My assessment is that he is in fact quite reasonable about this, if only for the sake of having a more effective/serviceable slave. He's just not above tormenting me with visions of meatloaf and similar horrors. You've all been so helpful. I really appreciate your taking the time to respond. sravaka

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