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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/26/2009 10:48:46 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Well unless I am mistaken, the present health care bill won't change any of that.


Won't change the theft ethic?  I am afraid you are right.

That the present proposal (whatever it is) will not change much?  I am afraid you are right.

It will take me time to liquidate what is left but immigrating somewhere seems prudent.



Let's car pool and save a few bucks. Coming from Minnesota, I can swing down through Chicago and pick you up in the ol' Subaru on my way through Michigan.


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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/26/2009 11:52:50 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
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quote:

Bill Moyers Journal . Trudy Lieberman and Marcia Angell PBS
Well, if these ladies are correct as to what the bill actually entails, then it should indeed be defeated, and Obama should be lobbying against it. From what they said is in the bill, and they are certainly qualified to understand it and comment on it, it will solve none of the problems and will only serve to drive up costs. the promised "public option" may indeed help to keep prices down, but we need to see just what that public option entails before we can judge that.



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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/26/2009 11:59:03 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

Bill Moyers Journal . Trudy Lieberman and Marcia Angell PBS
Well, if these ladies are correct as to what the bill actually entails, then it should indeed be defeated, and Obama should be lobbying against it. From what they said is in the bill, and they are certainly qualified to understand it and comment on it, it will solve none of the problems and will only serve to drive up costs. the promised "public option" may indeed help to keep prices down, but we need to see just what that public option entails before we can judge that.




I hope they pass it and then I hope he vetoes it and tells the Congress to go to hell. And then I hope Obama tells the American people why he did it and tells everything. And then I hope he gets reelected and I hope they throw the bums out in Congress, Congressman and Senators, who are obstructing and shamming the American people. I hope this can be done in the next midterm elections.

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 403
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/27/2009 12:14:57 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline 		I see no reason at all to believe he would veto it. He's been the one demanding they give him a bill, any bill, to sign as soon as possible. The political calculation says he'll sign just about anything they toss onto his desk, because he knows that as hard as it's been to get the bill passed this year, it'll be ten times as hard in an election year. And if it doesn't get passed at all, it'll be the defeat that cripples his presidency, just as the same issue devastated the Clintons in 93. He's too cunning and too ambitious to let that happen. He'll sign whatever they give him to sign, and we'll be stuck with it for years if we're lucky, generations if we're not. I'd better brush up on that Canadian geography.

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Profile   Post #: 404
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/27/2009 4:31:48 AM   
cadenas


Posts: 517
Joined: 11/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Life expectancy at age 5 is higher in the US than Canada and every Western European country.


That would likely be a statistical artifact due to the higher mortality rate until age 4. Basic evolution, actually - the weakest babies have died off earlier. So it is indeed logical that US 5-year-olds would on average be healthier than Canadian or European children. It doesn't stay that way, though - poorer health care in the USA will bring the health of the US kid back down within a few years.


(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 405
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/27/2009 4:35:24 AM   
cadenas


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Joined: 11/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth
It's infected now. I don't have the money to go to the ER any more than I did a month ago.

It doesnt cost any money to go to the ER.


That only goes to show how little you know about health care. Of course it costs money to go to an ER! I think the average ER bill is around $800 or so.


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Profile   Post #: 406
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/27/2009 4:40:45 AM   
cadenas


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Joined: 11/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

I dont remember where I heard it but since 90% of the outrage over health care in the US is the "uninsured" issue, someone proposed that the government fund free clinics for the uninsured, with mandatory service at a clinic at very low salaries, for any doctor applying for a license. (Say a minimum of 3 years of service that could be performed over a 10 year period, so there is reduced economic pressure on the doc). The clinics can be privately owned and operated, with the only government intervention the payment of the salary for the docs during their minimum service period.

It wont cost $1 trillion, and it will cover all of the uninsured, not just 2/3 of them.


That would likely be unconstitutional - basically, indentured servitude. It's also a very bad idea because doctors are already leaving the field in droves since a general practitioner now makes very little money in the first place - the health insurances are squeezing them as much as they are squeezing patients.

It's also not politically feasible. We actually have a program right now that works very similarly, but is limited to 30 doctors per state. It's called the Conrad 30 (this is constitutional because it grants a visa).


(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 407
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/27/2009 1:40:23 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

Bill Moyers Journal . Trudy Lieberman and Marcia Angell PBS
Well, if these ladies are correct as to what the bill actually entails, then it should indeed be defeated, and Obama should be lobbying against it. From what they said is in the bill, and they are certainly qualified to understand it and comment on it, it will solve none of the problems and will only serve to drive up costs. the promised "public option" may indeed help to keep prices down, but we need to see just what that public option entails before we can judge that.




I would love to see a health care plan in the US similar to that of other countries. Unfortunately, too many Americans have been lied to. The best way is to give Americans the choice of public health care vs private. That way they can try both. Let Americans see for ourselves that public is better. As more people discover that public is better, more will start choosing that option and the lies will no longer be believed. At that point, things can be altered.

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 408
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/27/2009 3:07:25 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		If it doesn’t have a public option, choice of public health care vs private, I hope he uses his presidential veto and sends it back and I hope it becomes a midterm election issue to bring down a few more Republican congressmen and senators.

Democrat says health overhaul needs GOP to pass
Senate Democrats alone cannot pass President Barack Obama's ambitious overhaul of how Americans receive health care, a top lawmaker acknowledged on Sunday. Republicans said they will continue their opposition to a plan they say is simply a government takeover of private decisions.



AP Sources: Bipartisan group omitting Dem goals
WASHINGTON -Officials say that a bipartisan group in the Senate is edging closer to a health care compromise that omits a government insurance option that President Barack Obama favors. Nor is it expected to require businesses to offer coverage to their employees.

http://news.aol.com/article/democrat-says-health-overhaul-needs-gop/588219?cid=12



(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 409
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/27/2009 3:23:55 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		50 Excellent Blogs to Learn About the Upcoming Healthcare Crisis

http://onlinesurgicaltechniciancourses.com/2009/50-excellent-blogs-to-learn-about-the-upcoming-healthcare-crisis/

(in reply to Brain)
Profile   Post #: 410
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/27/2009 3:33:16 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		Almost 10 Percent of U.S. Medical Costs Tied to Obesity
Only a return to healthy behaviors will bringing expenditures down, experts say.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Healthday/story?id=8184975&page=1

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Profile   Post #: 411
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/27/2009 4:03:41 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Life expectancy at age 5 is higher in the US than Canada and every Western European country.


That would likely be a statistical artifact due to the higher mortality rate until age 4. Basic evolution, actually - the weakest babies have died off earlier. So it is indeed logical that US 5-year-olds would on average be healthier than Canadian or European children. It doesn't stay that way, though - poorer health care in the USA will bring the health of the US kid back down within a few years.




But it does stay that way, that is why LE>5 is greater! If it "brought the kid back down" then LE>5 wouldnt be higher.

(in reply to cadenas)
Profile   Post #: 412
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/27/2009 4:04:38 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		Reach of Subsidies Is Critical Issue for Health Plan

“We have to make sure that the health plans are affordable to average Americans,” said Senator Olympia J. Snowe, Republican of Maine. Many may find the proposed fees too high.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/27/health/policy/27health.html?_r=1&th=&adxnnl=1&emc=th&adxnnlx=1248734214-RlHo6f1u/xmKPGKk+/xvGQ

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Profile   Post #: 413
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/27/2009 4:04:55 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth
It's infected now. I don't have the money to go to the ER any more than I did a month ago.

It doesnt cost any money to go to the ER.


That only goes to show how little you know about health care. Of course it costs money to go to an ER! I think the average ER bill is around $800 or so.




And an individual isnt required to pay for it by law.

(in reply to cadenas)
Profile   Post #: 414
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/27/2009 4:07:56 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

I dont remember where I heard it but since 90% of the outrage over health care in the US is the "uninsured" issue, someone proposed that the government fund free clinics for the uninsured, with mandatory service at a clinic at very low salaries, for any doctor applying for a license. (Say a minimum of 3 years of service that could be performed over a 10 year period, so there is reduced economic pressure on the doc). The clinics can be privately owned and operated, with the only government intervention the payment of the salary for the docs during their minimum service period.

It wont cost $1 trillion, and it will cover all of the uninsured, not just 2/3 of them.


That would likely be unconstitutional - basically, indentured servitude.


Internships and residencies arent "indentured servitude" but you need them to get a license. Changing the terms of them wouldnt be unconstitutional if they arent already. Obama has already taken unconstitutional actions in the name of bailouts. At least this one has a chance of doing something.

(in reply to cadenas)
Profile   Post #: 415
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/27/2009 4:12:47 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth
It's infected now. I don't have the money to go to the ER any more than I did a month ago.

It doesnt cost any money to go to the ER.


That only goes to show how little you know about health care. Of course it costs money to go to an ER! I think the average ER bill is around $800 or so.




And an individual isnt required to pay for it by law.



What law would that be Willbeur?

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 416
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/27/2009 4:18:58 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth
It's infected now. I don't have the money to go to the ER any more than I did a month ago.

It doesnt cost any money to go to the ER.


That only goes to show how little you know about health care. Of course it costs money to go to an ER! I think the average ER bill is around $800 or so.




And an individual isnt required to pay for it by law.



What law would that be Willbeur?



The laws of 50 states.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 417
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/27/2009 4:20:59 PM   
BossyShoeBitch


Posts: 3931
Joined: 1/13/2007
From: South Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

A personal story:

I lost my healthcare recently due to layoffs. As a result, when I had to dig through a clogged sink and stabbed myself in the hand with a roommate's carelessly discarded steak knife, I just cleaned out the wound the best I could and bandaged up the hand.

It's infected now. I don't have the money to go to the ER any more than I did a month ago.

Now, talk to me about the ethics of capitalism. Should I lose my hand? I'm normally a pretty good computer programmer, repairman, you name it; there's just not much I can do right now in this market, and I'm trying to go back to school. But I'd really like to be back in the game soon, and I'd really rather have two hands to do that with than one.

Should I lose my hand?

Who will be the first to tell me, "tough shit, get a job you bum"?

Seriously?  How many days ago did this happen?  Did you put antibiotic ointment on it and change the bandages?  What about urgent care centers in your area?  You can be seen for $75.


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Profile   Post #: 418
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/27/2009 4:35:53 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas
That only goes to show how little you know about health care. Of course it costs money to go to an ER! I think the average ER bill is around $800 or so.


And an individual isnt required to pay for it by law.

What law would that be Willbeur?

The laws of 50 states.


Nope, sorry.

What law says you do not have to pay for ER treatment?


< Message edited by rulemylife -- 7/27/2009 4:38:50 PM >

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 419
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/27/2009 4:50:17 PM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

A personal story:

I lost my healthcare recently due to layoffs. As a result, when I had to dig through a clogged sink and stabbed myself in the hand with a roommate's carelessly discarded steak knife, I just cleaned out the wound the best I could and bandaged up the hand.

It's infected now. I don't have the money to go to the ER any more than I did a month ago.

Now, talk to me about the ethics of capitalism. Should I lose my hand? I'm normally a pretty good computer programmer, repairman, you name it; there's just not much I can do right now in this market, and I'm trying to go back to school. But I'd really like to be back in the game soon, and I'd really rather have two hands to do that with than one.

Should I lose my hand?

Who will be the first to tell me, "tough shit, get a job you bum"?


The emergency room can not turn you away.

There are resources for low-income people in your state.

You should neither lose your hand, nor your life but no one can force you into choosing workable options.




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Profile   Post #: 420
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