RE: Turned a Master down (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: Turned a Master down (7/18/2009 8:46:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking

Did anyone notice that his profile says he is a male straight slave, and that this post is about serving a "master" and not a mistress?  doesnt this raise some questions?   


And? Have you thought of the fact that you can catch HIV from non sexual contact?


Non sexual contact? care to explain these ways?




DesFIP -> RE: Turned a Master down (7/18/2009 8:49:59 AM)

You can turn him down because he wears sandals with socks if you want. Or because he wears white shoes after Labor Day.

If there's a reason you don't feel comfortable entering into a relationship, then turn him down. And to hell with him trying to change your mind by playing on your guilt and telling you that you aren't a 'twue slavey'. The fact that he does try to play on your emotions instead of allowing you to give informed consent is by itself a sign that you don't want to play with him.

Let him look on a HIV positive board to meet people if he can't get any nonpositives to meet him. He does have options. He exercised his options to play unsafely and get in this position. Yes it's a horrible disease and I've lost too many friends to it. But if you choose to share needles while shooting up, you chose to risk this.




Sunnyfey -> RE: Turned a Master down (7/18/2009 8:50:25 AM)

Easy, bloodplay, cutting, ect....




IronBear -> RE: Turned a Master down (7/18/2009 8:53:15 AM)

When I see a post like the OP's, I take it seriously as a cry either for help or support of a decision taken and in this case I'd say common sense prevailed and the Op backed off. Now I do not give a flying fruit bat's fart what the OP's genital arrangements are or what their sexual orientation is. Both are totally irrelivant when it comes to personal health and safety. As a Dominant, priest, and Psychologist/Counsellor/Therapist I have some conserns when I hear about such events which could for the unwarey, be perhaps lifethreatening. Even were the OP to be all BS, the post itself raises the question of such issues which in themselves are worthy of intelligent thinking, discussions and questions. 




tazzygirl -> RE: Turned a Master down (7/18/2009 9:03:39 AM)

When the CDC makes a list of ways to contract, it mentions only close, sexual contact, other than mother to child, needles and blood transfusions. I thank you for responding because i hate it when only half the story is given. many things we do, as deviants, can also aid in transmission. If the story is true, i commend the Man for being honest.

OP.. when someone gives you all the information to make an informed decision about your health and well being... they are actually encouraging you to think about your choices. The man in question cared enough about you to be honest. He gave you the options, dont question his determination. if he didnt want you to have that option to say yes or no, then he would not have told you.

Instead of questioning your own level of service, thank this man for his honesty. you can still serve him. not all service has to be sexual. even friendship can be a service.




sirsholly -> RE: Turned a Master down (7/18/2009 9:24:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: spittlelick

And i identify as a slave but i was not comfortable with Him being HIV positive. Was i wrong, should i have served Him? i feeel like i violated a code of real slavery?
you are not a slave to him and he is not a Master to you until you choose him, he chooses you, and terms are discussed and agreed upon.

If his health issues are an issue to you, stay away. It is that simple.






sunshinemiss -> RE: Turned a Master down (7/18/2009 1:32:38 PM)

.




SoulPiercer -> RE: Turned a Master down (7/18/2009 6:13:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: daintydimples

There are many non-sexual ways of serving as well. Not everyone is a relationship has sex.

Just saying.



True .. however since the concern is possibly contracting HIV and having read the OPs profile, I'm guessing the relationship would have involved more than just picking up the dry cleaning or watering the house plants.




Firebirdseeking -> RE: Turned a Master down (7/18/2009 9:50:40 PM)

He didnt know he had a right to say No, isnt there something wrong with this picture? 




LafayetteLady -> RE: Turned a Master down (7/18/2009 10:46:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

When the CDC makes a list of ways to contract, it mentions only close, sexual contact, other than mother to child, needles and blood transfusions. I thank you for responding because i hate it when only half the story is given. many things we do, as deviants, can also aid in transmission. If the story is true, i commend the Man for being honest.

OP.. when someone gives you all the information to make an informed decision about your health and well being... they are actually encouraging you to think about your choices. The man in question cared enough about you to be honest. He gave you the options, dont question his determination. if he didnt want you to have that option to say yes or no, then he would not have told you.

Instead of questioning your own level of service, thank this man for his honesty. you can still serve him. not all service has to be sexual. even friendship can be a service.


If I'm not mistaken, the CDC mentions "exchange of bodily fluids" which encompasses a lot more than just sexual contact. Watersports, kissing, spitting all are high risk activities with someone with HIV. Hell, if the HIV positive person sneezes on you and you have an open wound, it goes in your mouth or eyes, there is risk.

The man's "honesty" is not admirable. He is also protecting himself. Someone who is HIV positve and gets intimately involved with an uninfected person can be charged with attempted murder. The guy is protecting himself. That doesn't discount his honesty as I'm sure many still don't tell. I just think it is worth mentioning that the prospective dominant probably had his own reasons for being "honest."

As for the OP, sorry, but I have issues with basic relationship type questions like this coming from adults. I understand that some may need validation for their decision, but I can't be the only one who questions the competancy of people who, well past the age of 18, still are unsure of basic relationship type skills. It makes no difference if this was to be a sexual based relationship or service only. Just because the OP identifies as a slave doesn't mean he wants to obtain a master who will undoubtedly become very sick and require a great deal of care in a very short period of time. It's one thing to meet someone, get involved and then have them become sick and need you to care for them. It's quite another thing to enter into something KNOWING that you will become a nursemaid to someone who is going to die. Granted I am looking for a loving relationship, but even in "service only" non-loving relationships, you develop feelings for the other person. That would be like setting yourself up to feel loss and most people don't want to do that.




DavanKael -> RE: Turned a Master down (7/19/2009 4:33:56 PM)

If youre uncomfortable having a relationship with someone who is HIV positive, don't. 
If you're considering having a relationship with someone who is HIV positive, educate yourself about the potentials, discuss with the person your concerns, etc.  It's not so catchy as the common cold; pretty tough to get, actually.  On the same token, once you've got it, life gets reeeeeally complicated, particularly when you start getting sick. 
Had a close friend who was HIV positive.  His wife married him knowing the risks.  Crazy wench even tried to get infected at one point.  Last I saw him (About 2 years ago), he was still livin', they were still together.  He's been infected for over 20 years. 
Now, if you're just asking if refusing to serve someone who is HIV positive and you have no attachment to makes you a bad slave, I'm going to have to award you the 'asshat of the day' award.  Congratulations. 
  Davan




CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Turned a Master down (7/20/2009 6:48:25 AM)

quote:

Non sexual contact? care to explain these ways?


Ok, HIV is not 'easy' to catch, but there is a -reason- why there are Universal Precautions practiced by people who are involved with blood or bodily fluids, especially where there is questionable or positive HIV status involved.

Examples of how this can play out in service where there is no sexual component:

I do temporary piercings, cutting, and branding... and any of these can allow for the transmission of HIV. If I were to ever do a cutting and have an open wound on my hands (even from something as presumably innocuous as a hangnail) and had a glove-puncture or (not that I ever would) was working bare-handed, I could pick up HIV.

If I -had- HIV and had an open wound, I could transmit it if there was blood-spatter that got onto mucous membranes (including lips, nasal cavities, or eyes).

If I were doing flogging or cropping and broke skin and spattered blood, HIV could be spread through the airborne spatter.

A cut from a broken dish, glass, or slipped knife could spread HIV under the right circumstances.

I would consider taking on a servant who was HIV positive, but what we did together, and the precautions we would have to take, would definitely be affected. I wouldn't -intentionally- break skin, and wouldn't use tools that could accidentally break skin in an uncontrolled manner -- and everyone with us would have to be OK with having this person serving in the household or xhe and I would have to separate our service dynamic from the main household. Precautions would have to be in place to deal with accidental exposure, and that's just common sense. It's a complex and challenging choice, and I can understand not wanting to take that on.

I also have to say that, while it should be expected that someone with a potentially communicable disease would share that information openly with those with whom xhe hopes to become involved, I've seen an awful lot of instances where it -hasn't- been shared, and the results have ranged from infuriating to devastating, so I think the submissive individual who started this thread can be thankful that the dominant-type person had the integrity to be up front about it. I've lost some beloved friends because one of their "close friends" or lovers chose to play hir HIV card close to the chest.

Dame Calla




CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Turned a Master down (7/20/2009 7:10:16 AM)

quote:

...who will undoubtedly become very sick and require a great deal of care in a very short period of time.


First let me say that I am, in no way, saying that a person doesn't have a right to choose who xhe becomes involved with, in a D/s relationship, M/s relationship, or any other kind of relationship. Absolutely, we have the right to decide who we will get involved with and why. In this post, though, I'm specifically addressing, the common idea that an HIV+ diagnosis means imminent illness and death.

The above statement isn't a given any more. Because of my involvement as a pastoral care provider in several non-traditional-relationship communities, and because of some of our family's connections, I've had a long history providing pastoral care to people with HIV and/or AIDS. These days, it is not uncommon for there to be individuals who are HIV+ at 20 years post-diagnosis and who are still healthy and showing few if any symptoms. In fact, for the newly diagnosed, life expectancy is now 24+ years. It used to be pretty rare, but now it is almost expected that, with a little care, a good treament plan started when CD4 levels are at the right point, and a bit of work to stay healthy and avoid behaviors that weaken the body,

Everyone is going to die, eventually, and most of us are going to get sick. Some of us may even get sick tomorrow, with warning or with none, so I consider this a bit of a spurious argument. I wonder how many people think about whether their companion is going to die soon if xhe has any one of a long list of potentially life-threatening but non-communicable diseases. If so, then maybe, any time we enter into -any- relationship with another person, if this is an issue, there should be some kind of 'insurance policy' that the person isn't going to get into an auto accident or have a heart attack, or develop MS, or Parkinsons' disease, or diabetes, or severe arthritis, or have a stroke, or develop cancer.

Dame Calla





sirsholly -> RE: Turned a Master down (7/20/2009 7:17:39 AM)

quote:

obtain a master who will undoubtedly become very sick and require a great deal of care 


Not quite on the subject, but a commitment to another who is in failing health has to be total. At some point, hopefully years down the road, the going will get tough...possibly much harder on the caregiver than on the patient.
A caregiver that cannot take the stress is going to do grave emotional harm by walking away.




daintydimples -> RE: Turned a Master down (7/20/2009 7:24:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoulPiercer



True .. however since the concern is possibly contracting HIV and having read the OPs profile, I'm guessing the relationship would have involved more than just picking up the dry cleaning or watering the house plants.


I had not read his profile.

I stand soooooooo corrected.

To the OP: there is another thread going on about self esteem issues.




LafayetteLady -> RE: Turned a Master down (7/20/2009 12:19:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

quote:

...who will undoubtedly become very sick and require a great deal of care in a very short period of time.


First let me say that I am, in no way, saying that a person doesn't have a right to choose who xhe becomes involved with, in a D/s relationship, M/s relationship, or any other kind of relationship. Absolutely, we have the right to decide who we will get involved with and why. In this post, though, I'm specifically addressing, the common idea that an HIV+ diagnosis means imminent illness and death.

The above statement isn't a given any more. Because of my involvement as a pastoral care provider in several non-traditional-relationship communities, and because of some of our family's connections, I've had a long history providing pastoral care to people with HIV and/or AIDS. These days, it is not uncommon for there to be individuals who are HIV+ at 20 years post-diagnosis and who are still healthy and showing few if any symptoms. In fact, for the newly diagnosed, life expectancy is now 24+ years. It used to be pretty rare, but now it is almost expected that, with a little care, a good treament plan started when CD4 levels are at the right point, and a bit of work to stay healthy and avoid behaviors that weaken the body,

Everyone is going to die, eventually, and most of us are going to get sick. Some of us may even get sick tomorrow, with warning or with none, so I consider this a bit of a spurious argument. I wonder how many people think about whether their companion is going to die soon if xhe has any one of a long list of potentially life-threatening but non-communicable diseases. If so, then maybe, any time we enter into -any- relationship with another person, if this is an issue, there should be some kind of 'insurance policy' that the person isn't going to get into an auto accident or have a heart attack, or develop MS, or Parkinsons' disease, or diabetes, or severe arthritis, or have a stroke, or develop cancer.

Dame Calla





Dame Calla,

You are quite correct in the fact that the life expectancy of someone with HIV is much longer than in the past. However, while they may remain relatively healthy for many years to come, they also may not for whatever reason. Yes, people die of unforeseen circumstances all the time, but they are unexpected. With HIV, this is not the case. I'm talking about actually KNOWING about an already existing serious health problem, not the possibility. Because all of us can/might become seriously ill at some point. But we didn't enter the relationship thinking that would happen. When it is an existing problem, the person who without that health issue DOES need to consider the possibilities. With the examples you gave, if they already existed, I would have made the same statement because if you are looking for a relationship with someone and you KNOW that there is a very real possibility of becoming their caregiver sooner than one might expect, one has to determine if they are going to be prepared to do that. It is fair to the person who has the health issue as well as the person who will be giving the care.

Realistically, we all must consider all kinds of things when we decide to begin a relationship with someone, and it doesn't necessarily involve just serious health issues. Does the person drink too much or do drugs? Do they have children from a previous relationship or will they be accepting of your children. Do they smoke? Are they a die hard vegan compared to your being a die hard meat eater? Do you have opposing religious views? All of these things are typically much easily considered during that "getting to know you" phase, but still require consideration for a successful relationship. The HIV or other sickness issues are really no different, although, depending on the people involved, require a bit more consideration as to whether or not it is something that you can deal with on an on-going basis.




IronBear -> RE: Turned a Master down (7/20/2009 12:29:57 PM)

This is one treason why when meeting a prospect I am quite open about having T2 Diabetes. Complications are these days more likely to shorten my life especially if I am not careful. One has to play by the rules of polite society and be truthful about such things so she is coming to me with her eyes open and full knowledge of what she is getting in my book. To do else wise would be grossly dishonourable. 




crouchingtigress -> RE: Turned a Master down (7/20/2009 7:36:20 PM)

I think you should have the facts of HIV before you make your decisions:

You can only get HIV from semen, cum, blood, breast milk, not saliva.

This means that with barriers you can still have a normal sex life with a pos person IF this is what you want to do.

The IF is the big question....guess who decides? YOU DO!

If a dom you like wants to tie you up and spank you who has HIV there is no risk, if he wants to stick needles in you more risk, unprotected sex? the Highest risk.

You decide what you want for your life.

HIV is simply a factor of todays sexual spectrum, you need to be aware of all STDs and act accordingly, being a slave does not change that.





Racquelle -> RE: Turned a Master down (7/20/2009 7:49:40 PM)

Here is what the CDC actually says:

Research has revealed a great deal of valuable medical, scientific, and public health information about the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) and acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS). The ways in which HIV can be transmitted have been clearly identified. Unfortunately, false information or statements that are not supported by scientific findings continue to be shared widely through the Internet or popular press. Therefore, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has prepared this fact sheet to correct a few misperceptions about HIV. How HIV is Transmitted HIV is spread by sexual contact with an infected person, by sharing needles and/or syringes (primarily for drug injection) with someone who is infected, or, less commonly (and now very rarely in countries where blood is screened for HIV antibodies), through transfusions of infected blood or blood clotting factors. Babies born to HIV-infected women may become infected before or during birth or through breast-feeding after birth. In the health care setting, workers have been infected with HIV after being stuck with needles containing HIV-infected blood or, less frequently, after infected blood gets into a worker’s open cut or a mucous membrane (for example, the eyes or inside of the nose). There has been only one instance of patients being infected by a health care worker in the United States; this involved HIV transmission from one infected dentist to six patients. Investigations have been completed involving more than 22,000 patients of 63 HIV-infected physicians, surgeons, and dentists, and no other cases of this type of transmission have been identified in the United States. Some people fear that HIV might be transmitted in other ways; however, no scientific evidence to support any of these fears has been found. If HIV were being transmitted through other routes (such as through air, water, or insects), the pattern of reported AIDS cases would be much different from what has been observed. For example, if mosquitoes could transmit HIV infection, many more young children and preadolescents would have been diagnosed with AIDS. All reported cases suggesting new or potentially unknown routes of transmission are thoroughly investigated by state and local health departments with the assistance, guidance, and laboratory support from CDC. No additional routes of transmission have been recorded, despite a national sentinel system designed to detect just such an occurrence.
HIV in the Environment Scientists and medical authorities agree that HIV does not survive well in the environment, making the possibility of environmental transmission remote. HIV is found in varying concentrations or amounts in blood, semen, vaginal fluid, breast milk, saliva, and tears. (See page 3, Saliva, Tears, and Sweat.) To obtain data on the survival of HIV, laboratory studies have required the use of artificially high concentrations of laboratory-grown virus. Although these unnatural concentrations of HIV can be kept alive for days or even weeks under precisely controlled and limited laboratory conditions, CDC studies have shown that drying of even these high concentrations of HIV reduces the amount of infectious virus by 90 to 99 percent within several hours. Since the HIV concentrations used in laboratory studies are much higher than those actually found in blood or other specimens, drying of HIV-infected human blood or other body fluids reduces the theoretical risk of environmental transmission to that which has been observed--essentially zero. Incorrect interpretation of conclusions drawn from laboratory studies have unnecessarily alarmed some people. Results from laboratory studies should not be used to assess specific personal risk of infection because (1) the amount of virus studied is not found in human specimens or elsewhere in nature, and (2) no one has been identified as infected with HIV due to contact with an environmental surface. Additionally, HIV is unable to reproduce outside its living host (unlike many bacteria or fungi, which may do so under suitable conditions), except under laboratory conditions, therefore, it does not spread or maintain infectiousness outside its host...
CDC knows of no instances of HIV transmission through tattooing or body piercing, although hepatitis B virus has been transmitted during some of these practices. One case of HIV transmission from acupuncture has been documented. Body piercing (other than ear piercing) is relatively new in the United States, and the medical complications for body piercing appear to be greater than for tattoos. Healing of piercings generally will take weeks, and sometimes even months, and the pierced tissue could conceivably be abraded (torn or cut) or inflamed even after healing. Therefore, a theoretical HIV transmission risk does exist if the unhealed or abraded tissues come into contact with an infected person’s blood or other infectious body fluid. Additionally, HIV could be transmitted if instruments contaminated with blood are not sterilized or disinfected between clients. Kissing Casual contact through closed-mouth or "social" kissing is not a risk for transmission of HIV. Because of the potential for contact with blood during "French" or open-mouth kissing, CDC recommends against engaging in this activity with a person known to be infected. However, the risk of acquiring HIV during open-mouth kissing is believed to be very low. CDC has investigated only one case of HIV infection that may be attributed to contact with blood during open-mouth kissing. Biting In 1997, CDC published findings from a state health department investigation of an incident that suggested blood-to-blood transmission of HIV by a human bite. There have been other reports in the medical literature in which HIV appeared to have been transmitted by a bite. Severe trauma with extensive tissue tearing and damage and presence of blood were reported in each of these instances. Biting is not a common way of transmitting HIV. In fact, there are numerous reports of bites that did not result in HIV infection. Saliva, Tears, and Sweat HIV has been found in saliva and tears in very low quantities from some AIDS patients. It is important to understand that finding a small amount of HIV in a body fluid does not necessarily mean that HIV can be transmitted by that body fluid. HIV has not been recovered from the sweat of HIV-infected persons. Contact with saliva, tears, or sweat has never been shown to result in transmission of HIV.
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/transmission.htm





crouchingtigress -> RE: Turned a Master down (7/20/2009 8:08:48 PM)

Hi Raquelle, can you explain what you feel you wanted me to understand that I may have missed?




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