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Vanilla pretending? - 7/19/2009 5:50:58 AM   
orangeskye


Posts: 18
Joined: 9/6/2006
Status: offline 		So, I'm in a pretty particular situation at the moment, and I don't really have anyone else to bother about it... I usually don't post here often, but I've been lurking for ages and ages.. and I know you guys can be pretty bloodthirsty.. please be nice :(

I've been very close friends with a guy from work/college for quite a few years (3-4) and he's always been very shy/quiet/reserved, he's a really great guy.. just so damn quiet >< i am... not quiet... and i know that entertains him. 
a few times we've flirted back and forth and he mentioned after some poking that he thought i must be a Domme, because of my natural go-get-'em! attitude, i laughed and said he couldn't be more wrong.. we dropped the topic...
he asked me out again, and i told him, flat out, that i was submissive, i need a Dominant man, and he just.. *isn't*.. we dropped the topic
after a recent whirlwind relationship that ended recently, my friend decides to try again, tells me that we're *made* for each other, and i turn him down.... again...
He's decided (after one very graphic, heavy caning) BDSM video that he's a DOM! and he can be it for me! and whoo! O.o
this is where it gets weird.. follow me.. 
he's started punching me, friendly punches, but hard, most poeple would either tell him to stop, or i don't know.. punch back? but pain makes me giggle... so i giggle, and move on.. i don't ask him to stop, 'cuz friends punch each other, and i don't mind it
he tells me he "wants to hurt me" he "likes the reaction" and he "wants to see me suffer more" O.o things i'm assuming he heard in a porn video
yesterday, he's sleeping on the couch, and i'm annoying him, throwing things at him to wake him up, and he tells me, this is a direct quote "if you wake me up again, i'm going to use my belt and.. do things to you" O.o i said .. "you will not.. we have NOT discussed such fun.. " we dropped it.. later when i did wake up up again, threatened me again, i told him i wasn't in the mood and he backed off.. lol..
anyway.. thats all pre story.. the question here is this..

do you think it's genuinely possible that he's realized his calling and genuienly could be a sadist (or at least like giving pain) and just didn't know it until i brought it up? or do you think that (realisticly) he's just saying things that he thinks i want to hear to get in my pants...
it's a bit extreme for a vanilla though, to want to pretend to enjoy painplay stuffs... isn't it?
the other question is.. if he is genuine, does anyone have suggestions for what to do now, i'm not particularly submissive to him, in fact, i'm pretty bossy toward him, and he does everything i say to a t.. not that i TRY to Dominate  him.. but that he just.. needs so much direction in every day life ><
is it worth "teaching him" how to be a Dom? could you respect someone who you had to teach?

and i realize thats quite a long read, sorry >< i didn't realize it would be so much

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RE: Vanilla pretending? - 7/19/2009 6:01:54 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Everybody had a first time. Many of us had an eye opening experience that allowed us to realize what we do or don't want. Sounds like he has.

Dominant? I don't know, sadistic to some degree it sounds like. You need to sit down with him, in a coffee shop preferably, and explain the rules. Explain that until you decide whether or not you want to play with him, if he does something against your will it is assault. If he forces you to have sex, it is still rape. And you will prosecute.

And give him names of books he can learn from, websites like this he can learn from. Because learning from porn is going to get him a bad reputation if not prison time. Make it clear to him that just as he can happily have sex with someone who wants to have sex with him, if he has it with someone who doesn't he's a rapist, and the same applies here.

In the meantime, if he wants to date you and see if the feelings in the relationship change, then try it. He may be the perfect dominant for someone who likes quiet guys, but only you get to decide if he's the perfect one for you. He cannot change your relationship without your agreement, is what it comes down to.

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RE: Vanilla pretending? - 7/19/2009 6:04:13 AM   
xiam


Posts: 148
Joined: 7/1/2007
Status: offline 		BDSM aside, are you even interested in the man?  It sounds like you have him pretty firmly in "friend" category.  

(in reply to orangeskye)
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RE: Vanilla pretending? - 7/19/2009 6:07:08 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Not to mention, given his apparent ignorance that being sadistic does NOT, by default, make him dominant. Let alone, your dominant.

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Vanilla pretending? - 7/19/2009 6:35:16 AM   
orangeskye


Posts: 18
Joined: 9/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xiam

BDSM aside, are you even interested in the man?  It sounds like you have him pretty firmly in "friend" category.  


he's a very nice guy.. ordianarily, yeah, i'd be almost interested in him..
it's like.. when he's being himself, he's cool, when he's pretending to be something else though, it's awkward.

other wise, i think that DesFIP, and LaTigresse are probably right, i should maybe sit down with him and go over some of the "rules" let him know how things are, and that just because he thinks i want a Dominant doesn't mean i want HIM as my Dominant, or even help him figure out if he IS Dominant.. it's just way more effort than i want to put into it, if he's faking it for the wrong reasons, you know?


(in reply to xiam)
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RE: Vanilla pretending? - 7/19/2009 6:43:43 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I've been thinking more about this thread and putting in context with a few other things, one being SimplyMichael's post about demonizing bad dominants. Add to that, the many discussions I have had with guys, about guys, and about guys and their relationships with women. I spend most of my days around guys, I always have.

Depending upon age and hormone level, most guys have one primary goal, a happy dick. A happy dick usually involves a lot of close contact with pussy. Most guys, especially young guys, will do an awful lot to have their dicks maintain as much close contact with pussy as possible.

Add to that, guys just simply do not think like women. A lot of guys totally do not understand how women think.

If you take a young flirty woman/girl, that hints around she likes rough sex, an insecure yet very horny young man that REALLY wants to get his dick in young flirty girl, add in what seems to be a lot of vague and indirect communication......and, as others have alluded to, you might have a potential for disaster.

We don't know the two people involved, where their boundaries are, both individually and with one another. But I really could see a very bad scenario come of all of this. One that just should not happen, for either of them. Two lives have the potential to be badly damaged. A young woman that, while she likes it rough, doesn't deserve to be roughed up and raped.....potentially. A young man that, while he THINKS he knows what she wants, is probably totally clueless, doesn't deserve to be turned into a criminal for doing what he THINKS she wants......just to get what he wants.

To the OP, if you really are good friends with this guy, take the time to talk to him, REALLY communicate and give him some tools to understand the full scope of what you are alluding to. Don't hint around at it because you may be sending him totally inaccurate signals. It may not be a comfortable or fun conversation, but it just might save a friendship and even possibly prevent something neither one of you want to happen.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 7/19/2009 6:44:38 AM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to LaTigresse)
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RE: Vanilla pretending? - 7/19/2009 7:39:42 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		OP, you're playing with fire.  He may not understand the difference between Domming and hitting.

I'd take him to some munches and play parties.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: Vanilla pretending? - 7/19/2009 8:28:26 AM   
antipode


Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

it's just way more effort than i want to put into it, if he's faking it for the wrong reasons, you know?


I don't think he is faking anything, actually.. But he is likely more of a sadist than a dom, although the two can be combined. You're leading him on, drawing him out, though, and you might want to think about why you do that. That's not submissive behaviour, drawing a guy out and seeing how far you can go.

So perhaps you should sit down together, and talk about what makes each of you tick. This is not so much about everyone's pre-defined role in life, which is where you are at, but about desires, needs, wants, and about having fun. You two seem pretty close, and there is no good reason why you should not exploit that and figure out, together, what works for each of you. Again, without the definitions, necessarily. Just don't think of yourself as a sub, I am not seeing that, with your challenging behaviour.

(in reply to orangeskye)
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RE: Vanilla pretending? - 7/19/2009 8:40:12 AM   
slavekal


Posts: 1486
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		It is absolutely possible.  This is exactly what happened with a lady I knew.  I told the whole story in my book, but the short version is that I tried to push this woman away by being honest about what kind of man I am.  After experimenting a bit, she found that this lifestyle is what she has been seeking her whole life.  After we parted, she sent me a letter telling me all about her new adventures and how she would never go back to vanilla again.

_____________________________

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(in reply to orangeskye)
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RE: Vanilla pretending? - 7/19/2009 8:48:54 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

If you take a young flirty woman/girl, that hints around she likes rough sex, an insecure yet very horny young man that REALLY wants to get his dick in young flirty girl, add in what seems to be a lot of vague and indirect communication......and, as others have alluded to, you might have a potential for disaster.

We don't know the two people involved, where their boundaries are, both individually and with one another. But I really could see a very bad scenario come of all of this. One that just should not happen, for either of them. Two lives have the potential to be badly damaged. A young woman that, while she likes it rough, doesn't deserve to be roughed up and raped.....potentially. A young man that, while he THINKS he knows what she wants, is probably totally clueless, doesn't deserve to be turned into a criminal for doing what he THINKS she wants......just to get what he wants.

To the OP, if you really are good friends with this guy, take the time to talk to him, REALLY communicate and give him some tools to understand the full scope of what you are alluding to. Don't hint around at it because you may be sending him totally inaccurate signals. It may not be a comfortable or fun conversation, but it just might save a friendship and even possibly prevent something neither one of you want to happen.


I SO very much agree with this advice.

Add in that the OP CLEARLY has trouble communicating and or relating clearly with someone.  I cringed when I read the bit about
quote:

yesterday, he's sleeping on the couch, and i'm annoying him, throwing things at him to wake him up,
AND
quote:

"you will not.. we have NOT discussed such fun.. "


She is being a bit passive aggressive there and  he is falling for the bait which is why he is talking about spanking her and THEN she goes and calls him doing that to her "fun"

orangeskye, as the saying goes, You are Flirting With Disaster!

ASAP, sit down with the guy and have an adult conversation, no joking around, no flirting, no hinting, teasing, etc.   Just CLEAR and OPEN communication about what you want, what you are willing to experiment with, what you are willing to teach him AND whatever groundrules you need to set.  His head is full of fantasies and while they are hot, they are not the place to begin but he doesn't know that and you need to help him understand that.

Best of luck!

(in reply to LaTigresse)
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RE: Vanilla pretending? - 7/19/2009 8:59:25 AM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		He is new and you should proceed as if he were a "new" Dom, he needs to learn. Get some good books on BDSM and on how to Top, find some munches to go to so he can find a mentor. If not he may end up hurting you badly. Also if you go this route make sure you negotiate everything so that he doesn't think being the Dominant is a free license to do whatever it is he may think he wants to do.

Good luck,
~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






(in reply to orangeskye)
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RE: Vanilla pretending? - 7/19/2009 9:51:03 AM   
orangeskye


Posts: 18
Joined: 9/6/2006
Status: offline 		Michael, it's interesting that you say i have trouble communicating, (i absolutely do, i stumble over words in serious conversations 9 out of 10 times) but i wasn't aware that i had conveyed that in my OP, i didn't realize i was giving mixed signals.. well.. i sorta realized it.. but it's *really* hard not to ><

the general consensus seems to be, sit down and talk to him, and help him figure things out, before doing anything else. shouldn't be too hard :|

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
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RE: Vanilla pretending? - 7/19/2009 10:10:24 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Do it in public where he can't possibly think you're just pretending and really want him to spank you and take you in the ass. Doing it near a bed is a bad idea. In a Starbucks this is obviously a serious conversation.

As far as mornings go, let him oversleep and get in trouble. If he's supposed to drive you, then get up early enough to take public transportation and let him know that his inability to do what he promised has made you lose respect for him.

If you need him out of there before you leave, don't let him sleep over next time. When you want to go to bed, show him to the door. Make it clear that since you can't trust him to do what he said, he has lost the privelege of crashing on your couch. If he's drunk or buzzed, call him a cab and let him deal with not having his car the next day.

Dominants take responsibility for themselves. If he wants you to see him as dominant, he needs to step up to the plate.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: Vanilla pretending? - 7/19/2009 10:17:08 AM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		First of all, I don't know of friends who punch each other. Ok, so I know my son and his guy friends do do that, but it's a game to see who can take the hardest punch, and they are teenage boys. So two things come to mind when you say this. First of all, you and he would have a very platonic relationship, and two, you want to act like a teenage boy. I don't say that be insulting to you at all, it's just that I don't find it to be adult behavior that occurs between friends.

You keep saying that you aren't sure that you like him "that way," "you don't want to teach him," etc. Sounds to me more like you aren't really sure how you feel about him at all. It can be very difficult and scary to move someone from the "friend" category to the "intimate relationship" category. The worries about losing your friend being a pretty big thing. I'm not sure if you are looking for someone you can just have D/s interaction with or someone that you can have a relationship with that encompasses D/s. If all you are looking for is a casual play partner, you definately don't want it with this guy. He has already expressed romantic interest in you and making him a play partner, although it will possibly give him that "happy dick" feeling LaTigresse talks about, he will end up hurt in the end because you aren't looking for romance, too. On the other hand if you want a romantic relationship, look at him the way you would anyone you might want to have a relationship with. First determine which is more important, his friendship or a relationship with him, because if the relationship doesn't work out, there's a good chance that you can't go back to being friends.

If you think you may want the romantic relationship, you take it slow and get to know each other "that way." Talk about the whole D/s thing and how it works. As other have suggested, have him read some stuff and learn a bit more about D/s than he got from watching one porn movie. There is a lot more to a relationship than the D/s aspect. Also like others have said, you seem to exhibit more dominant behavior than submissive. Now many people who are submissive are only submissive to the "one" and in the rest of their world, they are anything but submissive. On the other hand, you are young and maybe still finding your way and it could be that you are a switch or a dominant and have yet to figure it out. All of the options are ok.

Mainly, you need to figure out how you really feel about this guy. Can he be more than a friend or not? Depending on your answer there, the rest will naturally follow.


(in reply to orangeskye)
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RE: Vanilla pretending? - 7/19/2009 8:20:54 PM   
Joseff


Posts: 505
Joined: 6/2/2007
Status: offline 		From what I'm seeing, the thing everyone says you should do, I think you had better do.  Have that talk with him. Most likely he is more confused than you, he doesn't know if he's a Sadist, or dominant, or anything else. You didn't actually mention ages, but I'm guessing early to mid 20's? There are exceptions, but for the most part, men don't really grow up untill about 30.  You've got a guy who's confused, horny, and  carrying some bad assumptions, a dangerous combination. even if you don't want to invest the time to teach him, you owe it to him to set him straight, whether the two of you  form a relationship or not. I know it wasn't intentional, but you are partly responsible for the misconceptions he has. Set him down in the coffee shop or whatever,  explain it all to him, and don't even consider starting a relationship with him until you are sure that he understands.

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RE: Vanilla pretending? - 7/19/2009 8:38:49 PM   
KneelforAnne


Posts: 1011
Joined: 6/14/2006
Status: offline
Ok... I agree with everything that has been stated here. Talk to him.

Right now, you like the attention--who wouldn't? You're on your own now and having someone flirt and want you is a great ego boost. Unfortunately, you have him and you don't want him (or so it seems)...you're just keeping him around for shits and giggles.

It's not fair to play with him, and honestly somewhere down the line -- if this continues-- you're going to have to pay the price for teasing him.





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RE: Vanilla pretending? - 7/19/2009 8:49:49 PM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: orangeskye

. " we dropped it.. later when i did wake up up again, threatened me again, i told him i wasn't in the mood and he backed off.. lol..
anyway.. thats all pre story.. the question here is this..

do you think it's genuinely possible that he's realized his calling and genuienly could be a sadist (or at least like giving pain) and just didn't know it until i brought it up? or do you think that (realisticly) he's just saying things that he thinks i want to hear to get in my pants...
it's a bit extreme for a vanilla though, to want to pretend to enjoy painplay stuffs... isn't it?
the other question is.. if he is genuine, does anyone have suggestions for what to do now, i'm not particularly submissive to him, in fact, i'm pretty bossy toward him, and he does everything i say to a t.. not that i TRY to Dominate  him.. but that he just.. needs so much direction in every day life ><
is it worth "teaching him" how to be a Dom? could you respect someone who you had to teach?

and i realize thats quite a long read, sorry >< i didn't realize it would be so much




All Bark and NO bite.  I love to see the look on your face were you to say that to me.  After I grabbed you by the hair forcing you to your knees and bitch slapping you.  Not a threat a promise.  Smirk.  anywho the guy sounds like a complete pussy.

MoTown BadOne


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RE: Vanilla pretending? - 7/19/2009 10:00:10 PM   
Danemora


Posts: 752
Joined: 10/9/2006
Status: offline 		My gut reaction from reading what you had to say was that this guy is into you, but you told him that you are submissive and needed a dominant man in your life.  Then coincidentally he magically has this epiphany about being dominant afterwards?  I guess I got the feeling that he wanted to be with you so much so that he would adapt himself to what you stated that you needed (for him) to be. 

If he is really awakening to his true nature, thats one thing.  You just dont sound like you are into him the same way he apparently is into you 

(in reply to orangeskye)
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RE: Vanilla pretending? - 7/20/2009 12:52:09 AM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline 		There's no reason to explore this with him some more, even more so considering he's been thinking about. In terms of some of the judgements people are tossing out and around, Pfffftt... who the hell cares.

If you explore this with him, there you will find the answer to the questions you seek. Not on this message board. :-)

(in reply to orangeskye)
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RE: Vanilla pretending? - 7/20/2009 5:19:38 AM   
CaringandReal


Posts: 1397
Joined: 2/15/2008
Status: offline 		I've seen and experienced this in real life a number of times. It's always been false, just a vanilla guy trying to get some pussy and underestimating the woman he's trying to boink. The men I've experienced this from said and did almost exactly the same things as this fellow is doing and saying. It didn't attract me more to them, it made me feel pretty enbarrassed for their playacting, actually, and ruined any potential for a relationship we might have had when they were just being themselves. While what people are saying is true, sometimes a vanilla person does discover they are kinky after contact with a bdsm person, they never, in my experience at least, do it this particular way, saying and doing the things this guy is saying and doing. Turning magically from sub to dom in a matter of days? Yep, I've seen that too. It's amazing what some men will do if they want ass bad enough.

I think you should tell him very firmly to stop punching you or you won't be friends with him anymore. I know you feel in control of him, but I think you're playing with a hand grenade. If you don't give him a clear unambiguous message that his behavior makes you uncomfortable and isn't wanted, instead of stopping he may think it's just not enough and escalate. He seems pretty clueless and sometimes that type confuses rape with dominance. If you want to be raped, fine, tease away, let him think that the road he's on just might lead to success. If you don't want things to reach that point, I really think you need to hold in the giggles for a few minutes and tell him to seriously cool it.

Try to see it from his perspective if you can. You're a hot little cocktease who has most frustratingly dumped him into the "platonic buddy" category and won't put out but he thinks he's suddenly found the magic key for spreading your legs. And he's not perceptive or subtle enough to read your body language and responses and see that you aren't comfortable with this or that you are are mixed about him and he's making things progressively worse. A decent dominant could "read" all of this from the way you act and talk, and, if he really wanted you, would adjust what he was doing accordingly. A good dominant is something of a hunter, in that regard. He or she observes his prey and then uses the techniques mostly likely to ensnare it. This guy, in comparison, is the proverbial bull in the china shop, and most submissives don't find that type very sexy or fulfilling to be around.

You say you already control him. I suggest you start controlling your access to him. Tell him that you really don't like his "new" personality, that you just don't feel he's the fun interesting fellow you used to know, and don't hang out with him as much at work or outside it. If or when he gets a clue and starts acting like his normal self, ease up, if you still like him and want to be around him.

As a last resort you certainly have enough willpower to say loudly, TOM (DICK, HARRY), QUIT HITTING ME, YOU'RE HURTING ME, in public, loud enough for coworkers to hear. If nobody's around when he punches, do you have bruises from the punching? Showing those to a co-worker or manager in his presence should also help stop this if it reaches the point of harassment. A lot of workpaces have very stringet rules against such things.

I realize that at this point this is a fairly light thing, but I do think it has the potential to go bad, quickly.

And I could also be completely wrong, maybe this guy has discovered his true vocation, and is just relatively clueless at this point about how to express it. If you think there is chance that this could be the case, then perhaps you should give him a non-fiction book on bdsm/dominance that you liked or send him to a website where there's solid information, someplace where there's info. on how to be a good dominant.

(in reply to DesFIP)
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