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RE: Advice Needed for When Your Aging Parent(s) Are Stu... - 7/20/2009 2:08:08 PM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

I am going through something similiar right now. I have a father who is 78 and bedridden from a stroke, with my 77 year old mother taking care of him. Mom is showing signs of the beginnings of dementia. She is in total denial. She thinks my father will jump up out of bed one day and go back to work (he never will), she thinks they will sell their house and move to North Carolina so that they can live like a King and Queen on all the money they will have. I have tried to talk to her about selling the house and moving into an assisted living or adult condo, she refuses because she really believes that dad will recover and go back to working full time.

She can't get used to living on just social security, all their savings is gone, spent on illnesses and medications. The house is all that they have and its falling down around them because she refuses to allow me to take things over because as she says "she is not that old". There is nothing that I can do until her dementia gets a bit worse then I will have to take legal action, she would never willingly give me power of attorney.


Please, talk to the doctor about getting home care if they qualify. It will take some of the emotional burden off of you. If she is approved for home care be there for the visits and ask the nurse to share information with you. Your situation is, sadly, not unique to home health professionals and you will be met with a lot of understanding.


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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Advice Needed for When Your Aging Parent(s) Are Stu... - 7/20/2009 7:55:35 PM   
bamabbwsub


Posts: 566
Joined: 5/28/2007
Status: offline 		Hi everyone, and thank you all for your kind replies and excellent advice.

My sister called my mom's doctor today and got an appointment for her for tomorrow. I'm hoping to learn more details about what happened after she has seen the doctor, especially if they confirm that it was a stroke or a mini-stroke. I realize that her doctor probably can't give us any details due to HiPPA, but I'm hoping that my mom will "come clean" with us about the state of her health.

quote:

What comes first is a durable power of attorney and the medical directives. They are essential.


As for the legal documents that you all are wisely recommending -- my mother does have a will, but no living will, and no POA. I think that she doesn't want to appoint one of us (my sister or me) as the POA, since that might show favoritism...so she just doesn't have one. The only thing I know about her wishes if she is in the hospital, is that she doesn't want to be resuscitated. The only reason I learned that was because we talked about it briefly when my dad was in the hospital dying of cancer, and he had a DNR order.

quote:

I just told him he was being terribly unfair to me by leaving these decisions to me and leaving me to dwell for the rest of my life as to if i did the right thing.


I have to say, I think one of the best ways to get to my mother is through guilt, even though she isn't Catholic. She absolutely hates to be a burden to anyone or cause anyone to go out of their way for her, so I may take some of the advice you all gave and go that route. I especially liked the one about burying her in the back yard with the dog. ROFL!!

quote:

perhaps suggest a Life Alert system in case she falls or needs other assistance while living alone.


beth, thank you! That is an excellent idea! That would make my sister and me feel much better, knowing that she could call for help if needed, but she would get to retain her independence for a while longer.

Thank you all again for your advice -- it was very helpful. Hopefully, my mother will live many, many, many more years. In some ways, it would be easier for her to go quickly, and I think she would prefer that to losing her independence and having to rely on someone take care of her, even though it is a burden that both my sister and I would happily undertake for her. Unfortunately, life doesn't always work out the way we'd like, so you have to plan for other situations, as unpleasant as they may be.

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(in reply to sirsholly)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Advice Needed for When Your Aging Parent(s) Are Stu... - 7/20/2009 8:47:29 PM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		I have tried holly and I was told that unless we could pay a nurse $20/hour to come to the home we were out of luck. Because my parents own a home, own a car and get social security they weren't eligible for medicaid. My mother refuses to let me pay anyone and she says she does not trust anyone to come into her home. Paranoia seems to be her constant companion these days.

Of course if my parents were willing to sign over their home and all their assets they they could go to a state home, which I will not let happen. My father worked to damn hard for what they have to let the state take it from them.

So I am caught between a rock and a hard place. I am going to speak with an elder care lawyer and see what can be done.

~Lashra

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Advice Needed for When Your Aging Parent(s) Are Stu... - 7/20/2009 9:38:27 PM   
maybemaybenot


Posts: 2817
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline 		I would suggest you go down to your local Council on Aging and inquire about Elders at Risk. There are many resources available to you and to Mom and they can put you in the right direction. Local Elder services generally has social workers who can assist you in beginning a conversation with your Mom.

I would also suggest you have a frank heart to heart with her. Explain that Durable power of Attorney < for healthcarepurposes> and  Health Care Proxies are ONLY in the event that she is unable to make decisions for herself. You are not trying to " take over " but be able to carry out her wishes, should she become unable. Re assure her that all decisions are hers to make, and that a health care proxy is simply appointing someone to carry out her  wishes, not make changes to her wishes. Use her desire not to be recusitated as an example. tell her that unless she signs an advanced directive or appoints some one as Health Care Proxy, the MDs are legally bound to recusitate her, including any means of lifesupport they deem needed and that it will be difficult for you and your family to undo things should she fall into that situation.

Here is a link to the Forms for Alabama, show it to her, have her read it. Usually once the elderly see it and realize that it is simply saying what the MDs can and cannot do, they are fine with it. It's just a foriegn concept to them.

http://www.finance.cch.com/tools/downloads/alabamaadvdirective.pdf

                            mbmbn

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Advice Needed for When Your Aging Parent(s) Are Stu... - 7/21/2009 1:28:37 AM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		The role reversal is a bitch. You will likely need meds yourself if you become her primary caretaker and be prepared for your health, relationships and career to suffer. If being stuffed and mounted is the plan go with a real taxidermist and not a Botox party.

PS- Using gallows humor here, not trying to offend. I do sympathize with your plight and don't envy anyone dealing with such situations.

< Message edited by Vendaval -- 7/21/2009 1:32:10 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Advice Needed for When Your Aging Parent(s) Are Stu... - 7/21/2009 1:48:35 AM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

I have tried holly and I was told that unless we could pay a nurse $20/hour to come to the home we were out of luck. Because my parents own a home, own a car and get social security they weren't eligible for medicaid. My mother refuses to let me pay anyone and she says she does not trust anyone to come into her home. Paranoia seems to be her constant companion these days.

Of course if my parents were willing to sign over their home and all their assets they they could go to a state home, which I will not let happen. My father worked to damn hard for what they have to let the state take it from them.

So I am caught between a rock and a hard place. I am going to speak with an elder care lawyer and see what can be done.

~Lashra
Lashra, you also need to ask their doctor for a referral to a social worker. Their may be avenues available to help you that a lawyer is not aware of. Social Services can help more than you know. Home health care is not available simply because a person is elderly, but your mother is presenting with signs of dementia and needs a diagnosis. A visiting psych nurse can asst the Dr with a diagnosis and monitor the effect of medications, paid for by her insurance.

I urge you to stress to everyone that your mom is the sole caregiver for an elderly stroke victim. This may help to obtain home health, as her freedom is limited.

Now...you dad did work hard and having the state take their home, car and social security is not easy. But he needs to be cared for and your mother needs to be released from the burden that will soon be impossible for her to fulfill. Your decisions are difficult and you cannot do this alone. Please contact Social Services.

< Message edited by sirsholly -- 7/21/2009 1:49:57 AM >

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RE: Advice Needed for When Your Aging Parent(s) Are Stu... - 7/21/2009 2:10:03 AM   
KMsAngel


Posts: 17415
Joined: 4/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

Please, talk to the doctor about getting home care if they qualify. It will take some of the emotional burden off of you. If she is approved for home care be there for the visits and ask the nurse to share information with you. Your situation is, sadly, not unique to home health professionals and you will be met with a lot of understanding.


this is exactly what i do for a living. if you get a good one case manager(like me), this person will make sure to involve you as the family, and yet ensure your parents get what they need as well as it's within their power to do so.

my primary clients are 6 extremely high level clients. 3 of them are non dementia, 3 of them are dementia of various degrees. I take care of organising workers for housekeeping, personal care (showers, etc), meal prep, medication prompting and social support. I do my utmost to make sure they have the most holistic care program I can possibly serve them within their means and the cost guidelines i'm given. i've been known to take them to hairdressers (and treasure the brightest smile i've seen from her), as well as cop the verbal abuse of someone who needed his toenails trimmed (not by me thank god) and everything in between.

we ALWAYS ask and encourage clients about PoA's and advance directives. Some will do it, some will fight it to their dying day. Either way, my job is to make their last years dignified.

unfortunately, i don't think that the american government provides as well as the aussie govm't does to qualifying clients. if they did, i'd probably hie myself back sooner rather than later.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Advice Needed for When Your Aging Parent(s) Are Stu... - 7/21/2009 2:20:29 AM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline
quote:

unfortunately, i don't think that the american government provides as well as the aussie govm't does to qualifying clients. if they did, i'd probably hie myself back sooner rather than later.
Help is out there, Lashra, i swear to God it is, but you are going to have to find it either on your own (nearly impossible, as you do not have the training or the resourses) or get the help of one like AngelEyes.

I have always said our countries greated sources of untapped knowledge are sitting in nursing homes. We may think the issues we are facing are unique to us/our generation, but that is not the case. Whatever we are doing, they have been there, done that, and lived to have no one ask them about it. To anyone that can, contact a local nursing home, tell them you have a few extra hours and would like to spend it talking to one or more of the patients. It is a priceless gift.

::falls off soapbox::::


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RE: Advice Needed for When Your Aging Parent(s) Are Stu... - 7/21/2009 2:30:13 AM   
KMsAngel


Posts: 17415
Joined: 4/13/2007
Status: offline 		http://www.alzheimers.org.au/content.cfm?topicid=356

a resource i use a LOT of - i frequently print off their brochures and send them to concerned family members, also, i've got two of my dementia clients sitting with one of their workers doing the Personal Life History book. Short term memory may be shot, but long term memory usually only needs minor prompting. i've learnt some WONDERFUL stories, including a poignant love story that made me cry. These are great presents to children, grandchildren and so on.

some of this info is australian specific, but can get you looking at relevant resources in your own community. search out keywords and do a google for your local area.

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RE: Advice Needed for When Your Aging Parent(s) Are Stu... - 7/21/2009 4:17:42 AM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:


As for the legal documents that you all are wisely recommending -- my mother does have a will, but no living will, and no POA. I think that she doesn't want to appoint one of us (my sister or me) as the POA, since that might show favoritism...so she just doesn't have one. The only thing I know about her wishes if she is in the hospital, is that she doesn't want to be resuscitated. The only reason I learned that was because we talked about it briefly when my dad was in the hospital dying of cancer, and he had a DNR order.


Hi bama,
I would like to suggest that you and your sister talk about it and come up with who would be best at that.  In my family, my sister is a nurse.  She would be the best one to do any kind of discussion with a doctor. In her absence, it's me because I worked in hospitals and have a general understanding of things.  If it were about POAs, paying bills, etc.  It would go to my other sister because she lives down the street and it would be much less burden for her.  You can present these things to your mom as a figured out problem.  "Mom, sis should be the POA because she has more time / she lives nearby / she knows your banker"...

Guilt is not necessarily a bad thing in certain instances.

good luck,
sunny jo

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RE: Advice Needed for When Your Aging Parent(s) Are Stu... - 7/21/2009 4:30:21 AM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
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quote:

briefly when my dad was in the hospital dying of cancer, and he had a DNR order.
i have worked in hospitals all of my adult life and i hate to tell you this but a DNR (do not resuscitate) is totally useless if the staff does not note it.

Generally it is posted in the patients room, perhaps a certain color wrist band, etc. HEPPA is a pain in the ass on this one, as it cannot be clearly posted (protection of privacy). Suppose the patient stops breathing and the roommates family member runs and grabs the first medical staff member they see, who has no knowledge of the DNR status. In an emergency the adrenalin kicks in and that staff member is not going to stop and read the chart. They are going to do what they are trained to do and begin life saving measures. At this point, it is too late. Once these measures are begun it is against the law (big time!) to stop. The poor patient can end up  with cracked ribs/sternum from the CPR and be on a ventulator until a court order is obtained to get him off.

An Advanced Directive is so very necessary.


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RE: Advice Needed for When Your Aging Parent(s) Are Stu... - 7/21/2009 7:47:27 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Bama, she can appoint both of you. Either both of you have to be there and agree or either of you, whoever is there,  gets to make a decision. Obviously this will only work if you and your sister are in agreement, you don't want to be suing each other for making a decision.

About the DNR, I have vivid memories of screaming at the resident who took it upon himself to cut my mother's pain medication without looking to see that it was prescribed by the hospital's pain management specialist and who then asked me if I wanted him to not resuscitate. I nearly killed him. Because it was written down and he never bothered to check the records of the patients.

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RE: Advice Needed for When Your Aging Parent(s) Are Stu... - 7/21/2009 8:51:36 AM   
pixidustpet


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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Bama, she can appoint both of you. Either both of you have to be there and agree or either of you, whoever is there,  gets to make a decision. Obviously this will only work if you and your sister are in agreement, you don't want to be suing each other for making a decision.

About the DNR, I have vivid memories of screaming at the resident who took it upon himself to cut my mother's pain medication without looking to see that it was prescribed by the hospital's pain management specialist and who then asked me if I wanted him to not resuscitate. I nearly killed him. Because it was written down and he never bothered to check the records of the patients.


i went through that last paragraph nearly word-for-word when fallcon was dying.  he was in a teaching hospital...and every new guy had their own take on what was right.

i got a nurse to tell me when the new ones were going to come in, then then each got a lecture from ME (all fear the short woman!) about how pain meds were NOT to be fooled around with unless they were the pain management doc, and how the chart WOULD be read before they started messing about.

something about a short woman giving them the "mess with me and die" look worked...

but it was heartbreaking to know how often it had to be said.

kitten

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RE: Advice Needed for When Your Aging Parent(s) Are Stu... - 7/21/2009 8:57:01 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		Try to buy her a life and / or disability insurance on your name. If possible, you stand to gain a hefty profit.
 
As for her: vitamin C tablets at each meal. No calcium supplements.

< Message edited by Rule -- 7/21/2009 8:58:22 AM >

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RE: Advice Needed for When Your Aging Parent(s) Are Stu... - 7/21/2009 11:36:56 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		If Jim had not smoked as much as he did... if he did not self medicate as much as he did, he would be alive today.

He was only 55.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Advice Needed for When Your Aging Parent(s) Are Stu... - 7/21/2009 11:45:34 AM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

If Jim had not smoked as much as he did... if he did not self medicate as much as he did, he would be alive today.

He was only 55.

Aww Sweetie...if wishes were horses, beggers would ride.

He was here and he lives on in the hearts of those that loved him.



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RE: Advice Needed for When Your Aging Parent(s) Are Stu... - 7/21/2009 12:06:08 PM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pixidustpet

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Bama, she can appoint both of you. Either both of you have to be there and agree or either of you, whoever is there,  gets to make a decision. Obviously this will only work if you and your sister are in agreement, you don't want to be suing each other for making a decision.

About the DNR, I have vivid memories of screaming at the resident who took it upon himself to cut my mother's pain medication without looking to see that it was prescribed by the hospital's pain management specialist and who then asked me if I wanted him to not resuscitate. I nearly killed him. Because it was written down and he never bothered to check the records of the patients.


happens a lot


< Message edited by sirsholly -- 7/21/2009 12:13:21 PM >

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RE: Advice Needed for When Your Aging Parent(s) Are Stu... - 7/21/2009 12:31:34 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

If Jim had not smoked as much as he did... if he did not self medicate as much as he did, he would be alive today.

He was only 55.

Aww Sweetie...if wishes were horses, beggers would ride.

He was here and he lives on in the hearts of those that loved him.



HUGs and thank you.  I think about him alot.  The smoke- was a reason to not hag out alot.    When I moved to PA 9-14-88, there wasn't really  anyone to ask advice.  My grandfather disowned me, but I don't hate him....it is the way itr was.   So Jim was the guy who could pull strings and teach me how the general valley worked as well as the larger world.

He was never a boyfriend. It was nothing like that.  But close friends.


Getting back to the OP.  I want to emhpasize how important it is with the aging- that you do not lie to them.  Mom called all frantic.. she was sure something happened to me yesderday.   I told her my reasons for not taking any calls that day.  She did not want to hear it.  I told her- that I never want to lie to her.

The same goes with my gram.   Because then if they get to where they do not trust anyone- they know the past of the person.

Now- when I say don't lie- that doesnt mean to get in the face and tell them un-nice things.  But when asked a direct question- there is nothing to gain.   There is a time and place for deep conversation.

With grams mind- I know she thinks what she thinks.  But I wont get confrontational unless she is close to harming herself.

The thing is especially family members can see thru a lie.

So- in the short term- it can be the easy way but in the long term- it is destructive.  and not a good way to be.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Advice Needed for When Your Aging Parent(s) Are Stu... - 7/21/2009 12:40:21 PM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline
quote:

I want to emhpasize how important it is with the aging- that you do not lie to them.
i wish it was that easy. Sometimes you do what you have to, in whatever ways you have to do it just to keep them safe.

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RE: Advice Needed for When Your Aging Parent(s) Are Stu... - 7/21/2009 12:47:21 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

I want to emhpasize how important it is with the aging- that you do not lie to them.
i wish it was that easy. Sometimes you do what you have to, in whatever ways you have to do it just to keep them safe.


When harm will come- then you do what you must do.    The thing is- if the elder decides I cant be trusted then any candor is gone.

Luckily things have not gotten too bad on this end yet.    Gram had been endlessly calling 911.  I did tell my gram when it is appropriate to call 911.  And the "if you abuse 911 they will put you in a home".    
..it worked.

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