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If he stops determining and maintaining the hold, the dynamic is gone and therefore, so is the unconditional aspect.

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Who determines when he stops determining and maintaining his hold?.

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ORIGINAL: SlyStone

Who determines when he stops determining and maintaining his hold?. Because I kind of doubt it is gonna be him. And if it is the slave that makes that determination, then doesn't the dynamic becomes conditional while it is still in existence?

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Does that make sense?

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ORIGINAL: SlyStone


See I think the mistake of those who define a TPE as unconditional is that they create a false expectation for themselves that cannot exist in the real world.

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ORIGINAL: SlyStone

To me no. To you yes.

Let us leave it at that and call it a day.[/font][/color]

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ORIGINAL: barelynangel

People always seem to see unconditional as an ACTIVELY defined concept of actions and doings instead of simply the whole of the relationship that exists unconditionally on his determinations.

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ORIGINAL: ishyB

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ORIGINAL: DemonKia

Given this definition I'm curious as to what would happen if the M, say, had a stroke or accident & ended up in a vegetative coma & the choice was made to keep that person alive thru machines & nursing care. What would you, if you were that person's slave, see as your course of action?

 



Greetings,

I'm assuming you mean what would I do if both my Master and Mistress were in such a state, because if not I would continue the other.

That would depend on the level of devotion I had for said man prior to it happening...
In other words, it would depend on if the memory of him would be enough to compel me to serve him.

Again compare it to love, how much love would be needed to keep you there in such a situation?
Now double that amount and you would probably have the amount of devotion a girl like me would need to have to stick around.

If my devotion ran deep, I would probably keep serving him for a very long time to come -if not till the very end- even if said serving might only be by visiting.
In other areas of my life, my obedience to his will would probably fade away pretty fast on most things (though most likely not all), simple because he would no longer be able to control them things, or even care about them.

If my devotion was not deep, I would probably be out of there pretty fast and go do something else with my life; Most likely find a new man that could compel me.

In both situations, if I would meet another man that could compel me to obey, then I would submit to his will and do what he thought best.

I know this sounds selfish and coldhearted, because well, it is selfish and cold coldhearted, but it just seems to be how I am wired to respond.
Master is fully aware of what my reactions would be in a situation like that, which is exactly why he keeps me as a slave and not something else.
Even if he was not married, I would never be his wife, lover, girlfriend of partner, exactly because he knows I would react like that. He does not have the expectation of me that I would take responsibilities that I am not naturally inclined to take; thus he keeps me as his slave and removes the responsibilities for decisions like that from me.
He wouldn't expect me to suddenly start taking the responsibility for decision like that just because he is no longer around, in fact, quit the opposite. I think he would expect me to go do stupid stuff instead.

I wish you well,

ishy

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What I am seeing is the usual merry-go-round of theoretical arguments for and against TPE.

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ORIGINAL: barelynangel

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Who determines when he stops determining and maintaining his hold?.

Chuckles, oh that's easy SlyStone -- if she CAN leave, she should leave. In otherwords, if the girl has the capability of actually following through on her self-determination she is no longer enslaved or mastered. Once that occurs -- the dynamic no longer exists. A person can HOLD THEMSELVES through their own determination of what being a slave is in a concept of slavery -- but to me that is not a slave but someone who is free making a determination for themselves in how they exist in a Man's life versus the Man doing so.

I know this is really hard for people to understand especially if you have never experienced it, but mastery if a very POWERFUL hold on a girl, and there are many times a girl will say fuck this and head for the door, however, in the end - she just can't leave to do so -- its simply that. She just can't leave and instead she winds up many times begging him to keep her.

I guess what it comes down to is this -- you can't explain to someone what the color purple is if they have never seen it. Its very hard to explain mastery to people who have never experienced it or who have never held someone in same.

angel

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For me the difference between a TPE and a non-TPE is the following:

Non-TPE: I promises to obey you if and when you meet conditions X, Y and Z. Should you no longer meet conditions X, Y and Z then I revoke my promises to obey you because you breached our agreement.

TPE: You compel me to obey you because of X, Y and Z qualities that I see in you that makes me need to be with you. Because you compel me to obey, I have no choice but to obey you until that time that you would no longer compel me to obey.

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I don't know about heart of a slave.. to me it's far easier to define and not so ambiguous as all that. I recognize myself as a slave, because I'm incapable of being free. In other words, I didn't 'become' a slave. I accepted discovery of my inability to be free. That's why I had to be so careful with the situations I put myself in. I learned a very harsh lesson from my first Master.. a lesson learned that did NOT need to be repeated, so I was really careful to keep my walls up and firmly in place because I knew that I'd be a sucker for the right sort of man even if he was the wrong sort of man. I do agree that no Mastery will change that .. one is or is not free but I think most slaves require that Mastery to make the discovery. -- quoted from Bita Truble

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ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Of course by this definition, if someone has left a given master then it wasn't TPE, despite having declared it over and over and over on the boards.  But we are expected to believe them the next time they are in a TPE relationship because, well they say they are in one.